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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#1601 Clatter

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:02

i am glad that you are aware of that bias! :up:



maybe we will ses in few months (or years), when he gets a new contract at mclaren!?



sure it was, it was said that it was all in all just alonsos decision!


So what if he eventually ends up at Mac. Do you seriously believer that a future position hinges on a couple of throw lines like this?

It's quite sad that you feel the need to twist everything that is said outside of Spain into some sort of slight.

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#1602 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:04

It's quite sad that you feel the need to twist everything that is said outside of Spain into some sort of slight.

i am not from spain :eek:


#1603 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:27

and about saying nielsen is applying for a job at mclaren: what other reason should there be to state something (undifferentiated) 3 years after it happened?


It put's to bed lots of roumours...



#1604 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:36

than the british press should start quoting more people of other nationalities.
So it is not about me, it is about the people who are quoted in the british press,
and in about 90% of all articles, they are quoting just british people!

and about saying nielsen is applying for a job at mclaren: what other reason should there be to state something (undifferentiated) 3 years after it happened?

The British press quoting mainly British people...scandalous :rolleyes: ! When did this madness start? Quick let's stop this lunacy :rolleyes: .

#1605 seahawk

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:39

than the british press should start quoting more people of other nationalities.
So it is not about me, it is about the people who are quoted in the british press,
and in about 90% of all articles, they are quoting just british people!

and about saying nielsen is applying for a job at mclaren: what other reason should there be to state something (undifferentiated) 3 years after it happened?


After some racist outbreaks of the SPanish "fans" I would really shut up.

#1606 MichaelPM

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:40

i am not from spain :eek:

Aaaaannnnndddd the argument ends hahaha

The ignorance that people who like Alonso must be Spanish is tragic.
You have to hug Hamilton's nuts unless you are Spanish basically.

I'm not saying everyone British likes Hamilton, a lot of them don't (definitely the more well informed ones) because of his behaviour and whining on the radio but the British press has done irreparable damage to Alonso's reputation there only because of 2007. If it was any other team and any other driving pairing it would never have been so overblown.

Those who do not care for the "Britain vs the world" nationalistic hysteria can recognise Alonso's mistakes but not be so rabid about it.

Alonso was, is and forever will be a top F1 driver no matter how many British driver's he goes against.

#1607 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:42

The British press quoting mainly British people...scandalous :rolleyes: !

per se it is not scandalous!
it begins to be scandalous if they selevtively only/mainly print statements which are against another driver/sportsman (of an other country!)


#1608 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:46

After some racist outbreaks of the SPanish "fans" I would really shut up.

if you mean that i should shut up, there is no reason for that:
1. i am not spanish!
2. i never acted in a racist way
3. i am not speaking for a collective, just for me
4. what racist outbreaks of spanish fans are you talking about
5. why do you think that some immature actions of few are representative for a whole nation?

#1609 Clatter

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:46

Aaaaannnnndddd the argument ends hahaha

The ignorance that people who like Alonso must be Spanish is tragic.
You have to hug Hamilton's nuts unless you are Spanish basically.

I'm not saying everyone British likes Hamilton, a lot of them don't (definitely the more well informed ones) because of his behaviour and whining on the radio but the British press has done irreparable damage to Alonso's reputation there only because of 2007. If it was any other team and any other driving pairing it would never have been so overblown.

Those who do not care for the "Britain vs the world" nationalistic hysteria can recognise Alonso's mistakes but not be so rabid about it.

Alonso was, is and forever will be a top F1 driver no matter how many British driver's he goes against.


The damage to his reputation, if there really is any, isn't down to the British press, but his own actions. When you try to blackmail your team then you can pretty much expect the crap to hit the spinny thing and to then blame the press is just a convenient scapegoat.

#1610 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:48

When you try to blackmail your team then you can pretty much expect the crap to hit the spinny thing and to then blame the press is just a convenient scapegoat.

alonso said he never did that
it is just a rumour propagated by dennis and thankfully printed by the british press, without quoting alonso on that! :down: --> selective quoting :down:

Edited by YellowHelmet, 05 July 2010 - 11:49.


#1611 Clatter

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:49

per se it is not scandalous!
it begins to be scandalous if they selevtively only/mainly print statements which are against another driver/sportsman (of an other country!)


Except they don't. The problem is that people selectively take them and either twist them to mean something different or only look at the few bad ones.

#1612 Clatter

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:51

alonso said he never did that
it is just a rumour propagated by dennis and thankfully printed by the british press, without quoting alonso on that! :down: --> selective quoting :down:


The threat to reveal info was real, and is in the FIA transcripts.

#1613 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:51

I'm not saying everyone British likes Hamilton, a lot of them don't (definitely the more well informed ones)


It is comments like this that make me cringe, really.

Why would a 'well informed' person, of any nationality, not enjoy watching a talented racing driver do his job? What do you watch F1 for, Michael? Is it so that you can 'hate' Lewis Hamilton, or is it because you want to see great racing between great drivers? If its the former why aren't you watching som choreographed wrestling bollocks with a good guy an a bad guy? I'm English and I love watching Hamilton, I think Alonso is the best driver on the grid, I see a supreme talent in Vettel, think Sutil the most under-rated talent on the grid, miss Heidfeld greatly, admire Kubica a lot, am quietly impressed by Button, love Kobayashi's better moments, and so on - I love racing! Yet you, in all your wisdom, take it upon yourself to declare the likes of me 'not well well informed' because I happen to think Lewis Hamilton a bloody good racing driver? What on earth are you on? This sport isn't for you - it's about men and machines racing each other, it's nto about who is English, Spanish, German or whatever and how much they whine.

What is it with you people? We have out there the most impressive and diverse bunch of racing talents I've seen in a long time and all you can do is thrive on your hatred for Lewis Hamilton? Grow up.


#1614 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:52

Except they don't. The problem is that people selectively take them and either twist them to mean something different or only look at the few bad ones.

in 2007 blackmail-thing they did, or can you present me one "JUST ONE" article which is quoting alonso who said, he didnt do what he was accused by dennis!

please show me just one!

#1615 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:54

per se it is not scandalous!
it begins to be scandalous if they selevtively only/mainly print statements which are against another driver/sportsman (of an other country!)


Out of interest, seriously, which of the 'British press' publications do you regularly read?


#1616 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:54

What is it with you people? We have out there the most impressive and diverse bunch of racing talents I've seen in a long time and all you can do is thrive on your hatred for Lewis Hamilton? Grow up.

hatred for lewis :stoned:
where did you see this :down:


But as you said, we all are pretty happy to live in this era of f1!
but the stewards should not favour anybody, and should not affect the outcome of the championship due to bad calls!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 05 July 2010 - 11:55.


#1617 Clatter

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:56

in 2007 blackmail-thing they did, or can you present me one "JUST ONE" article which is quoting alonso who said, he didnt do what he was accused by dennis!

please show me just one!


How can I when it's not true? It's even in the FIA court transcrpt. He made the threat and later apologised for it.

#1618 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:56

The threat to reveal info was real, and is in the FIA transcripts.

it was mentioned there, but never proven, alonso and his manager told that!
did the british press print that?
no :down:

#1619 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:57

He made the threat and later apologised for it.

no he didnt, he apologised not for blackmailing :down:
he apologised because he and ron were shouting at each other, and for that he apologised, (as ron did too!)

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#1620 Fubar1979

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:58

Just out of interest, what british press do you read yellow helmet?

#1621 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:59

hatred for lewis :stoned:
where did you see this :down:


Get real mr yellowhelmet, you excelled yourself the other day without anyone needing proof!


But as you said, we all are pretty happy to live in this era of f1!
but the stewards should not favour anybody, and should not affect the outcome of the championship due to bad calls!


They don't; I'm still waiting for anyone to explain to me how the stewards have favoured anyone, Hamilton or otherwise, due to bad calls, especially at Valencia! I really would appreciate if you could explain that to me, because it would help me understand where you're coming from.

#1622 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:00

Get real mr yellowhelmet, you excelled yourself the other day without anyone needing proof!

i hope this is the last time you are denunciating me.
stop it!

i am not hating anybody, stop that




They don't; I'm still waiting for anyone to explain to me how the stewards have favoured anyone, Hamilton or otherwise, due to bad calls, especially at Valencia! I really would appreciate if you could explain that to me, because it would help me understand where you're coming from.

read the other topic: hamilton: valencia!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 05 July 2010 - 12:01.


#1623 Clatter

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:01

it was mentioned there, but never proven, alonso and his manager told that!
did the british press print that?
no :down:


It was mentioned there because they were discussing the course of events. If it were not true then that would have been the ideal time to have mentioned it, but that didn't happen. What was revealed is that he was indeed in reciept of illegal information. He was as guilty as many others in the affair, but was handed immunity.

#1624 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:02

It was mentioned there because they were discussing the course of events. If it were not true then that would have been the ideal time to have mentioned it, but that didn't happen.

he mentioned it immediately after ron and mosley stated such things
here a video to remind you

but your position just reflects the position of the british press.
just an advice: read the press of other countries too!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 05 July 2010 - 12:03.


#1625 Gareth

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:04

Interesting comments from Nielsen - especially as he is someone who knows Alonso well and likes him a lot.

Given those facts and the slightly uncomfortable nature of the comments for the world view of some, I can see why there might be a desperate attempt to paint the comments as valueless on account of his nationality. Shame, though.

#1626 Clatter

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:05

he mentioned it immediately after ron and mosley stated such things
here a video to remind you

but your position just reflects the position of the british press.
just an advice: read the press of other countries too!


What makes you think the press anywhere else is any better? Would it be because they print what you want to hear?

#1627 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:06

Interesting comments from Nielsen - especially as he is someone who knows Alonso well and likes him a lot.

Given those facts and the slightly uncomfortable nature of the comments for the world view of some, I can see why there might be a desperate attempt to paint the comments as valueless on account of his nationality. Shame, though.

i dont think that his nationality is the thing that disqualifies him, it is his undifferentiated way of saying that!
he did so, as if it was just alonsos decision to leave, and that is :down:

#1628 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:07

What makes you think the press anywhere else is any better? Would it be because they print what you want to hear?

you are getting me wrong!
it is not about being better!

it is just an opporunity to overcome the selective quoting of a press in a land!
so you can have not just 1 view on that, but more!

#1629 Gareth

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:08

but your position just reflects the position of the british press.
just an advice: read the press of other countries too!

My position is that the "blackmail" threat happened. I think this because, whilst I can see a very good reason for Alonso and his manager to deny it happened even if it did, I can't see any such reason for Dennis to phone the arch-enemy FIA and tell then about it unless it actually did happen. This phonecall, after all, did lead to the re-openning of the hearing and the $100m fine.

My position does not reflect the British press - as it takes into account Alonso's denail. My position is based on the fact that one of these questions has a very easy answer whereas the other absolutely doesn't:

1. Why would Dennis have phoned Mosley up with that story if it was made up?

2. Why would Alonso deny the story if it was real?

#1630 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:08

i hope this is the last time you are denunciating me.
stop it!

i am not hating anybody, stop that


Ok, but your inherently biased opinion says otherwise. You like Lewis Hamilton, then?


read the other topic: hamilton: valencia!


I have, and I'm still waiting.


#1631 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:10

My position is that the "blackmail" threat happened. I think this because, whilst I can see a very good reason for Alonso and his manager to deny it happened even if it did, I can't see any such reason for Dennis to phone the arch-enemy FIA and tell then about it unless it actually did happen. This phonecall, after all, did lead to the re-openning of the hearing and the $100m fine.

My position does not reflect the British press - as it takes into account Alonso's denail. My position is based on the fact that one of these questions has a very easy answer whereas the other absolutely doesn't:

1. Why would Dennis have phoned Mosley up with that story if it was made up?

2. Why would Alonso deny the story if it was real?

as your posts reflects: you are just speculating!
nothing bad, as we are here in a forum!
but please dont act, as this is proven :down:

to answer your questions!

1. to save his ass, because alonso didnt want to be silent anymore

2. can you post your question one more time, but a little bit different!

#1632 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:13

Ok, but your inherently biased opinion says otherwise. You like Lewis Hamilton, then?

who of real racing fans, would not love hamilton?
if it wasnt about his behaving off the track (maybe after he gets a new manager it will be better) he would probably be my favourite!



I have, and I'm still waiting.

i think you are taking me for a ride!
(please read the other thread, where that is discussed!)

Edited by YellowHelmet, 05 July 2010 - 12:14.


#1633 Clatter

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:13

to answer your questions!

1. to save his ass, because alonso didnt want to be silent anymore


There you go then. In your own words, the threat was real.

#1634 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:14

Interesting comments from Nielsen - especially as he is someone who knows Alonso well and likes him a lot.

Given those facts and the slightly uncomfortable nature of the comments for the world view of some, I can see why there might be a desperate attempt to paint the comments as valueless on account of his nationality. Shame, though.


I think it's very telling and it finally puts to bed the "equal treatment" question about Alonso's time at McLaren.
Neilsen has no reason to lie.

Given what we have recently seen of Alonso's 'fly of the handel' or 'toys out the pram' temproment it's excatly why I think he stormed into Ron's office and threatened him. If he was a little more chilled he may be still there too!!!

#1635 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:17

There you go then. In your own words, the threat was real.

what threat? :drunk:
a threat is not wanting to break a silence,
but to make somebody silent!

#1636 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:18

Neilsen has no reason to lie.

sure he has:
e.g.
applying for a job by mclaren
not liking alonso (especially after his undifferentiated statements!)
etc.


#1637 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:20

applying for a job by mclaren

How do you know? He's Renault Renault Team Manager - McLaren allreay have lots of Managers

not liking alonso (especially after his undifferentiated statements!)

False - he says he loves Alonso



#1638 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:22

How do you know? He's Renault Renault Team Manager - McLaren allreay have lots of Managers

a possibility


False - he says he loves Alonso

after stabing him in the back, with that undifferentiated statements,
thanks god, alonso is not anymore in his team

#1639 Clatter

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:22

what threat? :drunk:
a threat is not wanting to break a silence,
but to make somebody silent!


You obviously don't understand what a threat actually is.

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#1640 Gareth

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:23

as your posts reflects: you are just speculating!
nothing bad, as we are here in a forum!
but please dont act, as this is proven :down:

I haven't acted like that at all. You will note the post starts with the statement that it is my position. So :down: to your reading comprehension, rather than me acting like it's proven.

You, of course, are only speculating when you are claiming that Dennis is lying. That has not been proven either.

We have different views, such is life.

#1641 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:25

a possibility


Your Theory is not fact - Fact is that he is at Renault and has 0 allegiance to McLaren so his statment can be taken with no BIAS - if anything it would be Bias against McLaren

after stabing him in the back, with that undifferentiated statements,
thanks god, alonso is not anymore in his team


I'm sorry the truth doen't fit you agenda

#1642 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:25

We have different views, such is life.

and it is perfect to compare the effects of media on a certain issue, isnt it?


#1643 Clatter

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:26

sure he has:
e.g.
applying for a job by mclaren
not liking alonso (especially after his undifferentiated statements!)
etc.


And you accuse the press of making stuff up. :rolleyes:

#1644 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:26

who of real racing fans, would not love hamilton?
if it wasnt about his behaving off the track (maybe after he gets a new manager it will be better) he would probably be my favourite!


What 'behaviour off track'? What is it that you don't like? I simply don;t get it.

i think you are taking me for a ride!
(please read the other thread, where that is discussed!)

No, I'm not; you know I;ve read the other thread because we conversed there,; your whole argument is about the penalty given to Hamilton not being sufficient FOR YOU, as opposed to trying to understand why that penalty was given, and when, all of which has been satisfactorily explained.

#1645 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:26

I'm sorry the truth doen't fit you agenda

it cant be truth as if he is saying that it was all about alonso whether he wants to leave or not mclaren!
there was a team, let me tell you the name, which will surprise you, MCLAREN, who had a word on that too.

So Nielsen is lying and bashing unnecessarily Alonso :down:

#1646 Gareth

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:27

after stabing him in the back, with that undifferentiated statements,
thanks god, alonso is not anymore in his team

Circular reasoning. You decide that because these statements are (in your mind) damaging to Alonso the person making the statement must dislike Alonso and therefore the statement must be untrue. This reasoning basically guarantees you will never believe any statement that is critical of Alonso.

#1647 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:27

.

So Nielsen is lying and bashing unnecessarily Alonso :down:


Why? Why would he do that?


#1648 Gareth

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:29

and it is perfect to compare the effects of media on a certain issue, isnt it?

If that is the cause of the effect. But in this case, it isn't. I am aware of: (a) the various statements from Mosley and Dennis on the issue; and (b) Alonso's various statements on the issue. The difference in my view is not a result of us viewing the issue through different media reports, it's just we come to different views on the same facts. Like I said, it happens, such is life.

#1649 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:31

What 'behaviour off track'? What is it that you don't like? I simply don;t get it.

e.g. 2007 after monaco saying he was able to win (although he was on all 3 days slower than alonso), if the the team hasnt disallowed that
e.g. whining after he was penalised fairly of taking illegal advantage (in spa 2008 and fuji 2008)
e.g. statements like good to know the weak point of alonso



No, I'm not; you know I;ve read the other thread because we conversed there,; your whole argument is about the penalty given to Hamilton not being sufficient FOR YOU, as opposed to trying to understand why that penalty was given, and when, all of which has been satisfactorily explained.

the announcement of the penalty took them 30 min. that was too long!

#1650 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:32

it cant be truth as if he is saying that it was all about alonso whether he wants to leave or not mclaren!
there was a team, let me tell you the name, which will surprise you, MCLAREN, who had a word on that too.

So Nielsen is lying and bashing unnecessarily Alonso :down:


Nope thats an error - you're attemting to dicount what (a non bias) Nielsen has said as it doent fit with your agenda. He has no other reason to stat this other than it being fact.
Alonso would have been better off at McLaren Fighting Lewis Hamilton rather than driving for a subpar renault.

Neilson states
McLaren do treat their Dricvers Fairly - rather than have a No. 1
Somthing that many have tried to refute.