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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#12651 NJB13

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 13:40

Awesome pic Showtime, thanks

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#12652 prty

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 14:40

Alonso in Ferrari video

What a pain that I can't understand italian....... ):


Thanks. He confirms that in Imola 2005 he was indeed running with 9 cylinders.

#12653 HPT

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 15:26

Thanks. He confirms that in Imola 2005 he was indeed running with 9 cylinders.


Wow I never knew that! That makes his defensive drive even more impressive.

#12654 Skinnyguy

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 15:29

Thanks. He confirms that in Imola 2005 he was indeed running with 9 cylinders.


How can that be?? He was still getting away from the Ferrari on acceleration!! That´s amazing.

#12655 Morbus

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 16:05

How can that be?? He was still getting away from the Ferrari on acceleration!! That´s amazing.

He had a lot of beans at lunch and was using some sort of F duct.

Get it? F... duct :p :wave:

#12656 Skinnyguy

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 17:10

He had a lot of beans at lunch and was using some sort of F duct.

Get it? F... duct :p :wave:


:lol:

Maybe, mate. It´s the most sensible explanation we´ll get :rotfl:

Seriously, to anyone that remembers that day, the claim is counter intuitive. He was struggling badly under braking and on the corners, but he was mighty on traction and on straight line speed. Anyone have some info about this? Maybe the full translation?

#12657 ForzaGTR

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 17:34

http://www.formula1....ms1209fe293.jpg


WOW what a pic!!

#12658 YellowHelmet

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 10:30

Ask Massa.

he is involved in collective decision making processes.
so why should we ask him?


#12659 prty

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 10:41

:lol:

Maybe, mate. It´s the most sensible explanation we´ll get :rotfl:

Seriously, to anyone that remembers that day, the claim is counter intuitive. He was struggling badly under braking and on the corners, but he was mighty on traction and on straight line speed. Anyone have some info about this? Maybe the full translation?


He wasn't struggling, it was that the Bridgestone cars suddenly got 2 seconds quicker, because of the conditions.

I imagine that out of slow corners, even with 9 cylinders, traction wasn't engine limited, and the Renault had very good traction. And the straights weren't long enough for Michael to get that back. Besides of course some good defensive driving.


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#12660 YellowHelmet

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 11:02

Are you kidding? Everyone up and down the pitlane couldn't fault Vettel, he was the best driver by miles and won more races/poles than Alonso in his WDC years.

are you joking?

vettel threw away as already pointed out some race wins.
and now you expect everybody to oversee this?
i have never said that vettel hasnt driven very very good last year.
but for me alonsos perfromance in that ferrari and under that circumstances was more impressive.


Alonso may of had a few good races in the Ferrari but you are blind and a true fanboy if you think that Alonso was better than Vettel in 2011.
:rotfl: You are free to think Alonso overall is the better driver, but performance wise last season Alonso got owned by Vettel.

that has nothing to do with being blind.
but as i can see you are blind in realising that not always the world champion is the most impressive driver, even if winning 11 races and having 16 pp!
this may sound for you contradictonary, but it is not. Not in F1.
I hope you do realise that f1 is a material-dependent sport and so drivers in better cars can achieve more easily targets, what drivers in worser cars sometimes even cant achieve if they give their best, because their material doesnt allow them to do that.

saying that alonso just had few good races is a total rejection to look at races as a racing purist.
a racing purist saw last year alonso going for it every lap at every race, which vettel hadnt to do, because his car was superior. and in the races where it was tight for him, he mostly made mistakes.
vettel shined in qualy and in tight races he often made mistakes, which costed him the race win.





Vettel blew the barn doors off Webber, and Alonso got outraced and outqualified by Massa too many times.

vettel vs. webber:
16:3 in races and qualy, podiums: V: 17, W:10

alonso vs. massa
15.4 in qualy and 16:3 in races, podiums: A: 10, M:0

dont know what you wanna say?




#12661 YellowHelmet

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 11:03

I asked Buttoner to merge it with the new one, the one that originally was Alonso in 2012 and renamed as Fernando Alonso Thread, I think it makes more sense to keep discussing in the old thread, we don't need a new topic every season.

I thank both of you  ;) :up:

#12662 TheBunk

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 20:02

http://www.formula1....ms1209fe293.jpg

:love:

#12663 tifosiMac

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 20:04

Donno what's weirder.. that Alonso might join twitter or he's having casual dinner with his ex wife?

Is it impossible for people to be friends with their ex's then?

#12664 tifosiMac

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 20:06

Ah yes, the Sun, ever enhancing the British media's reputation and credentials :drunk:

They are a terrible paper but if anyone outside of the UK uses them as a benchmark example of the British press as a whole, then they can only be described as an idiot really.

#12665 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 20:22

Alonso helmet.


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via Jose Luis by way of 'barin'

#12666 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 20:24

He wasn't struggling, it was that the Bridgestone cars suddenly got 2 seconds quicker, because of the conditions.


He was. Button was quicker on a BAR on the final stage.

I imagine that out of slow corners, even with 9 cylinders, traction wasn't engine limited, and the Renault had very good traction. And the straights weren't long enough for Michael to get that back.


Well once you engage third you´re not traction limited if your car is straighten, and the last chicane is a second gear one. Except the first second after the exit, it´s all about power. And losing 1/10th (a bit more perhaps) of your power leaves you a sitting duck, it´s 90 HP difference!! it´d be something like a car with unlimited KERS versus a car with no KERS at all today. That´s why it doesn´t make sense.

Besides of course some good defensive driving.


Don´t get me wrong, it was a very good drive under VERY high pressure, but Alonso didn´t even need to go offline to defend except once with no dager at all into Piratella.

#12667 RedOne

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 20:39

Is it impossible for people to be friends with their ex's then?


Didn't say it wasn't but dinner seems a bit more than friends but I don't care about what he does privately that's not why I'm a fan of his.

#12668 Nitropower

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 22:08

Imagine Alonso never got divorced or only got divorced to get rid of the masses and the media? And the Tchoumi is a bluff

#12669 hammibal

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:55

vettel vs. webber:
16:3 in races and qualy, podiums: V: 17, W:10

alonso vs. massa
15.4 in qualy and 16:3 in races, podiums: A: 10, M:0

dont know what you wanna say?

How about wins V: 11, W 1

Also i wouldnt be too surprised if most people rate Webber above Massa

#12670 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:02

How about wins V: 11, W 1

Also i wouldnt be too surprised if most people rate Webber above Massa


Wins are a useless comparison between RBR and Ferrari because the Ferrari was not a winning car even combined with the most exceptional driving except under very special circumstances. Or how many wins do you think Vettel would have achieved with this car against, for example, Alonso in the RBR. As for the win ratio between the RBR drivers, it only shows either how much Webber sucked this year or how much Vettel was advantaged by the team, whatever you choose.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 14 February 2012 - 11:03.


#12671 LiJu914

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:36

Wins are a useless comparison between RBR and Ferrari because the Ferrari was not a winning car even combined with the most exceptional driving except under very special circumstances. Or how many wins do you think Vettel would have achieved with this car against, for example, Alonso in the RBR. As for the win ratio between the RBR drivers, it only shows either how much Webber sucked this year or how much Vettel was advantaged by the team, whatever you choose.


You could say the same, about the Alonso/Massa comparison.
I think it´s reasonable to say that Vettel/Alonso did the best job in 2011 of all the "top team-drivers", but imho it´s hard to judge who did the better job because of the technical inequalities.

#12672 Smile17

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 14:01

Imagine Alonlso never got divorced or only got divorced to get rid of the masses and the media? And the Tchoumi is a bluff


Lol. That would not surprise me at all. As always the truth is somewhere in the middle...

Edited by Smile17, 14 February 2012 - 14:03.


#12673 NeilMick

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 19:09



Says it all :)

#12674 olliek88

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 19:21

http://www.formula1....ms1209fe293.jpg


Nice photo, although its interesting that a large portion of F1 photographers pictures seem to be heavily influenced by stuff Darren Heath has done before.

2010 preseason -


Posted Image

Edited by olliek88, 14 February 2012 - 19:21.


#12675 walkindude

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 19:31

Nice photo, although its interesting that a large portion of F1 photographers pictures seem to be heavily influenced by stuff Darren Heath has done before.

2010 preseason -


Posted Image

There is a shot like this in the Senna movie.Haunting.

#12676 puxanando

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 21:18

Alonso first time on track

#12677 tommyhjortasen

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 21:40

Alonso first time on track


I hope he will get another WDC some time down the line.

#12678 Nitropower

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 23:23

Alonso first time on track


Wow that engine roar sounded quite different from 2011's to me.

#12679 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 23:57

Alonso first time on track


Thanks Conny. Hopefully we're looking at the 2012 WDC here... :up: :up:

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#12680 puxanando

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:56

Hopefully we're looking at the 2012 WDC here... :up: :up:

If the new car is good enough sure we will! :)


#12681 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:43

You could say the same, about the Alonso/Massa comparison.
I think it´s reasonable to say that Vettel/Alonso did the best job in 2011 of all the "top team-drivers", but imho it´s hard to judge who did the better job because of the technical inequalities.

why i rate alonsos seasons above vettels is, becaus vettel made in close races, where he really had to fight, to many mistakes. alonso had almost every race a close race, where he had to push to the maximum, with very few mistakes.
and under that circumstances alonsos 2011 season was and is for me one of the greatest, if not the greatest perfomance of a driver in this sport ever.

#12682 kosmos

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 12:12

This videos are new to me, even if they are 4 weeks old, they are from the Formula Santander web.

Very nice and short interview:

Another one.


Edited by kosmos, 16 February 2012 - 12:34.


#12683 puxanando

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 12:26

This videos are new to me, even if the are 4 weeks old, they are from the Formula Santander web.

Very nice and short interview:

Another one.


:up: THX for THIS!

#12684 crespo

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 15:48

why i rate alonsos seasons above vettels is, becaus vettel made in close races, where he really had to fight, to many mistakes. alonso had almost every race a close race, where he had to push to the maximum, with very few mistakes.
and under that circumstances alonsos 2011 season was and is for me one of the greatest, if not the greatest perfomance of a driver in this sport ever.

I'm as much a fan of FA as anyone on this board, but let's not get too carried away now, eh?

#12685 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 15:55

I'm as much a fan of FA as anyone on this board, but let's not get too carried away now, eh?

well its not about being carried away. it is just an analysis of 2011.

#12686 LiJu914

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 16:02

why i rate alonsos seasons above vettels is, becaus vettel made in close races, where he really had to fight, to many mistakes. alonso had almost every race a close race, where he had to push to the maximum, with very few mistakes.
and under that circumstances alonsos 2011 season was and is for me one of the greatest, if not the greatest perfomance of a driver in this sport ever.


Vettel made two noticable mistakes... Canada and Nürburgring. That isn´t "too many" in my book, and i just cost him 8 points in the end. Alonso did even less probably (spontaneously i can only remember his collision in Malaysia), but it´s not like it was a huge difference. But let´s just skip that. I i said: For me it´s too close to call.


For the bolded part: I don´t know how long do you watch F1 but...no way.

Edited by LiJu914, 16 February 2012 - 16:02.


#12687 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 16:04

Vettel made two noticable mistakes... Canada and Nürburgring. That isn´t "too many" in my book, and i just cost him 8 points in the end. Alonso did even less probably (spontaneously i can only remember his collision in Malaysia), but it´s not like it was a huge difference. But let´s just skip that. I i said: For me it´s too close to call.

some call his china gp and his hungarian gp also mistakes.


For the bolded part: I don´t know how long do you watch F1 but...no way.

why not?
because he hasnt won the championship?
or has he done to many mistakes, hasnt he given almost every lap everything with very few mistakes?

tell me please, why not?


#12688 Skinnyguy

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 16:13

tell me please, why not?


No need to go back in time people... SV 2011.

#12689 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 16:17

No need to go back in time people... SV 2011.

in the few close battles vettel had in 2011, he made in 3-4 of them mistakes, which costed him the race win.


#12690 LiJu914

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 16:20

some call his china gp and his hungarian gp also mistakes.


Vettel didn´t make he mistake in china (or is bad pit-stop-strategy a driver´s mistake nowadays?) About Hungary, yeah ran out of track one time. I remember Fernando doing that more than once at that GP.

why not?
because he hasnt won the championship?
or has he done to many mistakes, hasnt he given almost every lap everything with very few mistakes?

tell me please, why not?


Just because Alonso did extremly well that season, it´s automatically the best of any driver in F1 history?

Just one example that spontaneously comes to my mind (as there are some parallels regarding the qualitiy of the car):
Once upon a time there was a driver, who sat in the third best car (at best). He had a former world-champion (became WDC 3 years before) next to him. He outqualified this former WDC 14:2 including one Pole Postion, outscored him 54:7 (10-6-4.. system) including 2 wins, finished 3rd in the WDC compared to his teammate´s 11th place, and even would´ve had a shot at the title, if his car wouldn´t have failed on the way to his 3rd victory in the antepenultimate race.
And btw. this driver will never be considered an all-time great....

Edited by LiJu914, 16 February 2012 - 16:26.


#12691 Skinnyguy

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 16:24

in the few close battles vettel had in 2011, he made in 3-4 of them mistakes, which costed him the race win.


If you can´t see that SV was the man this year by yourself, no one will be able to convince you ever. I won´t even bother to discuss, it´s cristal clear for me. And I don´t even like the finger-boy... but boy, did he drove well.

#12692 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 16:34

Vettel didn´t make he mistake in china (or is bad pit-stop-strategy a driver´s mistake nowadays?) About Hungary, yeah ran out of track one time. I remember Fernando doing that more than once at that GP.

about china: he screwed the start, falling back to third place and so rb had to change strategy!
about hungary: vettel ran wide 4 times




Just because Alonso did extremly well that season, it´s automatically the best of any driver in F1 history?

surely not automatically, but under the given circumstances, i cant remember any driver in the histroy of f1 doing so well and fighting so often against stronger cars as alonso did in 2011 with so few mistakes.

Just one example that spontaneously to my mind (as there are some parallels regarding the qualitiy of the car):
Once upon a time there was a driver, who sat in the third best car (at best). He had a former world-champion (3 years before) next to him. He outqualified this former WDC 14:2 including one Pole Postion, outscored him 54:7 (10-6-4.. system) including 2 wins, finished 3rd in the WDC compared to his teammate´s 11th place, and even would´ve had a shot at the title, if his car wouldn´t have failed on the way to his 3rd victory in the antepenultimate race.
And btw. this driver will never be considered an all-time great....


54:7?
so you mean HHF in 1999 (the year schumacher broke his leg).
that was a marvellous performance and one of the greatest, thats for sure (at least some parts of the season).

Edited by YellowHelmet, 16 February 2012 - 16:42.


#12693 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 16:36

If you can´t see that SV was the man this year by yourself, no one will be able to convince you ever. I won´t even bother to discuss, it´s cristal clear for me. And I don´t even like the finger-boy... but boy, did he drove well.

surely he drove well, especially then when his car was superior.
but in close races he made 3-4 mistakes which costed him 3-4 race wins.


#12694 Skinnyguy

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 16:41

surely he drove well, especially then when his car was superior.
but in close races he made 3-4 mistakes which costed him 3-4 race wins.


He drove well everywhere mate. When his car was superior he won by a country mile, when his car had tough rivals, he won, and in the (few) times where any other car was better, he still beat them sometimes.

Of course he made mistakes, but no one else did less than him, and no one else drove as fast as him. Man of the Year without any doubt. You´re the first one I see arguing that :confused:

#12695 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 16:49

He drove well everywhere mate. When his car was superior he won by a country mile,

wow. :drunk:


when his car had tough rivals, he won,

he threw away 3-4 race wins.


Of course he made mistakes, but no one else did less than him, and no one else drove as fast as him.

surely, alonso did less mistakes, with an inferrior car, and having to race at maximum almost every race and every lap.
whereas vettel had the privilege to "cruise" some races to the win.

Man of the Year without any doubt.

from a racing purist view, it was alonso.

You´re the first one I see arguing that :confused:

i am confused that i am the first person you hear rating alonsos 2011 season over vettels.


#12696 LiJu914

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 17:05

about china: he screwed the start, falling back to third place and so rb had to change strategy!
about hungary: vettel ran wide 4 times
--
surely not automatically, but under the given circumstances, i cant remember any driver in the histroy of f1 doing so well and fighting so often against stronger cars as alonso did in 2011 with so few mistakes.
----
54:7?
so you mean HHF in 1999 (the year schumacher broke his leg).
that was a marvellous performance and one of the greatest, thats for sure (at least some parts of the season).


Oh come on, losing one or two postions at a start is not a crucial mistake. It happens hundreths of times during a season. I also remember Alonso struggling at starts in the very first races...
Hungary: Once again...I saw the race twice and can only remember that Vettel left the track once and i also remember FA doing it more than once.

Your nitpicking about Vettel´s alleged mistakes is becoming quite obsessive now. btw. He also didn´t lose 3-4 race-wins.


About that "best season of any driver ever". It´s quite telling that you didn´t compare much between these two seasons and even if you might want to, after you read this post: Please let´s just end this.
It would only lead to me posting about several driver´s season and why they might haven been better than Alonso´s 2011-season (which as i already said was still phenomal) and you and me arguing about it. So let´s just skip that and agree to disagree, okay? :)

Edited by LiJu914, 16 February 2012 - 17:05.


#12697 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 17:18

Oh come on, losing one or two postions at a start is not a crucial mistake. It happens hundreths of times during a season. I also remember Alonso struggling at starts in the very first races...
Hungary: Once again...I saw the race twice and can only remember that Vettel left the track once and i also remember FA doing it more than once.

about china: maybe it was a small mistake but it costed him the win.
about hungary: 4 times he left the course.



Your nitpicking about Vettel´s alleged mistakes is becoming quite obsessive now. btw. He also didn´t lose 3-4 race-wins.

i am not nitpicking, i am hinting to it, to explain why i rate alonsos season higher.
if you like it or not, they happened and costed him 3-4 race wins.


About that "best season of any driver ever". It´s quite telling that you didn´t compare much between these two seasons and even if you might want to, after you read this post: Please let´s just end this.
It would only lead to me posting about several driver´s season and why they might haven been better than Alonso´s 2011-season (which as i already said was still phenomal) and you and me arguing about it. So let´s just skip that and agree to disagree, okay? :)

why?
I love to discuss it, and i have no problem if we end and/or start with the agreement to disagree.
i am here to debate about some formula1 topics, and for no other reason.

and i am fine with that, that some other ppl think different.
as long as we can discuss it, without insulting each other.






#12698 Skinnyguy

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 17:20

wow. :drunk:

he threw away 3-4 race wins.

surely, alonso did less mistakes, with an inferrior car, and having to race at maximum almost every race and every lap.
whereas vettel had the privilege to "cruise" some races to the win.

from a racing purist view, it was alonso.

i am confused that i am the first person you hear rating alonsos 2011 season over vettels.


You´re either too biased to discuss anything, or hanging on after making an stupid statement. If it´s the first, now I know I can´t discuss anything seriously with you. If it´s the second, trust me, it´ll be easier for you to admit you got it wrong and exagerated than keeping the struggle.

#12699 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 17:25

You´re either too biased to discuss anything, or hanging on after making an stupid statement.

not true.
i made a statement and have also pointed out why i think so.
you havent explained your position,
either do it or dont.

but if you wanna discuss it, then stop playing like a child in saying "you are biased" etc.
you wanna discuss it? let us go in medias res!?

Edited by YellowHelmet, 16 February 2012 - 17:26.


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#12700 ForeverF1

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 17:26

about china: maybe it was a small mistake but it costed him the win.
about hungary: 4 times he left the course.




i am not nitpicking, i am hinting to it, to explain why i rate alonsos season higher.
if you like it or not, they happened and costed him 3-4 race wins.



why?
I love to discuss it, and i have no problem if we end and/or start with the agreement to disagree.
i am here to debate about some formula1 topics, and for no other reason.

and i am fine with that, that some other ppl think different.
as long as we can discuss it, without insulting each other.



This, above all, is the right attitude. On both sides.