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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#1651 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:32

Circular reasoning. You decide that because these statements are (in your mind) damaging to Alonso the person making the statement must dislike Alonso and therefore the statement must be untrue.

than answer me this question:

Was it all about just ALONSO leaving or staying at mclaren?

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#1652 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:33

Neilson states
McLaren do treat their Dricvers Fairly - rather than have a No. 1
Somthing that many have tried to refute.

and that he is not capable of saying if he doesnt work for them, or wants to work for them!

#1653 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:34

and that he is not capable of saying if he doesnt work for them, or wants to work for them!


?????? What ??????

He doen't work for them - He Works for Renault - He worked with Alonso....

Edited by Mika Mika, 05 July 2010 - 12:35.


#1654 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:34

Why? Why would he do that?

many possible reasons for that, as i stated some, see above!

#1655 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:35

?????? What ??????

how can he know, how mclaren works, or how they worked, when alonso was there, if he is not working for mclaren, or doesnt have any ambitions working there?

#1656 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:36

many possible reasons for that, as i stated some, see above!


Thoeries that oppose the facts and fit an obsesivily pro Alonso agenda

#1657 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:37

Thoeries that oppose the facts and fit an obsesivily pro Alonso agenda

no it is just balancing the bias he brought in!

#1658 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:38

how can he know, how mclaren works, or how they worked, when alonso was there, if he is not working for mclaren, or doesnt have any ambitions working there?


Because he works in F1 - with other people in f1 I know what time my neighbour put his bins out - which way he park's his car - what kind of TV he has - doesnt mean I want to sleep with his wife!!!

#1659 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:40

Because he works in F1 - with other people in f1 I know what time my neighbour put his bins out - which way he park's his car - what kind of TV he has - doesnt mean I want to sleep with his wife!!!

he surely doesnt know, how alonso was treated in mclaren 2007 (especially not from his experiences, but rather from telling of others!)
and it is a lie to say that it was just about alonso leaving or staying at mclaren! :down:

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#1660 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:40

no it is just balancing the bias he brought in!


With unfounded faceless and basless accusations.

Here we have 2 points of view

1 based on Nielsen interview - that comes acrross as polite - truthfull - intresting - insiteful

and

2 yours

Edited by Mika Mika, 05 July 2010 - 12:41.


#1661 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:41

e.g. 2007 after monaco saying he was able to win (although he was on all 3 days slower than alonso), if the the team hasnt disallowed that
e.g. whining after he was penalised fairly of taking illegal advantage (in spa 2008 and fuji 2008)
e.g. statements like good to know the weak point of alonso


How can you possibly have a gripe with stewarding in 2010 if you actually believe that Spa and Fuji, 2008, were justified penalties? That really takes the biscuit.

#1662 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:41

he surely doesnt know, how alonso was treated in mclaren 2007 (especially not from his experiences,


But you do?

#1663 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:42

How can you possibly have a gripe with stewarding in 2010 if you actually believe that Spa and Fuji, 2008, were justified penalties? That really takes the biscuit.

we have already discussed that in the hamilton thread too, just some days ago!

short answer: in both cases hamilton took illegal advantage after his own mistake (in both cases after braking too late!)

#1664 robefc

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:42

Aaaaannnnndddd the argument ends hahaha

The ignorance that people who like Alonso must be Spanish is tragic.
You have to hug Hamilton's nuts unless you are Spanish basically.

I'm not saying everyone British likes Hamilton, a lot of them don't (definitely the more well informed ones) because of his behaviour and whining on the radio but the British press has done irreparable damage to Alonso's reputation there only because of 2007. If it was any other team and any other driving pairing it would never have been so overblown.

Those who do not care for the "Britain vs the world" nationalistic hysteria can recognise Alonso's mistakes but not be so rabid about it.

Alonso was, is and forever will be a top F1 driver no matter how many British driver's he goes against.


Hear the crowd on sunday...that will be all the ill informed fans like me cheering him on  ;)

#1665 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:44

But you do?

i am not saying that.
but the person who was involved said, and it was obvious on many occasions that the team treated him not same as they did hamilton
especially after monaco 2007:
alonso won fair and square
and the team let the impression that he was favoured, and that is unfair treatment, which just worsened after that :down:


#1666 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:47

we have already discussed that in the hamilton thread too, just some days ago!

short answer: in both cases hamilton took illegal advantage after his own mistake (in both cases after braking too late!)


Sorry mate, was enjoying discussing things with you in a rational and interesting manner but you've lost all credibility in moaning about the stewards at Valencia - who did nothing wrong and acted correctly in difficult circumstances - and upholding the penalties at Spa and Fuji in 2008 which, in 40 years of watching F1 rank as just about the most ludicrous I have ever seen. If you really, truly believe they were correct - and you're not just saying that because to say otherwise wiuld be admitting that lewis Hamilton was wrongly penalised - then you shouldn;t be watching motor racing at all, never mind F1.

To be brief, Hamilton broke no rule at Spa - that's not even arguable, it's a fact - and neither did he at Fuji; to hold those incidents up as correct decisions is to accept that the stewards can be as corrupt as it wants when they want, hence you have absolutely no grounds for complaining about Valencia even if you think it a travesty.

#1667 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:49

Sorry mate, was enjoying discussing things with you in a rational and interesting manner but you've lost all credibility in moaning about the stewards at Valencia - who did nothing wrong and acted correctly in difficult circumstances - and upholding the penalties at Spa and Fuji in 2008 which, in 40 years of watching F1 rank as just about the most ludicrous I have ever seen. If you really, truly believe they were correct - and you're not just saying that because to say otherwise wiuld be admitting that lewis Hamilton was wrongly penalised - then you shouldn;t be watching motor racing at all, never mind F1.

To be brief, Hamilton broke no rule at Spa - that's not even arguable, it's a fact - and neither did he at Fuji; to hold those incidents up as correct decisions is to accept that the stewards can be as corrupt as it wants when they want, hence you have absolutely no grounds for complaining about Valencia even if you think it a travesty.

forcing drivers off track (and profiting on that) is not a brake of rules, please read the regualtions :down:
taking advantage of leaving the track is not a brake of rules :down:

raise your game and make your thoughts about the spirit of sport (most of it is written in the code and the regulations, even if not all possible cases of braking this rules are written down, it is thanks possible to judge if a certain maneuver is against the spirit of sport or not!)

Edited by YellowHelmet, 05 July 2010 - 12:52.


#1668 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:51

forcing drivers off track (and profiting on that) is not a brake of rules, please read the regualtions :down:
taking advantage of leaving the track is not a brake of rules :down:


What was Hamilton penalised for at Spa in 2008?

#1669 robefc

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:52

forcing drivers off track (and profiting on that) is not a brake of rules, please read the regualtions :down:
taking advantage of leaving the track is not a brake of rules :down:


Wow, you think kimi should have been penalised in spa instead of hamilton?! :p

#1670 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:52

What was Hamilton penalised for at Spa in 2008?

post it

#1671 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:52

i am not saying that.
but the person who was involved said, and it was obvious on many occasions that the team treated him not same as they did hamilton
especially after monaco 2007:
alonso won fair and square
and the team let the impression that he was favoured, and that is unfair treatment, which just worsened after that :down:


So -

Nieson is definatly Lieing?

McLaren (who have denied) are definatly Lieing (all 500 of them - not 1 come out to say otherwise)

Alsono can't possiably be lieing????

#1672 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:54

post it


No, I'm asking you - what was he penalised for at Spa in 2008? If you're so convinced it was a justifiable penalty you must know!

#1673 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:54

Wow, you think kimi should have been penalised in spa instead of hamilton?! :p

no as kimi gave hamilton enough room to hamilton place himself behind kimi, but hamilton didnt want it, left the track and profited on that,
without leaving the track hamilton wouldnt have been in the position to attack as he was after!

#1674 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:55

e.g. statements like good to know the weak point of alonso

If you actually watch the video of him saying that it was obviously said on a whim. His facial expression showed he was stunned that Alonso was so angry with him (what the reporter had said) and when asked what his response was he jokingly said it was good to know his weak point. Grow a sense of humor mate.

#1675 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:56

no as kimi gave hamilton enough room to hamilton place himself behind kimi, but hamilton didnt want it, left the track and profited on that,
without leaving the track hamilton wouldnt have been in the position to attack as he was after!


And what was he penalised for?


#1676 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:57

no as kimi gave hamilton enough room to hamilton place himself behind kimi, but hamilton didnt want it, left the track and profited on that,
without leaving the track hamilton wouldnt have been in the position to attack as he was after!

I'm not going to open this whole debate, but please don't say that you feel Hamilton's penalty was justified? Especially considering the fact that Kimi actually crashed out at the end anyway and Hamilton had technically kept to the rules as they were then by giving the place back.

#1677 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:57

No, I'm asking you - what was he penalised for at Spa in 2008? If you're so convinced it was a justifiable penalty you must know!

for having an advantage due to cutting a chicane

#1678 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:58

for having an advantage due to cutting a chicane


That's right; what normally happens when a driver gains such an advantage, what is his next move, on track, the right thing to do?

#1679 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 12:59

I'm not going to open this whole debate, but please don't say that you feel Hamilton's penalty was justified?

why not?
who are you to tell me what i should think?

it was obvious that hamilton profited due to leaving the track and cutting a chicane!
and that is worth a penalty!


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#1680 Mika Mika

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:00

Off Topic - were discussing how Neilson said Alonso had equal treatment at McLeren rather than being aloowed to be No. 1

#1681 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:00

That's right; what normally happens when a driver gains such an advantage, what is his next move, on track, the right thing to do?

not to profit on that and not to bring yourself in a position where you wouldnt be without that braking of rule!

#1682 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:01

not to profit on that and not to bring yourself in a position where you wouldnt be without that braking of rule!

No, answer me properly; one driver has cut a chicane and passed another, what does he do next, what should he do?

#1683 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:04

No, answer me properly; one driver has cut a chicane and passed another, what does he do next, what should he do?

i answered it already, and i did it properly,
a driver who is cutting a chicane is not allowed to profit on it!
a profit can look like
a) immediate proft, by gaining a position
b) profit by bringing onesself in a position to attack, in which the driver wouldnt be without that cutting the chicane!

#1684 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:06

i answered it already, and i did it properly,


No you didn't - a driver, any driver, passes another by cutting a chicane; what should be his next move, what should he do?

#1685 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:09

No you didn't - a driver, any driver, passes another by cutting a chicane; what should be his next move, what should he do?

it should be by letting that driver repass, and not bringing onesself in a position to attack for the next 3 corners! And that because not to profit due to cutting the chicane:
as i stated above:
there can be an immediate profit (by gaining a position) and an profit which wouldnt be there when the driver havent cutted the chicane!

#1686 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:14

it should be by letting that driver repass,


No! In fact, what should happen next is that the driver should repass and his team should contact race control and check whether what they have done is sufficient. This was precisely what Hamilton, and McLaren, did. They were told 'yes, everything is fine' and this AFTER Hamilton had, quite legally (as despite your comment there is no rule, never has been, and never will be a rule about waiting for three corners - or one, as it was touted at the time) repassed Raikkonen for the lead.

See, it took me two attempts to get you to write the above because you KNOW that the penalty given to Hamilton at Spa was unjustified; it would have been just as unjustified had it been Alonso, or anyone else, because it was a complete and utter travesty.

This is why you lose credibility - you can't possibly argue that the stewards were right in that situation and then tell us they were incompetent at Valencia.

On that note, and with respect, I really have no more to say to you.






#1687 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:24

(as despite your comment there is no rule, never has been, and never will be a rule about waiting for three corners - or one, as it was touted at the time)

it is an agreement between drivers and the fia, even if it was not published in the british press. (heidfeld ans alonso said after that race, that they are discussing that very often in the meeting of drivers!)
especially after that happened already in suzuka 2005
alonso cutted the chicane and passed so klien, he let klien repass and directly overtook klien
and had to let klien repass 2-3 laps later!
see this video about min. 6:55

nobody was whining when it happened to alonso, but when it happened to hamilton everybody says it is unfair :down:

#1688 Fubar1979

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:26

What british press do you read yellow helmet im just interested because there is a lot of publications in the british press lol im still not fully understanding why you hate theme so much

Edited by Fubar1979, 05 July 2010 - 13:26.


#1689 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:31

why not?
who are you to tell me what i should think?

it was obvious that hamilton profited due to leaving the track and cutting a chicane!
and that is worth a penalty!

Oh just lol.

#1690 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:32

Oh just lol.

you see the video i posted above, where the same case happened to alonso and nobody was saying it was unfair.

look at the video!


#1691 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:35

it is an agreement between drivers and the fia, even if it was not published in the british press. (heidfeld ans alonso said after that race, that they are discussing that very often in the meeting of drivers!)
especially after that happened already in suzuka 2005
alonso cutted the chicane and passed so klien, he let klien repass and directly overtook klien
and had to let klien repass 2-3 laps later!
see this video about min. 6:55

nobody was whining when it happened to alonso, but when it happened to hamilton everybody says it is unfair :down:

You know well that they were applied in very different ways.

#1692 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:37

You know well that they were applied in very different ways.

hamilton never let kimi (voluntary) reovertake, and profited on that and so was penalised after race!


#1693 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:39

it is an agreement between drivers and the fia,


Despite my earlier assurance, no it's not. It was allegedly a 'gentlemans agreement' between the drivers and had nothing to do with the FIA, yet some claimed not to know about it and others did. The point is that it was not, and is not, a regulation and therefore has no standing. Your constant excuse about the 'british press' is laughable; surely you read Autosport?

As I said, if you believe that a just penalty you cannot possibly slate the stewards at valencia - it makes you a laughing stock.

#1694 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:40

Despite my earlier assurance, no it's not. It was allegedly a 'gentlemans agreement' between the drivers and had nothing to do with the FIA, yet some claimed not to know about it and others did. The point is that it was not, and is not, a regulation and therefore has no standing. Your constant excuse about the 'british press' is laughable; surely you read Autosport?

As I said, if you believe that a just penalty you cannot possibly slate the stewards at valencia - it makes you a laughing stock.

see the video where the same happened with alonso, and as it already happened in the past, hamilotn should have known better!

#1695 Lifew12

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:49

see the video where the same happened with alonso, and as it already happened in the past, hamilotn should have known better!



But race control told McLaren all was well.

#1696 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:55

hamilton never let kimi (voluntary) reovertake, and profited on that and so was penalised after race!

Why did Alonso let Klien re-pass those lap later? Likely because Charlie Whiting had told him to (via the team). There wasn't any stewards involved for example. The difference with the Hamilton incident was that CW said that the re-pass was legitimate. If he had done the same as the Alonso incident to Lewis in 2008 and told him to give the place back again, then Lewis would still have won the race as he would have let Kimi pass again and then likely would have profited in the rain later on. Spa 2008 was a complete travesty.

Edited by syph0nJZ05, 05 July 2010 - 13:56.


#1697 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:57

But race control told McLaren all was well.

after kimi crashed?

if they did, it is just another example for their incompetence!
after they decided to penalise alonso in the same case in 2005!

#1698 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:59

after kimi crashed?

if they did, it is just another example for their incompetence!
after they decided to penalise alonso in the same case in 2005!

No they told them it was fine before Kimi crashed. Thus Lewis didn't even get a chance to repass like Alonso did.

#1699 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:59

Why did Alonso let Klien re-pass those lap later? Likely because Charlie Whiting had told him to (via the team). There wasn't any stewards involved for example. The difference with the Hamilton incident was that CW said that the re-pass was legitimate. If he had done the same as the Alonso incident to Lewis in 2008 and told him to give the place back again, then Lewis would still have won the race as he would have let Kimi pass again and then likely would have profited in the rain later on. Spa 2008 was a complete travesty.

they hadnt any chance to tell lewis to repass, after all the chaos in that round, maybe they would 1-2 laps later.
but it was obvious they had to react, after they reacted in suzuka 2005 for the same move.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 05 July 2010 - 14:01.


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#1700 YellowHelmet

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 14:00

No they told them it was fine before Kimi crashed. Thus Lewis didn't even get a chance to repass like Alonso did.

who is they?
and where do you have the information they did before kimi crashed?