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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#2901 Birelman

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:41

I bet you were one of does guys that said: "wow where did this Raikkonen guy come from???" when he first jumped to F1 after XX single seater races.



Ask any driver, if their speed has changed since they joined F1, they will all say a big NO.


Things like "experience" and "maturity" are just words untalented people use (like all the ITV commentators,specially David Coulthard) to explain their lack of speed when they first join F1, and then they use that "experience" to keep their job


Edit: You answered your own question, see bold
So you are telling me, that Ron Dennis personally paid, followed, created Hamiltons career since he was a teenager, so he can put him side by side with the best F1 driver of the moment and give them both the same treatment? you are either very naive, or very stupid

I see you updated your post to include an insult to me calling me stupid, which I don't deserve, as I have treated you with respect throughout our conversation.

What I find odd is, why would Ron Dennis pay Alonso millions just to put him on a second driver role to a rookie, however talented, or prepared, or loved, a rookie, is always an unknown quantity.

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#2902 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:48

What I find odd is, why would Ron Dennis pay Alonso millions just to put him on a second driver role to a rookie, however talented, or prepared, or loved, a rookie, is always an unknown quantity.

he didnt!
Alonso brought some new sponsors with him!

#2903 Birelman

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:50

he didnt!
Alonso brought some new sponsors with him!

Oh I get it, Dennis brought in some new sponsors to pay for Lewis's ride, he didn't care that he had the double WDC in his arsenal at all, I get it now, it's so simple! :up: :rolleyes:

I wonder if you're really a fan of his, you're effectively calling your man a pay driver.

Edited by Birelman, 24 July 2010 - 16:54.


#2904 billkaos

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:51

Trulli was faster than Alonso when they were team mates, now Trulli is equal to Kovalainen - do you think Kovalainen is also therefore faster than Alonso, eh? You just cant compare drivers in different years, in different cars for different teammates and draw conclusions, it just wont work.

18. Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 1:17.583
19. Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 1:18.300

Sorry yr, but you most of your opinions in this thread are incorrect. I guess that's due you are heavily biased against FA.

#2905 Flamini

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:51

Well, maybe the crash still had its impact, who knows. What I do know though, is that Massa was one of fastest qualifiers there is. He did quite fine in 2006 against Schumi in second half of season, his grid-positions in last 9 races were: 2-2-3-2-1-4-20-1-1. That was better than Schumachers (who was clear #1 at time) including 3 poles! Now he is 0.4 sec behind Alonso and you think thats their real difference? Driver who could match Schumi (the old Schumi who was fighting for WDC till last race) is suddenly almost half a second slower to someone?

Trulli was faster than Alonso when they were team mates, now Trulli is equal to Kovalainen - do you think Kovalainen is also therefore faster than Alonso, eh? You just cant compare drivers in different years, in different cars for different teammates and draw conclusions, it just wont work.


I know. It's just amazed me why you are always against Alonso. Even today, when he had a great day, you are still sure that he was poor because Ferrari is faster. Ferrari is faster because of what? Because Alonso couldn't have a good day?



#2906 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:01

18. Trulli Lotus-Cosworth 1:17.583
19. Kovalainen Lotus-Cosworth 1:18.300

Sorry yr, but you most of your opinions in this thread are incorrect. I guess that's due you are heavily biased against FA.


erm, I wasnt talking about one race but whole season, which is in qual battle 6-5 in Trullis favour. That is as close as it can be be. Bad day for Kovalainen today, yesterday they were equal 5-5 with Trulli though, but in 11 quals one had to have be on top as it cant be 5,5 - 5,5 - got it? And to add misery for your already lost debate, Kovalainen is well ahead Trulli in WDC table.

#2907 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:05

I wonder if you're really a fan of his, you're effectively calling your man a pay driver.

no i am not!
i say that he is so good, that sponsors can be acquired because of his skills!

#2908 Birelman

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:06

no i am not!
i say that he is so good, that sponsors can be acquired because of his skills!

Oh!!! Now I see, finally!! That makes him different from any other driver, of course! :rolleyes:

#2909 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:08

I know. It's just amazed me why you are always against Alonso. Even today, when he had a great day, you are still sure that he was poor because Ferrari is faster. Ferrari is faster because of what? Because Alonso couldn't have a good day?


No, no, no. Alonso did fine today. I just hate his fanboys coming out immediately after good performance and trying to make it look like it was a miracle, qualifying so close to superior car with his shopping trolley, hmph. That is just too annoying for me not to write some responses.

I dont understand why it is so difficult just say: "Damn, Alonso was f¤king good today, shame Vettel was nearly perfect this time, well hopefully race will go our way"? Instead of inventing stupid excuses like "Redbull was fastest car today".

Edited by yr, 24 July 2010 - 17:10.


#2910 Hole

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:13

No, no, no. Alonso did fine today. I just hate his fanboys coming out immediately after good performance and trying to make it look like it was a miracle, qualifying so close to superior car with his shopping trolley, hmph. That is just too annoying for me not to write some responses.

I dont understand why it is so difficult just say: "Damn, Alonso was f¤king good today, shame Vettel was nearly perfect this time, well hopefully race will go our way"? Instead of inventing stupid excuses like "Redbull was fastest car today".


lol, now I understand why you came up with you stating Alonso has the fastest car. Just a childish flamebite to anger fanboys. But if you do that, you are like them too, didn't know?

#2911 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:15

lol, now I understand why you came up with you stating Alonso has the fastest car. Just a childish flamebite to anger fanboys. But if you do that, you are like them too, didn't know?


Not sure if I follow your locig here. :confused:

Ah well, I do, after reading it again. :wave: Well, you are wrong. Period. My point is not to stir up the pot, just to follow motor racing. Comparing the "weak" Massa against Webber (who won last race) and seeing them quite equal throughout the weekend before q3 makes me think there was nothing between Ferrari/Redbull or if there was it was in favour of Ferrari. Alonso did excellent job but Vettel did even better, it was just a saturday so chill out and get ready for real thing in Sunday... I for one cant wait.

Edited by yr, 24 July 2010 - 17:24.


#2912 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:16

Oh!!! Now I see, finally!! That makes him different from any other driver, of course! :rolleyes:

didnt say that.
i just say that your theory of dennis paying alonso and therefore didnt mistreat him is wrong.
because of alonso dennis and mclaren gained a lot of money!

#2913 Hole

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:18

Not sure if I follow your locig here. :confused:


Maybe my Engrish wasn't clear, sorry. I mean that you are doing what you are complaining about about Alonso fanboys.

#2914 as65p

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:21

Trulli was faster than Alonso when they were team mates, now Trulli is equal to Kovalainen - do you think Kovalainen is also therefore faster than Alonso, eh? You just cant compare drivers in different years, in different cars for different teammates and draw conclusions, it just wont work.


Especially not if those comparisons point into a direction we don't like at all, right? :p

#2915 JKTRacing

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:32

I see you updated your post to include an insult to me calling me stupid, which I don't deserve, as I have treated you with respect throughout our conversation.

What I find odd is, why would Ron Dennis pay Alonso millions just to put him on a second driver role to a rookie, however talented, or prepared, or loved, a rookie, is always an unknown quantity.



I didnt want to reply to my own post so I edited, I called you stupid because you dont seem like your average Alonso basher, you acknowledge that Hamilton was pushed into F1 by Ron Dennis since he was very little (he even sponsored the championship he was racing in, calling it McLarens Champions of the Future, and partially bought a Karting brand DC One even though the chassis where very similar to the Birel you like) yet you believe Ron was impartial when it came to Alonso vs Hamilton, if it was your son vs someone else, who would you support?

I dont know why Ron bought Alonso, but here are some wild guesses, all could be true, and we will never know the truth;

maybe he didnt think Hamilton was ready that year
maybe he thought, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer
maybe he needed the sponsorship from Santander
maybe Ron thought Hamilton would beat Alonso easily, specially when it was Ron who chose who got the best equipment (you must know from your karting experience that not 2 chassis are the same, or 2 engines are the same, now multiply this by 1million, you can make 2 identical cars very different in F1)



If you take Hamilton that rookie season, and Hamilton 10 years from now, you will find a much different Hamilton, one who is much more polished up, this can even be seen already.



So what you are saying is that the Shumi of 10 years ago, is worst than the Shumi we see today?

Edited by JKTRacing, 24 July 2010 - 17:33.


#2916 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:38

Trulli was faster than Alonso when they were team mates,

maybe you should update your knowledge about trulli and alonso at renault
trulli was faster than alonso :drunk:

#2917 Lights

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 17:39

So what you are saying is that the Shumi of 10 years ago, is worst than the Shumi we see today?

Was Schumi in his rookie season 10 years ago?

#2918 min12

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 18:03

I didnt want to reply to my own post so I edited, I called you stupid because you dont seem like your average Alonso basher, you acknowledge that Hamilton was pushed into F1 by Ron Dennis since he was very little (he even sponsored the championship he was racing in, calling it McLarens Champions of the Future, and partially bought a Karting brand DC One even though the chassis where very similar to the Birel you like) yet you believe Ron was impartial when it came to Alonso vs Hamilton, if it was your son vs someone else, who would you support?

I dont know why Ron bought Alonso, but here are some wild guesses, all could be true, and we will never know the truth;

maybe he didnt think Hamilton was ready that year
maybe he thought, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer
maybe he needed the sponsorship from Santander
maybe Ron thought Hamilton would beat Alonso easily, specially when it was Ron who chose who got the best equipment (you must know from your karting experience that not 2 chassis are the same, or 2 engines are the same, now multiply this by 1million, you can make 2 identical cars very different in F1)






So what you are saying is that the Shumi of 10 years ago, is worst than the Shumi we see today?

Are you saying Alonso somehow got inferior equipment while at McLaren?

#2919 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 18:24

Especially not if those comparisons point into a direction we don't like at all, right? :p


Especially not then. :lol:

Seriously, Alonso = Trulli , Trulli = Kovalainen , Kovalainen was way bellow Hamilton. Conclusion = Hamilton miles ahead of Alonso - which is evident already by looking Hamiltons rookie year against Alonso.

Yeah, teammate comparasions dont always go to direction we would like.

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#2920 Number62

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 18:29

didnt say that.
i just say that your theory of dennis paying alonso and therefore didnt mistreat him is wrong.
because of alonso dennis and mclaren gained a lot of money!


Have you netted off the £50m fine?

#2921 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 18:33

maybe you should update your knowledge about trulli and alonso at renault
trulli was faster than alonso :drunk:


Well, he was fired by Briatore because he made Alonso look bad, no? Trulli was only driver who won race in that years car, he was leading Alonso in WDC when he was kicked out by that crooked Flavio Briatore. It was disgrace, shame. Alonso didnt mind though, like he didnt mind when Piquet was ordered to crash in order to make Fernando win a race he had no business to be in podium if it was fair and straight race.


#2922 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 18:50

Well, he was fired by Briatore because he made Alonso look bad, no? Trulli was only driver who won race in that years car, he was leading Alonso in WDC when he was kicked out by that crooked Flavio Briatore.

over the two years trulli and alonso were together in renault, alonso owned trulli

in 2004 trulli had already a contract with toyota and both renault and trulli wanted to break the relationship

if 2004 is a graduator for anything it is for the figthing spirit of alonso.
Although Alonso had a lot of problems in that year (5 dnf vs. 3 dnf of trulli) he was just 1 point behind trulli before trulli left. In the middle of the season he was 16 points behind and managed to fight back.
that is one of the things why people call him the best at the moment.
even in seasons when not everything works perfect, he is capable of fighting back!
thats why a lot of experts still count him as a championship contender, because when everything seems to be against him, he is nearly unbeatable!
sometimes it even seems he need that pressure to outgrowth himself
a real fighter, a true champion :up:

Edited by YellowHelmet, 24 July 2010 - 18:52.


#2923 Watkins74

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 18:51

Well, he was fired by Briatore because he made Alonso look bad, no? Trulli was only driver who won race in that years car, he was leading Alonso in WDC when he was kicked out by that crooked Flavio Briatore. It was disgrace, shame. Alonso didnt mind though, like he didnt mind when Piquet was ordered to crash in order to make Fernando win a race he had no business to be in podium if it was fair and straight race.

No, for falling asleep and letting Rubens pass him on the last corner and the putting in lackluster race performances. I have always enjoyed Trulli but his racing is sub-par.

#2924 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 19:05

over the two years trulli and alonso were together in renault, alonso owned trulli

in 2004 trulli had already a contract with toyota and both renault and trulli wanted to break the relationship

if 2004 is a graduator for anything it is for the figthing spirit of alonso.
Although Alonso had a lot of problems in that year (5 dnf vs. 3 dnf of trulli) he was just 1 point behind trulli before trulli left. In the middle of the season he was 16 points behind and managed to fight back.
that is one of the things why people call him the best at the moment.
even in seasons when not everything works perfect, he is capable of fighting back!
thats why a lot of experts still count him as a championship contender, because when everything seems to be against him, he is nearly unbeatable!
sometimes it even seems he need that pressure to outgrowth himself
a real fighter, a true champion :up:


I think quite the opposite: whenever there is pressure (especially from teammate) Alonso wont deliver, we saw that when Trulli got better of him, we saw that when he was at Mclaren. He needs to have a dominant car and #1 status at his team, everybody focusing solely on him, like he had in 2005 and 2006. If going gets tough, he will start to make mistakes and accuse everybody from cleaning-lady to CEO being against him and wanting him to fail. We have seen that.

#2925 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 19:08

I think quite the opposite: whenever there is pressure (especially from teammate) Alonso wont deliver, we saw that when Trulli got better of him, we saw that when he was at Mclaren.

you have to open your eyes:
in the middle of the season 2004 alonso was 16 points behind --> big pressure --> still managed to fight back
in the middle of the season 2007 alonso was 14 points behind --> big pressure --> still managed to fight back (in the next 9 races ham was just 2 times in front of alonso!)

Edited by YellowHelmet, 24 July 2010 - 19:12.


#2926 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 19:25

No, for falling asleep and letting Rubens pass him on the last corner and the putting in lackluster race performances. I have always enjoyed Trulli but his racing is sub-par.


I have watched this sport for almost 3 decades, but I have never seen a driver (except Trulli) being kikced out of team in the middle of season when he has done better job than his teammate, just because of one mistake in one race, that is totally absurd. Everybody - and I mean EVERYBODY - could see it was nothing more or less than Briatore wanting to keep his goldenboy out of misery and humility about getting beaten by team mate, he needed to sack Trulli before season was completed as he didnt want to have statistics in history books where mediocre driver like Trulli ends up higher in standings than Alonso with same car.

Would you think it as a clever move from Mercedes, if tomorrow Rosberg would be say, 3rd, in last lap but someone would pass him and he ended up 4th and he would then be fired because of it? Thats what happend to Trulli, he was ahead of teammate in points, used to outqualify him, then suddenly - BANG - he was out of job because he lost a one position in one corner in one race... it wasn´t even that important because it was not a battle of WDC anyway, just one f¤#king mistake - not a biggie. Would you really like to see for example Rosberg kicked out if he would lose one position tomorrow in last lap? Seriously? Is there no limits how fan one can be?

#2927 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 19:27

I have watched this sport for almost 3 decades, but I have never seen a driver (except Trulli) being kikced out of team in the middle of season when he has done better job than his teammate, just because of one mistake in one race, that is totally absurd.

that would be absurd, but at the end, he couldnt deliever any more, in the last 5 races he couldnt manage to make points!
some would say he was begging for the release (because he already had a contract with toyota!)

#2928 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 19:31

you have to open your eyes:
in the middle of the season 2004 alonso was 16 points behind --> big pressure --> still managed to fight back
in the middle of the season 2007 alonso was 14 points behind --> big pressure --> still managed to fight back (in the next 9 races ham was just 2 times in front of alonso!)


But he didnt win WDC in those years, that is what I am talking about. He doesnt seem to have it in him, to win titles if he doesnt have great gap in points early on. He might prove me wrong anytime, maybe even in this year, but untill I see him winning a championship he didnt have an early advantage with huge point gap, I´ll keep being sceptical.

Edited by yr, 24 July 2010 - 19:42.


#2929 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 19:36

that would be absurd, but at the end, he couldnt deliever any more, in the last 5 races he couldnt manage to make points!
some would say he was begging for the release (because he already had a contract with toyota!)


Still, he was doing much better against Alonso (even beating him in 2004) than any driver Briatore brought to Alonsos #2 after that. From Alonsos and his managers (Flavio) point of view that was defenately good move to kick Trulli out, but it wasnt so good for team (who pays Briatores salary) or for sport fans who wish to see equalish (as Trulli and Alonso were) battle.

I hate conspiracy theories and tin-foiled hats, but one cant help to suspect that Flavio "drove-to-wall-Piquet-when-I-ask" Briatore could have wanted to protect his golden investment (Alonso) by making Trullis life really difficult inside team and even making sure his car or tactics or whatever are not good enough for him to ever challenge FA again in same car - I mean how dared he do so in first place?

Edited by yr, 24 July 2010 - 19:42.


#2930 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 19:43

But he didnt win WDC in those years, that is what I am talking about.

i hope you are not asking alonso to win the 2004 championship :drunk:
in 2007 mclaren screwed him, it was not about him



He doesnt seem to have it in him, to win titles if doesnt have great gap in points early on.

what is that for a conclusion :drunk:
he had 3 times the opportunity to fight for the WDC (regarding the material he had)
2 times he won, because he delivered, and further back you said he is not capable of delivering, then you said if he has a strong teammate he cant deliever, this is not true too, and now you say he cant win a championship if he has not a big advantage! but to have a big advantage you have to deliver!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 24 July 2010 - 19:50.


#2931 AlainProstX

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 19:44

yr, we all know that Briatore kicked out Trulli because he was too fast for his Nr1 driver policy.

But you only mention 2004. Why not bringing up 2003? In 2003 Alonso beat Trulli by 55 to 33(!!!).

Trulli and Alonso were almost tied with points by the time Briatore fired him (46 to 45 IIRC).

If you look at the last races before this happened, you`ll maybe recognize that Alonso was trashing him. He brought his car very often to the podium. The reason why there was such a big gab between Alonso and Trulli was the Monaco GP. Alonso made a mistake, Trulli won the race. In the end, Alonso still fought back and almost equaled Trulli in points. Trulli isn`t some medicore driver like Sutil, Buemi or Kovalainen - Trulli is comparable to Barrichello. Very fast, but inconsistent.

Afterall, Alonso outscored him in the two years they drove alongside as teammates. You can`t blame Briatore for supporting Alonso that much - in the end he delivered 2 WDC and 2 WCC with Fisico. I doubt that Trulli would have managed to beat Michael Schumacher in 2006.

#2932 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 19:49

Still, he was doing much better against Alonso (even beating him in 2004) than any driver Briatore brought to Alonsos #2 after that. From Alonsos and his managers (Flavio) point of view that was defenately good move to kick Trulli out, but it wasnt so good for team (who pays Briatores salary) or for sport fans who wish to see equalish (as Trulli and Alonso were) battle.

i think that was a bad move, because alonso was catching him and would have overtaken trulli at the end, hadnt trulli left renault before.
so, that move some kind of harmed alonso than was in favour of him.
it surely was not good from alonsos point of view, because nowaday people say he was beaten by trulli (people who dont count the 5 dnf of alonso vs. 3 dnf of trulli!)



I hate conspiracy theories and tin-foiled hats, but one cant help to suspect that Flavio "drove-to-wall-Piquet-when-I-ask" Briatore could have wanted to protect his golden investment (Alonso) by making Trullis life really difficult inside team and even making sure his car or tactics or whatever are not good enough for him to ever challenge FA again in same car - I mean how dared he do so in first place?

1. trulli had great tactics, just look at his pole in spa and some other occasions
2. trulli had a great opportunity, which he thought will be the best for him with toyota, there were rumours about trulli and toyota already in may or june i think!

#2933 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:06

yr, we all know that Briatore kicked out Trulli because he was too fast for his Nr1 driver policy.

But you only mention 2004. Why not bringing up 2003? In 2003 Alonso beat Trulli by 55 to 33(!!!).

Trulli and Alonso were almost tied with points by the time Briatore fired him (46 to 45 IIRC).

If you look at the last races before this happened, you`ll maybe recognize that Alonso was trashing him. He brought his car very often to the podium. The reason why there was such a big gab between Alonso and Trulli was the Monaco GP. Alonso made a mistake, Trulli won the race. In the end, Alonso still fought back and almost equaled Trulli in points. Trulli isn`t some medicore driver like Sutil, Buemi or Kovalainen - Trulli is comparable to Barrichello. Very fast, but inconsistent.

Afterall, Alonso outscored him in the two years they drove alongside as teammates. You can`t blame Briatore for supporting Alonso that much - in the end he delivered 2 WDC and 2 WCC with Fisico. I doubt that Trulli would have managed to beat Michael Schumacher in 2006.


Well, I do believe Alonso is better than Trulli, thats not the issue here, 2003 Alonso was better and 2004 they were about equal with Trulli being slightely ahead at time he was kicked out. My only issue here is that I hate the way Flavio did his job as team principal in Renault team, he wasnt thinking the best of team were he got his salary, he was thinking about bigger money that he could have by making his driver a new super-star driver in F1... that is pathetic. Alonso is good but its an insult to him that Flavio needs to remove a driver from team because he is afraid that after the season is done Alonso might be behind in points, God I hate that arrogant, cheating clown. :mad:

#2934 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:12

i hope you are not asking alonso to win the 2004 championship :drunk:
in 2007 mclaren screwed him, it was not about him




what is that for a conclusion :drunk:
he had 3 times the opportunity to fight for the WDC (regarding the material he had)
2 times he won, because he delivered, and further back you said he is not capable of delivering, then you said if he has a strong teammate he cant deliever, this is not true too, and now you say he cant win a championship if he has not a big advantage! but to have a big advantage you have to deliver!


In 2007 Mclaren didnt screw him. He did screw the team that year though. Anyway, Hamilton is mighty these days, easily best driver so I doubt anybody of current crop could beat him in same car no matter what team it would be.

#2935 AlainProstX

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:13

Why are you complaining then? He kicked out Trulli who wanted to drive for Toyota in 2005, a competitor of Renault in the markets. Just imagine Trulli outscoring Renaults rising superstar Alonso in 2004 and then moving to Toyota. Thats not good for the image of the label.
In the end he got rid of Trulli (Yes, its sad, but we can`t change it) who was outscored by Alonso in all the races the raced alongside eachother and kept Alonso, who brought the team alot success in the future.

#2936 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:13

My only issue here is that I hate the way Flavio did his job as team principal in Renault team, he wasnt thinking the best of team were he got his salary, he was thinking about bigger money that he could have by making his driver a new super-star driver in F1... that is pathetic.

are you talking about dennis and hamilton :confused:




Alonso is good but its an insult to him that Flavio needs to remove a driver from team because he is afraid that after the season is done Alonso might be behind in points, God I hate that arrogant, cheating clown. :mad:

:stoned:
that was not the reason trulli was out of renault, it was toyota!
and your statement is not logical.
if flavio was afraid of trulli being ahead of alonso, than he would have waited till the end and not kicking (as you expressed) trulli, when he is leading :drunk:

#2937 Watkins74

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:14

I have watched this sport for almost 3 decades, but I have never seen a driver (except Trulli) being kikced out of team in the middle of season when he has done better job than his teammate, just because of one mistake in one race, that is totally absurd. Everybody - and I mean EVERYBODY - could see it was nothing more or less than Briatore wanting to keep his goldenboy out of misery and humility about getting beaten by team mate, he needed to sack Trulli before season was completed as he didnt want to have statistics in history books where mediocre driver like Trulli ends up higher in standings than Alonso with same car.

Would you think it as a clever move from Mercedes, if tomorrow Rosberg would be say, 3rd, in last lap but someone would pass him and he ended up 4th and he would then be fired because of it? Thats what happend to Trulli, he was ahead of teammate in points, used to outqualify him, then suddenly - BANG - he was out of job because he lost a one position in one corner in one race... it wasn´t even that important because it was not a battle of WDC anyway, just one f¤#king mistake - not a biggie. Would you really like to see for example Rosberg kicked out if he would lose one position tomorrow in last lap? Seriously? Is there no limits how fan one can be?

See post #2938. That will explain it to you. You totally ignored half my post about race performance.

Still, I like Trulli, so I am not going to rag on the guy. I think he has shown to be a good qualifier but lacks race pace. You can have the last word.



#2938 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:15

In 2007 Mclaren didnt screw him. He did screw the team that year though.

?
they screwed him after monaco, they screwed him by giving him illegal material to analyze, they screwed him in hungary, they screwed him by officialy saying to hamilton we are racing alonso!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 24 July 2010 - 20:16.


#2939 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:26

?
they screwed him after monaco, they screwed him by giving him illegal material to analyze, they screwed him in hungary, they screwed him by officialy saying to hamilton we are racing alonso!


Good one. :lol:


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#2940 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:29

are you talking about dennis and hamilton :confused:



This is a place to discuss about F1, not a place for trying to act as stand-up comedian.

#2941 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:36

See post #2938. That will explain it to you.


That explains nothing for me, as I already said I don´t like tin-foiled conspiracy theories but in this case I will make the exception. Flavio has shown he doesnt refuse to use any dirty tactics for getting what he wants, he even put his #2 driver to crash hard in order to get Alonso in top step on podium... that says it all, really. You think that Trulli suddenly got so much worse in 2004? Come on, he was on a roll, untill Flavio decided he needed to do something befor Alonsos marketing value would go down.

Edited by yr, 24 July 2010 - 20:38.


#2942 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:40

that was not the reason trulli was out of renault, it was toyota!


Drivers change teams all the time, that is not a reason for put them aside in the midlle of season.


#2943 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:51

Drivers change teams all the time, that is not a reason for put them aside in the midlle of season.

if they want it, why not!
it is not usual, but sometimes it can happen, especially if the driver wants it too!

#2944 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:52

Come on, he was on a roll, untill Flavio decided he needed to do something befor Alonsos marketing value would go down.

your post is not logical
if it was about that, he would have waited till alonso is ahead, and not when alonso is behind :drunk:

#2945 yr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:56

if they want it, why not!
it is not usual, but sometimes it can happen, especially if the driver wants it too!


Well we just have to agree to disagree on this. Anyway I´m off to get some sleep now, lets hope for some actionful and great racing tomorrow. :wave:

#2946 YellowHelmet

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 20:58

Well we just have to agree to disagree on this. Anyway I´m off to get some sleep now, lets hope for some actionful and great racing tomorrow. :wave:

i hope for that too.
good night :wave:

#2947 WheelBanger304

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 21:35

I have watched this sport for almost 3 decades, but I have never seen a driver (except Trulli) being kikced out of team in the middle of season when he has done better job than his teammate, just because of one mistake in one race, that is totally absurd. Everybody - and I mean EVERYBODY - could see it was nothing more or less than Briatore wanting to keep his goldenboy out of misery and humility about getting beaten by team mate, he needed to sack Trulli before season was completed as he didnt want to have statistics in history books where mediocre driver like Trulli ends up higher in standings than Alonso with same car.

Would you think it as a clever move from Mercedes, if tomorrow Rosberg would be say, 3rd, in last lap but someone would pass him and he ended up 4th and he would then be fired because of it? Thats what happend to Trulli, he was ahead of teammate in points, used to outqualify him, then suddenly - BANG - he was out of job because he lost a one position in one corner in one race... it wasn´t even that important because it was not a battle of WDC anyway, just one f¤#king mistake - not a biggie. Would you really like to see for example Rosberg kicked out if he would lose one position tomorrow in last lap? Seriously? Is there no limits how fan one can be?

:up:

You guys can stick your fingers in your ears and keep repeating "na nana na na, Fernando is the greatest" as long as you want; I couldn't care less. But when you try to convince those of us that genuinely love this sport - as opposed to idolizing a driver just because he happens to hail from the same country as us - that Briatore's treatment of Trulli in 2004 was normal or acceptable, that is when I feel obliged to protest.

Such a bizarre course of action was unprecedented, and can only be explained in the context of an understanding of how the sport started to change after Mosley and Ecclestone decided to overhaul Balestre's corrupt regime by making it ten times more corrupt and a hundred times more lucrative. This quickly began to attract the wrong types, of whom Briatore - whom most would have quickly dismissed as a lovable spiv were it not for the fact that he was unhappily a convicted fraudster and fugitive from justice with known links to the Mafia - was just the most sinister.

This creature has always had the archetypal parasitic Mafia mentality: "where's my cut"? Whether it's earned or unearned, Flavio wants a cut of the action. Call it 'protection money' - call it what you like - Flavio doesn't care. He's richer than you are and even though he looks like a beached whale he still screws supermodels. When Trulli, by considerably improving his performance from the previous year, began to pose a threat to his latest meal ticket, there was only one thing Alonso's older and less marketable teammate - a fellow countryman of Flavio's but what does that matter when money's at stake? - could do to make it right: sign the management contract which Flavio liked to insist upon all his driver's signing, despite the obvious conflict of interest with his role as team boss. It was the least Jarno could do to offset the negative effect his beating Alonso was having on the value of the Spanish TV rights he owned and whose value to the likes of Telecinco were dependent on mass public interest in Alonso as a future superstar - the type of driver who doesn't get beaten by a a journeyman like Trulli.

When Jarno refused, he had to go - in fact he can count himself lucky he wasn't involved in a serious on-track "accident" - and the "yutaw taw, he's not a f*cking driver" playacting over that meaningless incident that Briatore presented to the world as the ostensible reason for Trulli's sacking could commence. Flavio loves playacting, but - like so many brilliant actors - it's not at all clear that he knows he's acting. He was so genuinely pissed off at what he saw as Trulli's unreasonableness in refusing to sign the management deal, that projecting that anger onto that incident with Barrichello seemed entirely natural - and almost genuine.

Yet the very same people who defend this treatment find ways to attack Ron Dennis as a bad sportsman. Someone who deliberately hampered Alonso. Quite simply, you people haven't a clue. If Dennis shared your ethics, Alonso would have been out on his ear immediately after he tried to blackmail McLaren to get his precious no. 1 status. Instead, he continued to give Alonso the equipment to win the title right up to Brazil. And to this day I am happy he did despite the fact it cost McLaren the title.

Believe - or pretend to believe - what you like. My own firm conviction since 2007 has been that Alonso will not win another championship. His character flaws stood out so starkly then that it became clear that he is only capable of winning the title under such conditions as obtained at Renault in 2005 and 2006. Any hint of a strong teammate who is free to race against him, or capable drivers in comparable equipment that are not having to play catch up but are right there with him all the way, and he is revealed for what he is: fast, but paranoid ("manipulated race" after Valencia) and mentally weak ("the only thing you should do throughout the race is to talk to Charlie about Hamilton" and similar comments in Valencia rather than concentrating on getting the best out of his own race).

Hamilton in the Ferrari Alonso is driving would probably have more points than he currently has as a McLaren driver; yet Alonso's deluded fans are climaxing on the back of second on the grid in what looks like the best car at this track - and hailing as the best driver on the grid their idol who has been making schoolboy error after schoolboy error this season, with the result that he's nearly fifty points shy of the championship lead held by a guy driving a car that's been no better than his. Oh well. Let's hope Santander soon finds another horse to back. The one they're currently backing looks lame.

Edited by Buttoneer, 24 July 2010 - 22:50.
removed references to Alonso fanbase - no flaming please


#2948 Heasven

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 21:37

Well, he was fired by Briatore because he made Alonso look bad, no? Trulli was only driver who won race in that years car, he was leading Alonso in WDC when he was kicked out by that crooked Flavio Briatore. It was disgrace, shame. Alonso didnt mind though, like he didnt mind when Piquet was ordered to crash in order to make Fernando win a race he had no business to be in podium if it was fair and straight race.


It's hard to take your argument seriously when you make laughable comments like that.

Is it that easy to forget that was the same Jarno Trulli that in 2003 was completely run over by Fernando who was on his 1st full time season with the team?. Is it so easy to forget that in 2003 Fernando was the guy who gave Renault their first pole ( 2nd race with the team by the way) and race win since they came back to the sport?. Is it so easy to forget that all during the 2004 season Fernando had problems getting the best out of the car in qualifications like he had been mentioning during that year ( to be honest I think he was flat out underperforming )?

Is it so easy to forget that the reason Jarno was sacked was because he did not agreed with Flavio's offer to renew his contract (instead decided to get more money from Toyo) and the silly pass for second place Barrichello put on him in the last corner in Magny-Cours, which happened to be Renault's Home Grand Prix was the tip of the iceberg that destroyed that relationship?

But since this is 2010 and you just happen to dislike Fernando, go ahead and continue discrediting him since it looks like it hurst you very much to see Fernando Alonso doing well.




#2949 aditya-now

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 22:11

Fernando Alonso Q&A: It's not too late to fight for the title


I love this, and Fernando´s never say die attitude. If he can fight back now and still win the WDC it will be great, he has long been due for a lucky turn of events, thinking about the unjustness of 2007 and the consequent 2008 and 2009. Three stolen years, all in all.

Funnily enough Fernando was already very emotional in Valencia and Silverstone, but somewhere last week he found his composure and peace again and look - the results are getting there.

Here is to a Ferrari 1 - 2 this Sunday :up:


#2950 aditya-now

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 22:16



I have yr on "ignore", and then you guys keep quoting him. Such statements seriously shouldn´t been given a stage in the Alonso thread by quoting and requoting yr.

What is there to discuss?

Alonso gets 4-times more votes than the next best active driver from his own colleagues, that should tell us something.
So nothing to defend, nothing to argue, let Fernando get on with the job and - who knows, he might even start another era Ferrari.

Of course, then people will be complaining about him as he will make the sport as boring as Schumi did.
:smoking: