Jump to content


Photo

Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
14493 replies to this topic

#2851 Aerosoul

Aerosoul
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 14:50

Alonso is MEGA. He is going to lead this team into victory

Advertisement

#2852 AlanWake

AlanWake
  • Member

  • 1,610 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 14:51

That's not underrating, that's just thinking somebody might be better, how does that make him not a great qualifier?


I think some people underrate him a bit, because Alonso has always showed us that when he has the car AND THE TEAM, he can be as fast as anybody.

#2853 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 14:53

I think some people underrate him a bit, because Alonso has always showed us that when he has the car AND THE TEAM, he can be as fast as anybody.

that is an understatement

giving those conditions, he is almost unbeatable!

#2854 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 July 2010 - 14:54

I think some people underrate him a bit, because Alonso has always showed us that when he has the car AND THE TEAM, he can be as fast as anybody.

I don't think that's an arguable point to anybody that understands this sport. It happens a lot, mostly by fans who don't understand much and just try to up their preferred driver by belittling the other.

#2855 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 July 2010 - 14:55

that is an understatement

giving those conditions, he is almost unbeatable!

Ya, that could almost be said for 75% of the grid though.

#2856 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,858 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:02

that is an understatement

giving those conditions, he is almost unbeatable!


:lol:

#2857 Redstorm

Redstorm
  • Member

  • 343 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:07

Considering there was only 0.002 between them its difficult to say who has the best car at Hock. We can only really say they are pretty evenly matched here (for qualifying at least).

The SpeedTV crew converted it out to a difference of 0.6in/1.5cm...... It really WAS just THIS(holds thumb and index finger slightly apart) close!

#2858 Hole

Hole
  • Member

  • 2,232 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:10

Erm, with best car the 2nd place isnt something to celebrate at.


The best car is on pole. And sorry, but yes, starting 2nd and so up is a reason to celebrate. :wave:

#2859 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,858 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:29

The best car is on pole. And sorry, but yes, starting 2nd and so up is a reason to celebrate. :wave:



Just to check: is it always best car that is on pole in your view, or if - say Alonso would have been 0.003 secs faster - would it have been second (or third or even fourth) fastest car on pole?

Is there any other measure you use for evaluating which car is fastest apart Alonsos grid position? Was Ferrari behind Redbull, Mclaren, Mercedes, Renault, ForceIndia in Turkey?

Advertisement

#2860 mkay

mkay
  • Member

  • 2,506 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:30

Great lap by Fernando! Not only did he crush his teammate, he just barely missed pole. He is surely favorite for the win, unless we get another SC episode. These days, it seems no one can beat him except for SCs!

#2861 Aerosoul

Aerosoul
  • Member

  • 82 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:32

Great lap by Fernando! Not only did he crush his teammate, he just barely missed pole. He is surely favorite for the win, unless we get another SC episode. These days, it seems no one can beat him except for SCs!


Massa has his own issues, he just needs to hit the sweet spot. He was lucky Webbo went wide otherwise he wouldn't be no. 3

#2862 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,858 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:33

Great lap by Fernando! Not only did he crush his teammate, he just barely missed pole. He is surely favorite for the win, unless we get another SC episode. These days, it seems no one can beat him except for SCs!


Ah, great to see Mclaren fan so happy for enemy doing well. :drunk:

#2863 mkay

mkay
  • Member

  • 2,506 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:34

Ah, great to see Mclaren fan so happy for enemy doing well. :drunk:


It's not an enemy. He is a competitor. Furthermore, I like Fernando and the year he drove for McLaren was one of the best years in F1 in recent memory (ie. decade).

#2864 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:36

Ah, great to see Mclaren fan so happy for enemy doing well. :drunk:

he is just being objective :up:

#2865 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,858 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:38

the year he drove for McLaren was one of the best years in F1 in recent memory (ie. decade).


It truly was, firstly because Kimi won WDC and secondly because a rookie driver put Fernando in his place. One of the greatest years in recent history of Formula 1, that´s for sure.

#2866 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,858 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:39

he is just being objective :up:


I appreciate that. :up:

#2867 Trust

Trust
  • Member

  • 3,170 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:40

Have a feeling that Nando will ruin his start once again....
He really needs to get his starts working, starting from tomorrow.

But if Massa pulls his start, it could be tight in first corner resulting in another catastrophe. :drunk:

#2868 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:40

It truly was, firstly because Kimi won WDC and secondly because a rookie driver put Fernando in his place. One of the greatest years in recent history of Formula 1, that´s for sure.

even with the help of the team for hamilton and vice versa with the mistreatment in team alonso faced, alonso beated hamilton 10 : 7 in races!
still it was one of the most entertaining seasons. Alonso against the imperium!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 24 July 2010 - 15:41.


#2869 Flamini

Flamini
  • Member

  • 793 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:43

Erm, with best car the 2nd place isnt something to celebrate at.


Why do you think that Ferrari is faster than Red Bull? You are so sure that Ferrari is faster that I'm sure you are F1 insider - you have to have some important data, right?

Please, give us this data. Thanks in advance.

:lol:

#2870 Mackey

Mackey
  • Member

  • 1,393 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:43

It truly was, firstly because Kimi won WDC and secondly because a rookie driver put Fernando in his place. One of the greatest years in recent history of Formula 1, that´s for sure.


Yeah, driving a Ferrari Formula 1 car, while the "great" Kimi (1xWDC) is crashing a Citroen C4 into the trees.


#2871 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:43

Have a feeling that Nando will ruin his start once again....
He really needs to get his starts working, starting from tomorrow.

:drunk:
again?

silverstone was not down to alonso, he had problems with the clutch and in australia it was a start in rain, where he putted his car on a wrong place (we are talking about centimeters)
alonso is always starting good
NOT to forget starts are almost all down to the technic and just to a small amount about drivers!

#2872 AlanWake

AlanWake
  • Member

  • 1,610 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:43

Webber made a mistake and Vettel said in the press conference that he didn't manage to get a perfect lap, so I have no doubt Red Bull was the fastest car today again.

#2873 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:44

even with the help of the team for hamilton and vice versa with the mistreatment in team alonso faced, alonso beated hamilton 10 : 7 in races!
still it was one of the most entertaining seasons. Alonso against the imperium!

Well I think the fact a rookie was able to beat him 7 times and wind up tied in points makes quite a mark. Counter that to Robens/Hulk or Kubica/Petrov.

#2874 beanoid

beanoid
  • Member

  • 5,247 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:46

Can we get the frick over what happened three bloody years ago, please?

#2875 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:46

Webber made a mistake and Vettel said in the press conference that he didn't manage to get a perfect lap, so I have no doubt Red Bull was the fastest car today again.

And so, it is on Pole YAY!!!

So, what's your point?

#2876 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,260 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:46

Yeah, driving a Ferrari Formula 1 car, while the "great" Kimi (1xWDC) is crashing a Citroen C4 into the trees.



The great kimi won WDC the first year with ferrari, and he hadn't made so many mistakes like Alonso.

Edited by Massa, 24 July 2010 - 15:47.


#2877 AlainProstX

AlainProstX
  • Member

  • 306 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:47

But then, Massa himself as well as Domenicali and even Alonso have all stated that Massa is having troubles with this years car in order to get tyres working. So how can you use "Webber coulda/shoulda/woulda have beat Massa" as an evidence of Redbull being faster car is beyond me. If you look at whole weekend between Massa and Webber, which I am sure you wont, you will see that they have been quite equal Massa being ahead 2 or 3 times and Webber being ahead 2 or 3 times before q3. The gap was usually around one tenth in those 3 FPs and in q1 and q2. You cant be more evenly matched than that, can you? The only problem is, Massa has underperformed big time this year as told by himself, his team, his teammate etc. So if Massa can match with his current form a Redbull driver, then Ferrari is superior car for sure.


So if Alonso beats Massa by (lets say) 4 tenths, it just shows that Massa had some problem.
If Vettel beats Webber by 4 tenths, it shows Vettels superior skill.

I like your logic.

By the way, it was stated several times that Webber made a mistake that ruined is last 2 laps in Q3. Till that, he was always on par with Massa and Vettel (If you consider the tire they used to set their times).

I think the word "butthurt" describes your attempts to bash anything that has to do with Alonso and Ferrari best.

Ferrari/Alonso fans, don`t feed the troll. Lets hope that Alonso gets a good result tomorow. And... never understimate the Mclarens...

#2878 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:48

Well I think the fact a rookie was able to beat him 7 times and wind up tied in points makes quite a mark. Counter that to Robens/Hulk or Kubica/Petrov.

counter that to the relationship lewis has/had with mclaren (for more than a decade) and the mistreatment in team which alonso faced, than you know, that experience is more than levelled with that.

just think that hulk was allied with frank for more than 10 years and that frank mistreats bar than it would be harder for bar too!


#2879 Hole

Hole
  • Member

  • 2,232 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:48

The great kimi win WDC the first year with ferrari, and he hadn't made so many mistake like Alonso.


Even taking into account Alonso's mistakes, season 2007 and season 2010 are completely different, so quite unfair to use against Alonso.


Always that Alonso does nice, people bring out Kimi and Hamilton, season 2007 or even earlier, in the Alonso thread to do flamebite. Cute.

Edited by AdamKOR, 24 July 2010 - 15:50.


Advertisement

#2880 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:49

The great kimi won WDC the first year with ferrari, and he hadn't made so many mistakes like Alonso.

how many mistakes made alonso so far?

#2881 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:50

counter that to the relationship lewis has/had with mclaren (for more than a decade) and the mistreatment in team which alonso faced, than you know, that experience is more than levelled with that.

just think that hulk was allied with frank for more than 10 years and that frank mistreats bar than it would be harder for bar too!

LOL so, if you have a great relationship with LDM for the next 10 years you can jump in the Ferrari and blitz the F1 field? I didn't know it was that simple man!!!! :up:

#2882 Hole

Hole
  • Member

  • 2,232 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:52

LOL so, if you have a great relationship with LDM for the next 10 years you can jump in the Ferrari and blitz the F1 field? I didn't know it was that simple man!!!! :up:


That's as naive as suggesting Briatore and Renault never had any bias towards Alonso in comparison to their team mates. IMO yes, McLaren loving Hamilton for 10 years as Briatore did to Alonso is something to take into account IMO.

#2883 YellowHelmet

YellowHelmet
  • Member

  • 3,800 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:53

LOL so, if you have a great relationship with LDM for the next 10 years you can jump in the Ferrari and blitz the F1 field? I didn't know it was that simple man!!!! :up:

?
hamilton tested longer for mclaren than alonso did!
alonso was the rookie in the mclaren team!
alonso was used on michelins (lewis struggled on them!)
bridgestones fitted lewis sligthly better
the team favourised lewis
dennis even attacked alonso via press several times!



#2884 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,260 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:56

how many mistakes made alonso so far?


at Start in Australia, at start in China, in FP3 at Monaco, Q2 in Turkey, at Silverstone with Kubica, he hit Massa and he had a poor start etc...

#2885 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,858 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:57

how many mistakes made alonso so far?


Too many for a regular viewer to keep the score anymore. Certainly more than Kimi made during his whole Ferrari career.

#2886 Hole

Hole
  • Member

  • 2,232 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:57

at Start in Australia, at start in China, in FP3 at Monaco, Q2 in Turkey, at Silverstone with Kubica, he hit Massa and he had a poor start etc...


He hit Massa was his mistake? You wish. On startings there are contacts, a racing incident.

#2887 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 July 2010 - 15:58

?
hamilton tested longer for mclaren than alonso did!
alonso was the rookie in the mclaren team!
alonso was used on michelins (lewis struggled on them!)
bridgestones fitted lewis sligthly better
the team favourised lewis
dennis even attacked alonso via press several times!

1. And?
2. he was a 2 time champ, and?
3. and?
4. how so?
5. after Alonso had blown his relationship with the boss
6. so? it's all got to do with answer 5.

When you're a rookie everything is new, hence, the experienced driver will have an advantage, no matter what the relationship, or preferences of the team are. That's just common sense.

Just for the record, I haven't at all stated that Hamilton is better than Alonso, or anything like that, I only said Hamilton's performance relative to Alonso is impressive.

#2888 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,260 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:01

He hit Massa was his mistake? You wish. On startings there are contacts, a racing incident.


He ruined Massa race. That's all.

#2889 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,858 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:02

So if Alonso beats Massa by (lets say) 4 tenths, it just shows that Massa had some problem.
If Vettel beats Webber by 4 tenths, it shows Vettels superior skill.

I like your logic.

By the way, it was stated several times that Webber made a mistake that ruined is last 2 laps in Q3. Till that, he was always on par with Massa and Vettel (If you consider the tire they used to set their times).

I think the word "butthurt" describes your attempts to bash anything that has to do with Alonso and Ferrari best.

Ferrari/Alonso fans, don`t feed the troll. Lets hope that Alonso gets a good result tomorow. And... never understimate the Mclarens...


Where did I say that Webber didnt make mistake? All I said was that Massa and Webber were as equal as two drivers can be in FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1 and Q2. Considering Massa has huge problems with his car/tyres this year while Webber is truly happy with his package, I would say Ferrari is easily the best car this weekend.

#2890 Flamini

Flamini
  • Member

  • 793 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:05

Where did I say that Webber didnt make mistake? All I said was that Massa and Webber were as equal as two drivers can be in FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1 and Q2. Considering Massa has huge problems with his car/tyres this year while Webber is truly happy with his package, I would say Ferrari is easily the best car this weekend.


Massa said himself in interview that he had problems with tyres in Australia, Barcelona and Silverstone.

And ONLY there.

#2891 Mackey

Mackey
  • Member

  • 1,393 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:07

at Start in Australia, at start in China, in FP3 at Monaco, Q2 in Turkey, at Silverstone with Kubica, he hit Massa and he had a poor start etc...


If you take that as a mistake, all drivers have made lot sof mistakes this year. For example, when Massa qualifies +0.4 seconds slower than Alonso, is that a mistake??


#2892 JKTRacing

JKTRacing
  • Member

  • 184 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:10

Well I think the fact a rookie was able to beat him 7 times and wind up tied in points makes quite a mark. Counter that to Robens/Hulk or Kubica/Petrov.



Hamilton might have been just a rookie, but he had raced side by side in Ron Dennis team since he joined Young-Guns when he was 12-13.

You call yourself Birelman, you should know that Hamilton has been in motor racing all his life, weekend in weekend out, so please, cut the rookie crap.

Edited by JKTRacing, 24 July 2010 - 16:11.


#2893 Flamini

Flamini
  • Member

  • 793 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:11

"One of Massa's main problems during qualifying has been getting the tyres to hit their optimum temperature - about 100C - during his out lap. The problem is magnified when Bridgestone brings its harder tyres, like it did at the British Grand Prix, but Massa is confident he has found a solution.

"It was not the first time I had these problems, I had these problems in Barcleona and in Melbourne," Massa said. "This year we have very hard tyres and these tyres are difficult to get to work and get up to temperature. On tracks that were a little bit cold and not as abrasive, I was always struggling in qualifying with getting the tyres up to temperature.
"

source: http://en.espnf1.com...tory/23735.html

You see yr? 3 races from 10! What about other 7 races?

#2894 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:17

Hamilton might have been just a rookie, but he had raced side by side in Ron Dennis team since he joined Young-Guns when he was 12-13.

You call yourself Birelman, you should know that Hamilton has been in motor racing all his life, weekend in weekend out, so please, cut the rookie crap.

Oh yea, I know Hamilton from back then. I know he lived under McLaren's wing his whole Karting life, what advantage exactly does that give him in Formula 1 as a rookie though? Sure, he's probably the best prepared Rookie of all time, If he had been paired with Heidfeld and do what he did, yea, that's a normal very well prepared rookie. The fact was, he did it in direct comparison with the reighning 2 time champ. Not just ANY 2 time champ, as I think Alonso is one of the greats of all time, so, yea, I'd say, Hamilton faired impressively. Mind you, I am not a fan of Hamilton, or Alonso. But credit where it's due.

#2895 Flamini

Flamini
  • Member

  • 793 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:21

Yr, look at this:

"My final lap wasn't 100% perfect and there were a couple of places where I went over the limit, which cost me some time"

Vettel after qualy.

You are still sure that Ferrari is faster than Red Bull?



#2896 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:22

Yr, look at this:

"My final lap wasn't 100% perfect and there were a couple of places where I went over the limit, which cost me some time"

Vettel after qualy.

You are still sure that Ferrari is faster than Red Bull?

Drivers are rarely 100% satisfied with their laps. This doesn't prove anything. Red Bull might still be the faster car, it might not have been for this particular session, we never know.

#2897 JKTRacing

JKTRacing
  • Member

  • 184 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:24

Oh yea, I know Hamilton from back then. I know he lived under McLaren's wing his whole Karting life, what advantage exactly does that give him in Formula 1 as a rookie though? Sure, he's probably the best prepared Rookie of all time, If he had been paired with Heidfeld and do what he did, yea, that's a normal very well prepared rookie. The fact was, he did it in direct comparison with the reighning 2 time champ. Not just ANY 2 time champ, as I think Alonso is one of the greats of all time, so, yea, I'd say, Hamilton faired impressively. Mind you, I am not a fan of Hamilton, or Alonso. But credit where it's due.


I bet you were one of does guys that said: "wow where did this Raikkonen guy come from???" when he first jumped to F1 after XX single seater races.



Ask any driver, if their speed has changed since they joined F1, they will all say a big NO.


Things like "experience" and "maturity" are just words untalented people use (like all the ITV commentators,specially David Coulthard) to explain their lack of speed when they first join F1, and then they use that "experience" to keep their job


Edit: You answered your own question, see bold
So you are telling me, that Ron Dennis personally paid, followed, created Hamiltons career since he was a teenager, so he can put him side by side with the best F1 driver of the moment and give them both the same treatment? you are either very naive, or very stupid

Edited by JKTRacing, 24 July 2010 - 16:32.


#2898 Flamini

Flamini
  • Member

  • 793 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:36

Drivers are rarely 100% satisfied with their laps. This doesn't prove anything. Red Bull might still be the faster car, it might not have been for this particular session, we never know.


Ok, we never know, but hey, this 'yr' guy was first on this thread who said that one car is faster than another (Ferrari faster than Red Bull).

So i just asked him why does he think that. I don't know which car is faster, but he seems to know, right?

He said something that Massa had problems with the tyres. Yes - in Barcelona, Australia and Silverstone. In official Ferrari press release nobody mentioned tyres problem today.

I really don't know what is he talking about. I hope you understand me. There is no evidence that Red Bull was slower than Ferrari today, but he is sure about that only because he wants to discredit Alonso.







#2899 yr

yr
  • Member

  • 5,858 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:37

"One of Massa's main problems during qualifying has been getting the tyres to hit their optimum temperature - about 100C - during his out lap. The problem is magnified when Bridgestone brings its harder tyres, like it did at the British Grand Prix, but Massa is confident he has found a solution.

"It was not the first time I had these problems, I had these problems in Barcleona and in Melbourne," Massa said. "This year we have very hard tyres and these tyres are difficult to get to work and get up to temperature. On tracks that were a little bit cold and not as abrasive, I was always struggling in qualifying with getting the tyres up to temperature.
"

source: http://en.espnf1.com...tory/23735.html

You see yr? 3 races from 10! What about other 7 races?


Well, maybe the crash still had its impact, who knows. What I do know though, is that Massa was one of fastest qualifiers there is. He did quite fine in 2006 against Schumi in second half of season, his grid-positions in last 9 races were: 2-2-3-2-1-4-20-1-1. That was better than Schumachers (who was clear #1 at time) including 3 poles! Now he is 0.4 sec behind Alonso and you think thats their real difference? Driver who could match Schumi (the old Schumi who was fighting for WDC till last race) is suddenly almost half a second slower to someone?

Trulli was faster than Alonso when they were team mates, now Trulli is equal to Kovalainen - do you think Kovalainen is also therefore faster than Alonso, eh? You just cant compare drivers in different years, in different cars for different teammates and draw conclusions, it just wont work.

Edited by yr, 24 July 2010 - 16:42.


Advertisement

#2900 Birelman

Birelman
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:38

I bet you were one of does guys that said: "wow where did this Raikkonen guy come from???" when he first jumped to F1 after XX single seater races.



Ask any driver, if their speed has changed since they joined F1, they will all say a big NO.


Things like "experience" and "maturity" are just words untalented people use (like all the ITV commentators,specially David Coulthard) to explain their lack of speed when they first join F1, and then they use that "experience" to keep their job


Edit: You answered your own question, see bold

No, I said wow about Raikkonen when I saw him Karting, and my mechanic shared the same opinion.

While a driver's speed is never quantifiable, certainly not objectively by themselves. It is a given gift, and is a natural thing, yes, as a rookie you can be naturally just as quick as in your 10th year, however, while your natural speed might be perfect in your first year, your knowledge of setups, basic and non basic characteristics of the car, tires, engines, etc. and different conditions are still just getting honed, so, yea, a rookie driver is always in a disadvantage to the more experienced, that's what experience is for, after all.

If you take Hamilton that rookie season, and Hamilton 10 years from now, you will find a much different Hamilton, one who is much more polished up, this can even be seen already.