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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#2401 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:32

I see YellowHelmet is workin overtime.

:rotfl:

just 1 more hour, than the final starts ;)

Alonso's hybris is largely his own creation, and at this rate he will completely destroy his own career and reputation. It's not about whether he can win the championship anymore, it's about whether he has a future in F1 after this. He might come out of it smelling roses, but it doesn't look too promising now.

sure he is destroying his image because he tries to overtake a car which in performance is very similar to his own in silverstone :drunk:

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#2402 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:33

Please discuss only the topic and not other posters.

#2403 wj_gibson

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:34

I think you're watching the wrong race or a race in a parellel dimension or simply just taking the mickey out.


Friendly suggestion - if you are keen to engage in a debate concerning a contentious chain of events, it would help matters if you avoided taking a patronising tone. Comments such as these are simply designed to invoke antagonism and do nothing to help matters.

As I said, I've watched the footage again a few times. Admittedly, the camera angles aren't great, but I see nothing to suggest that Massa was anything other than behind Alonso (albeit fractionally behind) when the contact occurred. Nor do I see any evidence of Alonso striking Massa's rear. I do, however, see Alonso overtaking Massa again into Vale, followed by clear evidence of Massa colliding with Barrichello moments later.

If you have a different chain of events then I'm all ears. But please, try to reduce the acerbic tone.

Just saying, like.

#2404 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:34

I see, you are changing the tune now. Nice try, but no, it doesn't imply anything and if he's saying it before every race this season as you stated, it wouldn't be dificult to find a quote, right ? I'm not holding my breath waiting for the quote.

sure it implies that
their electronical system can be used (within regulations) to have good starts, and they have managed to do so (as ms is saying!)

#2405 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:36

i never said they had a launch control!
i said within the regulations they are aware to have the best starts

Before you claimed that they have systems on their car that enable them to get better starts. The name for these systems are launch control systems. They are illegal, and have been for a couple of seasons now. Mercedes won't have them. I would love for you to provide the quote where MS says they have these kinds of systems in place.

#2406 cardin

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:36

sure it implies that
their electronical system can be used (within regulations) to have good starts, and they have managed to do so (as ms is saying!)


So, you are saying they built a better ecu(electronic control unit) ?

Edited by cardin, 11 July 2010 - 16:37.


#2407 AlanWake

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:36

Fernando Alonso, after the race: "WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP" :up:

#2408 kosmos

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:37

Despite the bad start, the Kubica incident and the late penalty, it's a pity that Kubica retired, Alonso lost a good amount of points because he couldn't fullfil the "normal penalty".

Edited by kosmos, 11 July 2010 - 16:43.


#2409 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:38

i am waiting for that interview to be printed.

You said he has mentioned it multiple times. I doubt this 'interview' will ever be printed :rolleyes: .

ms said their starts are the best (which implies their system is the best, whatever it is!)

No it doesn't. It simply means he has had good starts off the line. He has controlled the wheel spin well.

Edited by syph0nJZ05, 11 July 2010 - 16:39.


#2410 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:38

So, you are saying they built a better ecu(electronic control unit) ?

no, i am not saying anything in particular, i am saying that the electronics they have in car right now, can be used for starts too, how they do it is their secret, and as ms said mercedes is doing it best so far!

#2411 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:40

You said he has mentioned it multiple times. I doubt this 'interview' will ever be printed :rolleyes: .

dont loose your nerves!  ;)
there is plenty of time for that.


#2412 Jay

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:42

Fred is losing it.

I think he's an amazing driver. One of only a few who I think are top tier, but he is seriously crazy right now.

He was swamped at the start and then spent the racing like a headless chicken.

C'mon Fred, sort it out.

Edited by Jay, 11 July 2010 - 16:43.


#2413 AlanWake

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:42

Despite the bad start, the Kubica incident and the late penalty, it's a pity that Kubica retired, Alonso lost a good amount of points becuase he couldn't fullfil the "normal penalty".


Agreed, but his start dissappointed me too much :cry: :down: I expected better from him...

Edited by AlanWake, 11 July 2010 - 16:43.


#2414 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:44

sure it implies that
their electronical system can be used (within regulations) to have good starts, and they have managed to do so (as ms is saying!)

Do you know what standardised means?

#2415 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:45

no, i am not saying anything in particular...

I don't think you have a clue what your saying.

#2416 cardin

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:46

no, i am not saying anything in particular, i am saying that the electronics they have in car right now, can be used for starts too, how they do it is their secret, and as ms said mercedes is doing it best so far!

You do realise how infantile this sounds, right ? And yes, you're lying thru your teeth. No more waisting my time with you.

#2417 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:46

Do you know what standardised means?

sure i know! does that mean, that it works for every car the same, or are there differences in how to use it?

#2418 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:47

Agreed, but his start dissappointed me too much :cry: :down: I expected better from him...

He usually has excellent starts :up: .

#2419 Saturnus

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:47

Alonso and Ferrari need to start using their heads. Everybody knew that pass was illegal. Yes, Alonso had nowhere else to go, so nothing wrong with him taking the grass. He just should have given the position back.

Alonso's argument on the radio was that he had nowhere else to go, in other words he and Ferrari too knew the pass had been off-track. Why gamble it all when they knew this pass had a high risk of ending with a penalty?

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#2420 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:47

You do realise how infantile this sounds, right ? And yes, you're lying thru your teeth. No more waisting my time with you.

Stop with those accusations --> that is infantile :down:

#2421 AlanWake

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:52

He usually has excellent starts :up: .


And usually has poor starts too.

He seems unpredictable in his starts.

#2422 kosmos

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:52

Agreed, but his start dissappointed me too much :cry: :down: I expected better from him...



Yeah, I don't know what is the problem but Fernando is not driving like I was expecting. Look, he is doing great races when he have the chance, but when you don't have the best car of the grid, you have to do perfect races with zero mistakes, and that is not happening right now.

So far we have the crash on monaco and 3 start mistakes, a lot of point into the trash can, and this without talking about questionable steward decissions, team mistakes, and mechanical problems. The overall perfomance of the team is not there, and Felipe is not going to help to get any of the championships.




#2423 VicR

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 16:55

Friendly suggestion - if you are keen to engage in a debate concerning a contentious chain of events, it would help matters if you avoided taking a patronising tone. Comments such as these are simply designed to invoke antagonism and do nothing to help matters.

As I said, I've watched the footage again a few times. Admittedly, the camera angles aren't great, but I see nothing to suggest that Massa was anything other than behind Alonso (albeit fractionally behind) when the contact occurred. Nor do I see any evidence of Alonso striking Massa's rear. I do, however, see Alonso overtaking Massa again into Vale, followed by clear evidence of Massa colliding with Barrichello moments later.

If you have a different chain of events then I'm all ears. But please, try to reduce the acerbic tone.

Just saying, like.


OK, try and watch what happens, on Felipe's onboard, exactly after the first contact (Felipe's right front tyre against Alonso's left side of the cockpit). You can't see it but you can see the twitch in Felipe's car as his back makes contact to something. Now, what could that have been? Especially after that incident we can clearly see Felipe infront of Alonso. So what was it?

#2424 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:00

Yeah, I don't know what is the problem but Fernando is not driving like I was expecting. Look, he is doing great races when he have the chance, but when you don't have the best car of the grid, you have to do perfect races with zero mistakes, and that is not happening right now.

i am not sure if the bad start was all about him!
for perfect races you dont need bad luck, otherwise there are no perfect races!
if the winds of fortune just change a little bit, he will be winning again!

#2425 wj_gibson

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:01

OK, try and watch what happens, on Felipe's onboard, exactly after the first contact (Felipe's right front tyre against Alonso's left side of the cockpit). You can't see it but you can see the twitch in Felipe's car as his back makes contact to something. Now, what could that have been? Especially after that incident we can clearly see Felipe infront of Alonso. So what was it?


I disagree that it makes contact with anything at all, I think that's just an oversteer.

Indeed, if you watch the live feed (from the standard Becketts camera) you can clearly see that Massa's "twitch" is entirely self-imposed - nothing touches his car from behind at all, it's just an oversteer.

I think Massa's puncture was caused by the contact with Barrichello later in the lap.



#2426 Tifosi90

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:05

Friendly suggestion - if you are keen to engage in a debate concerning a contentious chain of events, it would help matters if you avoided taking a patronising tone. Comments such as these are simply designed to invoke antagonism and do nothing to help matters.

As I said, I've watched the footage again a few times. Admittedly, the camera angles aren't great, but I see nothing to suggest that Massa was anything other than behind Alonso (albeit fractionally behind) when the contact occurred. Nor do I see any evidence of Alonso striking Massa's rear. I do, however, see Alonso overtaking Massa again into Vale, followed by clear evidence of Massa colliding with Barrichello moments later.

If you have a different chain of events then I'm all ears. But please, try to reduce the acerbic tone.

Just saying, like.


Alonso caused the puncture that Massa suffered, and I am sure 110%. The reason why I am so sure is simply because when Massa & Alonso collided, Alonso was on the right hand side of Massa car. Massa had a right rear tyre puncture. When Barrichello battled with Massa at the hairpin, Barrichello dived inside of Massa, so he was on the left hand side of Massa car, so even if they did touch, there is no way that caused the rear right puncture since Barrichello was on the left. How can Barrichello cause a right rear puncture when he is on the wrong side of Massa's car? It's impossible.

#2427 VicR

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:08

I disagree that it makes contact with anything at all, I think that's just an oversteer.

Indeed, if you watch the live feed (from the standard Becketts camera) you can clearly see that Massa's "twitch" is entirely self-imposed - nothing touches his car from behind at all, it's just an oversteer.

I think Massa's puncture was caused by the contact with Barrichello later in the lap.


There really is no point in altering the truth. Why are you trying to do it? What's the point? To make Alonso look less worse today?

#2428 Anssi

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:08

Fernando Alonso, after the race: "WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP" :up:



Well, that's what Kimi Räikkönen kept saying last season, that they must not give up.

Ferrari then proceeded to exactly give up.

Kimi finished last season 6th. Now Alonso is 5th. Well, it's an improvement - I hope it was worth the money.

#2429 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:10

Kimi finished last season 6th. Now Alonso is 5th. Well, it's an improvement - I hope it was worth the money.

especially after alonso brought money to ferrari with some new sponsors?
for sure it is worth and it will be even more in some years, when alonso have won some titles with ferrari!

#2430 AlanWake

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:10

I am going to watch Netherlands vs Spain. May the best win, I just want to see a good match :)

#2431 wj_gibson

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:12

There really is no point in altering the truth. Why are you trying to do it? What's the point? To make Alonso look less worse today?


At this point in time, I'm not really a fan of any specific driver tbh.

But if we are so obsessed with the truth I suggest revisting the lap 1 feed. The "twitch" you discuss occurs independently. The visual evidence from the camera feed is absolutely conclusive on this.

Having read tifoso90's comments about the fact that Massa's puncture was on the right hand side, then yes I do think Massa's puncture occurred in the initial Alonso contact, but there is really no contact after that. At no point does Alonso hit Massa's rear. I'm sorry, but he really doesn't.

Anyway, this was nothing other than a racing incident IMO.

#2432 Anssi

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:18

Hey, someone is paying, I didn't specifically say who. I hope it is worth the money.

Of course Alonso needed a sponsor to pay Kimi off, otherwise he would be driving the Renault this year most likely and Kimi the Ferrari. Santander made the deal financially sensible to Ferrari, I have no doubt about that.

Santander shareholders must be very happy.


Edit: Oh, and I hope you notice my slightly sarcastic tone. Alonso is an excellent F1 driver, and Kimi is excellent, too.

Edited by Anssi, 11 July 2010 - 17:19.


#2433 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:21

You said he has mentioned it multiple times. I doubt this 'interview' will ever be printed :rolleyes: .

here is the interview with Schumacher

a quote out of that

Aber da haben die anderen Teams wohl etwas aufgeholt.

that means (approximate)" others have caught in that (meaning starts)", or something like others have improved their starts

#2434 kosmos

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:23

I made a horrible start - we had some problems with the clutch - and then came the incident with Kubica which further affected my race. I do not wish to comment on the Stewards’ decision. The team acted correctly but the instruction to hand back the position arrived when I had already passed another driver and in the meantime, Kubica was visibly slowing down before retiring. On top of that, the penalty coincided with the Safety Car and so, rather than just losing a couple of positions, I lost around a dozen. Even with my difficult start, I am convinced I could have finished third, but instead I go home with nothing. The championship situation is definitely looking more difficult, but we have only just gone past the halfway point of the season and anything can still happen. The car is better and I was flying when I had a clear track ahead of me: we must continue to work and believe in ourselves.”



#2435 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:25

as i said something in the starting system hasnt worked well (in that particular case it was the clutch!)

#2436 YellowHelmet

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:27

Alonso

And now after Silverstone, regardless of the points we have lost, the car was flying in the race, so now I believe I can win the title much more than I believed before.

:up:

#2437 kensaundm31

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:37

here is the interview with Schumacher

a quote out of that

that means (approximate)" others have caught in that (meaning starts)", or something like others have improved their starts


He says absolutely nothing that would make anyone think that they (Merc) or anyone else has traction control or any launch control systems.

He does mention starts but he mentions them as related to 'pilots' ie drivers. eg (driver skill)

You ever heard of the term 'ECU'?

Edited by kensaundm31, 11 July 2010 - 17:37.


#2438 VicR

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 17:40

At this point in time, I'm not really a fan of any specific driver tbh.

But if we are so obsessed with the truth I suggest revisting the lap 1 feed. The "twitch" you discuss occurs independently. The visual evidence from the camera feed is absolutely conclusive on this.

Having read tifoso90's comments about the fact that Massa's puncture was on the right hand side, then yes I do think Massa's puncture occurred in the initial Alonso contact, but there is really no contact after that. At no point does Alonso hit Massa's rear. I'm sorry, but he really doesn't.

Anyway, this was nothing other than a racing incident IMO.


See, now you're backpedaling. Why did you push your agenda in the first place?

Edited by VicR, 11 July 2010 - 17:40.


#2439 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:05

Martin Brundle alluded on the BBC F1 forum, that Alonso blocked Kubica from joining Ferrari. Coming from Brundle a man with impecable sources, if true what does this say about Alonso?

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#2440 Grenada

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:06

Martin Brundle alluded on the BBC F1 forum, that Alonso blocked Kubica from joining Ferrari. Coming from Brundle a man with impecable sources, if true what does this say about Alonso?



What we already knew - he hates a competitive teammate. That's why Massa's so popular.

#2441 Anomnader

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:06

Martin Brundle alluded on the BBC F1 forum, that Alonso blocked Kubica from joining Ferrari. Coming from Brundle a man with impecable sources, if true what does this say about Alonso?



Doesn't want two no1 drivers in the same team again, can't say I blame him.

#2442 Number62

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:07

as i said something in the starting system hasnt worked well


The right foot?

#2443 Flamini

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:10

The right foot?


Clutch problem, confirmed by Ferrari in press release.



#2444 meat

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:10

Oh man Alonso is failing badly race after race,whats up with him :eek: with this rate he will need a new job for next year...
Can´t help wondering does Luca still have Kimis phone number :rotfl:

Edited by meat, 11 July 2010 - 18:11.


#2445 Sammyosammy

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:12

Oh man Alonso is failing badly race after race,whats up with him :eek: with this rate he will need a new job for next year...
Can´t help wondering does Luca still have Kimis phone number :rotfl:


Too late for Luca, very too late. Kimi was on greens too many times in Bulgaria.. :wave:


#2446 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:14

here is the interview with Schumacher

a quote out of that

that means (approximate)" others have caught in that (meaning starts)", or something like others have improved their starts

OK, so from that you assumed that Mercedes had illegally changed the standardised ECU on their car and essentially added a launch control system? Well done you :rolleyes: .

#2447 Tstag

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:19

Interesting to note how Hamilton has responded to the presence of Button versus the way Alonso reacted to Hamilton. I thought it very revealing today that Hamilton said it was a good result for Mclaren and that Button drove well to grab 4th for the TEAM.

Could you imagine if Alonso had Button as his team mate? Despite the fact that Button's possibly one of the nicest guy's in F1 I don't think he could cope if Button beat him.

I genuinely think Mclaren are the most 'together' team in F1. And that togetherness may give the both the Constructors and the WC.

#2448 Macs

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:33

What we already knew - he hates a competitive teammate. That's why Massa's so popular.


:up: :up: :up: :up:

So true. Someone needs to tell Massa's fans not to have great expectations from him

#2449 ZooL

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 18:38

Interesting to note how Hamilton has responded to the presence of Button versus the way Alonso reacted to Hamilton. I thought it very revealing today that Hamilton said it was a good result for Mclaren and that Button drove well to grab 4th for the TEAM.

Could you imagine if Alonso had Button as his team mate? Despite the fact that Button's possibly one of the nicest guy's in F1 I don't think he could cope if Button beat him.

I genuinely think Mclaren are the most 'together' team in F1. And that togetherness may give the both the Constructors and the WC.


What's interesting is how Hamilton had to accept a WDC as his new teamate while Alonso blocked Kubica joining Ferrari.

#2450 wj_gibson

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 19:22

See, now you're backpedaling. Why did you push your agenda in the first place?


Evidence?

I always thought this was a racing incident. I happen to think it was more Massa's fault, but it's still a racing incident.

Of course, if you have a need always to "win" an argument then feel free to use nonsense terms such as "backpedalling". I know that I have out-argued you comprehensively here, and you have completely ignored the fact that Massa was not hit from behind by Alonso.