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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#13001 garoidb

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 00:49

Alonso got very annoyed at Fisichella a few times when he was leading the race, he asked to be given the lead of the race. Then there's Hockenheim with Massa with repeated 'I'm faster than Felipe' messages.

Alonso isn't the only one who does this but he's had more issues than Hamilton has with teammates (maybe because of the greater sample).


But fewer issues with Massa!

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#13002 garoidb

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 00:52

He beat Alonso in the same car, and in the season standings overall...? and it obviously did, cos Trulli was sacked, now why would a driver that is leading points for his team and beating his teammate be sacked mid season? Strange, is it a coincidence that the guy who sacked him was his teammates manager?


Trulli was good, certainly better than Fisichella. What is your point? Do you think Trulli would have delivered the 05 and 06 world championships?

#13003 ashnathan

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 00:58

Trulli was good, certainly better than Fisichella. What is your point? Do you think Trulli would have delivered the 05 and 06 world championships?

There's no reason to think otherwise, he was in his career best form in 2004/5, 2006 is hard to read as the car wasn't very good. But we can't really speculate because it never happened, but in my opinion, team orders aside, 2005 could very well have been different had Trulli been there with no team orders, if that was the case, id say Kimi would have won the title regardless of his technical mishaps due to inter team rivalry at Renault taking points off each other.

#13004 hammibal

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:03

I wonder how long Alonso will tolerate Domenicalis incapacity to lead a big F1 team, and just offer his services to another team, even if that will lead to a pay cut. Im sure that 90 million dollar he now made at Ferrari sis more than enough for the rest of his life.

Alonso would have to buy out of his contract i would think

If you step back from the fanboy view for a second, what's left is:

- Alonso having serious teammate related troubles once in his career
- Hamilton having serious teammate related troubles once in his career

- in all other seasons, both drivers didn't have any teammate trouble worth mentioning (which obviously in Alonsos case is quite a larger sample)

which should at least make one think about 2007 not being so much about the drivers personalities, but about other surrounding circumstances.

Part of the problem still lay with Alonso, he prevented Lewis from attending an early season 4 day test in Barcelona and had Pedro testing alongside him instead

Jarno Trulli in 2004? I believe he won the Monaco Grand Prix did he not? lol.

It didnt do him much good though he got sacked not long after



#13005 hammibal

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:08

But fewer issues with Massa!

Massa knows his place now

#13006 HPT

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:23

There's no reason to think otherwise, he was in his career best form in 2004/5, 2006 is hard to read as the car wasn't very good. But we can't really speculate because it never happened, but in my opinion, team orders aside, 2005 could very well have been different had Trulli been there with no team orders, if that was the case, id say Kimi would have won the title regardless of his technical mishaps due to inter team rivalry at Renault taking points off each other.


If you believe that Kimi could have won the 05 title due to Alonso and Trulli taking points of each other then regardless of what is said, Flavio absolutely made the right decision. Flavio's actions led to the team winning both titles in consecutive years. The decision to fire Trulli must have been vindicated by that.

#13007 walkindude

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:57

There's no reason to think otherwise, he was in his career best form in 2004/5, 2006 is hard to read as the car wasn't very good. But we can't really speculate because it never happened, but in my opinion, team orders aside, 2005 could very well have been different had Trulli been there with no team orders, if that was the case, id say Kimi would have won the title regardless of his technical mishaps due to inter team rivalry at Renault taking points off each other.

Or maybe Kimi would've been third.It's ifs and buts.The fact is that Flavio led the team to consecutive WDC and WCC titles.If firing trulli was a contributing factor,then it was the right decision.If not,then it doesnt matter.

#13008 puxanando

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:46

Peter Windsor says Ferrari has lots of Downforce and he still thinks Alonso will win WDC!!! :up:

#13009 Bren

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 08:02

If I asked Peter Windsor the time, I would still need to look at my watch :)
it would be wonderful if true.

I watched his Spanish GP 2011 qualifying again this morning. What a beautiful thing that was. When he got out of the car and jumped onto Webber, he looked like he had won the race!
Stella's radio was wonderful too.

I want many of those moments this year!

#13010 davegp3

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 08:56

Peter Windsor says Ferrari has lots of Downforce and he still thinks Alonso will win WDC!!! :up:


Well Peter Winsdor, that says it all :rolleyes:

#13011 W03

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:01

He beat Alonso in the same car, and in the season standings overall...? and it obviously did, cos Trulli was sacked, now why would a driver that is leading points for his team and beating his teammate be sacked mid season? Strange, is it a coincidence that the guy who sacked him was his teammates manager?


Its not strange if you bothered to read why he was sacked. It was because of a contract dispute with flavio and team misconduct, by being very critical publically. He deserved it.

#13012 YellowHelmet

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:06

Lol. I'm loving the incredible lengths some people in here go to just to marginalize and justify Alonsos involvement. :lol: Unbelievable.

the opposite is not needed either.
he played a support role in thise case, not more not less.
BUT
he was the one who decided to go away from this criminal milieu, coz it doesnt fit him.

Dear God in heaven. Fiction can be fun!
Hardly anyone was more involved than Mosley.


I think we mean different things with the word being involved!
Those persons who have been part of the spy gate, they were involved.
all other persons have been 3rd parties, who have get their informations not through their involvment but through being informed by some persons who were involved.

but as already said, there is a thread for this specific topic.

This is the Fernando Alonso thread.



#13013 YellowHelmet

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:09

He beat Alonso in the same car, and in the season standings overall...? and it obviously did, cos Trulli was sacked, now why would a driver that is leading points for his team and beating his teammate be sacked mid season? Strange, is it a coincidence that the guy who sacked him was his teammates manager?

1. your interpretation: to not let the "second placed" driver to fight till the end and under circumstances even gain the first position.
2. possible interpretation: Trulli had a contract with Toyota, which was rumoured already about april/may 2004 and was trying to get out of contract, as long as he was leading alonso, to have something in his palmares.

#13014 YellowHelmet

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 09:10

Peter Windsor says Ferrari has lots of Downforce and he still thinks Alonso will win WDC!!! :up:

Dont regard him that much, but i hope this time he is right!

#13015 ghost

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 13:05

Fernando in Asturia today
https://twitter.com/#!/Edo_osteo/status...8198785/photo/1

#13016 LiJu914

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 13:21

Yes, and very convincingly. It did not cause problems for Alonso though.


I dunno, whether you mean Trulli didn´t gave him any trouble or that Alonso didn´t cause any friction in the team.

Regarding the first point, the results were this until Trulli was fired:
Trulli/Alonso:
Qualifying 8:7
Poles 2:1
Points 46:45
Wins 1:0
Scorecard when both finished the race 4:4

So saying nobody ever matched Alonso except 2007 is definitely wrong. But i don´t remember Alonso complaining in 2004 and even though Briatore fired Trulli (for whatever reason), it doesn´t necessarily mean Alonso had any part in that.

Edited by LiJu914, 09 March 2012 - 13:31.


#13017 prty

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 16:19

I dunno, whether you mean Trulli didn´t gave him any trouble or that Alonso didn´t cause any friction in the team.

Regarding the first point, the results were this until Trulli was fired:
Trulli/Alonso:
Qualifying 8:7
Poles 2:1
Points 46:45
Wins 1:0
Scorecard when both finished the race 4:4

So saying nobody ever matched Alonso except 2007 is definitely wrong. But i don´t remember Alonso complaining in 2004 and even though Briatore fired Trulli (for whatever reason), it doesn´t necessarily mean Alonso had any part in that.


Can you add to those stats, mechanical DNFs, and in which position they were running when they happened? Thanks ;)


#13018 Watkins74

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 16:30

Dont regard him that much, but i hope this time he is right!

Not really a fan of Windsor either. I will give him this though, he sure has contacts inside the sport.

I hope he is right for a change.

#13019 zyphro

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 16:30

This is the Fernando Alonso Fan Bois thread only.


Fixed for you :wave: .

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#13020 garoidb

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 17:38

I dunno, whether you mean Trulli didn´t gave him any trouble or that Alonso didn´t cause any friction in the team.


This. As far as I know, Trulli and Alonso remained on friendly terms. It doesn't seem to have been a big deal.

Regarding the first point, the results were this until Trulli was fired:
Trulli/Alonso:
Qualifying 8:7
Poles 2:1
Points 46:45
Wins 1:0
Scorecard when both finished the race 4:4

So saying nobody ever matched Alonso except 2007 is definitely wrong. But i don´t remember Alonso complaining in 2004 and even though Briatore fired Trulli (for whatever reason), it doesn´t necessarily mean Alonso had any part in that.


I never said that - straw man. As it happens, Vettel is the only one of the top drivers not to have been beaten by a team-mate over a season, but it will happen to him some day also. By the way, they were team-mates in 2003 also. What were the stats for that?

#13021 Jejking

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 17:56

Peter Windsor says Ferrari has lots of Downforce and he still thinks Alonso will win WDC!!! :up:

Obviously an overdose of red and pink paint on your glasses.

#13022 LiJu914

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 19:02

1. I never said that - straw man. As it happens, Vettel is the only one of the top drivers not to have been beaten by a team-mate over a season, but it will happen to him some day also.
2. By the way, they were team-mates in 2003 also. What were the stats for that?

1. In this (click) post it appeared to me as if you were backing as65p´s argument, that´s why i added 2004. If that´s not the case..well then forget it.

2. Why do i need to present them? My point was that 2007 was not the only season a teammate came pretty close to FA.

Edited by LiJu914, 09 March 2012 - 19:03.


#13023 garoidb

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 19:35

I said:

Yes, the "one bad season" line employed in defence of Lewis for 2011 does throw up this question. If one driver is allowed an off season (or part-season), then maybe others are as well.


Alonso had a bad patch in the 2007 season, notably at Canada and the US, with France hard to call. Hence anyone who excuses Lewis his 2011 bad patch but regards 2007 as the definitive level for Alonso would not be consistent (not saying this is your argument, I see that it is not, but others do).

But you responded as if I had made a completely different point, one that I did not at any stage make.

ISo saying nobody ever matched Alonso except 2007 is definitely wrong. But i don´t remember Alonso complaining in 2004 and even though Briatore fired Trulli (for whatever reason), it doesn´t necessarily mean Alonso had any part in that.


I'm not picking an argument, but you have jumped to conclusions there.

2. Why do i need to present them? My point was that 2007 was not the only season a teammate came pretty close to FA.


It would have been more balanced to also show that Alonso came out ahead in 2003.

#13024 LiJu914

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 20:01

1. But you responded as if I had made a completely different point, one that I did not at any stage make.
I'm not picking an argument, but you have jumped to conclusions there.

2. It would have been more balanced to also show that Alonso came out ahead in 2003.


1. Alright.
2. Well i said 2007+2004 were cases, in which FA and his respective teammate were on a very similar level - imho that implies that this is not the case for every other season. So i don´t think, i should´ve listed every other season in Alonso´s career. ;)

Edited by LiJu914, 09 March 2012 - 20:02.


#13025 Tifosi4ever

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 20:14

This. As far as I know, Trulli and Alonso remained on friendly terms. It doesn't seem to have been a big deal.



I never said that - straw man. As it happens, Vettel is the only one of the top drivers not to have been beaten by a team-mate over a season, but it will happen to him some day also. By the way, they were team-mates in 2003 also. What were the stats for that?


Jarno and Fernando have been friends all along. Same goes with Fisi. There are few friendships in F1, but Fernando is very good friends with Jarno, Fisi, Robert, and Mark. Just as Lewis is very good friends with Adrian. The animosity between Lewis and Fernando started with Lewis going against team sharing where they alternate optimum strategy. Fernando retaliated with holding up Lewis in the pits. IMHO, both can be excused as Lewis was a rookie with no expectations, so drove the best season of his life, and decided to screw fairness in his own pursuit, and Fernando was a double wdc who was quite rightly outraged at his team mate ignoring rules that he adhered to.

Despite being beaten by 1 point in their time together in 2004, Fernando got annoyed with himself. He was still good mates with Jarno. Lewis was blown away by Jenson, but despite this, he still seems to be mates with Jenson.



#13026 garoidb

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 20:37

Jarno and Fernando have been friends all along. Same goes with Fisi. There are few friendships in F1, but Fernando is very good friends with Jarno, Fisi, Robert, and Mark. Just as Lewis is very good friends with Adrian. The animosity between Lewis and Fernando started with Lewis going against team sharing where they alternate optimum strategy. Fernando retaliated with holding up Lewis in the pits. IMHO, both can be excused as Lewis was a rookie with no expectations, so drove the best season of his life, and decided to screw fairness in his own pursuit, and Fernando was a double wdc who was quite rightly outraged at his team mate ignoring rules that he adhered to.


That is the main difference between the Trulli and Hamilton cases. Hamilton had seen a 14 point championship lead closed to 2 points over two races and now it was Alonso's turn to have an extra lap in qualifying. It was ultimately a McLaren management issue because he knew that he could get away with it (and Alonso knew that too).

Despite being beaten by 1 point in their time together in 2004, Fernando got annoyed with himself. He was still good mates with Jarno. Lewis was blown away by Jenson, but despite this, he still seems to be mates with Jenson.


Yes, both are capable of good relationships within their teams. But possibly not with each other.

#13027 Fontainebleau

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 21:11

Lol. I'm loving the incredible lengths some people in here go to just to marginalize and justify Alonsos involvement. :lol: Unbelievable.

In fact, as much lenght as others go in trying to justify that it was Alonso who started the whole thing. Please re-read the email in which Alonso asks De la Rosa who Stepney is, and De la Rosa explains how this guy has been feeding the team information for some time.

Dear God in heaven. Fiction can be fun!
Hardly anyone was more involved than Mosley. Not many people knew more about every specific detail in the saga. And yes, also Alonsos involvement. I'm amazed by the blinders some Alonso fanboys have on. Why cant they just accept the fact that he was caught cheating by using data? No one forced him. And he only fessed up to avoid being thrown out of the championship. But maybe denial of hard facts hurts less for a typical Nanboy.

In fact, Mosley himself acknowledged that he never received any information from Alonso until he sent the driver an official request. All he heard until then, he heard either from Dennis or from Ecclestone. Please review his letter to the lawyers that were looking into the case.

#13028 Fontainebleau

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 21:20

Hamilton coped with Button just fine. At no point has their relationship appeared to suffer despite Button trouncing him last year. For the record I think Alonso is currently the most complete driver on the grid, but I also think he is at his best when he has clear No.1 status or else he is likely to throw his toys out of the pram. It is clear also grassed his team up and threw away 2 opportunities to win a WDC. Alonso should have been WDC in 2007 but he let a rookie get to him, albeit a very good rookie.

Like I said, everything is perfect for Alonso at Ferrari, apart from the car. Once that gets sorted I expect a lot of race wins and probably a couple championships.

Olly, you simply don't know that. Whitmarsh himself explained that Hamilton was not particularly happy with his teammate beating him in 2011, that he was under pressure and that he had underestimated Button. Now, the fact that the team has not publicly discussed internal issues or that the same press that was happy to point out how the Spaniard and the Englishman had a difficult relationship has now kept quiet does not mean that their relationship did not suffer.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 09 March 2012 - 21:20.


#13029 zyphro

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 22:05

Just as Lewis is very good friends with Adrian

Haha, yeah right!

:wave:

#13030 gillesthegenius

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:14

There's no reason to think otherwise, he was in his career best form in 2004/5, 2006 is hard to read as the car wasn't very good. But we can't really speculate because it never happened, but in my opinion, team orders aside, 2005 could very well have been different had Trulli been there with no team orders, if that was the case, id say Kimi would have won the title regardless of his technical mishaps due to inter team rivalry at Renault taking points off each other.


Now you are filling my heart with regret. A hot headed Italian and a hot headed Spaniard going head to head for the world title only to see an ice cool Finn stealing the title away. Now that would have made a for a breath-taking season. One that probably would have been even more exciting than the thriller of 2007. :)

#13031 garoidb

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:37

Olly, you simply don't know that. Whitmarsh himself explained that Hamilton was not particularly happy with his teammate beating him in 2011, that he was under pressure and that he had underestimated Button. Now, the fact that the team has not publicly discussed internal issues or that the same press that was happy to point out how the Spaniard and the Englishman had a difficult relationship has now kept quiet does not mean that their relationship did not suffer.


It is true that we cannot know what goes on behind the scenes. Turkey 2010 seemed like a potentially explosive situation. But in public, there just needs to be a professional relationship. They don't need to be friends like Alonso and Trulli etc.

The fact that Button is a media friendly British WDC does protect him from partisanship in the British press (Monaco 2007 etc). His arrival at the team has been a bit of a nightmare for Lewis really in many ways. I am sure he would have preferred to continue with Kovy.

For Alonso, I suppose the question is who will get the other Ferrari seat next year? With Kubica in doubt, and Massa needing a stunning start to the season to rescue his drive, no strong favourite for the drive has emerged (that I can see). I don't think it will be Hamilton if Domenicalli knows whats good for him. He looks like he is close enough to getting fired as it is!




#13032 YellowHelmet

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:42

It is true that we cannot know what goes on behind the scenes. Turkey 2010 seemed like a potentially explosive situation. But in public, there just needs to be a professional relationship. They don't need to be friends like Alonso and Trulli etc.

The fact that Button is a media friendly British WDC does protect him from partisanship in the British press (Monaco 2007 etc). His arrival at the team has been a bit of a nightmare for Lewis really in many ways. I am sure he would have preferred to continue with Kovy.

For Alonso, I suppose the question is who will get the other Ferrari seat next year? With Kubica in doubt, and Massa needing a stunning start to the season to rescue his drive, no strong favourite for the drive has emerged (that I can see). I don't think it will be Hamilton if Domenicalli knows whats good for him. He looks like he is close enough to getting fired as it is!

It doesnt matter who will drive next to Fernando. He is the best.

And i dont think that Massa is that bad. He is just bad in uncompetitive cars. in competitive cars he can shine, too, and in such cars the differecen to alonso will be less.

#13033 puxanando

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 10:29

It doesnt matter who will drive next to Fernando. He is the best.


:up: TRUE!


#13034 Jejking

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:35

Stop pretending your opinion is a fact. I think you would be surprised to see how close some drivers are in this field. Alonso is definitely one of the best guys out there, true, but to automatically assume Alonso won't have a problem with a highprofile driver onboard alongside him in 2013/2014, is wrong.

Alonso got very annoyed at Fisichella a few times when he was leading the race, he asked to be given the lead of the race. Then there's Hockenheim with Massa with repeated 'I'm faster than Felipe' messages.

Alonso isn't the only one who does this but he's had more issues than Hamilton has with teammates (maybe because of the greater sample).

This.

It's a shame that Alonso didn't come from the North, so to speak. I truly think his attitude or less-ability to handle teammates on the same level (occassionally, not always, because he is one hell of a driver) will ultimately become the reason why he won't enter the books as 'the best of alltime'. On stats, not on gut feeling. He is really close to Schumacher1, but not on that point. 2004/2005 were showing signs of him going that route, 2007 proved costly in this matter partly because of him and partly because of McLaren mismanagement. 2010 has shown he still finds it difficult to get his head around it.

Edited by ForeverF1, 10 March 2012 - 13:22.
Removed "Fanboy. Fangirl."


#13035 krea

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:05

His last WDC was in 2006. And the reason why he didn't won another WDC was not just he had for some reason the wrong car but he made in the all the years many wrong decisions.



#13036 YellowHelmet

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 13:17

His last WDC was in 2006. And the reason why he didn't won another WDC was not just he had for some reason the wrong car but he made in the all the years many wrong decisions.

thank you for the clarification.
Now we know the truth :up:

#13037 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:02

Rumors from credible people in Spanish media are saying that Fernando has installed the Twitter app on his iPhone... This would be great if he chose to do so. A great way to keep in touch with his many fans.

#13038 Dolph

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:14

His last WDC was in 2006. And the reason why he didn't won another WDC was not just he had for some reason the wrong car but he made in the all the years many wrong decisions.


Dunno... with a bit of more luck he could have been 4xWDC by now and with a bit less luck 0xWDC. The only wrong decisions he made I see are in hindsight.

#13039 puxanando

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:22

Rumors from credible people in Spanish media are saying that Fernando has installed the Twitter app on his iPhone... This would be great if he chose to do so. A great way to keep in touch with his many fans.

:up: waiting.........

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#13040 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:25

:up: waiting.........


Me too. :wave:

#13041 prty

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 13:22

Apparently, Gené just got his:

https://twitter.com/#!/marc_gene/

#13042 kosmos

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 14:12

Rumors from credible people in Spanish media are saying that Fernando has installed the Twitter app on his iPhone... This would be great if he chose to do so. A great way to keep in touch with his many fans.



I don't know, knowing that he is reluctant to social media, even if he creates a twitter account, I'm not sure that he will update it much. I will be not surprise if the first time we hear about his twitter account is through his ex-wife twitter account.

I wonder if he will write in spanish, english and italian, that will be a pain in the ass.

#13043 kosmos

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 14:18

OK, Carlos Miquel (F1 spanish journo), just now on the radio said that his twitter account will be revealed today.

#13044 Creepy

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 14:32

Obviously an overdose of red and pink paint on your glasses.


I'd be careful with such remarks. Peter Windsor could be damn right and Alosno may get another title. :wave:

Edited by Creepy, 11 March 2012 - 14:33.


#13045 fabr68

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 14:41

Rumors from credible people in Spanish media are saying that Fernando has installed the Twitter app on his iPhone... This would be great if he chose to do so. A great way to keep in touch with his many fans.


Terrible idea.

His twitter account will be just like this thread. Full of widows and sore-behind haters.

#13046 Ferrari2183

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 14:42

I'd be careful with such remarks. Peter Windsor could be damn right and Alosno may get another title. :wave:

I think Windsor is judged unfairly at times because he embelishes his articles somewhat with driving styles and making reference to loads etc.

This is especially true when he writes something that others don't want to hear like Alonso being on the power earlier than (X) through turn (Y) and Hamilton choosing faster lines than (X) and so forth.

#13047 Ferrari2183

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 14:43

Terrible idea.

His twitter account will be just like this thread. Full of widows and sore-behind haters.

He seems pretty thick skinned to me.

#13048 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 14:47

OK, Carlos Miquel (F1 spanish journo), just now on the radio said that his twitter account will be revealed today.


Yes and Raquel said not too long ago that he would start a twitter account. :up:

#13049 SirRacer

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 14:48

He seems pretty thick skinned to me.

I've been following Fernando's career since 2003 and I think I got to know a little how his personality is.

I think he will care about all the bad comments people will make, he won't be showing up as hurt, or even reply them, but that will give him even more hunger to prove them wrong and be the last one to laugh :clap:

Edited by SirRacer, 11 March 2012 - 14:49.


#13050 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 14:49

He seems pretty thick skinned to me.

Yes and when/if he starts one, I believe like many celebrities someone else will make the tweets for him. I do not think he will be the person actually typing but of course they will be from him & what he wants to say.