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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#2651 weareracing

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 23:35

:wave:
ABSOLUTELY :up:
The Passion is GONE but the profitability courtesy of Santender has increased :cry:
Luca, Enzo would have KICKED your butt so hard, RACE GOD DAMN IT, and stop the pretence over Safety Cars and the FIA :evil:
BE HONEST, so far 2010 Internal FAILURE, Drivers & Management :down:
:wave:

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#2652 Dunder

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 23:53

"lost his connection to reality", "insane mistakes", "Its over. Retirement looms", "nonsensical views and actions", "tell him to shut up", "Judas Iscariot joining the Taliban", "deranged", "psychopath"...

:eek:

I think haters are crossing some lines here, eve some legal ones. But hey, the obsessive guy was Alonso right? :drunk:


Well, as the author of the "Judas/Taliban" line, maybe I should explain myself.

I have been a 'devout' McLaren fan for 25 years. For the last 12 years Ferrari have been THE enemy.
I supported Alonso as much as any other McLaren driver in the first half of 2007. No other driver in my time following team has done what he did, to my mind it was an outright betrayal.

I am not obsessed, I am far more interested in McLaren being successful, but I will happily acknowledge enjoying the Ferrari/Alonso combination falling flat on it's face.

#2653 showtime

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 00:23

I can understand you hate both Ferrari and Alonso what I don't get is the need of going to their threads and bashing them or even making hard accusations just for fun. It's a bit childish IMO.

#2654 Dunder

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 00:38

I can understand you hate both Ferrari and Alonso what I don't get is the need of going to their threads and bashing them or even making hard accusations just for fun. It's a bit childish IMO.


I would acknowledge that. :blush:
In my defence, I don't think I made a single contribution to this thread before the Valencia race and only arrived here by way of a link in one of the "Hamilton cheats/safety car" threads.

#2655 Hole

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 00:59

We all behave a but childish from time to time. It's the internetz that turns us to that. :lol:

Edited by AdamKOR, 16 July 2010 - 01:00.


#2656 Hairpin

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 01:03

I can understand you hate both Ferrari and Alonso what I don't get is the need of going to their threads and bashing them or even making hard accusations just for fun. It's a bit childish IMO.

Sure, but it is a natural counter strike against the huge amount of unconditional Alonso/Ferrari love that is just as frequent as the bashing.

#2657 redbarron

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 02:24

I don't know about him saying Renault wasn't behind him in 2006, he had nothing but praise for the team. The whole 2007 and Mclaren was shitty all round. He was not the only party to the incidents that unfolded there. I suppose Ron is also deranged then for what transpired, if you follow your logic. As for his supposed obsession with Hamilton. It was only 1 race and it's totally understandable... Especially in the heat of the moment. A championship is at stake for pete's sake. You need to look at things from his perspective as well, that's why I say you are a basher.

Also, I didn't say you are a lunatic. I said laying the blame on LdM is lunatic. Your post on the previous page was shady to say the least. You say Luca is clueless, Ferrari have weak management, Alonso is deranged. You came across as being obsessive.


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize why your so keen to see Alonso leave Ferrari! I suppose the fact that I was yelling at the TV because the safety car ruined Alonso and Massa's race makes me a psychopath too? I suppose you've never been upset with a result either? You people are acting worst than children. Seriously grow up!

#2658 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 10:52

That's nothing new nor obscure. It was well documented at the time. If you never heard it to bad.

I honestly didn't get that, maybe it's because I wasn't to interested at the time. Anyway, jokes on Renault for taking him back i suppose after humiliating them in the press.



You are not folowing my logic very well. I gave reasons spanning 5 years why I think he's not only deranged but a shady character. It was not only 2007.

No you didn't, besides the 2006 episode you mentioned, his derangement according to you is based purely on his tenure at Mclaren and his obsession with Hamilton. Which is fair enough but I for one see that as a horrible mess, it was chaotic. Once the spygate rabbit was out of the hat, all things considered, do you really think that only he would have saved his own backside. Why would a driver risk his licence for a relationship that had already reached meltdown?


He might have showed it in just 1 race but we know it's there. An obsession is an obsession.

Hamilton is an awesome driver. Name me one guy in the paddock who doesn't want to beat him? Sure he let his emotions get the better of him
but to say he is obsessed is a little ridiculous. Where was that obsession in 2008 and 2009? An obsession is an obsession after all.


And I call you a worshipper. See, I can call names too.

I would never have posted in this thread if he wasn't driving for Ferrari.



I think he is, I think they have and I think he is. I gave reasons why I think that. I have not read any counter argument to my reasons. You never told us why you think the management is doing a good job, why Alonso is a well balanced and well rounded individual and very capable of leading the team and why LdM is not ultimatelly responsible for what is happening at Ferrari. All I read coming from you was name calling like lunatic, basher and obsessive.

LdM has always been outspoken, nothing new there, but you haven't told us why he is clueless. Yes, management should be doing a better job this year but it's the same weak management who have delivered 1 WDC and 2 WCC in the last 4 years. As for Alonso, he has character flaws but he has proven he is capable of leading a team already. Not once, but twice. Now, please tell us why LdM is responsible for what is happening at Ferrari.





#2659 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 11:50

I honestly didn't get that, maybe it's because I wasn't to interested at the time. Anyway, jokes on Renault for taking him back i suppose after humiliating them in the press.

Autosport subscribers.

Pat Symonds: But I think the only time he really - we were talking earlier about drivers' biggest challenge is beating their teammate - the only time I've seen him get really riled was when Fisi beat him. That really, really got to Alonso, really found that difficult to handle.

Anthony Rowlinson (Autosport): Any particular occasion?

PS: Indy was a good example.

AR: Was it how it looked, he just couldn't get on terms with him?

PS: I believe it was. He's never been good around that circuit. It's the one circuit where he's not magic. He's OK there, but he doesn't have that extra little something.

AR: Is that a characteristic of the circuit?

PS: One assumes so. I don't really know what else you can put it down to. Quite what that characteristic is, I don't know. Indy is a circuit where it's very, very easy to over-drive, but Fernando is not a guy who normally over-drives. I really don't know what it is.

AR: What was he trying to say in Japan?

PS: I'm not sure really that we should talk too much about that. Certainly not in any detail, but I suppose in a nutshell there was an element of perhaps asking for the Michael Schumacher sort of situation, should everything be sacrificed for him and asking whether that was a better way to go racing.
Fernando Alonso leads Michael Schumacher at Monaco © XPB/LAT

AR: Is that something you've considered?

PS: Many years ago we thought about it. But it's not the way we go racing.


Alonso feels Renault deserted him in China.

Alonso said he was specifically unhappy to have to fight with his Renault teammate for position.

"For sure the team is giving us a fantastic car, but for sure in some occasions in a different view or a different approach I have felt a little alone.

"I had difficult moments in Indy, when I was not competitive, and in China I was off the pace for about ten laps and losing four seconds a lap. In these two moments, my opinion is that with the team maybe I should have had more help."

"...for sure for the team it is more important the constructors' (title)."

He did also give a lot of praise to the team for giving him a great car so I don't want to appear to be condemning him, but this is the issue cardin refers to.

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#2660 Ferrari2183

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 12:37

Autosport subscribers.


Alonso feels Renault deserted him in China.

He did also give a lot of praise to the team for giving him a great car so I don't want to appear to be condemning him, but this is the issue cardin refers to.

Thanks Buttoneer. Thing is I don't see anything malicious or shady here. Maybe I just see and read things differently.

#2661 Wingnut

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 13:51

I dont know how they could have kept Kimi, he was on a mega pay package, Massa creamed him, then recession happened.


So, Massa was directly responsible for the recession? :)


#2662 Buttoneer

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 13:59

Not shady, but he's complaining about how the team treats him and when you consider how much love for Fernando there was in the Renault team, it seems strange.

In his defence, he was at the end of a difficult title fight in which the FIA took away his mass damper and his Monza qualifying slot so emotions will have been high. You can't blame the guy for reacting.

#2663 cardin

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 18:32

I honestly didn't get that, maybe it's because I wasn't to interested at the time. Anyway, jokes on Renault for taking him back i suppose after humiliating them in the press.




No you didn't, besides the 2006 episode you mentioned, his derangement according to you is based purely on his tenure at Mclaren and his obsession with Hamilton. Which is fair enough but I for one see that as a horrible mess, it was chaotic. Once the spygate rabbit was out of the hat, all things considered, do you really think that only he would have saved his own backside. Why would a driver risk his licence for a relationship that had already reached meltdown?


Actually the last drop was the interview this year. After knowingly using info from Ferrari he was given imunity to testify against McLaren. He does it and in no small measure his testimony helps McLaren to be found guilty. That's already bad enough but to come in an interview to praise himself for having colaborated with FIA the way he did is really hard to stomach. That did it for me.
As for the 2007 McLaren afair, if you consider that, at Renault, a team totally geared towards him, he was already complaining about lack of support you can imagine how he felt at McLaren, a team much more used to give equal treatment to teamates. That's how it all started in my view.



Hamilton is an awesome driver. Name me one guy in the paddock who doesn't want to beat him? Sure he let his emotions get the better of him
but to say he is obsessed is a little ridiculous. Where was that obsession in 2008 and 2009? An obsession is an obsession after all.


That's what an obsession does to you.



LdM has always been outspoken, nothing new there, but you haven't told us why he is clueless. Yes, management should be doing a better job this year but it's the same weak management who have delivered 1 WDC and 2 WCC in the last 4 years.


Yes, they delivered a 1 WDC and 2 WCC with better cars than this year's car and most important managing two very easy going drivers. Alonso with less than half a season in a new team was already barking orders to the pitwall and we saw it again last sunday. The management is to weak to put him in his place.


As for Alonso, he has character flaws but he has proven he is capable of leading a team already. Not once, but twice. Now, please tell us why LdM is responsible for what is happening at Ferrari.

Wrong, the team leader at Renault was Briatore. Don't like the guy and think he's clueless when it comes to the technical side of F1 but, make no mistake, he was the leader.
The same as what happened at Ferrari at the time MS/Todt/Brawn were there. Do you think MS was the team leader ? Of course not, that would be, without any doubt on my part, Todt/Brawn. And if LdM haven't realized yet he doesn't have the elements necessary to built a sucessfull team then he's clueless.

#2664 cardin

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 18:34

Thanks Buttoneer. Thing is I don't see anything malicious or shady here. Maybe I just see and read things differently.


And that's not what I said. I said it raised my eyebrows but it didn't prevent me from admiring him.

#2665 buffbuff

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 01:01

I can understand Alonso in 2005 asking the team if it would be better to make him clear no. 1 and not have him fight his own teammate. Back then Schu had won 5 WDC in a row with this strategy and proved it was a hard tactic to beat. He is not going to tell them that he would like to be the clear no. 2 to Fisi, so I wouldn't criticise him for doing that.


#2666 Kovalonso

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:20

I tell you one thing.

Had Enzo been alive something would have changed already. Would it been for the better of for the worse? That's written in the stars. But one thing is for sure, there would be no complacency. There would be changes ranging from serious talks to physical confrontations. That's how it it once was. That's Ferrari's leagcy to racing. Acting with the soul as a guidelight rather than an corporate approach. It's too quite right now if you want to judge Ferrari historically. The team is losing its soul and strangely enough the Italians are doing much of the "questionable" work. It doesn't make sense! There has to be a catch somewhere.

But Enzo already showed the way.
Enzo opened the doors to foreign professionals trying to recruit the best around the world.
French Todt
English Barnard
Then...
New Zealand Byrne
English Brawn
German Schumacher
Brazilian Barrichello [the first driver from this nation]

The team became more professional and won several titles.

What Montezemolo is doing is reverting the process, transforming Ferrari in an all italian team again.


#2667 TIFOlonSO

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:49

Kovalonso, Enzo Ferrari died in 1988.
All those foreign guys that cite were contracted after it.
A bit before Enzo's death and till Montezemolo got the Ferrari presidency in 1992 a huge conflict of political influences took place at Ferrari disturbing it's sport results.
Todt was contracted by Montezemolo.
Domenicalli is Italian. So what? Italians are very competent in their job.


#2668 robefc

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 12:27

Kovalonso, Enzo Ferrari died in 1988.
All those foreign guys that cite were contracted after it.
A bit before Enzo's death and till Montezemolo got the Ferrari presidency in 1992 a huge conflict of political influences took place at Ferrari disturbing it's sport results.
Todt was contracted by Montezemolo.
Domenicalli is Italian. So what? Italians are very competent in their job.


You restrict the pool of talent from which to choose the best

#2669 aditya-now

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 13:03

I cant take those last few paragraphs very seriously. He is assuming that Alonso is responsible for the mood in the Ferrari garage while at the same time blaming him for Felipe's lacklustre body language. It's and insult to Alonso and most of all to Ferrari.


An alternative version would be that Felipe is coming more and more to realize that he is not the same anymore - hence the round, hanging shoulders. The car, which is not as strong as expected, adds, and Alonso with his strong man antics possibly compounds the problem. But, hey, this is F1!

Deep down inside Felipe might be sensing that this is as far as he will go in F1. On the podium in Interlagos 2008 my strong feeling was that that was sadly the only time Felipe had a chance to clinch the title....

Edited by aditya-now, 17 July 2010 - 13:05.


#2670 SparkPlug

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 13:30

I think the major issue with Alonso this year is, he is entering Ferrari at a time when they are declining from the heady days of success. LDM and the rest of the Ferrari team seem to have developed an ethnocentric approach, and this team is so different from the Brawn/Todt/Stepney Schumacher era. It seems to have lost the charm associated with Ferrari, and is slowly turning into a group of suits looking to promote Italian interests only.

The man at the brunt of all this is Alonso. If he can turn things around, get this Ferrari team working better and win a championship with them, it would be a great achievement. He has a lot of pressure at the moment on his shoulders, but he's done it before with Renault, and is very well capable of doing it again. The question is, will he ?

F1 seems so much more interesting when Alonso is racing at his peak (like in 2006), he seems to have lost that bulletproof consistency about him. Hamilton and Alonso going hammer and tongs at each other on track is one of the most entertaining bits of sport today.

#2671 TIFOlonSO

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 13:37

You restrict the pool of talent from which to choose the best


What do you mean?
You think Mclaren should have a italian sport director but as he is english they are acting restricting their choice?

#2672 Kovalonso

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 13:59

I think the major issue with Alonso this year is, he is entering Ferrari at a time when they are declining from the heady days of success. LDM and the rest of the Ferrari team seem to have developed an ethnocentric approach, and this team is so different from the Brawn/Todt/Stepney Schumacher era. It seems to have lost the charm associated with Ferrari, and is slowly turning into a group of suits looking to promote Italian interests only.

F1 seems so much more interesting when Alonso is racing at his peak (like in 2006), he seems to have lost that bulletproof consistency about him. Hamilton and Alonso going hammer and tongs at each other on track is one of the most entertaining bits of sport today.

Maybe choosing Alonso was another mistake from the Ferrari board.
Despite of the excellent commercial/sponsorship deal, Alonso is showing to be very dependent of the best car and Michelin tires.
Also couldn't turn things around at Renault and Kubica this season is showing a much better job there, with Renault not beaing a manufacturer anymore.
Alonso is joining the Schumacker club.

#2673 aditya-now

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 14:00

The reports of Alonsos demise are a bit premature...

There is still a long way to go. And if he wins another race soon, and Ferrari have a pretty decent car now so it's not a moot point, everything will be forgotten.


This!

It´s rubbish to discount Fernando so quickly, he´s having a horrible run of bad luck, aided by some uncharacteristic mistakes of his own making. Yet it´s not too late to turn it around for 2010.

#2674 TIFOlonSO

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 14:01

Alonso is joining the Schumacker club.


I would not go so far but indeed he joining that club. (Still 5 titles to go...)

#2675 robefc

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 14:10

What do you mean?
You think Mclaren should have a italian sport director but as he is english they are acting restricting their choice?


I mean restricting the choice of any employee for any position to one nationality, italian or otherwise, means you greatly reduce the pool of talent from which you can pick from.
I think McLaren should choose the best person for that job and any other job as should Ferrari, regardless of nationality.


#2676 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 14:18

I think the major issue with Alonso this year is, he is entering Ferrari at a time when they are declining from the heady days of success. LDM and the rest of the Ferrari team seem to have developed an ethnocentric approach, and this team is so different from the Brawn/Todt/Stepney Schumacher era. It seems to have lost the charm associated with Ferrari, and is slowly turning into a group of suits looking to promote Italian interests only.

The man at the brunt of all this is Alonso. If he can turn things around, get this Ferrari team working better and win a championship with them, it would be a great achievement. He has a lot of pressure at the moment on his shoulders, but he's done it before with Renault, and is very well capable of doing it again. The question is, will he ?

F1 seems so much more interesting when Alonso is racing at his peak (like in 2006), he seems to have lost that bulletproof consistency about him. Hamilton and Alonso going hammer and tongs at each other on track is one of the most entertaining bits of sport today.

Very sensible post. :up:

I am expecting Ferrari to make some personnel changes though. Pat Fry has recently joined and a few more are expected. Ferrari will be down-sizing their staff with regard to their Formula 1 enterprises next year, as per the resource restriction agreement. So a reshuffle is in order and I expect some new faces. This is just opinion though so don't jump down my throat.

#2677 SparkPlug

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 14:19

Maybe choosing Alonso was another mistake from the Ferrari board.
Despite of the excellent commercial/sponsorship deal, Alonso is showing to be very dependent of the best car and Michelin tires.
Also couldn't turn things around at Renault and Kubica this season is showing a much better job there, with Renault not beaing a manufacturer anymore.
Alonso is joining the Schumacker club.

I disagree. It was clear that Raikkonen was not himself after his 2007 title, so he had to be replaced. Who should Ferrari have hired instead ?
Lets see :
Michael Schumacher ? There was no guarantee of him being his old self again (as is evidenced from this year)
Robert Kubica ? Fast and promising, but still a little bit iffy if you see his 2009 performances. I dont think too many people believed he could pull a whole team together before 2010
Vettel and Hamilton ? Already booked for a long time with their teams

Come to think of it, Alonso was the only available good driver for Ferrari. Lets not forget quickly he was fantastic in his 2 championship years. A guy doesnt lose that ability overnight, I think he was the perfect choice for a marquee team like Ferrari. They needed a top driver, and they got undoubtedly one of the best. I think he will come good with Ferrari, its still early days yet


#2678 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 14:26

Maybe choosing Alonso was another mistake from the Ferrari board.
Despite of the excellent commercial/sponsorship deal, Alonso is showing to be very dependent of the best car and Michelin tires.
Also couldn't turn things around at Renault and Kubica this season is showing a much better job there, with Renault not beaing a manufacturer anymore.
Alonso is joining the Schumacker club.

In the last 20 years, name me one driver who has won the championship with a car that was not the best at some point during the season...

#2679 Kovalonso

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 14:36

I disagree. It was clear that Raikkonen was not himself after his 2007 title, so he had to be replaced.
Who should Ferrari have hired instead ?

A guy doesnt lose that ability overnight, ...


Nobody, Kimi should have stayed alongside Alonso [but Fred was afraid of him].

Or he never actually had such high levels or he lost it.
IF Kimi really lost his SISU after one WDC, whatabout Alonso w/ two WDC ?

But I don't blame Kimi, sometimes things really change inside ourselves beyond our own wishes.

But so far I haven't seem any special thing about Alonso over Kimi.
What has he done in terms of car development ?
Point out to other cars and say:
- Hey look, McLaren has a F-Duct.... and RedBull has a Blow Diffusor... Renault brings a new front winga every race !
Ferrari hasn't improved much since the dawn of the year. The car was born OK and his 0.6 sec are not enought bcs Maca evolved more than ONE whole sec.

On the downsize the hot blooded Alonso made a lot of driving and judgement mistakes, compared to Kimi, the stone cold calculist killer.

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#2680 Kovalonso

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 14:38

In the last 20 years, name me one driver who has won the championship with a car that was not the best at some point during the season...

Well, noted.
That's your opinion.
My opinion is Renault + Michelin was the best.

#2681 gaston_foix

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 14:56

Well, noted.
That's your opinion.
My opinion is Renault + Michelin was the best.

It is just your opinion... And BTW, I see alonso fast on Bridgestone also...

#2682 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 14:57

Well, noted.
That's your opinion.
My opinion is Renault + Michelin was the best.

2005 the Mclaren was the better car, it just wasn't reliable enough.
2006 the Renault had an advantage for the first 6 races or so, the Ferrari came on strong after that not to mention Renault's mass damper got removed.

#2683 AlainProstX

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 16:46

+ some people tend to forget that Renault wasn`t the only team on Michelin tires.

Hm, Im a bit disappointed with Alonso. Yes, he is very fast, but in each race there is some small mistake that ruins his chances of getting a good result.

I mean, he isn`t crashing every race, he somehow fails to deliver.

Hamilton is 49 points ahead, he must pull out a miracle like Raikkonen or this season is over.

#2684 rabbitleader

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 17:09

Apart from a few well known driver errors, Does anyone else share the view that Alonso has not been anywhere near his best this year when it comes to overtaking? For example, has Alonso blitzed the field in any race this year through rapid over taking to rise up the leader board?

This year's Ferrari may not have had top qualifying pace but for most of the season it has enjoyed strong race pace so I don't believe that this is a factor.

Edited by rabbitleader, 17 July 2010 - 17:12.


#2685 robefc

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 17:13

Apart from a few well known driver errors, Does anyone else share the view that Alonso has not been anywhere near his best this year when it comes to overtaking? For example, has Alonso blitzed the field in any race this year through rapid over taking to rise up the leader board?

This year's Ferrari may not have had top qualifying pace but for most of the season it has enjoyed strong race pace so I don't believe that this is a factor.


I think he's second only to lewis in number of overtakes, although it includes a greater number of passes on the bottom 3 teams. China and oz he overtook from near the back of the field, malaysia probably not a fair example of where he didn't.

#2686 SparkPlug

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 17:17

Apart from a few well known driver errors, Does anyone else share the view that Alonso has not been anywhere near his best this year when it comes to overtaking? For example, has Alonso blitzed the field in any race this year through rapid over taking to rise up the leader board?

This year's Ferrari may not have had top qualifying pace but for most of the season it has enjoyed strong race pace so I don't believe that this is a factor.

He did tear up the field in Australia and China to a certain extent, didnt he ?

#2687 rabbitleader

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 17:18

I think he's second only to lewis in number of overtakes, although it includes a greater number of passes on the bottom 3 teams. China and oz he overtook from near the back of the field, malaysia probably not a fair example of where he didn't.


Thanks for the info. I guess many of those overtakes were never at the centre of the racing action so were not highlighted by the TV broadcasts.

I guess my perception that he has been below par with over taking might have come from not seeing many Alonso overtakes when he has been much higher up the leader board.

Edited by rabbitleader, 17 July 2010 - 17:20.


#2688 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 17:25

He has been mighty when overtaking in the wet, other than that it has been few and far between.

#2689 rabbitleader

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 17:30

He has been mighty when overtaking in the wet, other than that it has been few and far between.


Yes....I have seen several races this year where he has been caught up in a train of cars and for whatever reason, he has not broken out of it which has surprised me. Valencia is one example but I suppose that is a difficult overtake circuit.

#2690 SparkPlug

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 17:32

Yes....I have seen several races this year where he has been caught up in a train of cars and for whatever reason, he has not broken out of it which has surprised me. Valencia is one example but I suppose that is a difficult overtake circuit.

I think your opinion is colored by the fact that he wasnt able to overtake Petrov for a long time inspite of being in a better car. However, he did pull off a lot of moves (and live on TV) this year.. Maybe you didnt notice it for whatever reason

#2691 hotstickyslick

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 17:47

To put things into perspective: Alonso has scored 98 points out of a possible 250. We know he doesn't have the best car but that is still dissapointing for someone so consistent in his championship-winning years.

#2692 Kovalonso

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 17:49

Alonso in 2010 still seems to be at Renault 2008 / 2009.
Starting from behind and trying to climb the field.
With the F10, he should constantly be up in front.

#2693 hotstickyslick

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 17:54

Alonso in 2010 still seems to be at Renault 2008 / 2009.
Starting from behind and trying to climb the field.
With the F10, he should constantly be up in front.

It's his mistakes which have cost him. Nothing wrong with his speed at all.

#2694 2ms

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 18:01

I think the major issue with Alonso this year is, he is entering Ferrari at a time when they are declining from the heady days of success. LDM and the rest of the Ferrari team seem to have developed an ethnocentric approach, and this team is so different from the Brawn/Todt/Stepney Schumacher era. It seems to have lost the charm associated with Ferrari, and is slowly turning into a group of suits looking to promote Italian interests only.

The man at the brunt of all this is Alonso. If he can turn things around, get this Ferrari team working better and win a championship with them, it would be a great achievement. He has a lot of pressure at the moment on his shoulders, but he's done it before with Renault, and is very well capable of doing it again. The question is, will he ?

F1 seems so much more interesting when Alonso is racing at his peak (like in 2006), he seems to have lost that bulletproof consistency about him. Hamilton and Alonso going hammer and tongs at each other on track is one of the most entertaining bits of sport today.


The man at the "brunt" of it was Kimi starting in 08 as soon as Todt was gone. It's been consistent since. Alonso and Massa are part of their in-group as one of their "latins" as Ferrari refer to them. Vive la Roman empire!

Problem for Alonso is that, unlike Kimi when Kimi was part of Todt's in-group, Alonso makes mistakes damn near every race whereas Kimi didn't. If he can stop, he's still in same points position relative to points leadership as Kimi was at same stage of season. So there's hope.

Edited by 2ms, 17 July 2010 - 18:05.


#2695 velgajski1

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 18:18

2005 the Mclaren was the better car, it just wasn't reliable enough.
2006 the Renault had an advantage for the first 6 races or so, the Ferrari came on strong after that not to mention Renault's mass damper got removed.


You can't say "better but not reliable enough". It's either better or it isn't. That car was faster for 2/3 of season, and slower for 1/3 of a season, but unreliable throughout the season.

#2696 velgajski1

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 18:20

In the last 20 years, name me one driver who has won the championship with a car that was not the best at some point during the season...


Hakkinen. But that was in a season where Schumacher had injury.

#2697 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 18:33

The man at the "brunt" of it was Kimi starting in 08 as soon as Todt was gone. It's been consistent since. Alonso and Massa are part of their in-group as one of their "latins" as Ferrari refer to them. Vive la Roman empire!

Problem for Alonso is that, unlike Kimi when Kimi was part of Todt's in-group, Alonso makes mistakes damn near every race whereas Kimi didn't. If he can stop, he's still in same points position relative to points leadership as Kimi was at same stage of season. So there's hope.

Todt was a huge fan of the Kimster but to blame Kimi's demise on Todt leaving is a little unfair. Although I don't support drivers per se Kimi has got to be right up there with my favourites. I loved his attitude, in that regard he was the class of the paddock. I remember when Hamilton drove into the back of him when the pitlane was closed... All he did was approach Hamilton and point to the red light. I would've beat the piss out of Hamilton in that situation. His statement: "We don't cry over spilled milk" comes to mind this year. Ferrari will do well to remember...

All this is off-topic of course.

Alonso and Kimi's situation at the same point in the championship, in their debut years for Ferrari, are eerily similar. Only difference is Kimi had the equal best car over the second half of the season. Question is, can the team provide Alonso with similar equipment and can he drive with the consistency he is known for?

#2698 Ferrari2183

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 18:37

You can't say "better but not reliable enough". It's either better or it isn't. That car was faster for 2/3 of season, and slower for 1/3 of a season, but unreliable throughout the season.

Sorry. I should have said faster. :up:

#2699 Kovalonso

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 18:54

To say that Kimi never dedicated to Ferrari is rubish.
How could he made so many fastest laps in the race.
Ferrari never had the best car, so how could he did what he did effortlessly?
At the technical meetings, if he never had a ggod direction, it is better to stay shut that do what Massa did, give fake directions just to pretend he understand something about car development.
Ferrari just kept throwing the wrong parts in the car.


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#2700 TIFOlonSO

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 05:02

Alonso and Kimi's situation at the same point in the championship, in their debut years for Ferrari, are eerily similar. Only difference is Kimi had the equal best car over the second half of the season. Question is, can the team provide Alonso with similar equipment and can he drive with the consistency he is known for?


Well put.
And mind you Kimi re-started winning a bit before mid season.
Alonso's situation is more and more pressure now. For sure only a podium at Hockenheim and a win at Hungaroring will suit our aims before the summer break.