Jump to content


Photo

Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
14493 replies to this topic

#2751 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:25

So, surely, someone is whining? It can't be imaginary, by so many people?

pointing out facts that contributed to some results is not whining, it is explaining things!


Advertisement

#2752 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:27

But the point Alonso/his fans were complaining about was not Vettel being ahead and thus being "lucky" (you make your own luck: qualify high enough and get a good start to be ahead others) the point Alonso/his fans were complaining was the fact that "WDC contender LH got more points than he should have" and thus Alonso needs to work even harder to beat him this year. If Hamilton had had his penalty immediately, he would have dropped either right behind Alonso or right infront of him, so Alonso lost One frigging point at most because of that. The real reason for whining - from both Alonso and his fans - was that Hamilton is running away in WDC because he didnt lose any points with the penalty. My question is, why didnt Vettel, Webber or Button or their fans make a noice about it? Doesnt it hurt Vettel, Webber, Button as much as it hurts Alonso if Hamilton scores points he shouldnt have?

Have you ever thought that everybody else (except Alonso and his fans) in the world can understand that it was just a lucky escape for Hamilton due to circumstances and they are fine with it - because things like that keeps happening all the time - it comes and goes, sometimes you benefit of it, sometimes you suffer for it, that´s life.

You don't get it, do you? Ferrari were the biggest losers in that situation. Up until Canada they were in the doldrums and Valencia was to be the turning point of their season. It's easy to keep your mouth shut when you have just won a race and know you have the best car on the grid by a country mile (Vettel), Button was probably just happy to have salvaged something from the weekend because he was looking pretty ordinary up until the safety car deployment, also he works for Mclaren and can't exactly piss on the teams parade.

#2753 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,970 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:30

1. no one is whining


Well, I´ve heard alot from Alonso himself and from his fans how Hamilton shouldnt have escaped penalty so easily. I also agree that he shouldn´t have, that´s not the issue thoug. What I fail to see, is how that was personal attack against Alonso to left LH out of hook so easily? In my mind, Vettel and Webber and even Button are more likely candidates for WDC than Alonso.... so how on earth Fernando was the one who suffered most when LH scored points he shouldnt have?

#2754 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:33

so how on earth Fernando was the one who suffered most when LH scored points he shouldnt have?

webber had better issues to think about
vettel won (and was satisfied), and no one should complain when winning! (if it was not a title deciding race!)
jb profited enough to be satisfied

#2755 kismet

kismet
  • Member

  • 7,068 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:36

Alonso could be leading the championship. So could Button. So could Vettel. So could Webber. And so can Hamilton.

No title contender's had a perfect season so far, not by a long shot, and that's why that 47-point deficit is a bit of a problem. We can erase Alonso's bad luck and unfortunate circumstances and it'll be just about enough to put him on par with Hamilton. Yay and woohoo! But similarly, if we erase Hamilton's, Webber's or Vettel's bad luck and unfortunate circumstances, suddenly that 47 points becomes a lot more. Swings and roundabouts.


#2756 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,970 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:37

You don't get it, do you? Ferrari were the biggest losers in that situation. Up until Canada they were in the doldrums and Valencia was to be the turning point of their season. It's easy to keep your mouth shut when you have just won a race and know you have the best car on the grid by a country mile (Vettel), Button was probably just happy to have salvaged something from the weekend because he was looking pretty ordinary up until the safety car deployment, also he works for Mclaren and can't exactly piss on the teams parade.


You have a point there that Ferrari (and Alonso) were the biggest losers in that situation... but as I said, it comes and goes- sometimes you are on lucky side, sometimes not. Whining like there was no tomorrow wont help Alonsos or Ferraris case.


#2757 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:41

Alonso could be leading the championship. So could Button. So could Vettel. So could Webber. And so can Hamilton.

No title contender's had a perfect season so far, not by a long shot, and that's why that 47-point deficit is a bit of a problem. We can erase Alonso's bad luck and unfortunate circumstances and it'll be just about enough to put him on par with Hamilton. Yay and woohoo! But similarly, if we erase Hamilton's, Webber's or Vettel's bad luck and unfortunate circumstances, suddenly that 47 points becomes a lot more. Swings and roundabouts.

regarding vettel and webber, okay! (although there bad luck were to intern quality failures and not because of failures by stewards!)
but what bad luck of hamilton do you mean (spain, okay!), and how many points in your opinion he lost through it?

Edited by YellowHelmet, 19 July 2010 - 18:47.


#2758 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:42

@ China: bad luck with 5 pit visits doesnt nullify the good luck he had with SC.

Please explain how lucky he was with the safety car. There was an early safety car I remember, and he had to serve his penalty soon after. It sent him well back. There was another safety car late in the race too though.

#2759 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:43

You have a point there that Ferrari (and Alonso) were the biggest losers in that situation... but as I said, it comes and goes- sometimes you are on lucky side, sometimes not. Whining like there was no tomorrow wont help Alonsos or Ferraris case.

who did that?
they just said that some things must be changed if f1 doesnt want to become a farce --> thats not whining, thats constructive criticism!

Advertisement

#2760 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,970 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:47

webber had better issues to think about
vettel won (and was satisfied), and no one should complain when winning! (if it was not a title deciding race!)
jb profited enough to be satisfied


I think you are not thinking clearly now. It doesn´t matter if you win or DNFd if your main rival scores points he shouldnt have scored. Points are counted after last race of season and the winner is the one who has most points, right? If Hamilton wins WDC this year over Vettel/Webber or Button with 15 points (or so), they can all look back at this event and think: "Shit, why did stewards took so long to hand the penalty". Nobody is interested then who won or lost in that one particular race, it´s the whole season that counts.

#2761 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:51

I think you are not thinking clearly now. It doesn´t matter if you win or DNFd if your main rival scores points he shouldnt have scored. Points are counted after last race of season and the winner is the one who has most points, right? If Hamilton wins WDC this year over Vettel/Webber or Button with 15 points (or so), they can all look back at this event and think: "Shit, why did stewards took so long to hand the penalty". Nobody is interested then who won or lost in that one particular race, it´s the whole season that counts.

sure it does matter! it is easier to accept the injustice! (and channel your thoughts primarily on the win!)
but if at the end of the season, this would decide the championship to the profit of LH, than we would have an ending to the championship, which would be a farce!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 19 July 2010 - 18:57.


#2762 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,970 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 19 July 2010 - 18:56

who did that?
they just said that some things must be changed if f1 doesnt want to become a farce --> thats not whining, thats constructive criticism!


Yeah, first they were on the opinion that penalties are too easy 3 weeks ago. Now they are on the opinion penalties are too heavy weak ago. In both cases penalties were what rule-book says. Thats not constructive criticism, thats wanting to have special treatment.

#2763 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 19:01

Yeah, first they were on the opinion that penalties are too easy 3 weeks ago. Now they are on the opinion penalties are too heavy weak ago. In both cases penalties were what rule-book says. Thats not constructive criticism, thats wanting to have special treatment.

no that is not their opinion!
maybe this is some summary from this bb, but that is not their opinion!
in valencia they said: that the decision time took to long
in silverstone: they said the same!

#2764 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,970 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 19 July 2010 - 19:18

no that is not their opinion!
maybe this is some summary from this bb, but that is not their opinion!
in valencia they said: that the decision time took to long
in silverstone: they said the same!


In Valencia it took too long, no-one is denying that. But it was circumstances that made it so slow, there was no conspiracy against Ferrari. There is much room for improvment in how stewards deal with any given issues, but that is different topic altogether.

In Silverstone - and I believe Wittings words here - Ferrari was informed immediately after Alonso illeagaly passed Kubica that he should give back his position or otherwise the incident would be handed to race stewards, which is a sure "drive-through" in anybodys mind if they have any sense at all. Ferrari choose not to listen and hoped for best - and then after it all went how it went, they started whining and bitching.

#2765 syph0nJZ05

syph0nJZ05
  • Member

  • 2,602 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 19:22

@ bahrain: it was some luck to gain that position due to a defect, but the possibility to win it so or so was there!

I think it would have been unlikely that he would have overtaken Vettel, especially as the Ferrari was overheating when he got within a second or so to the car in front. So it was a lucky win.

@ china: you call china luck: 5 pit visits :drunk:

Well he threw away any chance of a win by jumping the start. So he gave himself some of that 'bad luck'. On top of that quite a few people had a lot of pit-stops because of the way the race went in terms of being on the right tyre. So the fact he had 5 pit visits (one of them being his drive-threw) and still manged to finish 4th shows how much he gained with the SC.

@ monaco: you call monaco luck, because he couldnt start in qualti, coz of a crash in fp?

The fact he crashed (himself) in FP3 is irrelevant. He could have easily finished that race with no points. But because he got lucky with the safety car he manged to finish with 8 points he would have unlikely got otherwise.

@ spain: that was luck: because he had no chance to take those places without failures on other cars!

Yep, luckily got an extra 6 points while his close title rivals lost multiple points.


So to think that Alonso's season has only been unlucky is ridiculous. He has had his fair share of luck as well. As has been said a number of times; what goes around comes around. A lot of drivers have had bad luck (including Hamilton, Vettel and Button) and many have had good luck (including Alonso and Hamilton). Somebody could probably sit down and meticulously work out how many points Alonso lost and gained because of good and bad fortune, but over the course of the season these things usually equal out anyway. The fact remains that although Alonso could probably be a little higher in the WDC, I think realistically Alonso probably doesn't deserve to be in the top 3 anyway as he has made his fair share of mistakes (as has Ferrari) and in reality the F10 hasn't really been capable of directly challenging for the title (yet).

#2766 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 19:24

In Valencia it took too long, no-one is denying that. But it was circumstances that made it so slow, there was no conspiracy against Ferrari. There is much room for improvment in how stewards deal with any given issues, but that is different topic altogether.

In Silverstone - and I believe Wittings words here - Ferrari was informed immediately after Alonso illeagaly passed Kubica that he should give back his position or otherwise the incident would be handed to race stewards, which is a sure "drive-through" in anybodys mind if they have any sense at all. Ferrari choose not to listen and hoped for best - and then after it all went how it went, they started whining and bitching.

@ silverstone: there are some new news about that, which showed there way of thinking:
still they made a mistake, by misreading the situation

@ whining and bitching: maybe for a native english speaker those words are not that harsh to use, but for me they are very negative, so i try to avoid them!

#2767 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 19:29

I think it would have been unlikely that he would have overtaken Vettel, especially as the Ferrari was overheating when he got within a second or so to the car in front. So it was a lucky win.

your opinion! i think he would have won so or so, because he had the speed, and vettel began to have some problems with the tyres!


Well he threw away any chance of a win by jumping the start. So he gave himself some of that 'bad luck'. On top of that quite a few people had a lot of pit-stops because of the way the race went in terms of being on the right tyre. So the fact he had 5 pit visits (one of them being his drive-threw) and still manged to finish 4th shows how much he gained with the SC.

there was not just one sc, so please stop this polemic!



The fact he crashed (himself) in FP3 is irrelevant. He could have easily finished that race with no points. But because he got lucky with the safety car he manged to finish with 8 points he would have unlikely got otherwise.

your opinion again, i think that changed everything!





So to think that Alonso's season has only been unlucky is ridiculous. He has had his fair share of luck as well. As has been said a number of times; what goes around comes around. A lot of drivers have had bad luck (including Hamilton, Vettel and Button) and many have had good luck (including Alonso and Hamilton). Somebody could probably sit down and meticulously work out how many points Alonso lost and gained because of good and bad fortune, but over the course of the season these things usually equal out anyway. The fact remains that although Alonso could probably be a little higher in the WDC, I think realistically Alonso probably doesn't deserve to be in the top 3 anyway as he has made his fair share of mistakes (as has Ferrari) and in reality the F10 hasn't really been capable of directly challenging for the title (yet).

you are lacking objectivity (not the first time!)


#2768 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,885 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 19:33

your opinion! i think he would have won so or so, because he had the speed, and vettel began to have some problems with the tyres!

Source?

From what I can remember, nobody had problem with tyres. Vettel was controlling the race, he had no reason to push his tyres.

It was impossible to overtake in the top 8. Alonso would not have won without Vettel's car troubles.

#2769 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 19:39

Source?

comparison of the lap times!

It was impossible to overtake in the top 8. Alonso would not have won without Vettel's car troubles.

maybe it would have been hard, but the speed advanatge on hard tyres alonso had would let him all opportuniities to attack and to overtake!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 19 July 2010 - 19:40.


#2770 syph0nJZ05

syph0nJZ05
  • Member

  • 2,602 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 19:45

your opinion! i think he would have won so or so, because he had the speed, and vettel began to have some problems with the tyres!

Well Alonso got close to Vettel earlier on in the race and had to back off as his engine was overheating. Until Vettel had issues Alonso wouldn't have been able to overtake as once he got close he would have overheated again. And by the way a chance to overtake and actually being gifted the position are not the same thing in any way.

your opinion again, i think that changed everything!

The crash was his fault. The fact that he couldn't qualify (which meant he started at the back) was a result of his mistake. Starting the race at the back at Monaco means it is highly unlikely to score any points. So the fact he benefited heavily from the SC and ended up with a decent haul of points is luck.

you are lacking objectivity (not the first time!)

The fact you think Alonso hasn't had his fair share of luck this season says much more about your objectivity than mine :rolleyes: .

#2771 syph0nJZ05

syph0nJZ05
  • Member

  • 2,602 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 19:48

maybe it would have been hard, but the speed advanatge on hard tyres alonso had would let him all opportuniities to attack and to overtake!

While risking his car overheating. He backed off earlier because of that issue. Likely that he wouldn't have been able to get close for long enough.

#2772 Tombstone

Tombstone
  • Member

  • 1,122 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 20:45

'''you are lacking objectivity...


I think we have a new encyclopaedia definition of pot calling the kettle black now.


#2773 syph0nJZ05

syph0nJZ05
  • Member

  • 2,602 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 20:48

I think we have a new encyclopaedia definition of pot calling the kettle black now.

:rotfl:

#2774 ifitsgot4wheels

ifitsgot4wheels
  • New Member

  • 24 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 22:50

I am not a big fan of Alonso by any stretch of the imagination and was full of pre-conceptions about him when I saw him at Silverstone, but found him to be very courteous and polite.
I have written more about it here: http://bit.ly/bgWM6w

#2775 syph0nJZ05

syph0nJZ05
  • Member

  • 2,602 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 July 2010 - 22:59

I am not a big fan of Alonso by any stretch of the imagination and was full of pre-conceptions about him when I saw him at Silverstone, but found him to be very courteous and polite.
I have written more about it here: http://bit.ly/bgWM6w

What hotel was that? And how did you find out? :p .

#2776 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,819 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 20 July 2010 - 01:00

I am not a big fan of Alonso by any stretch of the imagination and was full of pre-conceptions about him when I saw him at Silverstone, but found him to be very courteous and polite.
I have written more about it here: http://bit.ly/bgWM6w

Interesting, just a few days ago we had some posters here saying Alonso wasn't a nice guy.

This gentleman "toxicfusion" was 100% correct. :up:

Read some of the comments on the link. Alonso spends a lot of time signing things for fans and comes across as a nice guy.

Not that it matters the poll is over :p

I suppose someone will say Santandar has forced him to be nice to fans. :rotfl:

#2777 TIFOlonSO

TIFOlonSO
  • Member

  • 324 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 20 July 2010 - 08:54

In Silverstone - and I believe Wittings words here - Ferrari was informed immediately after Alonso illeagaly passed Kubica that he should give back his position


Immediately in here is 1'55''

#2778 Gareth

Gareth
  • RC Forum Host

  • 11,026 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 July 2010 - 09:07

Please explain how lucky he was with the safety car. There was an early safety car I remember, and he had to serve his penalty soon after. It sent him well back. There was another safety car late in the race too though.

You answered your own question - the second SC was very beneficial for him. The first SC didn't cost him much, either, with his first - he only lost about 6 places from his DT even though it came soon after the first SC.

His 5 trips to the pits weren't unlucky. Of the 6 drivers for top 3 teams, 4 of them had 4 trips to the pits. Alonso's extra 1 was a DT that he caused.

#2779 Gareth

Gareth
  • RC Forum Host

  • 11,026 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 July 2010 - 09:35

Anyhow, to try and bring some balance to the whole thing, here's a list of incidents for Alonso dividend into where I consider him to have been lucky or unlucky or at fault. All off the top of my head, so additions/corrections gratefully received and I'll edit this.

Unlucky:

Australia - first corner incident

Malaysia - qualy and retirement

China - first SC

Canada - backmarkers

Valencia - SC

GB - SC

Lucky

Bahrain - Vettel and Massa mech problems

Australia - SC, Webber running Hamilton off road, EDIT TO ADD: Vettel retirement

China - second SC

Spain - Vettel and Hamilton mech problems

Monaco - SC

Mistakes:

Australia - bad start (wheelspin from being on the white lines)

China - jump start

Monaco - crash in FP so couldn't qualify

Turkey - failure to get into Q3

GB - passing Kubica off circuit (debatable - I don't consider it an error but include it with this note to try and make a complete list)

Certainly an incident packed season. The 'luck', IMO, is overall pretty balanced.

Advertisement

#2780 TIFOlonSO

TIFOlonSO
  • Member

  • 324 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 20 July 2010 - 09:50

Garret good list. :up:

I would put on bad luck not being able to do qualify at Monaco after such a minor error at FP3 that damaged the chassis.

And GB definitely I can't see any errors from Alonso - possibly from Ferrari pit wall but even so it's debatable indeed.

#2781 Massacrator

Massacrator
  • Member

  • 1,361 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 20 July 2010 - 09:51

Certainly an incident packed season. The 'luck', IMO, is overall pretty balanced.

The fact that the number of your "luck - unluck" points are balanced (5 vs 6) doesn't mean the weight and impact of them are the same.

#2782 TIFOlonSO

TIFOlonSO
  • Member

  • 324 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 20 July 2010 - 09:52

Exactly, mostly bad luck - can't see Alonso's luck balanced this year at all.

#2783 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 5,067 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 20 July 2010 - 09:54

Anyhow, to try and bring some balance to the whole thing, here's a list of incidents for Alonso dividend into where I consider him to have been lucky or unlucky or at fault. All off the top of my head, so additions/corrections gratefully received and I'll edit this.

Unlucky:

Australia - first corner incident

Malaysia - qualy and retirement

China - first SC

Canada - backmarkers

Valencia - SC

GB - SC

Lucky

Bahrain - Vettel and Massa mech problems

Australia - SC, Webber running Hamilton off road

China - second SC

Spain - Vettel and Hamilton mech problems

Monaco - SC

Mistakes:

Australia - bad start (wheelspin from being on the white lines)

China - jump start

Monaco - crash in FP so couldn't qualify

Turkey - failure to get into Q3

GB - passing Kubica off circuit (debatable - I don't consider it an error but include it with this note to try and make a complete list)

Certainly an incident packed season. The 'luck', IMO, is overall pretty balanced.


good post, the Tony Dodgins article was indeed quite surprisingly fanboyish...you could write the same thing about just any of the top 5 or 6 drivers. Why Vettel/Webber/Button etc should be leading the WDC.

Just about every one has had some decent share of luck/bad luck. The mistakes Alonso has made so far, makes him undeserving of being the current WDC leader..... sure he can cut it out and improve alot over the next 9 races...just like any other RB/Mclaren/Ferrari driver.

#2784 Gareth

Gareth
  • RC Forum Host

  • 11,026 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 July 2010 - 10:27

The fact that the number of your "luck - unluck" points are balanced (5 vs 6) doesn't mean the weight and impact of them are the same.

I agree - I wasn't trying to imply that (especially as the list is broken down by race, rather than by incident). It's difficult to judge the impact well, though.

My rough thoughts on that would be as follows:

Bahrain: probably made up 1 position thanks to Vettel mech failure. Massa's problem may have put an end to his challenge, but no way he was getting by. Gain of 7 points.

Australia: difficult one to judge as he had a mix of luck, plus his own error, in this one (+ve side: SC, Vettel retirement; -ve side: first corner incident; mistake: wheelspin off the line). Overall I think a 4th was a fair finish for him. No change.

Malaysia: Really tough one to judge - very subjective this one. But I think a normal race would have seen a 5th place finish for him (behind the RBs and the Macs). Loss of 10 points.

China: surprised by this but looking at the gap chart I think SC at the end actually only gained him one place (Kubica's) that he wouldn't otherwise have got. So 2 point gain.

Spain: finished 2nd rather than 4th, 6 point gain.

Monaco: iirc, he lost one place that he had gained prior to the SC thanks to pitting during the SC. Let's assume that this, plus being a bit slower at passing as he was on hards, cost him 10s. Then let's add a pitstop for him around the time everyone else pitted (24s), so add a net 14s to his time on lap 30 (giving him the beenfit of an extremely late stop) and he comes out in 10th. Assuming he can't overtake Sutil round Monaco (reasonable, IMO) he then finishes there. Net gain of 7 points.

Turkey: neutral.

Canada: backmarkers are part of the game, but he was effected too much IMO. Net loss of between 3 and 10 points.

Europe: without an SC would almost certainly have finished 3rd and would have been in with a shout for 2nd (definite if McLaren had changed the front wing at the first stop, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have, so would have relied on Alonso passing on a circuit that's very difficult to). Net loss of between 11 and 14 points.

GB: Net loss of up to 15 points (if you think the FIA decision was harsh) down to 0 points (if you think it was fair and it was entirely Alonso/Ferrari's fault they got the DT as they should have ceded the position immediately).

So adding that up, I get a gain of 22 points and a loss of between 24 and 49 (depending on how you view certain incidents). So overall the luck has been against him, but it's somewhere between marginally against and a fair bit against. Even on the most generous reading though, he would still be nearly a full win off the WDC lead.

EDIT: and I realise loads of the above his hugely subjective. I have tried to be even handed but am sure plenty will disagree with loads of the points I've made. Whilst the list of incidents can be reasonably objective, it's impossible to weight the significance of the incidents (as you kind of asked in the post above) without loads of subjective judgements. So please don't shoot me for trying if I get it wrong/you disagree in places. :)

#2785 toxicfusion

toxicfusion
  • Member

  • 523 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 20 July 2010 - 10:37

Interesting, just a few days ago we had some posters here saying Alonso wasn't a nice guy.

This gentleman "toxicfusion" was 100% correct. :up:

I suppose someone will say Santandar has forced him to be nice to fans. :rotfl:



He has a lot of time for the fans. I remember a picture from the Canadian Grand Prix where he signed a McLaren hat from his time there.

The British media portray Alonso as the villain, which is understandable I suppose, but he isn't at all.

#2786 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 20 July 2010 - 11:03

So adding that up, I get a gain of 22 points and a loss of between 24 and 49 (depending on how you view certain incidents). So overall the luck has been against him, but it's somewhere between marginally against and a fair bit against. Even on the most generous reading though, he would still be nearly a full win off the WDC lead.


Great analysis.

For me a lot of the damage has been done by bad luck basically amplifying an initial error.

Being passed by the Macs in Canada was poor racecraft IMO, likewise at Silverstone the Kubica incident would have been trivial if he'd used good judgment. In Malaysia he didn't have to further risk his clutchless drivetrain by taking on JB. In Valencia he could have been closer to LH, tucked right up or partly alongside and followed him past the SC.

So I'm not shedding too many tears for him tbh. He's had more control over events than some are claiming.

#2787 Taxi

Taxi
  • Member

  • 3,074 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 20 July 2010 - 11:42

the author of that autosport article must think [i've not read the article at all] that alonso should be leading because:

1-He made to many mistakes by his standards

2- he his virtualy the nº 1 at Ferrari unlike the Red Bull and Mclaren batle for the lead.

But:
1- Fernando Alonso is a great champion and an execelent driver in any circunstance.

2- he's making Massa Look completly average

3- The Championship is very long yet and he will make a comeback even if it's tough to be WC this year.

#2788 LuckyStrike1

LuckyStrike1
  • Member

  • 5,905 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:17

the author of that autosport article must think [i've not read the article at all] that alonso should be leading because:

1-He made to many mistakes by his standards

2- he his virtualy the nº 1 at Ferrari unlike the Red Bull and Mclaren batle for the lead.

But:
1- Fernando Alonso is a great champion and an execelent driver in any circunstance.

2- he's making Massa Look completly average

3- The Championship is very long yet and he will make a comeback even if it's tough to be WC this year.


Maybe you should read the article?

If you would, your post would not have been necessary.

#2789 Taxi

Taxi
  • Member

  • 3,074 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:38

Maybe you should read the article?

If you would, your post would not have been necessary.


Maybe you should pay me a subscrition. If you would, your post would not have been necessary.

#2790 slideways

slideways
  • Member

  • 3,319 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:54

Maybe you should pay me a subscrition. If you would, your post would not have been necessary.


Maybe you should get a job. If you would, your post would not have been necessary.

Sorry, just trying to blend in I don't usually visit this thread. :)


I agree that Tony's recent article wasn't so great. Read like a bad debate team, on the losing side.

Gareth I firmly mark Sepang Q1 as a mistake. Some points:

Of the top 8 cars, only Vettel set an early banker. (the teams all used the same strategy).
The remaining 7 left in the following order: Button, Schumacher, Hamilton, Alonso, Massa, Webber, Rosberg.
While Alonso was pirouetting, Webber and Rosberg set their first hot laps and made it through to the next session.

#2791 LuckyStrike1

LuckyStrike1
  • Member

  • 5,905 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:57

Maybe you should pay me a subscrition. If you would, your post would not have been necessary.



I highly recommend you to get a subscription. It's worth it in my opinion.

If that's not possible, I recommend to comment only on things one have a vague idea about at least. Such as reading an articlenk one want to comment on ;)

For the record - pretty good article I thought. Not sure I entirely agree with the woulda, shoulda, coulda line of reasoning but the article was based on fact, and the conclusion I think hit the point. Alonso is not a moron for saying he is still in the title fight etc. etc. which was the base for the article.

#2792 Flamini

Flamini
  • Member

  • 849 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 20 July 2010 - 13:21

Maybe you should get a job. If you would, your post would not have been necessary.

Sorry, just trying to blend in I don't usually visit this thread. :)


I agree that Tony's recent article wasn't so great. Read like a bad debate team, on the losing side.

Gareth I firmly mark Sepang Q1 as a mistake. Some points:

Of the top 8 cars, only Vettel set an early banker. (the teams all used the same strategy).
The remaining 7 left in the following order: Button, Schumacher, Hamilton, Alonso, Massa, Webber, Rosberg.
While Alonso was pirouetting, Webber and Rosberg set their first hot laps and made it through to the next session.


Watch Sepang again, because Webber and Rosberg set their first hot laps a lot earlier than Alonso did a pirouette.

Trulli, Massa, Alonso, Chandhok, Senna, Hamilton, di Grassi - that was 5 minutes before the end.

And Alonso spun after that.

#2793 Taxi

Taxi
  • Member

  • 3,074 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 20 July 2010 - 13:27

I highly recommend you to get a subscription. It's worth it in my opinion.

If that's not possible, I recommend to comment only on things one have a vague idea about at least. Such as reading an articlenk one want to comment on ;)

For the record - pretty good article I thought. Not sure I entirely agree with the woulda, shoulda, coulda line of reasoning but the article was based on fact, and the conclusion I think hit the point. Alonso is not a moron for saying he is still in the title fight etc. etc. which was the base for the article.


I'm sorry. :kiss:

#2794 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 7,423 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 21 July 2010 - 10:50

Alonso video preview for the German GP.

http://www.ferrari.c.../...ideo&cat=13

I have a good feeling. :kiss:

#2795 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:37

I pray for no mistakes, no safety car, no mid-field running. I want to see the genuine race pace of the F10 and a strong drive from Mr. Alonso.

#2796 Massacrator

Massacrator
  • Member

  • 1,361 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:47

I pray for no mistakes, no safety car, no mid-field running. I want to see the genuine race pace of the F10 and a strong drive from Mr. Alonso.

That's what I want too.

Would be nice to see the first 6 positions taken by RBR, Ferrari & McLaren to see a clear fight and performance of the cars.

#2797 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,819 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:54

That's what I want too.

Would be nice to see the first 6 positions taken by RBR, Ferrari & McLaren to see a clear fight and performance of the cars.

I agree. This may be a wild card race though. I have seen reports that it may be a wet weekend, odds are pretty high that Friday will be very wet, Saturday wet and Sunday will be quite cool. Still early though. The weather may improve by then.

Here is one report, read first few line:

http://www.jamesalle...over-german-gp/

#2798 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 21 July 2010 - 13:17

I agree. This may be a wild card race though. I have seen reports that it may be a wet weekend, odds are pretty high that Friday will be very wet, Saturday wet and Sunday will be quite cool. Still early though. The weather may improve by then.

Here is one report, read first few line:

http://www.jamesalle...over-german-gp/

A wet grand prix will give us an exciting race but with a strong possibility of a safety car and we all know that Alonso and safety cars are a match made in heaven... :lol:

#2799 AlanWake

AlanWake
  • Member

  • 1,610 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 21 July 2010 - 13:55

"I've been in Maranello four days last week working with the team," :eek: Alonso said in a video interview for Ferrari's website.

"Overall I felt a very good atmosphere in the team. All the guys in Maranello are very, very focused on fighting for this championship.

"After these two bad races people are even more motivated than before because they feel we deserve a good race finally."


:up: :up: :up:

I am very impressed at what a hard worker Alonso is. When he was driving for Renault, he used to visit Enstone factory many many times, I'm not sure if he was a frequent visitor to Woking in 2007, I bet not ;)

I am sure that he is already well loved in Maranello, so can you imagine what will happen when he starts to win races again :clap:

Advertisement

#2800 Anssi

Anssi
  • Member

  • 1,899 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 21 July 2010 - 16:48

Wow, what a guy. Goes to the headquarters of his employer, and works, like, an employee. This is amazing. How can someone go to work and then work. This is definitely breaking news.