Jump to content


Photo

Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
14493 replies to this topic

#14401 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 4,762 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 May 2012 - 08:25

I'm not going to argue with him over what he said, maybe he truly believes it or maybe he was being humble but that wasn't how this 'myth' started. It all started back in 2005 when the whole world and his dog believed that Kimi was the fastest man in F1 due to the rocketship he was driving. Many stuck to that believe - and this is in a field with Schumacher still in a Ferrari. So if Kimi was the fastest, then Alonso couldn't be, so he became Mr. Consistent.

But when Kimi got to Ferrari, that myth was busted. However, the myth surrounding Alonso remained cause he was by and large matched by rookie Hamilton. They were nip and tuck but many people, including me, believed that Hamilton will only get faster and better with experience. Ultimately we wouldn't know if he did get faster, but he certainly didn't get any better in terms of consistency - in my personal opinion.


True

Advertisement

#14402 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 6,660 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:25

This Formula One Champ is a Big Japanese Role-Playing Game Geek


Posted Image

Fernando Alonso ‏@alo_oficial

Sunny Italy..;)) no rest today... We start preparing the next GP of Canada..!



#14403 SirRacer

SirRacer
  • Member

  • 1,162 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:32

I don't care about ultimate lap pace

I care about average lap pace, in qualy and in race. And for sure there Alonso is FAST.

So there's no reason to say Alonso is slower than Hamilton or Vettel, more so the other way arround.

#14404 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:53

Alonso is the dark horse

"He is the dark horse and he's driving for the dark horse,"

"He is a two-time World Champion and probably the best driver here."

"Still, if I can tip one driver, I would pick him because he's the only one who can make a difference even with a car that is not a winner."


:clap: :up: :)

#14405 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 6,997 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 28 May 2012 - 10:56

Yep, I am also sick of this absurd mantra. Speed is the key and if he was not at least as fast as anyone else, he would not be the driver he is because every success in F1 relies fundamentally on speed. You can be as consistent as a computer, but without amazing speed, you will not get the results. I never understand where this myth about Alonso lacking speed originated from considering he has shown nothing , absolutely nothing other than blistering speed his entire career, and clearly outpaced all his team mates other than Hamilton.


Alonso brought that mantra upon himself, he downplayed his speed and hailed his completeness. While he may not be the fastest, he is by no means slow, to me, on a given lap, he is a fast as anyone.

Moreover, his ballsiness is incredible, just remember the start at Monaco. The guy has an extremely positive energy field, more or less the opposite of the energy field that Schumacher has right now.

Another aspect is Fernando's mental clarity and focus: he can make very clear predictions about what he can reach in a race - I have never see another driver doing that. In 2010 he more or less predicted everything bar the last race... So the target and the arrow become one in Fernando's case - a zen archer in a red overall!

#14406 puxanando

puxanando
  • Member

  • 3,538 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:14

It was another super performance from Alonso, too. To be leading the championship after six races in a car that, while it is coming on, is still some way off, is the most startling thing about the season.

All the top three in the championship - Alonso, Vettel and Webber - have had car problems this year.
In Alonso's case, his position is simply down to the quality of the driver. He has done astounding things with that car. He's always good off the start, always gets stuck in, and then fights the battle from then on.


WEB>>>

#14407 kissTheApex

kissTheApex
  • Member

  • 205 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 28 May 2012 - 12:38

Alonso is the dark horse
:clap: :up: :)


You know that the last sentence was uttered by Alonso in regards to Hamilton, right?

"Still, if I can tip one driver, I would pick him because he's the only one who can make a difference even with a car that is not a winner."



#14408 TeamMacca

TeamMacca
  • Member

  • 534 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 28 May 2012 - 13:00

This is exactly how i feel, there is zero evidence to suggest Lewis or Vettel are faster, it is just an assumption.


Beating a double world champion in Quali in your first year in F1 - zero evidence?

#14409 discover23

discover23
  • Member

  • 3,867 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 28 May 2012 - 13:05

Beating a double world champion in Quali in your first year in F1 - zero evidence?

By a wooping 8-9
Button comfortably beat Lewis last season, do i think he is a better driver? No, there is more to analyse when then simply looking at stats. If that is the case why bother then to look at the races.

Edited by discover23, 28 May 2012 - 13:06.


#14410 TeamMacca

TeamMacca
  • Member

  • 534 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 28 May 2012 - 13:09

By a wooping 8-9
Button comfortably beat Lewis last season, do i think he is a better driver? No, there is more to analyse when then simply looking at stats. If that is the case why bother then to look at the races.


We were talking about speed not who is better - Fernando is better than Lewis at the present timeai agree 100%

We all know Lewis can't show his speed in the raecs anymore and he and all drivers are driving to certain lap times.

#14411 SirRacer

SirRacer
  • Member

  • 1,162 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 28 May 2012 - 13:32

Alonso is the dark horse



:clap: :up: :)

Here's another source:

http://www.planetf1....-the-dark-horse

And a big thumb up to Lewis to recognize that Alonso is the best, that must be hard to do :up:

#14412 bmardini

bmardini
  • Member

  • 326 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 28 May 2012 - 17:46

Here's another source:

http://www.planetf1....-the-dark-horse

And a big thumb up to Lewis to recognize that Alonso is the best, that must be hard to do :up:


I think they both miss the competition between eachother.

#14413 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,183 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 28 May 2012 - 17:48

I think they both miss the competition between eachother.


Both are bitter on Vettel by the way he took the spotlight out of them, and they praise each other to make Vettel look worse.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 28 May 2012 - 17:48.


#14414 Smile17

Smile17
  • Member

  • 1,116 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 28 May 2012 - 18:20

Both are bitter on Vettel by the way he took the spotlight out of them, and they praise each other to make Vettel look worse.


Lol Is that your conclusion? Wow!

#14415 mursuka80

mursuka80
  • Member

  • 5,106 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 28 May 2012 - 18:22

Lol Is that your conclusion? Wow!


Its a right one TBH. They are downplaying him every chance they get.

#14416 walkindude

walkindude
  • Member

  • 867 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 28 May 2012 - 18:29

Its a right one TBH. They are downplaying him every chance they get.

Or maybe they do rate each other above vettel?Which they are IMO.

#14417 mursuka80

mursuka80
  • Member

  • 5,106 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 28 May 2012 - 18:37

Or maybe they do rate each other above vettel?Which they are IMO.


They dont seem to rate him at all and thats rubbish.

#14418 SirRacer

SirRacer
  • Member

  • 1,162 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 28 May 2012 - 18:37

Or maybe they do rate each other above vettel?Which they are IMO.

+1

Vettel enjoyed the best car hands down last two years, he is way overrated by many people IMO

#14419 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 6,660 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 28 May 2012 - 19:24

Both are bitter on Vettel by the way he took the spotlight out of them, and they praise each other to make Vettel look worse.


Alonsos spotlight was taken down before Vettels rise, hardly it's a problem for Alonso. As always with Alonso when he is honest, some people can't help to make their own movie in their heads.

Advertisement

#14420 race addicted

race addicted
  • Member

  • 19,503 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 28 May 2012 - 19:38

Or maybe they do rate each other above vettel?Which they are IMO.


I am absolutely dead sure that's what it is. I don't think it's meant as some sort of psychological cheap shot, to undermine Vettel, they just think of another driver than him, as the best one.
...and I, like you, agree with them.

#14421 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,183 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 28 May 2012 - 20:43

Lol Is that your conclusion? Wow!


Yes it is. They -especially Alonso, or at least being Spanish I´ve read more comments from him- have constantly made dumb comments like "we´ll see how he does without a dominant car" or "it´s not that easy now he has a normal car". If there´s something really good about Alonso is his smartness, he´s certainly smart enough to see that Vettel is top class, and didn´t born with a dominant RB under his arm and lucked into two WDCs.

Alonso´s smart enough to see Vettel is as good as anyone now. He´s not in a dominant car now and without NK mistake in Malaysia he still would be leading. Also we have that his last 3 years were no doubt better than Lewis´, and that should be enough to rate him AT LEAST equally high right now.


#14422 CF22

CF22
  • Member

  • 386 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 28 May 2012 - 20:52

Yes it is. They -especially Alonso, or at least being Spanish I´ve read more comments from him- have constantly made dumb comments like "we´ll see how he does without a dominant car" or "it´s not that easy now he has a normal car". If there´s something really good about Alonso is his smartness, he´s certainly smart enough to see that Vettel is top class, and didn´t born with a dominant RB under his arm and lucked into two WDCs.

Alonso´s smart enough to see Vettel is as good as anyone now. He´s not in a dominant car now and without NK mistake in Malaysia he still would be leading. Also we have that his last 3 years were no doubt better than Lewis´, and that should be enough to rate him AT LEAST equally high right now.


I come from a Spanish family in the U.S. and we constantly watch TV from Spain, read El Mundo, El Pais and other papers as well. If anything Fernando is very, very shy and humble on Spanish television and radio. He's the complete opposite when he's on English speaking TV and the F1 media, specially from the U.K. where he seems very cold and calculating.


#14423 JKTRacing

JKTRacing
  • Member

  • 184 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 28 May 2012 - 21:08

This myth existed before Alonso's modest words. Surely real world results would take priority over anyones opinion? Where is the evidence that Alonso's one lap pace is questionable? I can only see confirmation of how strong it is.

Matched Trulli, despite being very inexperienced. And Hamilton.
Destroyed, Fisichella, Massa, Piquet, Grosjean



I say it a lot, good, talented drivers dont get better with experience, the Alonso from Minardi was no worst than the Alonso today, Hamilton is neither better nor slower.

I still remember being the only one that believed that Hamilton would give Alonso a run for his money on his "rookie" season, people still dont understand that this drivers have raced all their lives and when they get to F1 there is very little (if any) room for improvement, all F1 drivers know this.

#14424 barneyrubble

barneyrubble
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 07:57

Beating a double world champion in Quali in your first year in F1 - zero evidence?


Depends on how fast the other guy is doesnt it? When you throw in fuel loads, and the fact those regulations were totally different, that result has little relevance these days other than to say they were both pretty even back then.

#14425 barneyrubble

barneyrubble
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:02

I say it a lot, good, talented drivers dont get better with experience, the Alonso from Minardi was no worst than the Alonso today, Hamilton is neither better nor slower.

I still remember being the only one that believed that Hamilton would give Alonso a run for his money on his "rookie" season, people still dont understand that this drivers have raced all their lives and when they get to F1 there is very little (if any) room for improvement, all F1 drivers know this.


I would say they don't really get faster, but they do improve or become more consistent generally. Although large regulaton changes can bring some variation. I think under the post 2009 Regulations of low fuel and slicks, no driver aids, that Alonso is able to show his speed even more than before in qualifying. Evidence of that is the fact he has only been outqualified about 8 times in the last 5 years. Apart from a prime Schumacher and Senna, nothing like that has been seen before in the modern era, which is why I find it stunning when his one lap ability is questioned.

#14426 aray

aray
  • Member

  • 2,599 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:03

Or maybe they do rate each other above vettel?Which they are IMO.

nothing wrong in acknowledging the truth... :smoking:

#14427 MrMontecarlo

MrMontecarlo
  • Member

  • 546 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:25

Hamilton is faster over a single lap.
Alonso is faster over a race distance.

With Vettel I don't know, I'd love to see him paired in the same team with either Hamilton or Alonso.

#14428 Mr2s

Mr2s
  • Member

  • 794 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:41

I say it a lot, good, talented drivers dont get better with experience, the Alonso from Minardi was no worst than the Alonso today, Hamilton is neither better nor slower.

I still remember being the only one that believed that Hamilton would give Alonso a run for his money on his "rookie" season, people still dont understand that this drivers have raced all their lives and when they get to F1 there is very little (if any) room for improvement, all F1 drivers know this.


I see your points regards to raw speed, but experience can make all the difference over an F1 season or even the odd race weekend. There is always room for improvement, or just very hard work to stay on the same level. Then there's learning from mistakes etc.

IMO Lewis needed to start with a lower team. I too was not surprised with the right equipment that he could match Alonso (they all learnt their trade in Karting after all and still use it during the winter fitness programs) , but with say Heiki at McLaren in his first year, I'm not sure the drivers would have pushed each other to that level.

Lewis's young attitude combined with his speed also upset the balance at McLaren and cost them both championships. I think his experience would allow him to form a much better partnership in the future with Alonso.

What's fascinating about Lewis's first season, is that both drivers are quoted as saying that they pushed each other harder than anyone in their careers.

Alonso and Hamilton are the only two drivers since Senna who can consistently drag a 5th or 6th best car on the day, much higher than it should be.
I think it's a shame that the fans of these drivers havn't seen eye to eye since, as their competitiveness and respect for each other is worth celebrating.

Edited by Mr2s, 29 May 2012 - 08:44.


#14429 barneyrubble

barneyrubble
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:45

Alonso and Hamilton are the only two drivers since Senna who can consistently drag a 5th or 6th best car on the day, much higher than it should be.


Since Schumacher you mean.I agree though, and because they were both team mates they both know exactly how good they both are. Vettel is an outsider, which is why I think they don't rate him as high.

#14430 Mr2s

Mr2s
  • Member

  • 794 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:53

Since Schumacher you mean.I agree though, and because they were both team mates they both know exactly how good they both are. Vettel is an outsider, which is why I think they don't rate him as high.


NO, schumacher never drove a bad car. He joined the 3rd best team in 96 who mixed it well with the top 2 in 95 only had reliability issues. Fixed by the agreement to bring over Benetton staff.

In contrast Senna got 3 special podiums in the young Toleman team, in what was probably the 15th best car that year.

Edited by Mr2s, 29 May 2012 - 09:12.


#14431 Stormsky68

Stormsky68
  • Member

  • 1,623 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:54

Alonso and Lewis being exceedingly nice about eachother. A sign of next years driver line up perhaps?

I suspect Alonso will take his 3rd WDC this year. He's so much more mature than he was in the Renault & Mclaren days; all in all I rather like him now and wouldn't object to that result.

#14432 Mr2s

Mr2s
  • Member

  • 794 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 May 2012 - 08:59

Alonso and Lewis being exceedingly nice about eachother. A sign of next years driver line up perhaps?

I suspect Alonso will take his 3rd WDC this year. He's so much more mature than he was in the Renault & Mclaren days; all in all I rather like him now and wouldn't object to that result.


But your'e only going by what has been said in the English speaking media? Alonso by most accounts has been quite a humble nice lad all of his career. F1 can be very contentious making these drivers disliked. We would do a lot worse at making friends in F1.

Edited by Mr2s, 29 May 2012 - 09:13.


#14433 Stormsky68

Stormsky68
  • Member

  • 1,623 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:23

English media doesn't pick favourites, its shows contempt for everyone in equal measure.

Anyway, I'm not here to argue with anyone, I'm praising the guy. He is driving faultessly in a car that is not particularly brilliant. He is my choice for the WDC this year, RB I think will win the WCC.

#14434 Mr2s

Mr2s
  • Member

  • 794 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:27

English media doesn't pick favourites, its shows contempt for everyone in equal measure.


wasnt trying to argue :cool: , but as already pointed out here, Alonso comes across as a completely different character in his native language (or even italian)
Schumacher, quite comfortable in English, refused to talk to the UK media at a certain stage of his career or often gave "yes" "no" "why dont you ask him yourself" type answers. Since joining merc he has been very interesting to listen to.

#14435 SirRacer

SirRacer
  • Member

  • 1,162 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 10:03

I wish Webber will go to Ferrari, he's good friend with Alo, and also this way it will show that wunderkid isn't that good compared to Alonso

Edited by SirRacer, 29 May 2012 - 10:04.


#14436 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 6,997 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:42

What's fascinating about Lewis's first season, is that both drivers are quoted as saying that they pushed each other harder than anyone in their careers.

Alonso and Hamilton are the only two drivers since Senna who can consistently drag a 5th or 6th best car on the day, much higher than it should be.
I think it's a shame that the fans of these drivers havn't seen eye to eye since, as their competitiveness and respect for each other is worth celebrating.


In a way

Alonso + Hamilton = Senna

No one, not even Schumacher could reproduce the driver Senna was. Alonso comes closest to Senna, IMHO, plus Hamilton for the one-lap speed that made Ayrton's qualifyings so memorable.


#14437 SirRacer

SirRacer
  • Member

  • 1,162 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:46

In a way

Alonso + Hamilton = Senna

No one, not even Schumacher could reproduce the driver Senna was. Alonso comes closest to Senna, IMHO, plus Hamilton for the one-lap speed that made Ayrton's qualifyings so memorable.

Alonso is way smarter than Senna, Senna would be worse than Hamilton nowadays

#14438 Smile17

Smile17
  • Member

  • 1,116 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 29 May 2012 - 13:23

In a way

Alonso + Hamilton = Senna

No one, not even Schumacher could reproduce the driver Senna was. Alonso comes closest to Senna, IMHO, plus Hamilton for the one-lap speed that made Ayrton's qualifyings so memorable.


I can see where you're coming from with the Hamilton + Alonso comparison, although I still think Vettel has the better one-lap pace. I agree that no one could reproduce the driver Senna was, because that's just waay past the limit. Schumacher is more balanced/controlled, which in the end is the better/smarter way to go.


Alonso is way smarter than Senna, Senna would be worse than Hamilton nowadays


Senna seemed a very intelligent man. Maybe not on-track, but certainly off-track. He knew what was going on around him, better than anyone else. I don't know about Alonso, but he was certainly smarter than Schumacher. Just a shame his extremeness and 'passion' used to get the better of him. Hamilton comes off as being a bit naive nowadays (no discredit meant).

#14439 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,319 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 May 2012 - 13:36

How could you possible compare a driver that died almost 20 years ago to two drivers that are driving right now, in the details of one lap pace, intelligence etc. etc. No disrespect to any of them, but think for a moment about what you're actually doing. My 2 cents.

Advertisement

#14440 SirRacer

SirRacer
  • Member

  • 1,162 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 13:55

How could you possible compare a driver that died almost 20 years ago to two drivers that are driving right now, in the details of one lap pace, intelligence etc. etc. No disrespect to any of them, but think for a moment about what you're actually doing. My 2 cents.

Brain is awesome, it is able to grab info from two contexts and make a shareable opinion out of it.

#14441 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 6,997 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 29 May 2012 - 14:24

How could you possible compare a driver that died almost 20 years ago to two drivers that are driving right now, in the details of one lap pace, intelligence etc. etc. No disrespect to any of them, but think for a moment about what you're actually doing. My 2 cents.


I completely agree with your reservations - you cannot compare any human being with any human being, because we are all unique. And it is rather difficult to compare drivers through the eras, as we all have seen in past discussions.

That said, be it as a hypothetical intellectual exercise:

Alonso + Hamilton = Senna

holds a number of keys, e.g. the overall race craft plus the incredible one-lap speed. The charisma and likability (that at least most latin people agree on with Alonso and Senna) as well as the possessedness and microcosmic focus in overtaking (leading also to certain deplorable situations) that we find in Lewis and Ayrton.

What is missing is the spiritual dimension that Senna had plus the humanitarian values - yet both Alonso and Hamilton have still time to develop these traits.

Above said, you might understand why to me Senna has been and is to date the most complete driver, yet of the present crop (including Schumacher who is still racing) Alonso is becoming more and more complete with every year.

And the twitter dimension that Fernando introduced for his fans is something unheard of, no driver to date gave fans such a close glimpse into his life.


#14442 dreamerBiH

dreamerBiH
  • Member

  • 206 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 14:49

I can see where you're coming from with the Hamilton + Alonso comparison, although I still think Vettel has the better one-lap pace. I agree that no one could reproduce the driver Senna was, because that's just waay past the limit. Schumacher is more balanced/controlled, which in the end is the better/smarter way to go.




Senna seemed a very intelligent man. Maybe not on-track, but certainly off-track. He knew what was going on around him, better than anyone else. I don't know about Alonso, but he was certainly smarter than Schumacher. Just a shame his extremeness and 'passion' used to get the better of him. Hamilton comes off as being a bit naive nowadays (no discredit meant).


I can't really see how can you say that a certain driver has the best one lap pace on the grid when this same driver was beaten four times this year by his teammate. Vettel was dominant only in last year IMO. Is isn't as flexible as Alonso, the change of rules hurt him very much. Yes, Vettel is ultra fast when he has a perfect car, but so are Alonso and Hamilton, we saw it in 2007.

And as regards this comparison ALO-HAM, I think that the most people forget that Alonso moved in 2007 to a completely other team and had to fight with the change of rules. He was one of the drivers who had to adapt their driving style more than others and yet he managed to adapt very quickly. However, I personally think that he wasn't at his best in 2007, maybe at 90-95% of his abilities.

Noone on the current grid is able to adapt to different circumstances like Alonso. This is for me an obvious proof of his driving skills. ATM, for me he is the best and the fastest driver. I just wish that Ferrari manages to give him the fastest car...

Edited by dreamerBiH, 29 May 2012 - 14:52.


#14443 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 6,660 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 29 May 2012 - 15:09

Horner: "Fernando's driven very well and he's going to be a key factor all the way through this championship, for sure."



#14444 oligc94

oligc94
  • Member

  • 511 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 15:25

By a wooping 8-9
Button comfortably beat Lewis last season, do i think he is a better driver? No, there is more to analyse when then simply looking at stats. If that is the case why bother then to look at the races.


To be fair, beating a 2xWDC at all in your first season (no matter how small the margin) is an extraordinary achievement in itself, and I would say that it is safe to assume that Hamilton is faster now than he was as a rookie in 2007 (all drivers are).

Over one lap, I believe Lewis to be the faster driver, but that does not necessarily mean he is better...

(P.S. although Button did beat Hamilton in points last year, he still got significantly outpaced in quali.)


#14445 dreamerBiH

dreamerBiH
  • Member

  • 206 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 16:08

To be fair, beating a 2xWDC at all in your first season (no matter how small the margin) is an extraordinary achievement in itself, and I would say that it is safe to assume that Hamilton is faster now than he was as a rookie in 2007 (all drivers are).

Over one lap, I believe Lewis to be the faster driver, but that does not necessarily mean he is better...

(P.S. although Button did beat Hamilton in points last year, he still got significantly outpaced in quali.)



Well, it's not. The regulations have been changed many times since then, the cars are completely different and it's up to each driver to adapt to new rules. Just take a look what happened to Massa. Some drivers got better due to these changes, some worse...

Hamilton is imo not faster in any way than Alonso nowdays.

Edited by dreamerBiH, 29 May 2012 - 16:09.


#14446 AdHoc

AdHoc
  • Member

  • 223 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 29 May 2012 - 16:12

No need to argue as long as you don't put the whole field in the same car, with the same treatment and with good tyres.

/debate

#14447 SirRacer

SirRacer
  • Member

  • 1,162 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 16:13

To be fair, beating a 2xWDC at all in your first season (no matter how small the margin) is an extraordinary achievement in itself, and I would say that it is safe to assume that Hamilton is faster now than he was as a rookie in 2007 (all drivers are).

Over one lap, I believe Lewis to be the faster driver, but that does not necessarily mean he is better...


Hamilton has a big natural talent, this means he will hardly improve his ultimate speed, only stuff he can improve was consistency, setup of the car etc... IMO.


#14448 BruisedLee

BruisedLee
  • Member

  • 100 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 29 May 2012 - 16:51

In a way

Alonso + Hamilton = Senna

No one, not even Schumacher could reproduce the driver Senna was. Alonso comes closest to Senna, IMHO, plus Hamilton for the one-lap speed that made Ayrton's qualifyings so memorable.


Senna was driving a frame with 4 tires and a wheel. Alonso and Hamilton are driving "aero" cars and nursing tires. It is impossible to know. As good as Senna was, it could be reasonable to think that uber-talented people all the way from karting to F1, such Alonso and Hamilton, would have a slight chance to keep the pace with Senna or go faster than him.

Senna and Prost were legends of his time. Alonso and Hamilton are becoming the ones of today, with much more competition among teams and much less room for drivers to make a difference. Since the car is almost everything and teams are closest than ever, drivers today have to be really amazing to stand out. So when talking about Hamilton and Alonso, we could be talking about the best drivers ever and we wouldn't even know...

Personally, I have never seen the roll of good performances Alonso has achieved in the last 2 years and a half whatever his position in the grid. When you add what he already has achieved, the team mates he has beaten, the times he has gained positions, the podiums he's gotten, the different cars he has handle, and sporadic drives of a genius (i.e. Malaysia this year), he is the best driver I have ever seen, not because he is better or worse than Senna, but because he stands out regularly in the most competitive field F1 has had in all its history.



#14449 ForzaGTR

ForzaGTR
  • Member

  • 2,953 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 29 May 2012 - 16:55

Alonso and Ham need to get a room! Seriously, what's with all the praise they keep giving each other recently? It's nice to see but it does seem a bit odd.

#14450 velgajski1

velgajski1
  • Member

  • 3,619 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 29 May 2012 - 17:58

Hamilton has a big natural talent, this means he will hardly improve his ultimate speed, only stuff he can improve was consistency, setup of the car etc... IMO.


Setup? Hamilton is best F1 driver in that regards except maybe Vettel (or he can drive around problems, but this is the same effectively). When did you see Hamilton significantly off-pace? In worst case races he was couple of tenths per lap slower than Alonso in 2007., and couple of tenths per lap slower than Button 2010-2012, and even those events were quite rare. Hamilton's only problem is getting penalties and risking too much in duels / losing his temper, this is what cost him loads of points nad probably titles in 2007. and 2010.