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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#12701 Skinnyguy

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 17:37

but if you wanna discuss it...


Not really. I´m off.

Don´t get me wrong, I could discuss all day long about reasonable or interesting topics, like which car was best in 2000. Not about this. Sorry if you feel offended about me saying you´re biased, but that´s how I feel it if you say what you said. It´s not "playing like a child", is how I feel. I feel you need to be biased to keep saying that after watching the season. So, again, if you felt offended, I apologize. Cheers.



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#12702 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 17:41

let us not get to emotional: i dont feel offended with you saying just this, but i feel some kind offended or better say bored if you dont really wanna go into deep and just try to distract from a potential discussion.

i am fine with it, if you dont wanna discuss it.


#12703 Skinnyguy

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 18:01

but i feel some kind offended or better say bored if you dont really wanna go into deep and just try to distract from a potential discussion.


Sorry then. Not trying to distract anyone. Sure you´ll find some others to discuss that, but I´m not willing to go into a race by race analysis when I think there´s no case.

#12704 LiJu914

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 18:10

1.about china: maybe it was a small mistake but it costed him the win.
about hungary: 4 times he left the course.




...
2. if you like it or not, they happened and costed him 3-4 race wins.
...


3.why?
I love to discuss it, and i have no problem if we end and/or start with the agreement to disagree.
i am here to debate about some formula1 topics, and for no other reason.
...


1. Again the start in China is not a mistake, in my book. Imho it´s not possible for every driver on the grid not to lose 1-2 places at the Starts of a season at least once or twice.
About "costing a win": The severity of the "individual failure" (which it imho isn´t) can´t be measured by your starting postion. Whether it happens at the front, the middle or the back of the grid...the "deed" stays the same. Do you think anybody, counted up that Alonso lost a x possible points, because of a some poor starts in the first few races? Or of any other driver?

Hungary: I have the race on my disk, please tell my when it happened, i´ll look it up.

2. It´s not about "liking", i just don´t see it. Unless you elaborated that with the same kind of approach as in the China example. :rolleyes: But then let´s not be so benevolent: Why didn´t Vettel just win all 19 races? I mean he had the best car...  ;)

3. Because i´m not in the mood to dicuss certain examples of other driver´s seasons in the whole history of F1 in comparison to Alonso´s over several pages...

#12705 LiJu914

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 18:11

1.about china: maybe it was a small mistake but it costed him the win.
about hungary: 4 times he left the course.
...
2. if you like it or not, they happened and costed him 3-4 race wins.
...
3.why?
I love to discuss it, and i have no problem if we end and/or start with the agreement to disagree.
i am here to debate about some formula1 topics, and for no other reason.
...


1. Again: The start in China is not a mistake, in my book. Imho it´s not possible for every driver on the grid not to lose 1-2 places at the starts of a whole season at least once or twice.
About "costing a win": The severity of the "individual failure" (which it imho isn´t) can´t be measured by your starting postion. Whether it happens at the front, the middle or the back of the grid...the "deed" stays the same. Do you think anybody, counted up that Alonso lost a x possible points, because of some poor starts in the first few races? Or of any other driver?

Hungary: I have the race on my disk, please tell my when it happened, i´ll look it up.

2. It´s not about "liking", i just don´t see it. Unless you elaborated that with the same kind of approach as in the China example. :rolleyes: But then let´s not be so benevolent: Why didn´t Vettel just win all 19 races? I mean he had the best car...  ;)

3. Because i´m not in the mood to dicuss certain examples of other driver´s seasons in the whole history of F1 in comparison to Alonso´s over several pages...

#12706 MP422

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 18:16

why i rate alonsos seasons above vettels is, becaus vettel made in close races, where he really had to fight, to many mistakes. alonso had almost every race a close race, where he had to push to the maximum, with very few mistakes.
and under that circumstances alonsos 2011 season was and is for me one of the greatest, if not the greatest perfomance of a driver in this sport ever.



1 Victory (after overblowing reg change) makes this past season one of the greatest performance of a driver in this great sport ??? Your entitled to your views but i disagree.


#12707 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 18:31

1 Victory (after overblowing reg change) makes this past season one of the greatest performance of a driver in this great sport ??? Your entitled to your views but i disagree.

i have no problem with that.

but in formula 1 winning a race doesnt mean that the driver who won made the best performance (in the sense going near 100% of the cars and his own potential without making mistakes.)

i think it is important to worship great performances in formula1, even if in the eyes of casuals this great performance happened anonymously (coz this performance was done by a driver who hasnt won).

for me not always the winner is the best in f1, coz f1 is not an material independent sport.

e.g. as LiJu914 pointed rightly out, the most impressive driver of 1999 was HHF, without winning the WDC.

#12708 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 18:38

1. Again the start in China is not a mistake, in my book. Imho it´s not possible for every driver on the grid not to lose 1-2 places at the Starts of a season at least once or twice.
About "costing a win": The severity of the "individual failure" (which it imho isn´t) can´t be measured by your starting postion. Whether it happens at the front, the middle or the back of the grid...the "deed" stays the same. Do you think anybody, counted up that Alonso lost a x possible points, because of a some poor starts in the first few races? Or of any other driver?

a start can be a mistake, sometimes it doesnt effect the outcome very much, sometimes it does


Hungary: I have the race on my disk, please tell my when it happened, i´ll look it up.

even in youtube you can find it, you dont have to watch the whole race. (at least last week it was still online)

2. It´s not about "liking", i just don´t see it. Unless you elaborated that with the same kind of approach as in the China example. :rolleyes:

i already did it, in this thread.

But then let´s not be so benevolent: Why didn´t Vettel just win all 19 races? I mean he had the best car... ;)

because in some races he made mistakes in others his car was not the fastest, in one his team screwed him in the pit, in the last he had to forfeit his place to webber ;)

3. Because i´m not in the mood to dicuss certain examples of other driver´s seasons in the whole history of F1 in comparison to Alonso´s over several pages...

ok, when you are, let me know ;)

Edited by YellowHelmet, 16 February 2012 - 18:40.


#12709 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 18:38

1 Victory (after overblowing reg change) makes this past season one of the greatest performance of a driver in this great sport ??? Your entitled to your views but i disagree.


The man consistently put the 5th best car on track ahead of the 4th & 5th cars. That would be why it was such a great performance. We were always behind the RB and usually 3 tenths behind MaCa. Yet Alonso managed to put the car on the podium, time and again in an inferior car. The one race we were "supposed" to win, we did. Had he not won at Silverstone the critics would've blasted Ferrari, for the reg changes yet still not winning. However people still try to diminish the win, when it would be a huge talking point if he hadn't.

I'm not saying he had a better season the Vettel. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. I will say nobody other than Vettel had a better season taken in context with the equipment they were driving.

#12710 MP422

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 20:09

I agree Alonso drove very well in 2011 but he didn't have a year like 2010. He put the 3rd best car to 4th place ahead of one mclaren.

#12711 nbhb

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 20:09

a start can be a mistake, sometimes it doesnt effect the outcome very much, sometimes it does


If we talking about "starts mistakes" as you called them, I have a big list for Alonso too, starting with the first race of 2011. I'm sorry but this kind of "mistakes" are not mistakes for 99% of the F1 fans.

even in youtube you can find it, you dont have to watch the whole race. (at least last week it was still online)

You're right about Vettel, he has more than 1 mistake(live timing) but as an Alonso/Ferrari fan, I'm ashamed about the number of offroads Alonso made in that race. So speaking about Vettel's is a little bit weird....


I think @LiJu914 was very fair with Alonso this time and your "the greatest ever" is a little bit too much. And please don't accuse me that I have something with Fernando... You know I don't.

#12712 nbhb

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 20:22

The man consistently put the 5th best car on track ahead of the 4th & 5th cars. That would be why it was such a great performance. We were always behind the RB and usually 3 tenths behind MaCa. Yet Alonso managed to put the car on the podium, time and again in an inferior car. The one race we were "supposed" to win, we did. Had he not won at Silverstone the critics would've blasted Ferrari, for the reg changes yet still not winning. However people still try to diminish the win, when it would be a huge talking point if he hadn't.


The most impressive thing was that he was so close to 2nd place man, not only having a slower car, but having those big issues with the hard tyres. So many points lost because of this, all of them gained by his opponents. Without those issues he would have cruise pass to 2nd.

I'm not saying he had a better season the Vettel. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn't. I will say nobody other than Vettel had a better season taken in context with the equipment they were driving.

Agree...

Edited by nbhb, 16 February 2012 - 20:23.


#12713 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 20:29

If we talking about "starts mistakes" as you called them, I have a big list for Alonso too, starting with the first race of 2011. I'm sorry but this kind of "mistakes" are not mistakes for 99% of the F1 fans.

it is not a mistake losing 1 place, but he almost lost 3 places, which forced him to change the strategy, and as rbr said he made a mistake there.

You're right about Vettel, he has more than 1 mistake(live timing) but as an Alonso/Ferrari fan, I'm ashamed about the number of offroads Alonso made in that race. So speaking about Vettel's is a little bit weird....

vettel lost the race win through it, alonso still managed to stay third.
i hope you understand what my point is.

and your "the greatest ever" is a little bit too much.

i called the 2011 season of alonso the greatest ever.
for you to much: okay
for me not: okay?




#12714 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 20:30

The most impressive thing was that he was so close to 2nd place man, not only having a slower car, but having those big issues with the hard tyres.

you are very close to realising it man  ;)


#12715 YellowHelmet

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 20:31

I agree Alonso drove very well in 2011 but he didn't have a year like 2010. He put the 3rd best car to 4th place ahead of one mclaren.

in 2010, alonso made some early mistakes,
but in 2011, he almost drove it to perfection, with the given material.

#12716 HPT

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:11

Alonso's 2011 is not the best ever. In my opinion it's not even his best. It's sometimes very hard to judge when the car is all over the show but for me his 2006 season is still his best. He made almost zero mistakes that year, soaked up immense pressure from Ferrari, the FIA and those created by his own paranoia. He lost a win in China due to tire mistake, but other than that he was superb all year round.

#12717 Konsta

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:59

i have no problem with that.

but in formula 1 winning a race doesnt mean that the driver who won made the best performance (in the sense going near 100% of the cars and his own potential without making mistakes.)

i think it is important to worship great performances in formula1, even if in the eyes of casuals this great performance happened anonymously (coz this performance was done by a driver who hasnt won).

for me not always the winner is the best in f1, coz f1 is not an material independent sport.

e.g. as LiJu914 pointed rightly out, the most impressive driver of 1999 was HHF, without winning the WDC.


So by those standards Kimi was the driver of the year in 2009?


#12718 nbhb

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 11:22

it is not a mistake losing 1 place, but he almost lost 3 places, which forced him to change the strategy, and as rbr said he made a mistake there.

We agree that we desagree.

vettel lost the race win through it, alonso still managed to stay third.
i hope you understand what my point is.

Alonso lost the race as well, he could have won the race without his offroads. Enough said.


i called the 2011 season of alonso the greatest ever.
for you to much: okay
for me not: okay?


Whatever...


#12719 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:13

So by those standards Kimi was the driver of the year in 2009?

surely not, non of the drivers really was constantly brilliant in 2009.

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#12720 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:16

Alonso lost the race as well, he could have won the race without his offroads. Enough said.

unfortunately not. the ferrari was not fast enough.
maybe he would have been without it 10 sec. more in front but not 20 sec. !

#12721 freya

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:16

Alonso had an OK season in 2011. Probably his 5th best season.

#12722 Watkins74

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:18

Alonso had an OK season in 2011. Probably his 5th best season.

Just for my amusement. What drivers would you say did better than "OK" in 2011?

#12723 freya

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:20

Just for my amusement. What drivers would you say did better than "OK" in 2011?


Vettel, Button and Sutil. There might be more, didn't pay attention to everyone.

Don't know why this has anything to do with your amusement though. Alonso had an ok season. Not like he was the driver under pressure entire year to do a lot of mistakes. Not fighting for the championship + crappy team mate = most relaxed environment for a F1 driver.

#12724 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:24

Alonso's 2011 is not the best ever. In my opinion it's not even his best. It's sometimes very hard to judge when the car is all over the show but for me his 2006 season is still his best. He made almost zero mistakes that year, soaked up immense pressure from Ferrari, the FIA and those created by his own paranoia. He lost a win in China due to tire mistake, but other than that he was superb all year round.

why i count his 2011 season higher than any other season is because in 2006 he was sitting in a sporidically fastest car with the incentive of fighting for the WDC. to motivate oneself in such conditions is much easier + to drive on the limit or near to it is easier, coz the car is more benevolent.

and all of this he hasnt got in 2011 and still he drove it almost to perfection although just fighting with inferrior material for 2 or 3 place in championship.
for some this may be not enough to count the 2011 season of alonso among the greatest, i am fine with it.
but for me, looking retrospectively at it, i will always remember this season as somekind of a character test, where Alonso even outshined the wdc of 2011 who won 11 races and drove to 16 pp.

#12725 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:25

Don't know why this has anything to do with your amusement though. Alonso had an ok season. Not like he was the driver under pressure entire year to do a lot of mistakes. Not fighting for the championship + crappy team mate = most relaxed environment for a F1 driver.

it could have been so,
but alonso saw it in a different way,
and it was as already said somekind of a character test, where alonso outshined with his performance even the record setting champion of 2011.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 17 February 2012 - 14:26.


#12726 freya

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:27

it could have been so,
but alonso saw it in a different way,
and it was as already said somekind of a character test, where alonso outshined with his performance even the record setting champion of 2011.


That all only happens in your head. Alonso didn't outshine that "record setting champion" dude outside of your world.

That being said, I have learned a long time ago to not discuss anything with you. So let's just end it right here.

#12727 mursuka80

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:28

it could have been so,
but alonso saw it in a different way,

and it was as already said somekind of a character test, where alonso outshined with his performance even the record setting champion of 2011.


How do you know?

#12728 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:30

That all only happens in your head. Alonso didn't outshine that "record setting champion" dude outside of your world.

surely not, a lot of people from f1 have complimented alonsos achievements in 2011, especially under the given circumstances.

That being said, I have learned a long time ago to not discuss anything with you. So let's just end it right here.

and i dont even know who you are, till now. but as you anyway dont wanna discuss anything with me, we both gonna profit from it  ;)

#12729 YellowHelmet

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 14:31

How do you know?

his approach showed it and his results showed it.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 17 February 2012 - 14:32.


#12730 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 00:45

GREAT new video---> http://www.youtube.c...p;v=ydYpl-eFnDY

#12731 Ferrari2183

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:57

Alonso had an OK season in 2011. Probably his 5th best season.

Hold on... We have gone from one extreme to the other now.

Alonso's season, in my opinion, was second only to Vettel but it was mighty close between the two for driver of the year. Throw Button in the mix too.

Alonso scored a win and 10 podiums in a car that really had no budiness being there and nearly finished runner up to Vettel. How is that only "OK" in your book? I would say a lot of drivers had "OK" seasons but Alonso is not one of them. He was outstanding from start to finish.

#12732 puxanando

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:28

GREAT new video---> http://www.youtube.c...p;v=ydYpl-eFnDY

:love: GREAT Thank you!

#12733 kryziuotis

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:36

Alonso had an OK season in 2011. Probably his 5th best season.

You can really know that the driver is doing great when even the trollers and haters have to resort to such mild statements as "he had ok season, nothing special" :lol:

#12734 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:38

Not fighting for the championship + crappy team mate = most relaxed environment for a F1 driver.


I think that would rather be called most relaxed environment for a fan.

For a racing driver not being able to fight for victories and championship is probably not the least relaxed environment at all.

#12735 kosmos

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:46

Fernando is training in the Alps according to some Spanish journalist.

#12736 YellowHelmet

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:00

Hold on... We have gone from one extreme to the other now.


It would be nice to elaborate why you dont count Alonsos 2011 season as one of the greatest.
What driver(s) in what seasons has/ve done a more impressive performance, that you are unwilling to even think of alonsos 2011 season as one of the greatest accomplishments in this sport (under given circumstances)?

Just saying that you dont think so, is not really a well thought explanation.
It is maybe in this forum a conformistic position but to rule it out without really explaining it, is not really a position of someone who very often tries to be objective.

i am not asking for a vanguard position of yourself, but surely not for a conformistic.
and if you wanna argue against a vanguard position of me, then do it with more effort, than you have done till now.

nothing personal, i am just used to debate about things with going more into deep, than just having discussions, where people rule something out without arguing it.

and i am aware that my position may be extreme, but extreme is not per se wrong or better say it is not "not god enough" to have a conversation about it.
and i am also aware that there are enough arguments to see it different, but let us debate about them and not just rule an opinion out.

conformism in a bulletin board :down:
discussions about even vangaurd/not (yet) very well established positions :up:


#12737 freya

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:06

Hold on... We have gone from one extreme to the other now.

Alonso's season, in my opinion, was second only to Vettel but it was mighty close between the two for driver of the year. Throw Button in the mix too.

Alonso scored a win and 10 podiums in a car that really had no budiness being there and nearly finished runner up to Vettel. How is that only "OK" in your book? I would say a lot of drivers had "OK" seasons but Alonso is not one of them. He was outstanding from start to finish.


Are we going to choose to go round and round on this then? Alonso had an ok season. He wasn't driving a shity car. His car was 3rd fastest, on few occasions 2nd fastest and even fastest. There were 2 drivers that underperformed heavily in the other 2 cars faster than his, one being hamilton and the other being webber. It is funny how biased fan's eyes are. You either bash hamilton and webber for under-performing, or you prize alonso for being the greatest or whatever, can't have it both ways. Also as I said, alonso had no pressure whatsoever last season, he could just go out and drive.

PS: I probably should mention that I do mean OK in a positive way.

Edited by freya, 18 February 2012 - 10:36.


#12738 Konsta

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:11

surely not, non of the drivers really was constantly brilliant in 2009.


Standards, I present your double :)

Kimi won in Spa even though the car was not very good. Fernando won in S´stone because RBR shot themselves in the foot.

#12739 YellowHelmet

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 10:13

Standards, I present your double :)

Kimi won in Spa even though the car was not very good. Fernando won in S´stone because RBR shot themselves in the foot.

we are talking about being constantly brilliant over a season not one race.

looking at it just at race from race.
Hamilton was brilliant in 5-6 races in 2011.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 18 February 2012 - 10:16.


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#12740 Konsta

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:07

we are talking about being constantly brilliant over a season not one race.

looking at it just at race from race.
Hamilton was brilliant in 5-6 races in 2011.


I know that. What bugs me a lot is the fact that Kimi was (has been) bashed for his alleged lack of ability to help develop and then setup the car but when Fernando had to struggle with his car, the same all of a sudden turned non-existent or at least something the driver has little say. Those are the double standards I referred to.

Domenicali had little interest to listen to Kimi and the results were what they were. Kimi got all the bad rap from lack of wins. Fernando seems somehow untouchable - he cannot apparently be critizised for anything.

#12741 puxanando

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:19

I know that. What bugs me a lot is the fact that Kimi was (has been) bashed for his alleged lack of ability to help develop and then setup the car but when Fernando had to struggle with his car, the same all of a sudden turned non-existent or at least something the driver has little say. Those are the double standards I referred to.

Domenicali had little interest to listen to Kimi and the results were what they were. Kimi got all the bad rap from lack of wins. Fernando seems somehow untouchable - he cannot apparently be critizised for anything.


I think you can't know ALL THIS! Its fact that Kimis communication with the mecanics was very poor. And if Alonso is respect in this form its for something!
And please :rolleyes: don't start with the "Santander-Story"!


#12742 Ferrari2183

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:19

Are we going to choose to go round and round on this then? Alonso had an ok season. He wasn't driving a shity car. His car was 3rd fastest, on few occasions 2nd fastest and even fastest. There were 2 drivers that underperformed heavily in the other 2 cars faster than his, one being hamilton and the other being webber. It is funny how biased fan's eyes are. You either bash hamilton and webber for under-performing, or you prize alonso for being the greatest or whatever, can't have it both ways. Also as I said, alonso had no pressure whatsoever last season, he could just go out and drive.

PS: I probably should mention that I do mean OK in a positive way.

In the grand scheme of things he was driving a shitty car. And what does the other underperforming drivers have to do with Alonso's performances in the Ferrari? If we are going to raise arguments such as these then Button's season which you rate so highly is "OK" because both Webber and Hamilton underperformed, is it not?

I can tell you that Alonso, on many occasion got himself ahead of his rivals by outdriving them only for him to fall back when the harder compound was used. This especially happened many a time with Button.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 18 February 2012 - 11:20.


#12743 Konsta

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:27

I think you can't know ALL THIS! Its fact that Kimis communication with the mecanics was very poor. And if Alonso is respect in this form its for something!
And please :rolleyes: don't start with the "Santander-Story"!


QUOTE
2009 -- Chris Dyer :
- Kimi gives a very specific description of the way the car behaves and he reacts very sharply to the changes we make to the car. You can't ask for more, Dyer said to MTV3.


QUOTE
2008 -- Nick Tombazis
- "Working with Kimi is easy. Kimi speaks a little but everything he says is important. The whole team appreciates Kimi's contribution when it comes to testing. Kimi is a superfast, humble and harmless guy".

Of course you know better than those at Ferrari who actually worked with him :rolleyes:

#12744 YellowHelmet

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:33

Dont know what Kimi has to do here.
I have always admired Kimi and will do in future too.

I dont know whether Kimi is a hard worker as Alonso is, but the impression that is presented by the media is that Kimi can be as constructive as Alonso is (as pointed out in your last post), the only difference: Alonso is doing it constantly, whereas Kimi has his up and downs.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 18 February 2012 - 11:35.


#12745 Konsta

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:37

Dont know what Kimi has to do here.
I have always admired Kimi and will do in future too.

I dont know whether Kimi is a hard worker as Alonso is, but the impression that is presented by the media is that Kimi can be as constructive as Alonso is, the only difference Alonso is doing it constantly, whereas Kimi has his up and downs.


Thank you for your balanced reply.
If you read Puxanando´s reply above, the perception of Kimi is somewhat odd amongst FA´s fandom. I have never read anything about Kimi´s ups and downs however.

#12746 YellowHelmet

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:40

Thank you for your balanced reply.
If you read Puxanando´s reply above, the perception of Kimi is somewhat odd amongst FA´s fandom. I have never read anything about Kimi´s ups and downs however.

with ups and downs i mean, the readiness to spend as much time with the team and doing it in a contructive way.
i may be wrong in that sense, but that is the impression that is presented by the media.

#12747 kosmos

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:40

Fernando seems somehow untouchable - he cannot apparently be critizised for anything.


Do you think there is any reason for Ferrari to critizice him based on what he has done in those 2 years and the car the team has provided?.


#12748 Konsta

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:44

Do you think there is any reason for Ferrari to critizice him based on what he has done in those 2 years and the car the team has provided?.

No.
What I meant that Kimi was fair game when it came to not getting the car to win races but FA seems to be above that criticism :|

Kimi got nothing but praise from Ferrari either. Domenicali´s comments are worthless however. He is pathetic weasel who has achieved nothing - sour grapes.

#12749 freya

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:45

In the grand scheme of things he was driving a shitty car. And what does the other underperforming drivers have to do with Alonso's performances in the Ferrari? If we are going to raise arguments such as these then Button's season which you rate so highly is "OK" because both Webber and Hamilton underperformed, is it not?

I can tell you that Alonso, on many occasion got himself ahead of his rivals by outdriving them only for him to fall back when the harder compound was used. This especially happened many a time with Button.


It is relevant because you mentioned his results. It is funny how you say alonso outdrived his rivals though. Based on what? Who says ferrari wasn't simply a good car on softer compounds? Fact remains though that alonso got 4th in WDC thus only could beat hamilton who had a terrible season. That's actually where the overall 3rd fastest car that was 2nd fastest or fastest on occasions allows a good driver to be. 2011 was alonso's 5th best season in F1 in my eyes, after 2005, 2006, 2010 and 2007, in that order.

Anyhow I am gonna refuse to get dragged into an endless debate over fan's "my driver is awesome", my mistake for even say anything frankly.

#12750 cardin

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:51

it could have been so,
but alonso saw it in a different way,
and it was as already said somekind of a character test, where alonso outshined with his performance even the record setting champion of 2011.



Dont know what Kimi has to do here.
I have always admired Kimi and will do in future too.

I dont know whether Kimi is a hard worker as Alonso is, but the impression that is presented by the media is that Kimi can be as constructive as Alonso is (as pointed out in your last post), the only difference: Alonso is doing it constantly, whereas Kimi has his up and downs.


I see. You are not only an insider at Alonso's head but at Ferrari too. That's impressive.