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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#2151 abc

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 18:56

:lol:

Definitely some people live in different realities.


Alonso heavier: Bahrain, Silverstone, Italy, China

Hamilton heavier: Australia, Malaysia, Spain, Monaco, Hungary, Turkey, Spa

Hamilton/Alonso - 7:4

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#2152 ZooL

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 18:58

Seriously why are Alonso fans trying to defend someone who had 0 years of F1 experiance to someone who had 7 years?

0 vs 7?

Hello?

Alonso fans should realise it wasn't even a fair comparison to begin with - yet he still failed to beat Hamilton.

Edited by ZooL, 08 July 2010 - 18:58.


#2153 skid solo

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:01

Alonso heavier: Bahrain, Silverstone, Italy, China

Hamilton heavier: Australia, Malaysia, Spain, Monaco, Hungary, Turkey, Spa

Hamilton/Alonso - 7:4


Funny how they use that on the Kovalainen thread to justify him being beaten by Hamilton but it is not relevant for Hamilton

#2154 Hole

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:06

:rotfl: The Hamilton obsession continues. I suppose there is a lot for the average Alonso fan to 'get over' with regards the unique racing talent that is Hamilton. Best of luck to you all.


You've got to be kidding. Hamilton fans flooding this thread bringing him (or Kimi) but according to you are Alonso fans who are obsessed with Hamilton :rotfl:


Cinism at its best.

#2155 Yorkie

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:13

no from the official stats!

What stats are they, Lewis was quicker in Q1, Alonso was 0.048s quicker in Q2 wow :rolleyes:

Q3 Lewis got bulked by Webber when up to that point he had been 0.3s below pole time on his sectors completed

Fuel difference in qualifying was 5 laps: source

One lap of fuel in 2009 was worth 2.58kgs: source. So Hamilton qualified with 12.9kgs of fuel more.

In 2009 the time penalty was 0.023s per kilo: source. Which calculates to a time loss for Hamilton of 0.297s.

Actual time difference was 0.18s: source.

So there is a decent argument that, on the same strategy (ie fuel load), Hamilton would have qualified ahead of Alonso and, given the nature of Monaco, even if Alonso was faster come race day that Hamilton could have won.

None of the above is to suggest that Alonso did not deserve that win. The split strategy was very sensible for the team and, had there been a pre-first stop SC, could have handed the race to Hamilton. But the suggestion that Hamilton could have won had they been on the same strategy is hardly outlandish given the above.

You should bear in mind Lewis did his fastest lap on his 1st run so was basically 7 laps heavier then when Alonso set pole time


#2156 Hole

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:19

:wave: :kiss: :stoned: :drunk:

Get over it..Alonso was beaten by a ROOKIE :rotfl:


Ron Dennis was not a rookie.

#2157 skid solo

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:21

Ron Dennis was not a rookie.


I think your confusing Ron Dennis with someone better known as Mr President!

#2158 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:22

Go away to your Hamilton cave and don't accuse others about being obsessed with Hamilton.

Mosto of you are obsessed with Alonso.

Get over it!!!

You've shown your intellect, or lack of it I should say. Don't worry if you haven't yet learnt to join in proper discussions, you may learn in time, instead of having to post unnecessary pictures :rolleyes: .

#2159 Yorkie

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:23

fastest time on thursday 1.15.940 was set in fp2 by alonso thursday fp2
fastest time on saturday 1.15.431 was set in q2 by alonso saturday
fastest time on sunday 1.15.372 was set by alonso fastest laps

Lewis was running heavier than Alonso throughout most of the race, however i read a race report that fuel corrected Lewis actually set a faster race lap than Alonso

Edited by Yorkie, 08 July 2010 - 19:23.


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#2160 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:25

Lewis was running heavier than Alonso throughout most of the race, however i read a race report that fuel corrected Lewis actually set a faster race lap than Alonso

Well that has already been explained to him. But he fails to accept fuel corrected times as evidence of a driver being faster.

#2161 Campeador

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:26

Pictures deleted. Mission accomplished.

Now you can leave this thread for people keen on talking respectfuly about Alonso.

Thank you.

#2162 Hole

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:28

Pictures deleted. Mission accomplished.

Now you can leave this thread for people keen on talking respectfuly about Alonso.

Thank you.


They don't understand that. This thread serves as a board to bash Alonso and drop derogatory slurs towards Alonso fans.

#2163 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:34

Pictures deleted. Mission accomplished.

Now you can leave this thread for people keen on talking respectfuly about Alonso.

Thank you.

This isn't a support thread. This is a place to discuss Alonso be it positively or negatively. If you can't handle criticism of your 'idle' then this isn't the thread for you.

#2164 Hole

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:35

This isn't a support thread. This is a place to discuss Alonso be it positively or negatively. If you can't handle criticism of your 'idle' then this isn't the thread for you.


Who said this is a support thread? But that it is not a suport thread is no argument to bash him as well as mock at Alonso fans.

Edited by AdamKOR, 08 July 2010 - 19:35.


#2165 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:37

They don't understand that. This thread serves as a board to bash Alonso and drop derogatory slurs towards Alonso fans.

Many here can't distinguish criticism from bashing. I accept sometimes there can be a fine line, but Alonso fanboys have to accept their 'idle' isn't perfect and just as this thread serves for support of FA it equally serves as a place for criticism (respectfully of course).

#2166 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:38

Who said this is a support thread? But that it is not a suport thread is no argument to bash him as well as mock at Alonso fans.

Who said it was a place to bash him?

#2167 ForeverF1

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:41

All, Alonso fans and others, a reminder of the House Rules and that there are no driver/team appreciation threads on this BB. Thanks.

* Flame Baits vs 'Freedom of Speech'.
Drivers and teams are public domain. They are there to be adored and scorned, admired and admonished, revered and questioned constantly. But, there is a fine line between scorning/admonishing/questioning and defaming/wrongly accusing/slandering. It's not always easy to know where that fine line lies, nor is it easy to always make a unanimously agreed judgement call on whether something falls under what would be constituted as allowable and what we would constitute as not.

* When something is blatantly illegal or a mere flame-bait, we simply delete it.
* When something is within the acceptable realm of speaking up, we simply let it exist here, regardless of whether it's ridiculous or ludicrous.


We know that this is a place for discussion and airing of views and we want to make it a place in which you want to do so.



#2168 Campeador

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:45

This isn't a support thread. This is a place to discuss Alonso be it positively or negatively. If you can't handle criticism of your 'idle' then this isn't the thread for you.

I know this isn't a support thread.
You can't discuss Alonso positively here, whatever positive you say about him you get a one line reply and an emoticon like this :wave: or this :clap: or this :rotfl: .

#2169 skid solo

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:46

Who said it was a place to bash him?


I have a lot of respect for Alonso, he did really well against Lewis and although he was only placed third in the championship he did tie with him on points. I do think he was shocked at Hamilton's natural speed and race craft and has done well to survive the potential damage losing to Hamilton may have done. He is definitely in my top five or six

#2170 Hole

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 19:52

Who said it was a place to bash him?



I think when me, an Alonso fan, enters to this thread and see comments by default like "Alonso fans are obsessed with Hamilton", it's understandable a lot of people will feel upset. IMO coming up with those coments is pourposely flamming other people, aka trolling. And you see them oftenly around here.


Edited by ForeverF1, 08 July 2010 - 19:54.
Removed "So yes, it's a bashing thread." If you think a post or a poster is breaking House Rules, use the report function. We will deal with it.


#2171 Yorkie

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:15

Thats just a myth. Webber was at least 50 metres down the road when hamilton blew the lap all on his own with a big slide into Loews.

He made a mistake because the Red Bull was in the way like he was going to magic the Red Bull away :rolleyes:

webber holded him up, he made a small error in loews and had more fuel on board than alonso .. and and and
please stop with those excuses
alonso was slightly faster and thats it!

The lap Lewis set his fastest lap he had 7 more laps of fuel than Alonso, so fuel corrected he would have outqualified Alonso by 0.157s

#2172 currupipi

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:18

lets see what fernando can do this weekend, we are due for a good result

#2173 currupipi

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:28

And people say Alonso fans are obssesed.. :rolleyes:


everytime time i see your name i cant help myself and laugh, defit the best name on this board :up:


#2174 Yorkie

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:29

It's obvious that Hamilton had better treatment in 2007, we discussed that thousands of times. It's clear that Alonso beat Hamilton on track (10:7), that said, I don't know why Hamilton fans still want to discuss 2007.

There's nothing more to discuss, it's plain and simple: you put them to race alone 17 times on a track, Alonso wins by 3 races.

2007 WDC
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso

Plus Lewis was a rookie and Alonso was the reigning 2xWDC

Yea it was because McLaren wasn't favouring Hamilton in Monaco and he got beaten definitively by Alonso in position, pace and everything else which resulted in Hamilton bitching to the press and causing an FIA investigation.

After that race it was a different season and team.

Yes after Monaco Lewis managed to get himself equal treatment

That's a good point, but you missing one important thing there. Drivers rarely beat each other by a big margin simply by showing better pace. There's usually some element beyond driver control involved in all these big victories - incidents, car problems, safety car, etc. So it's simply showing who is more lucky and not who is better. And if we look only at the races with no incidents in 2007, then we have 7:2 in Alonsos favor, moreover only two of them were by a big margin (Britain and Turkey) and again it was Alonso who beat Hamilton.
So it was Alonso who showed better pace in 2007, Hamilton simply had more luck.

Wasnt Turkey where Lewis was miles in front of Alonso until his tyre failed?

#2175 skid solo

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:35

2007 WDC
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso

Plus Lewis was a rookie and Alonso was the reigning 2xWDC


Yes after Monaco Lewis managed to get himself equal treatment


Wasnt Turkey where Lewis was miles in front of Alonso until his tyre failed?

:lol:


#2176 Hole

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:37

Lewis was a rookie but he had been helped by the goldish hand of Ron for years. That year wasn't an exception.

Anyway, it is not that he didnt have experience already with Formula one cars. In addition, and something that some Hamilton fans should take inton consideration, He came from GP2 (bridgestone) and Alonso had been under Michelin presence for a lot of years. Even the fastest ever Kimi had some problems with the tyres.

Edited by AdamKOR, 08 July 2010 - 20:38.


#2177 Massacrator

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:41

Lewis was a rookie but he had been helped by the goldish hand of Ron for years. That year wasn't an exception.

Anyway, it is not that he didnt have experience already with Formula one cars. In addition, and something that some Hamilton fans should take inton consideration, He came from GP2 (bridgestone) and Alonso had been under Michelin presence for a lot of years. Even the fastest ever Kimi had some problems with the tyres.

Good point. And anyway, a GP2 car is more or less a HTR car, so it isn't that much of a difference :rotfl:

It will be nice to see how Fernando and Hamilton adapt to the new Pirelli tyres, specially knowing how Fernando always adapts fast and gets the max out of what he's got while others struggle with it :clap:

#2178 se7en_24

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:43

GP2 tyres aren't F1 tyres (until next year at least) so you could argue that Hamilton had more to adapt to. Different tyres (like Alonso) and an F1 car instead of a GP2 car and yet he still beat the 2x World Champion. :)

#2179 Yorkie

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:44

Good post. Can you imagine the uproar if the mysterious gearbox failure in Brazil happened to Alonso!?

It would have been all the evidence the Alonso fans and Spanish needed to confirm their beliefs that Alonso was being sabotaged, but wait it happened to Lewis :eek:

Hamilton didn't spin ! His rears were worn down to the canvas and he had to go so slowly that not enough heat was being generated to provide turn in grip.
100% the team's fault IMHO, asking a rookie to drive on tyres worn like that.



Posted Image

Total cock up by McLaren, ive never seen tyres worn down to the canvas like that, Lewis must have had near zero grip

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#2180 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:45

GP2 tyres aren't F1 tyres (until next year at least) so you could argue that Hamilton had more to adapt to. Different tyres (like Alonso) and an F1 car instead of a GP2 car and yet he still beat the 2x World Champion. :)

Incredible achievement.

#2181 toxicfusion

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:47

GP2 tyres aren't F1 tyres (until next year at least) so you could argue that Hamilton had more to adapt to. Different tyres (like Alonso) and an F1 car instead of a GP2 car and yet he still beat the 2x World Champion. :)



*sigh* Lewis was testing the McLaren before Fernando was anywhere near it.

#2182 uzi

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:49

Occassionally Ron drove for Lewis then - isn't that you mean by "Golden Hand"?

Lewis was a rookie but he had been helped by the goldish hand of Ron for years. That year wasn't an exception.

Anyway, it is not that he didnt have experience already with Formula one cars. In addition, and something that some Hamilton fans should take inton consideration, He came from GP2 (bridgestone) and Alonso had been under Michelin presence for a lot of years. Even the fastest ever Kimi had some problems with the tyres.



#2183 Massacrator

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:50

GP2 tyres aren't F1 tyres (until next year at least) so you could argue that Hamilton had more to adapt to. Different tyres (like Alonso) and an F1 car instead of a GP2 car and yet he still beat the 2x World Champion. :)

I'm sure that when you go and drive an F1 after you have been driving a GP2 car you should feel wonderful having that kind of downforce. I don't see a big achivement on it; we haven't got to see many good drivers getting to start in F1 in a car as competitive as 2007's McLaren.

#2184 Hole

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:51

Occassionally Ron drove for Lewis then - isn't that you mean by "Golden Hand"?


I mean what it happened. Hamilton is a very good driver, but he has been helped by Ron for years. That's just what I mean. One has to be naive to see that as irrelevant.

Edited by AdamKOR, 08 July 2010 - 20:53.


#2185 Yorkie

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 20:55

Well that has already been explained to him. But he fails to accept fuel corrected times as evidence of a driver being faster.

Do people still believe the earth is flat as well?


Lewis was a rookie but he had been helped by the goldish hand of Ron for years. That year wasn't an exception.

Anyway, it is not that he didnt have experience already with Formula one cars. In addition, and something that some Hamilton fans should take inton consideration, He came from GP2 (bridgestone) and Alonso had been under Michelin presence for a lot of years. Even the fastest ever Kimi had some problems with the tyres.

Lewis had almost zero experience of driving a F1 car prior to 2007, also GP2 cars ran on slicks whilst F1 at that time were on grooved tyres, totally different

#2186 Yorkie

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 21:00

*sigh* Lewis was testing the McLaren before Fernando was anywhere near it.

I think he had 1 or 2 test days, thats all

I'm sure that when you go and drive an F1 after you have been driving a GP2 car you should feel wonderful having that kind of downforce. I don't see a big achivement on it; we haven't got to see many good drivers getting to start in F1 in a car as competitive as 2007's McLaren.

I think the original plan was to place him in a midfield team, but Kimi signed up for Ferrari and Montoya resigned so the McLaren drive became available

#2187 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 21:01

*sigh* Lewis was testing the McLaren before Fernando was anywhere near it.

*sigh* Alonso was driving F1 cars when Hamilton was still in high school and doing karting.

#2188 Hole

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 21:01

Do people still believe the earth is flat as well?



Lewis had almost zero experience of driving a F1 car prior to 2007, also GP2 cars ran on slicks whilst F1 at that time were on grooved tyres, totally different


Saying it is totally diferent points out again the cinic tone of some around here.

And again, Hamilton was an open-wheel racer, so that he had no prio experience is mostly irrelevant. He had plenty of time for testing in the team that had boosted him since he was 12.

That excuse maybe useful if we talk about Rossi xD

Edited by AdamKOR, 08 July 2010 - 21:03.


#2189 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 21:03

I mean what it happened. Hamilton is a very good driver, but he has been helped by Ron for years. That's just what I mean. One has to be naive to see that as irrelevant.

So? Many young drivers are on schemes linked with F1 teams. Just look at how Red Bull run their young driver programs, helping to get drivers like Vettel.

#2190 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 21:04

You've got to be kidding. Hamilton fans flooding this thread bringing him (or Kimi) but according to you are Alonso fans who are obsessed with Hamilton :rotfl:


Cinism at its best.

Not cynicism, but pure hypocrisy.

Either way, lots of fanboy bullcrap from both sides in here

Edited by Seanspeed, 08 July 2010 - 21:05.


#2191 undersquare

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 21:06

I mean what it happened. Hamilton is a very good driver, but he has been helped by Ron for years. That's just what I mean. One has to be naive to see that as irrelevant.


Well Fernando was helped by the Renault Young Driver Programme for years.

Seems to me reading some of this thread Fernando has become defined by 2007 and Lewis Hamilton. And with the wailing over Valencia and the luck of the draw there he's still being defined by Hamilton.

#2192 toxicfusion

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 21:10

Seeing as this is the Fernando Alonso thread, was wondering if someone could help I'm looking for a picture from Valencia of Flavio and Fernando I've seen it around somewhere.

#2193 kryziuotis

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 22:54

Incidentally, the scores for my 11 races (FIA points) is 71 Hamilton, 68 Alonso. The scores for your 9 are: 70 Alonso, 63 Hamilton. Agin, I think this supports the "very matched pairing" view.

You see the main point there is that these 9 are not just my races - i.e. the races I feel fairly represents the drivers. This is simply the races without any major incidents affecting any of the driver. It's an attempt to objectively judge drivers performance, because you can objectively sort out was there some incident or not. But when you start to argue whose fault it was, and how it would have ended without it - it's already your subjective opinion. In fact you correctly pointed out Turkey as not being incident free, so its only 8 races left and the score 6:2. But all your other arguments don't question incident itself, but provide one or another reason to include this race anyway. And this is already not objective list of incident free races but your subjective list mostly favoring Hamilton :)

I could give similar arguments to include more races in Alonso favour. For example you exclude China because this is partially teams fault, but then include Spain. And the collision there was also partially Massas fault, because Alonso car was half in front of him and he had the right to take the corner. Then you include Japan, where the incident was at least partially Vettels fault (Hamilton had almost exact incident with Kubica and Kubica was punished for it) but then exclude Turkey where tyre problem was again at least partially Hamiltons fault. And if we start to exclude races because of the strategy or team allegedly favoring one driver or another - you can find excuse to exclude almost any race. For example there is much stronger argument to exclude US rather than Monaco, because teams strategy really changed the outcome there. Alonso was faster all the weekend, and only because Hamilton had one more lap to burn fuel in Q3 he took pole position and kept the lead despite Alonso staying on his tail all the race. And when the time came for Alonso to have the same advantage in Q3 in Hungary - we all know what happened. So going this way I could say that its 9:1 in Alonso favor, but its already view of Alonso fan.

Generally I agree that they were pretty evenly matched in 2007, yet Alonso still had more pace and Hamilton - more luck.

#2194 skid solo

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 00:54

*sigh* Lewis was testing the McLaren before Fernando was anywhere near it.


proof please

#2195 Galka

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 02:51

proof please

http://www.motorspor...w...=1&zsy=2006


#2196 kosmos

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 04:27

Seeing as this is the Fernando Alonso thread, was wondering if someone could help I'm looking for a picture from Valencia of Flavio and Fernando I've seen it around somewhere.



http://www.sutton-im...=d10eur1631.jpg

#2197 bonjon1979

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 06:00

Not always my favorite driver but top marks to nando in the press briefing. He and actually all of them seemed to handle the questions with remarkable humour htis week. Good stuff.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85083

#2198 skid solo

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:04

http://www.motorspor...w...=1&zsy=2006


That could say anything to me

#2199 Massacrator

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:07

Not always my favorite driver but top marks to nando in the press briefing. He and actually all of them seemed to handle the questions with remarkable humour htis week. Good stuff.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85083

Q. And the relationship with your team-mate?
MW: Sensational, amazing.

Q. We have heard this before.
MW: Yeah, it's a broken record.

Q. Fernando?
Fernando ALONSO: Very good as always.

Q. As always?
FA: Yes.

Q. You have always had a good relationship with your team-mate?
FA: Yes.

Q. Working relationship or...?
FA: Both.

Q. Lewis, would like to comment?
Lewis HAMILTON: About what?

Q. Team-mates. Previous team-mates even.
LH: I have had great team-mates and great relationships.


Pressowned!

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#2200 Mika Mika

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 08:34

Pressowned!


:up: :up: :up: :up: