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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#2501 kensaundm31

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:47

nothing was misinterpreted.
michael said "Aber da haben die anderen Teams wohl etwas aufgeholt"
but the other teams have improved on that
and not other drivers have improved on that!


That was the last sentence in a paragrapgh that was talking about the starts as in relation to Mercedes pilots.

No way is that article proof. You're just clutching at straws.

I am not going to waste anymore time with you.

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#2502 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:49

I am not going to waste anymore time with you.

no one is asking for that!


hat was the last sentence in a paragrapgh that was talking about the starts as in relation to Mercedes pilots.

in that paragraph michael said that he just could overtake one driver when starting, (he expected more) and so he comes to the conclusion that other teams have improved on that.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 12 July 2010 - 16:54.


#2503 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:53

the first one was frouzy expressed (my bad), as you proved, from then on i used the right word, their starting system (which includes many things and not just electronics) is the best as ms is saying.
a driver has to control the starts more than in past that is true, but still there is a system behind those starts!
and if a part doesnt work rightly in that system (whether it is the driver, the clutch, the ecu or anythings else) the starts are not good.
and it looks as if mercedes has the best system! (not my words, those words are from ms!)

So my original reply, which you argued against :rolleyes: , was correct: "Of course the car and track conditions can factor into the starts, but it is mainly down to the drivers.".

Previously you argued in a way which made it very clear that all you thought happened at the start was that the drivers released the clutch instantaneously as soon as they saw the lights go out. I'm glad you have now mentioned the driver as actually having a role in the start. But next time instead of changing your argument over a period of time, just admit you were wrong and be done. People would think more of you.



#2504 Buttoneer

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:54

Mercedes start systems are really off topic here. Please either relate them to Alonso or take the discussion to the Mercedes thread. Thank you.

#2505 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:57

OK you're incapable of admitting you are wrong.

He originally claimed the driver had no part in the start. IMO he thought launch control system were still allowed, once we made it clear that was not the case he changed his argument. Essentially he cannot admit he is wrong, even when it is obvious to everyone he is. But he says he is objective :rolleyes: .

#2506 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 16:57

So my original reply, which you argued against :rolleyes: , was correct: "Of course the car and track conditions can factor into the starts, but it is mainly down to the drivers.".

Previously you argued in a way which made it very clear that all you thought happened at the start was that the drivers released the clutch instantaneously as soon as they saw the lights go out. I'm glad you have now mentioned the driver as actually having a role in the start. But next time instead of changing your argument over a period of time, just admit you were wrong and be done. People would think more of you.

i wasnt wrong :drunk:
there is a starting system behind the starts, that is rightm and there are differences in start performances between teams --> that is also true!

the only thing i frouzy expressed is that i didnt mention all the things which contributes to mechanical grip (and first just mentioning electronics!), but that doesnt mean that all teams have the same possibility of making a very good start, some teams are better in that and some are worser.

#2507 YellowHelmet

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 17:00

He originally claimed the driver had no part in the start. IMO he thought launch control system were still allowed, once we made it clear that was not the case he changed his argument. Essentially he cannot admit he is wrong, even when it is obvious to everyone he is. But he says he is objective :rolleyes: .

i frouzy expressed myself!
but even with launch control drivers contributed to a good start!
so by saying drivers have no effect on starts is just a frouzy way to say, that it is not all about drivers. for a good start the whole system must function if not there we have a bad start.

Edited by YellowHelmet, 12 July 2010 - 17:01.


#2508 buffbuff

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 17:10

I believe he admires M.Schumacher too much.

I really doubt Hamilton could beat Schumi at his best.


Then from what you are saying, Alonso did not beat Schumi as his best in 2005 or 2006 either.

#2509 Katsumi

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 17:59

but they will improve with that experience.
i am looking for the next two races: they should fit the ferrari, coz they are more about mechanical than aerodynamic grip!


:rolleyes: ... Valencia & Silverstone fitted Ferrari too.

#2510 kensaundm31

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 23:58

Here's Alonso's Valencia experience in movie pictures:

FA: 'What position was Hamilton in before the penalty?
PIT: 'second'

Posted Image


FA: 'What position was Hamilton in after the penalty?
PIT: '...second'

Posted Image



Wow, doesnt Alonso look like Adam Goldberg!?

Posted Image




#2511 kosmos

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 04:27

From Ferrari.com:

and our driver made that very clear to all the team on his slowing down lap after taking the chequered flag.

“OK guys, keep your heads up, heads up. We will win the championship,” said Fernando over the radio. “We are only halfway through the season and there is plenty of time to recover. We have a great car and we proved that to everyone this weekend and confirmed it with this fastest race lap. It is only the first half and we know we have to do better in the second one and we will do exactly that. Well done all of you for this weekend: whatever the result, we have done a good job. Come on! There’s plenty of time to catch up.”

Then came the reply from his race engineer, Andrea Stella, who certainly summed up the feelings of the whole team:

“Don’t worry, no one is giving up. We are all behind you, we want the same thing and we will fight right to the end to get it.”


Kudos to Alonso and Ferrari. :up:



Yesterdays video chat is available in 4 videos on Ferrari.com.

http://www.ferrari.c...hat_alonso.aspx




#2512 Vesuvius

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 06:56

From Ferrari.com:



Kudos to Alonso and Ferrari. :up:



Yesterdays video chat is available in 4 videos on Ferrari.com.

http://www.ferrari.c...hat_alonso.aspx



good luck for them, it's gonna be needed! fastest lap was done in fresh tyres and only a small tank of fuel so their true pace was no where near of that, they don't have the pace of Redbull or McLaren but are not too far away, Alonso will just have to stop making mistakes and he will get points, I doubt he will have a chance for the title.

#2513 seahawk

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 06:59

Alonso seems to have lost his connection to reality. The titles are lost.

#2514 Brandz07

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 07:01

Alonso seems to have lost his connection to reality. The titles are lost.

:up:


#2515 Vesuvius

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 07:05

Alonso is lucky that he still even have a chance for the title as Redbull has lost like 3-5 wins this season for many reasons.

#2516 man

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 07:12

I said this before... Alonso really does seem a different man to 2006. Back then he seemed philosophical, cool and calm. He beat the dominant Ferrari team in the hands if M Schumacher in style with back to back titles and he looked like a driver without peers. But his reputation has taken a kicking since 2007 and it is all through his own making. So many mistakes and ott emotional behaviour and comments hot and cold. I believe psychologically he took a battering when he witnessed first and the pace of Hamilton in his rookie season and cannot and has not got over it to this day. The sad thing is he is a much better driver than he appear to be. If he could just settle down mentally and focus on the job his ability will carry him through and make him a strong contender more times than not. His thrashing of Massa is not going by unnoticed.

#2517 Arion

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 07:35

Some posters on PF1 think Alonso needs someone like Flavio to calm him down. All teams have their own politics, I don't think any other team would suit him as well as Renault.

#2518 Tactical

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 07:46

Alonso seems to have lost his connection to reality. The titles are lost.


No, he's just a real competitor, in his first year with his new team, motivating them and himself too.

Something any simple basher like you will try to twist, again. Keep trying.

Cheers.

#2519 meat

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 07:53

No, he's just a real competitor, in his first year with his new team, motivating them and himself too.

Something any simple basher like you will try to twist, again. Keep trying.

Cheers.


We don´t have to try. Alonso is making this very easy for us :rotfl:
His predecessor won wdc in his first year in new team..
Alonso still has a chance,if he gets his shit together and fast. But even you must admit that so far he has driven like a rookie and not like a real competitor. :down:

Alonso has 2nd/3rd best car on the grid. He complains about everything on Earth except his own insane mistakes :down:

Edited by meat, 13 July 2010 - 07:59.


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#2520 undersquare

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 08:03

Some posters on PF1 think Alonso needs someone like Flavio to calm him down. All teams have their own politics, I don't think any other team would suit him as well as Renault.


There is an awful lot on his shoulders at Ferrari isn't there? The leadership thing. In Renault at least Flav and Pat were in charge.

#2521 AlanWake

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 08:03

Then from what you are saying, Alonso did not beat Schumi as his best in 2005 or 2006 either.


No way. Alonso beat Schumi at his best. I really doubt Hamilton could have done the same.



#2522 AlanWake

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 08:06

No, he's just a real competitor, in his first year with his new team, motivating them and himself too.

Something any simple basher like you will try to twist, again. Keep trying.

Cheers.


You know everything Alonso says is always wrong :wave:

#2523 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 08:14

No way. Alonso beat Schumi at his best. I really doubt Hamilton could have done the same.


Well Hamilton took on the man who beat Schumi according to you, when he was at his best and beat him in his rookie year. Thats one to think over. :rolleyes:

#2524 Jordana

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 08:18

Well Hamilton took on the man who beat Schumi according to you, when he was at his best and beat him in his rookie year. Thats one to think over. :rolleyes:



That's a good one! :clap:

#2525 Arion

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 08:22

Forget about Schumacher, now a certain Nico Rosberg can claim to have beaten Schumacher in equal machinery. Beating Schumacher doesn't mean as much as it used to be.

#2526 AlanWake

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 09:26

Well Hamilton took on the man who beat Schumi according to you, when he was at his best and beat him in his rookie year. Thats one to think over. :rolleyes:


Alonso wasn't at his best in 2007. He wasn't comfortable with his team.

Do you really think Hamilton would have beaten the Alonso of 2006? Alonso was epic that year.

#2527 undersquare

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 09:31

Alonso wasn't at his best in 2007. He wasn't comfortable with his team.

Do you really think Hamilton would have beaten the Alonso of 2006? Alonso was epic that year.


If Hamilton hadn't been his teammate you'd have been saying Alonso was epic in 2007 :p .

This comfort thing is nonsense anyway, he was behind after the first 4 races. And look at Webber, a bit of aggro in the team hasn't turned him into a hapless victim has it?

#2528 Hairpin

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 09:49

I said this before... Alonso really does seem a different man to 2006. Back then he seemed philosophical, cool and calm. He beat the dominant Ferrari team in the hands if M Schumacher in style with back to back titles and he looked like a driver without peers. But his reputation has taken a kicking since 2007 and it is all through his own making. So many mistakes and ott emotional behaviour and comments hot and cold. I believe psychologically he took a battering when he witnessed first and the pace of Hamilton in his rookie season and cannot and has not got over it to this day. The sad thing is he is a much better driver than he appear to be. If he could just settle down mentally and focus on the job his ability will carry him through and make him a strong contender more times than not. His thrashing of Massa is not going by unnoticed.

Ironically, I think the Spanish media have made Alonso a lesser driver, and lesser man, than he was in 2006. During the famous 2007 battle with Hamilton, the Spanish media blamed McLaren and Hamilton for everything that went bad. They made a martyr out of Alonso and he took that role. The innocent victim, the poor guy that was fighting, not only Hamilton, not only Ron and McLaren, no he was fighting the whole Great Britain!

Saint Alonso played the role well. But he is stuck in it.

#2529 Mr j

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 10:01

Alonso wasn't at his best in 2007. He wasn't comfortable with his team.

Do you really think Hamilton would have beaten the Alonso of 2006? Alonso was epic that year.

The Renault was a superiour car in -05 and -06!

#2530 seahawk

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 10:06

No, he's just a real competitor, in his first year with his new team, motivating them and himself too.

Something any simple basher like you will try to twist, again. Keep trying.

Cheers.


I think that every person working for Ferrari is able to asses the situation based on facts and is able to calculate the chances. You do not motivate people by making promises, that they know will not be fulfilled. If Mr. Alonso would have promised a few more victories I would have accpeted that he is trying to motivate the team.

#2531 Massacrator

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 10:18

The Renault was a superiour car in -05 and -06!

WCC points difference between 1st and 2nd say otherwise.

There wasn't a difference as big as Brawn last year, Redbull will have this year, or McLaren had in 2007.

#2532 velgajski1

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 10:51

WCC points difference between 1st and 2nd say otherwise.

There wasn't a difference as big as Brawn last year, Redbull will have this year, or McLaren had in 2007.


Do you seriously judge car performance by WCC points? If so, then McLaren in 2007. had the worst car on grid.

In 2005. Renault was dominant car, in 2006. they were at level with Ferrari. Yes, Brawn 09 was more dominant then Renault in 2006., but less than Renault in 2005. To say that in 2007.McLaren car was dominant is really pretty stupid, as it was on exactly same level as Ferrari. There was nothing between those two cars except that Massa had been a bit unlucky and out of form on few races.

Edited by velgajski1, 13 July 2010 - 10:56.


#2533 velgajski1

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 10:54

Alonso wasn't at his best in 2007. He wasn't comfortable with his team.

Do you really think Hamilton would have beaten the Alonso of 2006? Alonso was epic that year.


Agree on bolded parts.

About Hamilton vs. Alonso.... depends on which Hamilton we are speaking, Hamilton 2007-2009. probably wouldn't beat Alonso of 2006.. Hamilton 2010. seems to me like whole other story, his driving is brilliant - even more impressive than Alonso in 2006. so far (at least to me).

Edited by velgajski1, 13 July 2010 - 10:54.


#2534 snx843

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:41

Its over. Retirement looms. He has lost it, the will to win, the last 0.05% that made him worth an F1 drive.

Never rated him anyways, a delusion of talent based on Michelin tyres and Bridgestones lack of ability to make a tyre that can grip the road. Product of Schumi hatred/boredom. Like a false Jester.

Edited by snx843, 13 July 2010 - 11:43.


#2535 Massacrator

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:47

Its over. Retirement looms. He has lost it, the will to win, the last 0.05% that made him worth an F1 drive.

Never rated him anyways, a delusion of talent based on Michelin tyres and Bridgestones lack of ability to make a tyre that can grip the road. Product of Schumi hatred/boredom. Like a false Jester.

I love how people talk when the driver is some points behind. You better hope your fav driver keeps being #1 in the standings for the next of the year/next year, or else, I'll be flooding your driver's post saying him to retire! :rotfl:

#2536 Obi Offiah

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:18

You can never write-off Alonso and Ferrari, never.

#2537 cardin

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:20

Montezemolo:
"These days qualifying and race starts become decisive moments: we must improve on these two fronts if we want to win. I expect everyone to give 100% in order to bring home the points we have lost thus far."

Just what Alonso needs; a little more pressure.

#2538 as65p

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:41

Montezemolo:
"These days qualifying and race starts become decisive moments: we must improve on these two fronts if we want to win. I expect everyone to give 100% in order to bring home the points we have lost thus far."

Just what Alonso needs; a little more pressure.


He's perfectly right, though (and it's not very often that one can say that about LdM).

The whole operation is lacking this season, not only Alonso, they're all under pressure.

#2539 Massa

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:48

Alonso seems to have lost his connection to reality. The titles are lost.


We saw that in 2006 and 2007.

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#2540 motorhead

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:51

Montezemolo:
"These days qualifying and race starts become decisive moments: we must improve on these two fronts if we want to win. I expect everyone to give 100% in order to bring home the points we have lost thus far."

Just what Alonso needs; a little more pressure.


Montezemolo has noticed something that has been obvious for other teams for ages...dementia maybe...

#2541 Massa

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:52

No way. Alonso beat Schumi at his best. I really doubt Hamilton could have done the same.


No way, the best schumacher is 1997-2000.

#2542 Hole

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:00

Alonso seems to have lost his connection to reality. The titles are lost.


Ironical. This looks more like a wish than a reality.

Alonso wasn't at his best in 2007. He wasn't comfortable with his team.

Do you really think Hamilton would have beaten the Alonso of 2006? Alonso was epic that year.


Exactly. Alonso at his best during 2007? those who say so just want to play the naive card to fit their bashing against Alonso. Alonso wasn't happy there, he didn't feel confortable. According to this same bashers Alonso needs all the team to love him, as Renault did, but at the same time they assume Alonso was nice and fine in McLaren. :S

#2543 PompousJester

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:07

You can never write-off Alonso and Ferrari, never.


I do :kiss:

#2544 fed up

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:07

Ironical. This looks more like a wish than a reality.



Exactly. Alonso at his best during 2007? those who say so just want to play the naive card to fit their bashing against Alonso. Alonso wasn't happy there, he didn't feel confortable. According to this same bashers Alonso needs all the team to love him, as Renault did, but at the same time they assume Alonso was nice and fine in McLaren. :S


Alonso, Kimi and Button were awesome on Michelin tyres. The Renault was developed with input from Michelin as was the Ferrari and Bridgestones. 2007 was a level playing field for both Hamilton & Alonso in so far that they were both new to Bridgestones in F1 (Lewis had experience in GP2)

There were some accounts that Lewis was shocking on Michelins, so it is probably fair to assume that Alonso would have thrashed him on that tyre, but he couldn't on the tyre that was effectively the same for both.

Edited by Buttoneer, 13 July 2010 - 13:10.


#2545 billkaos

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:19

He admitted it.

Well, I've seen the whole BBC Malaysia replay and cannot find a line where Alonso does blame himself. Only moment Alonso speaks is after Massa (about 1:10) and the transcriptions is as follows:

"Well I thought we had no more rain for the rest of qualifying, unfortunately it did rain so the track didn't improve at all in the last ten minutes so we went in the wrong place in the wrong moment, but..... the race is tomorrow, not today, we keep the confidence high."

"Yes, but hopefully I can change this situation [talking about previous race] in the next qualifying, but for sure today we have been a little bit unlucky or we did some mistakes. Tomorrow hopefully we will avoid those mistakes."

So IMHO my blame distribution was right, what are you trying to achieve? That's far from saying "the blame is 90% mine"

[BTW FA should improve his English skills]


#2546 undersquare

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:20

There were some accounts that Lewis was shocking on Michelins, so it is probably fair to assume that Alonso would have thrashed him on that tyre, but he couldn't on the tyre that was effectively the same for both.


It was a report by some other driver's manager IIRC  ;)

So I wouldn't assume anything. Lewis has been fine on grooves and 2 very different slicks, we'll see how they each get on with Pirellis next year...

#2547 velgajski1

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 13:27

There were some accounts that Lewis was shocking on Michelins, so it is probably fair to assume that Alonso would have thrashed him on that tyre, but he couldn't on the tyre that was effectively the same for both.


Well, that was one of his first F1 tests IIRC. You can't possibly judge by that.

#2548 bond

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 14:02

Alonso seems to have lost his connection to reality. The titles are lost.


I think deep down he knows there's no chance, but he needs to say this to the team...

#2549 AlanWake

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 14:33

The Renault was a superiour car in -05 and -06!


2005? Agreed, he had the best car on the grid but the R25 wasn't as dominant and fast as the MP420: he had the most reliable car but not the fastest car. 2005 is really similar to 2010. Mclaren = Red Bull, Alonso = Hamilton.

2006? No way. The 248F1 was as fast as the R26 in the first half of the season but Alonso made the difference with his great consistency and speed, and clearly faster/superior than the Renault in the second half of the season. Don't forget, Alonso retired twice due to reliability issues cost him 16 points at least: in Hungary when he was leading the best race of his life and Monza when he was running in the Top 3 after the most ridiculous penalty in F1 that I have ever seen.

#2550 undersquare

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 14:41

2005? Agreed, he had the best car on the grid but the R25 wasn't as dominant and fast as the MP420: he had the most reliable car but not the fastest car. 2005 is really similar to 2010. Mclaren = Red Bull, Alonso = Hamilton.


The R25 was a rocketship, that was the Renault dream team era with Dino Toso, Mark Smith & co, many of whom were quickly poached by the other teams because the car was so good. I remember Button saying in the first winter test how incredibly fast that car was in the corners. The R26 was its heir, still a fantastic car.