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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#2451 VicR

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 19:27

Evidence?

I always thought this was a racing incident. I happen to think it was more Massa's fault, but it's still a racing incident.

Of course, if you have a need always to "win" an argument then feel free to use nonsense terms such as "backpedalling". I know that I have out-argued you comprehensively here, and you have completely ignored the fact that Massa was not hit from behind by Alonso.


From the horse's mouth...

Felipe Massa - 15th: "I don't know what to do, but I have to find some way of getting rid of the bad luck that is following me around! In the last few races, everything has happened to me. Today my race was soon over, when I touched with Fernando and got a puncture which dropped me to the back of the pack. The car was going well, but that's not much use if you cannot get a result. The championship is not over after this race, but clearly my situation is compromised: I would need to win a lot of races while others run into the same difficulties that have come my way in recent races. However, we must not give up: we will keep our heads high and continue to push on the development of the car and then see what results come our way."


The end, OK? You said it was Rubens but it was Alonso.

Edited by VicR, 11 July 2010 - 19:28.


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#2452 Tstag

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 22:19

What's interesting is how Hamilton had to accept a WDC as his new teamate while Alonso blocked Kubica joining Ferrari.


Well Mclaren are about the team not about the driver it seems. Ferrari should never allow a driver like Alonso to determine who his team mate is.

I'm actually sick of Alonso, all he does is cry and moan all the time. He arguably has the second fastest car on the grid yet today both Mclaren were quicker.... again! This whole season Alonso has largely failed to deliver. Most over rated driver in the world anyone?

Compare and contrast Hamilton. He arguable has the weaker car but boy can he drive it.

#2453 Buttoneer

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 22:43

Posts deleted. Please cut out the trolling.

#2454 Hairpin

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 23:03

Martin Brundle alluded on the BBC F1 forum, that Alonso blocked Kubica from joining Ferrari. Coming from Brundle a man with impecable sources, if true what does this say about Alonso?

Nothing that has not already been said. Ferrari is going backwards though, one must wonder how long they will care about what Alonso are saying.

#2455 Anssi

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 23:14

So the word is now that Alonso tried to block Lewis Hamilton racing for McLaren in 2007 but that he has blocked Robert Kubica racing for Ferrari from 2011 and onwards?

I don't know if those are true stories, but if yes, then Fernando Alonso must be one weak character who really wants to make sure he has a team-mate that absolute does not bother him.

This is in great contrast to one certain Kimi Räikkönen who has over and over again said he does not care at all who his team-mate is. In 2005 he said he wouldn't mind being in the same team with Fernando Alonso, by the way. Yes, I give Kimi more respect for his attitude. It is obvious to me which one of these guys has more self-confidence and a strong mind in general.

OK, let's cool down a bit - maybe it's all lies that Fernando has tried to manipulate his team's decision on the other driver. But I have to say the evidence that exists and is true does support this theory.

Fernando, why are you being so insecure, you really don't have to!

Edited by Anssi, 11 July 2010 - 23:17.


#2456 Hairpin

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 23:18

We know what happened to Trulli when he got close. Wham!
Whatever. It is his right to ask. It is the teams right to ignore or listen. If Alonso want to be the sole deliverer, he must start delivering.

#2457 Buttoneer

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 23:23

Please use the appropriate thread in the Paddock Club to discuss football.

#2458 Yorkie

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 00:18

OK, try and watch what happens, on Felipe's onboard, exactly after the first contact (Felipe's right front tyre against Alonso's left side of the cockpit). You can't see it but you can see the twitch in Felipe's car as his back makes contact to something. Now, what could that have been? Especially after that incident we can clearly see Felipe infront of Alonso. So what was it?

As a nuetral observer, Massa hit Alonso

Martin Brundle alluded on the BBC F1 forum, that Alonso blocked Kubica from joining Ferrari. Coming from Brundle a man with impecable sources, if true what does this say about Alonso?

That doesnt surprise me, i imagine that Alonso is quite comfortable having Massa as his teammate

#2459 ViMaMo

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 01:36

Ferrari are running low on luck. This is precisely the time when someone should pull off a miracle- either the drivers, or the team.

Seems like neither are doing it. This was what Schumacher used to do.

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#2460 TurboF1

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 04:31

This mistake prone version of Alonso is not one im used to seeing. 2004,5,6,7 and even 2008 (esp 2nd half) he drove very very consistently. 2009 I didnt notice, but thats because the renault was such crap I didnt pay attention much (even then he stuck it on pole at hungary and podiumed at singapore)

But whats happened to him? Italian/Spanish media expectations getting to him? It's not his teammate, he's got Massa comfortably covered. Is it the weight of Ferrari, the fact that they bought/pushed out Kimi for this guy and he's doing arguably no better with a front running car?

Australia- crashed into Button at T1, ended up last. fought back to 4th. (Couldve been much higher, wasn't due to t1 incident)

China- Jumped the start, got a drive through, fought back to 4th (nobodies fault but his own)

Monaco- Put himself out of qualifying by smashing his car in practice, (Nobodies fault but his own)

Turkey- Didnt get thru to q3, lost it all under braking at the end of the back straight, his teammate clearly showing it was in top 8 based on Q pace. (nobodies fault but his own)

Canada- Not once, but TWICE he got passed by McLarens because he got caught napping behind backmarkers. (Nobodies fault but his OWN)

Valencia- Lost focus fuming about other teams when, as his race engineer told him, he shouldve been "calm & wise" & "needed to look towards himself" but instead got passed by Kobayashi at the end. Yes, KK had better tires, But for a driver of Fernandos skill, he had no business being passed by a Sauber on a track that is basically impossible to pass at. Nobodies fault but his own.

Silverstone- Piss poor start (I don't buy the clutch fault problem bs, based on his onboard he got a bad start by putting too much right foot in it) I heard gobs of wheelspin, just like Vettel. Hit his teammate going into the maggots/becketts complex. Passes Kubica off track, Should have the mental acuity to KNOW that he shouldve given the place back straight away and tried again 2+ corners later, but didnt. He was going to pass Kubica anyway! Got a drive through, tried to fight back, went off the road, ended up 15th.

There's a few races where he didnt deliver that were not his fault, for instance Malaysia wasnt his fault, he drove beautifully while having a wicked gearbox problem, and even passed Jenson with an ailing car, but, All in all, This is NOT the Fernando Alonso I've watched over the last few years. Something is different about him now. His inconsistency is abnormal based on previous performance. If he ain't on the podium come Hockenheim in too weeks and the red bulls/McLarens are, He's done for as far as this years WDC is concerned. A real shame if you ask me. There are times when you can't help but be impressed by Fernando, but this year i'm not getting that same vibe. All these mistakes do not add up to winning a championship come years end. Thats for sure.

Edited by TurboF1, 12 July 2010 - 04:35.


#2461 David Ricardo

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 05:46

China- Jumped the start, got a drive through, fought back to 4th (nobodies fault but his own)

Monaco- Put himself out of qualifying by smashing his car in practice, (Nobodies fault but his own)

I am ok with this.


Now, for the rest of your appreciations:

Australia
It was a racing incident. No one to blame for the crash.

Turkey-
Massa qualified better because this is one of his favourite tracks. Also, Felipe chose to set his car so he could do a faster qualifying and then suffer during the race. Alonso chose opposite strategy and, as expected, showed much better race pace.

Canada-
Trulli didn´t let Alonso pass inmediately because he wasn´t shown blue flags. Also, the way Alonso found Chandok out of that turn was really unlucky and helped Button pass.

Valencia-
If Alonso hadn´t got out of the way, Kobayashi would have probably crashed against him, so Alonso was as wise as it gets in that situation.

Silverstone-
I accept he should have given back the position to Kubica. But at the start, everybody in the clean side had problems. I didn´t see the race, but I was told in GP2 it was the same and it could be because a car blew his engine and could have leaked some oil over grid positions 5 - 3 - 1.

Edited by David Ricardo, 12 July 2010 - 05:47.


#2462 velgajski1

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 07:32

This mistake prone version of Alonso is not one im used to seeing. 2004,5,6,7 and even 2008 (esp 2nd half) he drove very very consistently. 2009 I didnt notice, but thats because the renault was such crap I didnt pay attention much (even then he stuck it on pole at hungary and podiumed at singapore)


2004-2006, I agree, but reality is that:
in 2004. he didn't have that pressure - he was just a talented youngster usually rated lower than Kimi for example, in 2005. they simply knew they are the fastest after completely unreliable McLaren and that they only need to stay behind Kimi in each race and wait for his car to fail. 2006. was his best season so far, bit cracking under pressure when his car broke down, but not showing it on track.

2007. first signs of real cracking under pressure, some races were very bad for him while his rookie teammate took much more points home. usually blamed the equipment and that certianly didn't help with being likened by the team. later in season completely fell apart with his team as he felt helpless against quick teammate.
2008. full of mistakes/racing incidents in first half of season (when he still thought that wdc is possible), much better in second part when pressure was off though
2009. pretty good driving but again with no pressure in weak Renault
2010. pressure is back and so are the errors. i have a feeling that he is slowly alienating himself even in Ferrari now. to be fair, he is also a bit unlucky this season but not too much actually. there were some lucky situations for him earlier at the season.

Generally, this guy needs to work on his approach and attitude before its too late. He is fast as ever but F1 is not a sprint competition. I predict stronger Alonso in second part of season, especially if he fells out of contention for WDC completely.

Edited by velgajski1, 12 July 2010 - 07:35.


#2463 kosmos

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:38

Chat with Alonso today on Ferrari.com.

http://www.ferrari.c...Pages/chat.aspx



#2464 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 09:40

OK, so from that you assumed that Mercedes had illegally changed the standardised ECU on their car and essentially added a launch control system? Well done you :rolleyes: .

:drunk: Who said that? I Said their starting System with all legal Electronics is working best, as ms is saying! nothimg to do with anything illegal! I Never Said they are using anything illegal, so don't say this!

#2465 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 13:19

:drunk: Who said that? I Said their starting System with all legal Electronics is working best, as ms is saying! nothimg to do with anything illegal! I Never Said they are using anything illegal, so don't say this!

As has been explained to you by many people: the ECU is standardised. They can't have a 'better one' without cheating.

#2466 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 13:24

As has been explained to you by many people: the ECU is standardised. They can't have a 'better one' without cheating.

sure they can, because starts are not only about stanardised ECU!
it is a system in which different parts are involved: ecu, clutch, gear setup and some more parts (which contributes to mechanical grip)

#2467 David Ricardo

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:02

Alonso will be answering questions from ferrari.com premium users (aka not me) right now.

http://eventi-online....com/videochat/

#2468 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:08

Alonso will be answering questions from ferrari.com premium users (aka not me) right now.

http://eventi-online....com/videochat/

thanks man :up:

#2469 kosmos

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:11

Starting now, is a video chat like the other times?.

#2470 David Ricardo

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:16

Yellowhelmet You are welcome :up:

Starting now, is a video chat like the other times?.

It looks like it is.

#2471 meat

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:21

This mistake prone version of Alonso is not one im used to seeing. 2004,5,6,7 and even 2008 (esp 2nd half) he drove very very consistently. 2009 I didnt notice, but thats because the renault was such crap I didnt pay attention much (even then he stuck it on pole at hungary and podiumed at singapore)

But whats happened to him? Italian/Spanish media expectations getting to him? It's not his teammate, he's got Massa comfortably covered. Is it the weight of Ferrari, the fact that they bought/pushed out Kimi for this guy and he's doing arguably no better with a front running car?

Australia- crashed into Button at T1, ended up last. fought back to 4th. (Couldve been much higher, wasn't due to t1 incident)

China- Jumped the start, got a drive through, fought back to 4th (nobodies fault but his own)

Monaco- Put himself out of qualifying by smashing his car in practice, (Nobodies fault but his own)

Turkey- Didnt get thru to q3, lost it all under braking at the end of the back straight, his teammate clearly showing it was in top 8 based on Q pace. (nobodies fault but his own)

Canada- Not once, but TWICE he got passed by McLarens because he got caught napping behind backmarkers. (Nobodies fault but his OWN)

Valencia- Lost focus fuming about other teams when, as his race engineer told him, he shouldve been "calm & wise" & "needed to look towards himself" but instead got passed by Kobayashi at the end. Yes, KK had better tires, But for a driver of Fernandos skill, he had no business being passed by a Sauber on a track that is basically impossible to pass at. Nobodies fault but his own.

Silverstone- Piss poor start (I don't buy the clutch fault problem bs, based on his onboard he got a bad start by putting too much right foot in it) I heard gobs of wheelspin, just like Vettel. Hit his teammate going into the maggots/becketts complex. Passes Kubica off track, Should have the mental acuity to KNOW that he shouldve given the place back straight away and tried again 2+ corners later, but didnt. He was going to pass Kubica anyway! Got a drive through, tried to fight back, went off the road, ended up 15th.

There's a few races where he didnt deliver that were not his fault, for instance Malaysia wasnt his fault, he drove beautifully while having a wicked gearbox problem, and even passed Jenson with an ailing car, but, All in all, This is NOT the Fernando Alonso I've watched over the last few years. Something is different about him now. His inconsistency is abnormal based on previous performance. If he ain't on the podium come Hockenheim in too weeks and the red bulls/McLarens are, He's done for as far as this years WDC is concerned. A real shame if you ask me. There are times when you can't help but be impressed by Fernando, but this year i'm not getting that same vibe. All these mistakes do not add up to winning a championship come years end. Thats for sure.



No better than Kimi... He is doing lot worse. I have never seen any top driver to make this many mistakes race after race. :rotfl:
He really has to get his act together fast, or soon everybody in the paddocs starts to laugh at him.He still has time,its only mid season.

#2472 AlanWake

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:21

He seems calm and confident on the chat.

#2473 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:26

sure they can, because starts are not only about stanardised ECU!
it is a system in which different parts are involved: ecu, clutch, gear setup and some more parts (which contributes to mechanical grip)

How long have you been watching F1?

#2474 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:33

How long have you been watching F1?

stop repeating this bullshit and raise your game! :down:

if you want to disagree on that, then say why, but stop posting such posts :down:

Edited by YellowHelmet, 12 July 2010 - 15:35.


#2475 kosmos

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:33

From Hamilton, Vettel and Schumi, Schumi is his favourite :cat:

#2476 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:38

good interview!

a pity that you have to have a premium membership to post questions!

anyway, thx for the link, it was a pleasure to see him so calm and confident for the next races!

#2477 AlanWake

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:40

From Hamilton, Vettel and Schumi, Schumi is his favourite :cat:


I believe he admires M.Schumacher too much.

I really doubt Hamilton could beat Schumi at his best.

#2478 kosmos

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:42

Love this kind of stuff, other teams should do it. Despite the Spanish team win he looks a little sad, normally he is a calm and serious but this time he was a little sad. Not blaming him, this are hard times for the team.

I believe he admires M.Schumacher too much.

I really doubt Hamilton could beat Schumi at his best.



I don't think he admires Schumi, he respect everything he has achieved in F1 but nothing more, at least that's what I get after dozens of interviews in Spanish over the years.

Edited by kosmos, 12 July 2010 - 15:47.


#2479 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:44

stop repeating this bullshit and raise your game! :down:

if you want to disagree on that, then say why, but stop posting such posts :down:

OK, I'll ask you to post some evidence showing that Mercedes are running an electronic system to aid them in better starts. And by the way that quote of Schumi's doesn't show that at all.

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#2480 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:45

this are hard times for the team.

but they will improve with that experience.
i am looking for the next two races: they should fit the ferrari, coz they are more about mechanical than aerodynamic grip!

#2481 AlanWake

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:46

Love this kind of stuff, other teams should do it. Despite the Spanish team win he looks a little sad, normally he is a calm and serious but this time he was a little sad. Not blaming him, this are hard times for the team.


I don't see him happy neither. Serious, calm and confident, similar to Kimi :cool:

#2482 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 15:47

OK, I'll ask you to post some evidence showing that Mercedes are running an electronic system to aid them in better starts. And by the way that quote of Schumi's doesn't show that at all.

again i ask you, why should i post something which i am not claiming that is true :drunk:
i said their starting system (involving all the things that is needed for a good start, clutch, ecu, gear setup and all other things that contribute to mechanical grip), as ms is saying is the best!


#2483 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:07

again i ask you, why should i post something which i am not claiming that is true :drunk:

"the starts are up to electronics and not to drivers"..."they have systems which help with starts, as ms is always stating!".

I was responding to these posts of yours. From them I took it that you meant Mercedes are using some sort of electronic system to control their starts, different to everyone else. Because it seems you think the drivers don't have a significant input into starts - but of course you are wrong as they have to mange the starts manually now letting the clutch out and controlling wheel spin.

#2484 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:11

"the starts are up to electronics and not to drivers"..."they have systems which help with starts, as ms is always stating!".

I was responding to these posts of yours. From them I took it that you meant Mercedes are using some sort of electronic system to control their starts, different to everyone else. Because it seems you think the drivers don't have a significant input into starts - but of course you are wrong as they have to mange the starts manually now letting the clutch out and controlling wheel spin.

the first one was frouzy expressed (my bad), as you proved, from then on i used the right word, their starting system (which includes many things and not just electronics) is the best as ms is saying.
a driver has to control the starts more than in past that is true, but still there is a system behind those starts!
and if a part doesnt work rightly in that system (whether it is the driver, the clutch, the ecu or anythings else) the starts are not good.
and it looks as if mercedes has the best system! (not my words, those words are from ms!)



#2485 Clatter

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:16

the first one was frouzy expressed (my bad), as you proved, from then on i used the right word, their starting system (which includes many things and not just electronics) is the best as ms is saying.
a driver has to control the starts more than in past that is true, but still there is a system behind those starts!
and if a part doesnt work rightly in that system (whether it is the driver, the clutch, the ecu or anythings else) the starts are not good.
and it looks as if mercedes has the best system! (not my words, those words are from ms!)


And how many cars on the grid has MS driven to make this comparison?

#2486 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:18

And how many cars on the grid has MS driven to make this comparison?

not my interest! but if ms is saying that, than i dont think he made this up!
i think that is just a conclusion of his experience in this year!

#2487 Clatter

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:22

not my interest! but if ms is saying that, than i dont think he made this up!
i think that is just a conclusion of his experience in this year!


I don't think he could possibly know and I have not noticed anything particularly special about the Merc starts to give that impression.

#2488 David Ricardo

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:22

No better than Kimi... He is doing lot worse. I have never seen any top driver to make this many mistakes race after race. :rotfl:
He really has to get his act together fast, or soon everybody in the paddocs starts to laugh at him.He still has time,its only mid season.

He was only responsible for China and Monaco. The rest of the quote is deeply biased and fails to tell the truth.


#2489 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:23

I don't think he could possibly know and I have not noticed anything particularly special about the Merc starts to give that impression.

but he did, and so he said that!

#2490 Clatter

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:23

but he did, and so he said that!


Got a link then?

#2491 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:26

Got a link then?

see last page, post 4!
(but it is in german, i translated a part of it (approximately!))

#2492 kensaundm31

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:27

He says absolutely nothing that would make anyone think that they (Merc) or anyone else has traction control or any launch control systems.

He does mention starts but he mentions them as related to 'pilots' ie drivers. eg (driver skill)

You ever heard of the term 'ECU'?


I'm no expert but the only thing that can help with starts that isn't electronically controlled is engine driveability in the low range.

Edited by kensaundm31, 12 July 2010 - 16:31.


#2493 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:31

no he is not talking about drivers skills!
he talks about that merc had better starts in the past, but that other teams have closed the gap on that! so they just could just improve 1 place (due to better start) in this race!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 12 July 2010 - 16:31.


#2494 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:33

I'm no expert but the only thing that can help with starts that isn't electronically controlled is engine driveability in the low range.

mechanical grip, which is important for starts is very complex and cant be summed up on just two things!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 12 July 2010 - 16:33.


#2495 kensaundm31

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:33

no he is not talking about drivers skills!
he talks about that merc had better starts in the past, but that other teams have closed the gap on that! so they just could just improve 1 place (due to better start) in this race!


Yes he is talking about starts as in relation to drivers.


OK you're incapable of admitting you are wrong.

Fine, w/e.

#2496 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:35

Yes he is talking about starts as in relation to drivers.

no he is comapring teams and not drivers!

if you speak german than you must know what that means "Aber da haben die anderen Teams wohl etwas aufgeholt"



OK you're incapable of admitting you are wrong.

always will be when i am wrong!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 12 July 2010 - 16:39.


#2497 cardin

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:35

He says absolutely nothing that would make anyone think that they (Merc) or anyone else has traction control or any launch control systems.

He does mention starts but he mentions them as related to 'pilots' ie drivers. eg (driver skill)

You ever heard of the term 'ECU'?


Thank you for checking on it. I'm not surprised the quotes were grossly misrepresented.

Edited by cardin, 12 July 2010 - 16:35.


#2498 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:37

Thank you for checking on it. I'm not surprised the quotes were grossly misrepresented.

nothing was misinterpreted.
michael said "Aber da haben die anderen Teams wohl etwas aufgeholt"
but the other teams have improved on that
and not other drivers have improved on that!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 12 July 2010 - 16:38.


#2499 Clatter

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:41

see last page, post 4!
(but it is in german, i translated a part of it (approximately!))


I don't see anything there that says Merc has the best system, nor does it say what teams he is refering to with the caught up line.

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#2500 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:46

I don't see anything there that says Merc has the best system,

what else can he mean?

nor does it say what teams he is refering to with the caught up line.

yes, he didnt mention teams in specific but he said other teams have improved on that!