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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#2601 Number62

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 17:58

Pit lane - Racing in the pit lane is very dangerous. He only got a reprimand, which is all good and well if other drivers are extended the same curtesy. Also the rules are as clear as daylight with regard to this.







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#2602 Mungo Fangio of the Year

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 18:25

FA has been the unluckiest this season only behind PMdlR, who is the unluckiest by far.


What is unlucky in making mistakes?


#2603 Wingnut

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 18:36

"Unlucky" Kimi didn't come with a season budget.;)

As long as the $antander coin is rolling ...


So in essence, Kimi was unlucky that he was not Spanish (Alonso) or wasn't a significant marketing tool in his home country (Hamilton). I hope Santander think Alonso is worth the extra coin, he's certainly showing them his true champion pedigree this season. :wave:


#2604 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 18:37

http://www.darrenhea...g/stuck-reverse

Have a look at the last few paragraphs. This is the example that comes quickest to hand. My view is not based on what I would like to see but on reports from the paddock that I come accross.

I cant take those last few paragraphs very seriously. He is assuming that Alonso is responsible for the mood in the Ferrari garage while at the same time blaming him for Felipe's lacklustre body language. It's and insult to Alonso and most of all to Ferrari.

Imagine the toxic effect his never-ending mind games - so as to destabilise the nice brazilian team-mate - are having within the team

What mind games? All Alonso has done is beat the little man on the track. If that's a problem for Massa then he should quit. Now! He, after all, started the verbal jousting when Alonso was announced as his team-mate.

It's Alonso and he ain't letting this chance for some machiavellian behaviour pass him by

I saw the incident and if that is how he read it then he really can't be taken seriously. It was a nothing incident let alone machiavellian.

I think whoever wrote the article has a serious chip on his shoulder. Either an Alonso hater or a Ferrari hater.



#2605 YellowHelmet

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 18:38

What is unlucky in making mistakes?

if they have a big effect on the outcome!
e.g.
overtaking a safety car is a mistake, luck if it doesnt change a lot, unlucky if it change a lot
crashing a car in fp is a mistake, it is unlcuky if you cant start in quali
it is a mistake to hit your opponent, you are lucky if you profit due to it, if you lose a lot places it is unlucky!
etc.

#2606 YellowHelmet

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 18:39

http://www.darrenhea...g/stuck-reverse

thank you for that link, very good pics!

#2607 peroa

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 18:43

I cant take those last few paragraphs very seriously. He is assuming that Alonso is responsible for the mood in the Ferrari garage while at the same time blaming him for Felipe's lacklustre body language. It's and insult to Alonso and most of all to Ferrari.


Well, he's there, every other weekend.

#2608 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 18:56

Well, he's there, every other weekend.

That's good for him. Point is there is no fact in those last few paragraphs just assumptions. he would be called a troll if he posted that garbage on this bulletin board.

But hey, to each his own...

#2609 bonjon1979

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 19:03

if they have a big effect on the outcome!
e.g.
overtaking a safety car is a mistake, luck if it doesnt change a lot, unlucky if it change a lot
crashing a car in fp is a mistake, it is unlcuky if you cant start in quali
it is a mistake to hit your opponent, you are lucky if you profit due to it, if you lose a lot places it is unlucky!
etc.


Quite true. Brings to mind a quote by Goethe:

'It seems to never occur to fools that merit and good fortune are closely united.'

#2610 YellowHelmet

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 19:23

Quite true. Brings to mind a quote by Goethe:

'It seems to never occur to fools that merit and good fortune are closely united.'

dont know this quote
maybe it is from that part:
"Wie es auch sei, das Leben, es ist gut.
Wie sich Verdienst und Glück verketten, das seh`n die Narren niemals ein,
wenn sie den Stein des Weisen hätten, der Weise mangelte dem Stein!
Wir erschrecken über unsere eigenen Sünden, wenn wir sie bei anderen erblicken."

If yes, he meant it in another way!

here is another one from Wilhelm Busch(in german)
Ein Narr hat Glück im Masse/ Wer klug, hat selten Schwein!

#2611 VicR

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 19:51

I've said it before and I'm going to say it again - Pandora's Box.

No more, no less.

#2612 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 20:04

I've said it before and I'm going to say it again - Pandora's Box.

No more, no less.

Once all the evil got released. Hope got trapped in that box. Maybe you should open it now and release all that hope. Now is actually the perfect time as Massa needs plenty of it. I'm amazed at how many Alonso and Hamilton bashers there are, but then again they are currently the benchmark drivers in the paddock. All the bashing just means that they are doing what they get paid for.

#2613 race

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 20:10

True, Alonso has made many mistakes, but he has been faster than Massa. To me a driver who is faster than his team mate is doing a reasonable job. Massa is having big issues with this year's car while Alonso is consistently fast. Whether he adapted better or his natural driving style suits the car better is up to debate, but he is still faster.

I root for Kimi, but the fact that Massa is having tyre heating problems this year indicates that Kimi would absolutely hate the car. So I'm glad he is not there. The Ferrari never looked as good as the McLaren in Kimi's hands.

What I do hope for is that people stop ranting about "car development skills" of the drivers. Drivers don't develop the cars, never have and never will. They can tell the engineers whether a change is for the better or worse, but that's about it. Whitmarsh has always said this when he has been asked about Kimi's "development skills". I was so tired of the Alonso/Schumi fan brigade blaming Kimi and Felipe for not being able to develop the car like Alonso/Schumi could. It was and is just bullshit, which has been proven this year at both Ferrari and Mercedes.

#2614 bonjon1979

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 20:21

dont know this quote
maybe it is from that part:
"Wie es auch sei, das Leben, es ist gut.
Wie sich Verdienst und Glück verketten, das seh`n die Narren niemals ein,
wenn sie den Stein des Weisen hätten, der Weise mangelte dem Stein!
Wir erschrecken über unsere eigenen Sünden, wenn wir sie bei anderen erblicken."

If yes, he meant it in another way!

here is another one from Wilhelm Busch(in german)
Ein Narr hat Glück im Masse/ Wer klug, hat selten Schwein!



The way I understand it is that he's suggesting that chance can play as much a part as skill and that foolish people often don't realise this. Happy days!

btw I wasn't in anyway suggesting you were foolish, I actually agree with you on this (For once!!!) I'm just trying to raise the tone of debate!

Edited by bonjon1979, 14 July 2010 - 21:03.


#2615 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 20:25

By driver development i suppose they mean that the real good ones have a feel and understanding for what is lacking while driving the car. That's why driver/engineer communication is essential. They just convey what they feel is lacking and the engineers get on with their jobs of improving it. But I agree that drivers don't develop a car. That's all hogwash.

#2616 VicR

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 21:46

Once all the evil got released. Hope got trapped in that box. Maybe you should open it now and release all that hope. Now is actually the perfect time as Massa needs plenty of it. I'm amazed at how many Alonso and Hamilton bashers there are, but then again they are currently the benchmark drivers in the paddock. All the bashing just means that they are doing what they get paid for.


Since the evil is already released no amount of hope will be able to balance it out.

I don't know your preference and interpretation of "they are doing what they get paid for" but IMHO Alonso, not only, is he doing a terrible job compared to what he earns but he also brings down the entire athmosphere and working environment inside the team. He drags the entire team down with his mindgames, dirty moves on and off track and braindead comments in the media that hurt Ferrari as a marque. If that's the legacy LdM wants to be associated with then both of them can ride off into the sunset for all I care...together...right now.

#2617 cardin

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:28

Since the evil is already released no amount of hope will be able to balance it out.

I don't know your preference and interpretation of "they are doing what they get paid for" but IMHO Alonso, not only, is he doing a terrible job compared to what he earns but he also brings down the entire athmosphere and working environment inside the team. He drags the entire team down with his mindgames, dirty moves on and off track and braindead comments in the media that hurt Ferrari as a marque. If that's the legacy LdM wants to be associated with then both of them can ride off into the sunset for all I care...together...right now.


Ferrari is in a relly bad shape. Weak management, a clueless el presidente, a deranged driver and to top it all the driver can't be fired since Santander is Ferrari's main sponsor. I don't think this is going to end well for ferrari.

#2618 Dunder

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 22:38

Ferrari is in a relly bad shape. Weak management, a clueless el presidente, a deranged driver and to top it all the driver can't be fired since Santander is Ferrari's main sponsor. I don't think this is going to end well for ferrari.


As I wrote this morning. It is like Judas Iscariot joining the Taliban.
They deserve each other.


#2619 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 23:11

Since the evil is already released no amount of hope will be able to balance it out.

I don't know your preference and interpretation of "they are doing what they get paid for" but IMHO Alonso, not only, is he doing a terrible job compared to what he earns but he also brings down the entire athmosphere and working environment inside the team. He drags the entire team down with his mindgames, dirty moves on and off track and braindead comments in the media that hurt Ferrari as a marque. If that's the legacy LdM wants to be associated with then both of them can ride off into the sunset for all I care...together...right now.

Stop the bashing, it's not gonna make Massa look any better. As a tifosi I am glad Alonso is there. He is doing a much better job than Massa regardless of his mistakes. As for dirty moves on and off the track please provide some evidence. Mindgames? Massa started that crap way before Alonso even stepped foot in a Ferrari. As for the brain dead comments, Ferrari seem to be backing him in that department.

So all in all its just sour grapes because Massa is getting whipped.



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#2620 VicR

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 23:13

Ferrari is in a relly bad shape. Weak management, a clueless el presidente, a deranged driver and to top it all the driver can't be fired since Santander is Ferrari's main sponsor. I don't think this is going to end well for ferrari.


There is always the board of Ferrari and Piero. Once that rumble starts then Luca will have to answer. Afterall, he's only the CEO (or is it Amedeo Felisa?) and hired by the board. The board is the law. But obviously Luca has some strong merits like Michael in the past but things do change and and they usually change fast in the corporate world. I still believe Luca will accept he made a bad judgment accepting Santander's payoff and getting Alonso. But if not...well...the company and the way it's percieved and viewed by the world has to be protected at all costs. You can't have a rogue driver bringing havoc everywhere he turns his head. It can't be accepted. Alonso is bringing Ferrari into disrepute. Yes, with some unfortunate help from the pitwall.

Edited by VicR, 14 July 2010 - 23:17.


#2621 showtime

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 23:22

There is always the board of Ferrari and Piero. Once that rumble starts then Luca will have to answer. Afterall, he's only the CEO and hired by the board. The board is the law. But obviously Luca has some strong merits like Michael in the past but things do change and and they usually change fast in the corporate world. I still believe Luca will accept he made a bad judgment accepting Santander's payoff and getting Alonso. But if not...well...the company and the way it's percieved and viewed by the world has to be protected at all costs. You can't have a rogue driver bringing havoc everywhere he turns his head. It can't be accepted. Alonso is bringing Ferrari into disrepute. Yes, with some unfortunate help from the pitwall.


:lol: :lol: :lol: Are you waiting for the board of Ferrari to fire Luca and Alonso so Massa could look faster?

#2622 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 23:40

:lol: :lol: :lol: Are you waiting for the board of Ferrari to fire Luca and Alonso so Massa could look faster?

Yeah, they can give the 11 year old kid, from Canada, whom they signed as a young driver a seat next to him. His body language is bound to improve:

#2623 2ms

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 00:04

There is always the board of Ferrari and Piero. Once that rumble starts then Luca will have to answer. Afterall, he's only the CEO (or is it Amedeo Felisa?) and hired by the board. The board is the law. But obviously Luca has some strong merits like Michael in the past but things do change and and they usually change fast in the corporate world. I still believe Luca will accept he made a bad judgment accepting Santander's payoff and getting Alonso. But if not...well...the company and the way it's percieved and viewed by the world has to be protected at all costs. You can't have a rogue driver bringing havoc everywhere he turns his head. It can't be accepted. Alonso is bringing Ferrari into disrepute. Yes, with some unfortunate help from the pitwall.


It's a funny situation there right now. On the one hand they have this opportunity where a bank flush with bailout money is dying to drop cash on a Spaniard and so is lavishing Ferrari with whatever gifts they want. But on the other hand, the Spanish driver who is central to the arrangement with Santander (i.e. the have no option to get other driver) is having problems and not delivering the results Ferrari seems to think they should get almost 100% of them time (or else they start firing people).

This next half of season is going to be huge for them. The most critical half season in as long as I can remember for them. The reason is that they put a huge amount into the F10 (basically two seasons of development) and had to break driver contract etc which are very embarrassing things for them to do if they end up getting worse results than before. I think Ferrari extra badly needs results right now because since the VW purchase of Lamborghini, Lamborghini cars have been revolutionized and are toughest competition Ferrari has seen in ages in marketplace. In addition to the very successful Gallardo, now the last old Lamborghini (Murcielago) is being replaced by a nre VW/Audi engineered car that will undoubtedly be big challenger to Ferrari's V12 car (599) just like the Gallardo has been to the 430. On top of this, McLaren is coming out with challenger to Ferrari's V8 cars so it is not good time to be looking like inferior car maker to McLaren!

This has gotta be one of the most intense years inside Ferrari in very long time.

#2624 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 00:44

It's a funny situation there right now. On the one hand they have this opportunity where a bank flush with bailout money is dying to drop cash on a Spaniard and so is lavishing Ferrari with whatever gifts they want. But on the other hand, the Spanish driver who is central to the arrangement with Santander (i.e. the have no option to get other driver) is having problems and not delivering the results Ferrari seems to think they should get almost 100% of them time (or else they start firing people).

This next half of season is going to be huge for them. The most critical half season in as long as I can remember for them. The reason is that they put a huge amount into the F10 (basically two seasons of development) and had to break driver contract etc which are very embarrassing things for them to do if they end up getting worse results than before. I think Ferrari extra badly needs results right now because since the VW purchase of Lamborghini, Lamborghini cars have been revolutionized and are toughest competition Ferrari has seen in ages in marketplace. In addition to the very successful Gallardo, now the last old Lamborghini (Murcielago) is being replaced by a nre VW/Audi engineered car that will undoubtedly be big challenger to Ferrari's V12 car (599) just like the Gallardo has been to the 430. On top of this, McLaren is coming out with challenger to Ferrari's V8 cars so it is not good time to be looking like inferior car maker to McLaren!

This has gotta be one of the most intense years inside Ferrari in very long time.

Ferrari as a marque has no peers, it's evident by their financial results. In 2009 when all manufacturers suffered heavily due to the recession (35% on average), Ferrari were only slightly down in revenue when compared to 2008 which was the most successful year in financial terms for Ferrari in its history. Since the announcement of Alonso as a driver their retail has jumped by nearly 23% and it is probably more now. Ferrari are also making a killing in their emerging markets like Asia, and they have also increased their market share by nearly 11% across the board over the same period due to the release of the Ferrari California. All this doesn't even take into account the 458 Italia which has received rave reviews and awards. So the argument about Ferrari and the tough market place doesn't hold much weight. Ferrari cars will always sell well regardless of the competition, such is the pedigree of their marque, so I'm pretty sure the board is quite content with how the company is being run.

I do agree that the second half of the season is very important in terms of their F1 enterprises, but even then it's not the end of the world. They have long term sponsors, some of which even hold shares in Ferrari, Mubadala come to mind here. Too many people on this board would love Ferrari to fall flat on their faces, even more so, now that Alonso is one of their drivers.

The F10 is looking very competitive lately so results will come and I'm willing to bet that those results will come via the hands of Alonso (Judas Iscariot and his bank of fools).

Edited by Ferrari2183, 15 July 2010 - 01:10.


#2625 JSDSKI

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 01:02

Pretty funny stuff here. Alonso's mood is the reason Ferrari has technical / engineering problems.

While drivers don't do anything to develop the cars, apparently Ferrari F1 cars (post Brawn) performance is dependent upon positive vibes and emotions from the drivers? Maybe the engineering department should be developing carbon graphic emoticons rather than F-ducts and exhaust gas diffuser? Perhaps they should use some kind of kinetic energy device to harness Alonso's powerful emotions for a push to pass button that would work whenever THE GREAT FERNANDO stares at the back of an opponents car?

Alonso checking out his team mate's car resting off track (while assigning evil motives and magical properties to Alonsos' evil eye) is the reason his team mate isn't doing so well this season? Really? Then doesn't it stand to reason that he'd be using his magical properties to WIN THE EFFING CHAMPIONSHIP!?! Rather than just f**k around with people!?!

My God. If you're going to use magical thinking, at least use it properly! FFS, apprentice sorcerers these days. You just can't get good help.

#2626 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 01:29

There is always the board of Ferrari and Piero. Once that rumble starts then Luca will have to answer. Afterall, he's only the CEO (or is it Amedeo Felisa?) and hired by the board. The board is the law. But obviously Luca has some strong merits like Michael in the past but things do change and and they usually change fast in the corporate world. I still believe Luca will accept he made a bad judgment accepting Santander's payoff and getting Alonso. But if not...well...the company and the way it's percieved and viewed by the world has to be protected at all costs. You can't have a rogue driver bringing havoc everywhere he turns his head. It can't be accepted. Alonso is bringing Ferrari into disrepute. Yes, with some unfortunate help from the pitwall.

Seriously, this has got to be the funniest post I've ever read. Rogue driver...

#2627 Watkins74

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 02:12

Ferrari as a marque has no peers, it's evident by their financial results. In 2009 when all manufacturers suffered heavily due to the recession (35% on average), Ferrari were only slightly down in revenue when compared to 2008 which was the most successful year in financial terms for Ferrari in its history. Since the announcement of Alonso as a driver their retail has jumped by nearly 23% and it is probably more now. Ferrari are also making a killing in their emerging markets like Asia, and they have also increased their market share by nearly 11% across the board over the same period due to the release of the Ferrari California. All this doesn't even take into account the 458 Italia which has received rave reviews and awards. So the argument about Ferrari and the tough market place doesn't hold much weight. Ferrari cars will always sell well regardless of the competition, such is the pedigree of their marque, so I'm pretty sure the board is quite content with how the company is being run.

I do agree that the second half of the season is very important in terms of their F1 enterprises, but even then it's not the end of the world. They have long term sponsors, some of which even hold shares in Ferrari, Mubadala come to mind here. Too many people on this board would love Ferrari to fall flat on their faces, even more so, now that Alonso is one of their drivers.

The F10 is looking very competitive lately so results will come and I'm willing to bet that those results will come via the hands of Alonso (Judas Iscariot and his bank of fools).

Excellent post. :up:

The "Kimi Mafia" tries to portray Ferrari as some Bankrupt company that was forced to accept Santandar money and do whatever Santandar told them. No sponsor tells Ferrari what to do. It is the opposite, Ferrari uses sponsors to get what it wants. They wanted Alonso and they used Santandar as a tool to get what they wanted. If Ferrari wanted Raikkonen in 2010 he would still be there, they wanted Alonso and they got him. It helps the "Kimi Mafia" to make Santandar the evil company so they can sleep at night. They hate Alonso because he "stole' Kimi's ride. The fact Ferrari fired Kimi is a truth so unbearable that they cannot live with it.

I think they should have kept Kimi for 2010 but it's not my team.

#2628 ViMaMo

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 02:39

I dont know how they could have kept Kimi, he was on a mega pay package, Massa creamed him, then recession happened.



#2629 cardin

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 03:52

There is always the board of Ferrari and Piero. Once that rumble starts then Luca will have to answer. Afterall, he's only the CEO (or is it Amedeo Felisa?) and hired by the board. The board is the law. But obviously Luca has some strong merits like Michael in the past but things do change and and they usually change fast in the corporate world. I still believe Luca will accept he made a bad judgment accepting Santander's payoff and getting Alonso. But if not...well...the company and the way it's percieved and viewed by the world has to be protected at all costs. You can't have a rogue driver bringing havoc everywhere he turns his head. It can't be accepted. Alonso is bringing Ferrari into disrepute. Yes, with some unfortunate help from the pitwall.


That's were we differ. I don't think Alonso is to blame in the sense that you can't blame a paranoid person to start killing people if you provided the machine gun in the first place. The blame rests solely on LdM's lap. They hired Alonso to lead the team, not only to be their #1 driver, in MS style but he forgot they don't have Todt/Brawn there anymore. It would be very dificult, if not impossible, for a mentaly stronger driver to carry the team by himself the way they want. I mean, how do they expect a driver that has to be constantly calmed down, during the races, by his race engineer to be cool and colected enough to lead anything. Unless they are happy, as some fans here are, with the fact that he's beating an underperforming Massa. I suspect they want more from him then that and LdM already started to put some more pressure on him this week.

Edited by cardin, 15 July 2010 - 03:55.


#2630 kosmos

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 05:51

Alonso seems to have lost his connection to reality


He complains about everything on Earth except his own insane mistakes


Its over. Retirement looms. He has lost it, the will to win, the last 0.05% that made him worth an F1 drive.


I found myself cheering his demise last Sunday afternoon and hope he doesnt win another race again this year


So, how is Fernando's WDC chase going? :rotfl:


it'd mean you have to support some of his nonsensical views and actions. Maybe when the relationship is more established, you can grab him by the collar and tell him to shut up


As I wrote this morning. It is like Judas Iscariot joining the Taliban.


Alonso is bringing Ferrari into disrepute



An example of the last pages, I respect everyone opinions and I do understand that many people don't like Alonso no matter how he behave on track and off track, that's fine with me, opinions are opinions and I respect it, but sometimes I have the feeling that there is more to it. The hate for Alonso in this board sometimes is irrational.

Edited by kosmos, 15 July 2010 - 05:52.


#2631 Arion

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:39

An example of the last pages, I respect everyone opinions and I do understand that many people don't like Alonso no matter how he behave on track and off track, that's fine with me, opinions are opinions and I respect it, but sometimes I have the feeling that there is more to it. The hate for Alonso in this board sometimes is irrational.


I bet you can make a similar list of quotes for at least half of the grid if you try. There's nothing more to it. Seriously.



#2632 AlanWake

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:47

:lol: :lol: :lol: Are you waiting for the board of Ferrari to fire Luca and Alonso so Massa could look faster?


He only hates Alonso because Alonso is making look Massa bad  ;)

#2633 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 08:05

That's were we differ. I don't think Alonso is to blame in the sense that you can't blame a paranoid person to start killing people if you provided the machine gun in the first place. The blame rests solely on LdM's lap. They hired Alonso to lead the team, not only to be their #1 driver, in MS style but he forgot they don't have Todt/Brawn there anymore. It would be very dificult, if not impossible, for a mentaly stronger driver to carry the team by himself the way they want. I mean, how do they expect a driver that has to be constantly calmed down, during the races, by his race engineer to be cool and colected enough to lead anything. Unless they are happy, as some fans here are, with the fact that he's beating an underperforming Massa. I suspect they want more from him then that and LdM already started to put some more pressure on him this week.

As a ferrari supporter, of course I want him to perform better, but he has been extremely unclucky with safety cars in the last 2 races. Massa is only being used as benchmark because he is his team-mate. Add the lets say 30 points (assuming 2nd in Valencia and 4th in Canada) he lost in those 2 races then we wouldn't even be having this conversation would we? Can someone here also tell, how many times he has been calmed down by his race engineer during the race. By my count it is 2 out of the 10 races (although we don't full coverage of the car-pit transmissions, so maybe there were more). Geez, give the guy a break. He has enough pressure to deal with and most of that is probably coming from himself. If asked, I'm sure he would be honest enough to admit he hasn't had the best 10 races, but such is life and motor racing. He is tempramental, yes, but that is the part of his character that makes him the racer that he is.

Boy am I glad Ferrari are run by more level headed people than Alonso bashers.

#2634 Claudius

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:53

The reports of Alonsos demise are a bit premature...

There is still a long way to go. And if he wins another race soon, and Ferrari have a pretty decent car now so it's not a moot point, everything will be forgotten.



#2635 as65p

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:35

An example of the last pages, I respect everyone opinions and I do understand that many people don't like Alonso no matter how he behave on track and off track, that's fine with me, opinions are opinions and I respect it, but sometimes I have the feeling that there is more to it. The hate for Alonso in this board sometimes is irrational.


At least we can now lay the myth to rest that only Hamilton attracts that much flak. :smoking:



#2636 Aerosoul

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 13:24

This is turning into a Massa vs Alonso thread. Don't feed the trolls

Aero

#2637 toxicfusion

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 13:56

Alonso needs votes people! :D

#2638 cardin

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 14:06

As a ferrari supporter, of course I want him to perform better, but he has been extremely unclucky with safety cars in the last 2 races. Massa is only being used as benchmark because he is his team-mate. Add the lets say 30 points (assuming 2nd in Valencia and 4th in Canada) he lost in those 2 races then we wouldn't even be having this conversation would we? Can someone here also tell, how many times he has been calmed down by his race engineer during the race. By my count it is 2 out of the 10 races (although we don't full coverage of the car-pit transmissions, so maybe there were more). Geez, give the guy a break. He has enough pressure to deal with and most of that is probably coming from himself. If asked, I'm sure he would be honest enough to admit he hasn't had the best 10 races, but such is life and motor racing. He is tempramental, yes, but that is the part of his character that makes him the racer that he is.

Boy am I glad Ferrari are run by more level headed people than Alonso bashers.


I see the mantra now is his 'bad luck' with the safety cars in the last two races but people conviniently forgets how luck he was with the safety car in Monaco, China and Australia.
And calling people who have a more critical view of Alonso bashers and haters is just childish. It's just as bad as if we start to call you Alonso lovers and Alonso worshipers.

#2639 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 15:34

I see the mantra now is his 'bad luck' with the safety cars in the last two races but people conviniently forgets how luck he was with the safety car in Monaco, China and Australia.
And calling people who have a more critical view of Alonso bashers and haters is just childish. It's just as bad as if we start to call you Alonso lovers and Alonso worshipers.

Calling the guy deranged ain't exactly being critical and then throwing the blame squarely at LdM's feet is downright lunatic.
Also, I only used the last 2 safety cars as examples because those were the races in which he threw his hissy fits over the radio. Can you imagine what that might have felt like, especially since he was signed to get results...

Anyway, this thread went apeshit the minute that ludacris article was posted which had no fact, only assumptions. Imagine if I had posted that same garbage in here...

Edited by Ferrari2183, 15 July 2010 - 16:04.


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#2640 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 16:13

Alonso needs votes people! :D

Sorry, I can't vote for Alonso here. If I were to vote it would be for either Rosberg, Chandhok, Massa or Button. I think they deal with the media the best and are genuinely nice guys.

#2641 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 16:23

Alonso needs votes people! :D

"Your votes should go towards the driver you think is the nicest, or who deals with the media well.".

Not Alonso then :p .

#2642 yr

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 16:32

He only hates Alonso because Alonso is making look Massa bad ;)


I think its quite obvious that Massa is struggling big time this year, if it is his accident or problems with car/tyres/whatever I don´t know, but certainly he is underperforming. His results this year (excluding first 2 GPs) are about similar to what he had in his Sauber years... don´t try to tell me that this years Ferrari is on the same level within the competition as Sauber 2002 was, because it was actually fastest on race pace and second fastest in qual when season started. So its not "Alonso making Massa look bad", Felipe is doing it all by himself.

#2643 Flamini

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 16:39

And calling people who have a more critical view of Alonso bashers and haters is just childish.


Depends what this people said. Some people have more critical view and some (like you) wonder if ferrari is already thinking about sacking Alonso.

First thing is ok, second is trolling :)

#2644 cardin

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 20:54

Calling the guy deranged ain't exactly being critical and then throwing the blame squarely at LdM's feet is downright lunatic.
Also, I only used the last 2 safety cars as examples because those were the races in which he threw his hissy fits over the radio. Can you imagine what that might have felt like, especially since he was signed to get results...

Anyway, this thread went apeshit the minute that ludacris article was posted which had no fact, only assumptions. Imagine if I had posted that same garbage in here...


I liked Alonso a lot in 2005 and 2006. In 2006 he came and said, to the press, he didn't have the support of the team. A team that was his, that was totally geared towards him. It raised my eyebrows but it wasn't enough to diminish my admiration for him. Then came 2007, a year in which he proved to me that he was not only mentaly flawed but also a very shady character. Now cut to 2010. He gave an interview, it was published here, congartulating himself on how he colaborated with the FIA on the exchange of emails he had with PdLR that proved McLaren was using stolen info from Ferrari. I thought this is really really crazy or really really cinic. You take your pick. You add to that his Hamilton obsession and the fact he have to be constantly calmed down over the radio and you can see why I call him deranged. I didn't form my opinion overnight, it certainly was not after reading some article linked on this thread.

As for LdM, I gave you the reasons why I think he is the one to blame. Namely; he's asking of people what they cannot give. What's your counter argument ? You called me lunatic.

#2645 toxicfusion

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 21:58

"Your votes should go towards the driver you think is the nicest, or who deals with the media well.".

Not Alonso then :p .


Read some of the comments on the link. Alonso spends a lot of time signing things for fans and comes across as a nice guy.

Not that it matters the poll is over :p

#2646 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 22:01

I liked Alonso a lot in 2005 and 2006. In 2006 he came and said, to the press, he didn't have the support of the team. A team that was his, that was totally geared towards him. It raised my eyebrows but it wasn't enough to diminish my admiration for him. Then came 2007, a year in which he proved to me that he was not only mentaly flawed but also a very shady character. Now cut to 2010. He gave an interview, it was published here, congartulating himself on how he colaborated with the FIA on the exchange of emails he had with PdLR that proved McLaren was using stolen info from Ferrari. I thought this is really really crazy or really really cinic. You take your pick. You add to that his Hamilton obsession and the fact he have to be constantly calmed down over the radio and you can see why I call him deranged. I didn't form my opinion overnight, it certainly was not after reading some article linked on this thread.

As for LdM, I gave you the reasons why I think he is the one to blame. Namely; he's asking of people what they cannot give. What's your counter argument ? You called me lunatic.

I don't know about him saying Renault wasn't behind him in 2006, he had nothing but praise for the team. The whole 2007 and Mclaren was shitty all round. He was not the only party to the incidents that unfolded there. I suppose Ron is also deranged then for what transpired, if you follow your logic. As for his supposed obsession with Hamilton. It was only 1 race and it's totally understandable... Especially in the heat of the moment. A championship is at stake for pete's sake. You need to look at things from his perspective as well, that's why I say you are a basher.

Also, I didn't say you are a lunatic. I said laying the blame on LdM is lunatic. Your post on the previous page was shady to say the least. You say Luca is clueless, Ferrari have weak management, Alonso is deranged. You came across as being obsessive.

#2647 VicR

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 22:19

Also, I didn't say you are a lunatic. I said laying the blame on LdM is lunatic. Your post on the previous page was shady to say the least. You say Luca is clueless, Ferrari have weak management, Alonso is deranged. You came across as being obsessive.


He basicly came across as being spot on, hitting the nail on the head, dotting the "I" etc. Sometimes people are missing the forest for all the trees. cardin makes sense even though he doesn't agree with my general opinion that Alonso is psychopath.

I'm just curious to see the "hand washing" powers of Luca. He should come out of this clean as a white lily with some morning dew.

#2648 cardin

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 22:49

I don't know about him saying Renault wasn't behind him in 2006, he had nothing but praise for the team.



That's nothing new nor obscure. It was well documented at the time. If you never heard it to bad.

I suppose Ron is also deranged then for what transpired, if you follow your logic.


You are not folowing my logic very well. I gave reasons spanning 5 years why I think he's not only deranged but a shady character. It was not only 2007.

As for his supposed obsession with Hamilton. It was only 1 race


He might have showed it in just 1 race but we know it's there. An obsession is an obsession.

that's why I say you are a basher.


And I call you a worshipper. See, I can call names too.

You say Luca is clueless, Ferrari have weak management, Alonso is deranged.


I think he is, I think they have and I think he is. I gave reasons why I think that. I have not read any counter argument to my reasons. You never told us why you think the management is doing a good job, why Alonso is a well balanced and well rounded individual and very capable of leading the team and why LdM is not ultimatelly responsible for what is happening at Ferrari. All I read coming from you was name calling like lunatic, basher and obsessive.

Edited by cardin, 15 July 2010 - 23:24.


#2649 VicR

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 23:23

I tell you one thing.

Had Enzo been alive something would have changed already. Would it been for the better of for the worse? That's written in the stars. But one thing is for sure, there would be no complacency. There would be changes ranging from serious talks to physical confrontations. That's how it it once was. That's Ferrari's leagcy to racing. Acting with the soul as a guidelight rather than an corporate approach. It's too quite right now if you want to judge Ferrari historically. The team is losing its soul and strangely enough the Italians are doing much of the "questionable" work. It doesn't make sense! There has to be a catch somewhere.

#2650 showtime

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 23:34

"lost his connection to reality", "insane mistakes", "Its over. Retirement looms", "nonsensical views and actions", "tell him to shut up", "Judas Iscariot joining the Taliban", "deranged", "psychopath"...

:eek:

I think haters are crossing some lines here, eve some legal ones. But hey, the obsessive guy was Alonso right? :drunk: