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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#2951 Flamini

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 22:20

You guys can stick your fingers in your ears and keep repeating "na nana na na, Fernando is the greatest" as long as you want; I couldn't care less. But when you try to convince those of us that genuinely love this sport - as opposed to idolizing a driver just because he happens to hail from the same country as us...


:confused:

I think you have no idea how many fans Alonso has. I'm not from Spain, I've never been in Spain, I have no friends in Spain. Look at official FOTA survey: Alonso is second popular driver after Schumacher, he is more popular than Hamilton. The problem is that a lot of people (especially Hamilton fans from UK but i don't want to generalise) think that Alonso is 'loved' in the world in the same way as he is 'loved' in UK. This is a myth and this FOTA survey showed this very clearly. Alonso has fans everywhere in Continental Europe, not only in Spain.

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#2952 cardin

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 22:24

I didnt want to reply to my own post so I edited, I called you stupid because you dont seem like your average Alonso basher, you acknowledge that Hamilton was pushed into F1 by Ron Dennis since he was very little (he even sponsored the championship he was racing in, calling it McLarens Champions of the Future, and partially bought a Karting brand DC One even though the chassis where very similar to the Birel you like) yet you believe Ron was impartial when it came to Alonso vs Hamilton, if it was your son vs someone else, who would you support?

I dont know why Ron bought Alonso, but here are some wild guesses, all could be true, and we will never know the truth;

maybe he didnt think Hamilton was ready that year
maybe he thought, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer
maybe he needed the sponsorship from Santander
maybe Ron thought Hamilton would beat Alonso easily, specially when it was Ron who chose who got the best equipment (you must know from your karting experience that not 2 chassis are the same, or 2 engines are the same, now multiply this by 1million, you can make 2 identical cars very different in F1)






So what you are saying is that the Shumi of 10 years ago, is worst than the Shumi we see today?


After reading this It's safe to say; You have no business calling anybody stupid

#2953 cardin

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 22:36

I have watched this sport for almost 3 decades, but I have never seen a driver (except Trulli) being kikced out of team in the middle of season when he has done better job than his teammate, just because of one mistake in one race, that is totally absurd. Everybody - and I mean EVERYBODY - could see it was nothing more or less than Briatore wanting to keep his goldenboy out of misery and humility about getting beaten by team mate, he needed to sack Trulli before season was completed as he didnt want to have statistics in history books where mediocre driver like Trulli ends up higher in standings than Alonso with same car.

Would you think it as a clever move from Mercedes, if tomorrow Rosberg would be say, 3rd, in last lap but someone would pass him and he ended up 4th and he would then be fired because of it? Thats what happend to Trulli, he was ahead of teammate in points, used to outqualify him, then suddenly - BANG - he was out of job because he lost a one position in one corner in one race... it wasn´t even that important because it was not a battle of WDC anyway, just one f¤#king mistake - not a biggie. Would you really like to see for example Rosberg kicked out if he would lose one position tomorrow in last lap? Seriously? Is there no limits how fan one can be?


Great post. The firing of Trulli was one of the strangest things I've ever seen in F1. If I needed more proof that F1 was more a business than a sport that would certainly do it.

#2954 cardin

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 22:45

It's hard to take your argument seriously when you make laughable comments like that.

Is it that easy to forget that was the same Jarno Trulli that in 2003 was completely run over by Fernando who was on his 1st full time season with the team?. Is it so easy to forget that in 2003 Fernando was the guy who gave Renault their first pole ( 2nd race with the team by the way) and race win since they came back to the sport?. [b]Is it so easy to forget that all during the 2004 season Fernando had problems getting the best out of the car in qualifications like he had been mentioning during that year ( to be honest I think he was flat out underperforming )?
Is it so easy to forget that the reason Jarno was sacked was because he did not agreed with Flavio's offer to renew his contract (instead decided to get more money from Toyo) and the silly pass for second place Barrichello put on him in the last corner in Magny-Cours, which happened to be Renault's Home Grand Prix was the tip of the iceberg that destroyed that relationship?

But since this is 2010 and you just happen to dislike Fernando, go ahead and continue discrediting him since it looks like it hurst you very much to see Fernando Alonso doing well.

No, nobody is forgetting Alonso underperformed(your words) actually that's the whole point. Alonso was underperforming, Trulli was getting the better of him and got fired.


#2955 as65p

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 22:50

You guys can stick your fingers in your ears and keep repeating "na nana na na, Fernando is the greatest" as long as you want; I couldn't care less.


So if you couldn't care less the result is a thousand words. What happens if you care? :p

Believe - or pretend to believe - what you like. My own firm conviction since 2007 has been that Alonso will not win another championship. His character flaws stood out so starkly then that it became clear that he is only capable of winning the title under such conditions as obtained at Renault in 2005 and 2006. Any hint of a strong teammate who is free to race against him, or capable drivers in comparable equipment that are not having to play catch up but are right there with him all the way, and he is revealed for what he is: fast, but paranoid ("manipulated race" after Valencia) and mentally weak ("the only thing you should do throughout the race is to talk to Charlie about Hamilton" and similar comments in Valencia rather than concentrating on getting the best out of his own race).

Hamilton in the Ferrari Alonso is driving would probably have more points than he currently has as a McLaren driver; yet Alonso's deluded fans are climaxing on the back of second on the grid in what looks like the best car at this track - and hailing as the best driver on the grid their idol who has been making schoolboy error after schoolboy error this season, with the result that he's nearly fifty points shy of the championship lead held by a guy driving a car that's been no better than his. Oh well. Let's hope Santander soon finds another horse to back. The one they're currently backing looks lame.


Okay, it's understood how pissed you are about Alonso doing considerably better today than Hamilton. Calm down, it was just one qualifying, the race is tomorrow.

#2956 AlanWake

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 22:56

God save Alonso, if he wins tomorrow.

#2957 WheelBanger304

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 22:57

So if you couldn't care less the result is a thousand words. What happens if you care? :p



Okay, it's understood how pissed you are about Alonso doing considerably better today than Hamilton. Calm down, it was just one qualifying, the race is tomorrow.

:lol:

Alonso's not much of a threat at all, these days. He'll no doubt f*ck up his own race, and then blame it all on an English conspiracy.....

#2958 mkay

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 22:58

God save Alonso, if he wins tomorrow.


I'll surely be rooting for him tomorrow :)

#2959 AlanWake

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 23:02

:lol:

Alonso's not much of a threat at all, these days. He'll no doubt f*ck up his own race, and then blame it all on an English conspiracy.....


Why Hamilton, "the best driver on the grid" was beaten by "the inferior and slow" Button today?


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#2960 Hole

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 23:06

And once again people assuming that all Alonso fans are from Spain... to rest us credibility and imply we don't love F1 really.

Really guys, why don't you just attack the post and not the poster?

#2961 WheelBanger304

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 23:29

Why Hamilton, "the best driver on the grid" was beaten by "the inferior and slow" Button today?

I don't know, Alan, I really don't know. But given that you were the one admitting just the other day that Hamilton is indeed the best driver on the grid, and that you certainly won't be able to find a post in which I have described his teammate, the current world champion whom he had outqualified mostly by pretty big margins in the preceding six races as "inferior and slow", I can only wonder why you have put those words in quotation marks. I suspect you are using what is called in English a straw man. My Spanish is not idiomatic enough to think of the equivalent - can you help me out?

#2962 Birelman

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 04:26

I didnt want to reply to my own post so I edited, I called you stupid because you dont seem like your average Alonso basher, you acknowledge that Hamilton was pushed into F1 by Ron Dennis since he was very little (he even sponsored the championship he was racing in, calling it McLarens Champions of the Future, and partially bought a Karting brand DC One even though the chassis where very similar to the Birel you like) yet you believe Ron was impartial when it came to Alonso vs Hamilton, if it was your son vs someone else, who would you support?

I dont know why Ron bought Alonso, but here are some wild guesses, all could be true, and we will never know the truth;

maybe he didnt think Hamilton was ready that year
maybe he thought, keep your friends close, but your enemies closer
maybe he needed the sponsorship from Santander
maybe Ron thought Hamilton would beat Alonso easily, specially when it was Ron who chose who got the best equipment (you must know from your karting experience that not 2 chassis are the same, or 2 engines are the same, now multiply this by 1million, you can make 2 identical cars very different in F1)






So what you are saying is that the Shumi of 10 years ago, is worst than the Shumi we see today?

No, I'm not an Alonso basher, really, I'm not a fan, but, whatever. Still doesn't make me deserving of being called stupid, but, ok.

Hamilton isn't Dennis's son, and really, up until Lewis reached lower level Formulae, it really wasn't costing Ron so much, maybe 200, or 300k per year max, I know the costs of Karting internationally, and that's pretty much it, and it's not really a hell of a lot for Mr. Dennis. It wasn't really a big investment from Ron until a few years before reaching F1. The thing is, Dennis was right, he had scouted a VERY talented young man.

As far as why Dennis hired Alonso, simple, Alonso was the best driver in the world, why wouldn't he? Dennis has always strived to have the best 2 drivers driving for him. He was going after young Schumacher while he had Hakkinen. So, he always wants the best 2 possible. If I'm not mistaken, he had bagged Alonso even before he knew he had lost Raikkonen.

It doesn't make much sense for a businessman such as Dennis (however an SOB, like him of not, he's just a businessman) to hire Alonso just to have him in there slaved as clear #2 to a rookie, that just doesn't make any sense. What does make sense is that, once Alonso blew out at the boss, the relationship collapsed, and it would make a lot of sense to say that they backed Lewis over Alonso AFTER that time. But until that time, no, I don't think there was any clear indication that Lewis was being favored, actually, the oposite, given that the team fumbled Lewis's pitstop in Melbourne allowing for Alonso to pick up the position (not saying it was on purpose, but conspiracy theorists can have a go at that, just as you have a go at the other side of the story) also there was the Monaco issue, when Lewis was left whining that Alonso was getting preferential treatment. So, you see, it's not as clear cut as you seem to try to paint it.

LOL and nice try about Schumacher! C'mon, really!!

Anyway, I think we've drifted way off the point here, my point was only that Hamilton faired well in relationship with a WDC teammate, nobody can deny that.

Take care, and don't call nice people stupid :stoned:

#2963 shadow1

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 08:11

:up:

You guys can stick your fingers in your ears and keep repeating "na nana na na, Fernando is the greatest" as long as you want; I couldn't care less. But when you try to convince those of us that genuinely love this sport - as opposed to idolizing a driver just because he happens to hail from the same country as us - that Briatore's treatment of Trulli in 2004 was normal or acceptable, that is when I feel obliged to protest.

Such a bizarre course of action was unprecedented, and can only be explained in the context of an understanding of how the sport started to change after Mosley and Ecclestone decided to overhaul Balestre's corrupt regime by making it ten times more corrupt and a hundred times more lucrative. This quickly began to attract the wrong types, of whom Briatore - whom most would have quickly dismissed as a lovable spiv were it not for the fact that he was unhappily a convicted fraudster and fugitive from justice with known links to the Mafia - was just the most sinister.

This creature has always had the archetypal parasitic Mafia mentality: "where's my cut"? Whether it's earned or unearned, Flavio wants a cut of the action. Call it 'protection money' - call it what you like - Flavio doesn't care. He's richer than you are and even though he looks like a beached whale he still screws supermodels. When Trulli, by considerably improving his performance from the previous year, began to pose a threat to his latest meal ticket, there was only one thing Alonso's older and less marketable teammate - a fellow countryman of Flavio's but what does that matter when money's at stake? - could do to make it right: sign the management contract which Flavio liked to insist upon all his driver's signing, despite the obvious conflict of interest with his role as team boss. It was the least Jarno could do to offset the negative effect his beating Alonso was having on the value of the Spanish TV rights he owned and whose value to the likes of Telecinco were dependent on mass public interest in Alonso as a future superstar - the type of driver who doesn't get beaten by a a journeyman like Trulli.

When Jarno refused, he had to go - in fact he can count himself lucky he wasn't involved in a serious on-track "accident" - and the "yutaw taw, he's not a f*cking driver" playacting over that meaningless incident that Briatore presented to the world as the ostensible reason for Trulli's sacking could commence. Flavio loves playacting, but - like so many brilliant actors - it's not at all clear that he knows he's acting. He was so genuinely pissed off at what he saw as Trulli's unreasonableness in refusing to sign the management deal, that projecting that anger onto that incident with Barrichello seemed entirely natural - and almost genuine.

Yet the very same people who defend this treatment find ways to attack Ron Dennis as a bad sportsman. Someone who deliberately hampered Alonso. Quite simply, you people haven't a clue. If Dennis shared your ethics, Alonso would have been out on his ear immediately after he tried to blackmail McLaren to get his precious no. 1 status. Instead, he continued to give Alonso the equipment to win the title right up to Brazil. And to this day I am happy he did despite the fact it cost McLaren the title.

Believe - or pretend to believe - what you like. My own firm conviction since 2007 has been that Alonso will not win another championship. His character flaws stood out so starkly then that it became clear that he is only capable of winning the title under such conditions as obtained at Renault in 2005 and 2006. Any hint of a strong teammate who is free to race against him, or capable drivers in comparable equipment that are not having to play catch up but are right there with him all the way, and he is revealed for what he is: fast, but paranoid ("manipulated race" after Valencia) and mentally weak ("the only thing you should do throughout the race is to talk to Charlie about Hamilton" and similar comments in Valencia rather than concentrating on getting the best out of his own race).

Hamilton in the Ferrari Alonso is driving would probably have more points than he currently has as a McLaren driver; yet Alonso's deluded fans are climaxing on the back of second on the grid in what looks like the best car at this track - and hailing as the best driver on the grid their idol who has been making schoolboy error after schoolboy error this season, with the result that he's nearly fifty points shy of the championship lead held by a guy driving a car that's been no better than his. Oh well. Let's hope Santander soon finds another horse to back. The one they're currently backing looks lame.



I am trying to comprehend the level of bitterness and hatred required to motivate such a load of venom against a driver, but I can't. You are obviously a little upset at Alonso's speed this weekend and Hamilton's lack of it, and more importantly what it says for the rest of the season, with the Mclaren clearly off the pace even with their new exhaust system.

Just to quickly respond to the silly accusations of Trulli being sacked because he was beating Alonso. Well at the time he was sacked he was being regularly out scored and outpaced by Alonso for the previous 7 races, so whatever threat he posed earlier on when Alonso was suffering from bad luck had vanished long before Flavio got rid of him. And why did he get rid of him? Publically accusing the team of sabotage because he could not accept being slower than Alonso was one reason. The other was a contract and managment dispute with Flavio which had absolutely nothing to do with Fernando. As for the rest of your post, its quite tragic. I would not be talking up Hamilton too much considering he has been out paced by his plodding team mate 4 times now in qualifying, twice as many times as Alonso has by his qualifying specialist team mate. If Hamilton was at Ferrari he would be spending a lot of time staring at Massa's gearbox.

#2964 shadow1

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 08:22

Well, maybe the crash still had its impact, who knows. What I do know though, is that Massa was one of fastest qualifiers there is. He did quite fine in 2006 against Schumi in second half of season, his grid-positions in last 9 races were: 2-2-3-2-1-4-20-1-1. That was better than Schumachers (who was clear #1 at time) including 3 poles! Now he is 0.4 sec behind Alonso and you think thats their real difference? Driver who could match Schumi (the old Schumi who was fighting for WDC till last race) is suddenly almost half a second slower to someone?

Trulli was faster than Alonso when they were team mates, now Trulli is equal to Kovalainen - do you think Kovalainen is also therefore faster than Alonso, eh? You just cant compare drivers in different years, in different cars for different teammates and draw conclusions, it just wont work.



Trulli was not faster than Alonso when they were team mates. Massa could not match Schumi in qualifying in 2006. The gap was quite large despite Massa qualifying very well later in the season with a dominant car. The real difference between Massa and Alonso is the difference we are seeing unless you don't accept you are living in the real world. Massa was dominated by Schumacher and now Alonso is doing the same so I don't see the confusion here? Most educated observers always knew this would happen, but I guess some people just find it hard to accept they were wrong and misjudged Alonso and Massa.

#2965 Simon Says

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 08:36

Trulli was not faster than Alonso when they were team mates. Massa could not match Schumi in qualifying in 2006. The gap was quite large despite Massa qualifying very well later in the season with a dominant car. The real difference between Massa and Alonso is the difference we are seeing unless you don't accept you are living in the real world. Massa was dominated by Schumacher and now Alonso is doing the same so I don't see the confusion here? Most educated observers always knew this would happen, but I guess some people just find it hard to accept they were wrong and misjudged Alonso and Massa.


Alonso was getting beat by Trulli untill mysteriously his car became very bad after Brittain in 2004. Trulli opened up and said that his car was not the same anymore and then he got fired and replaced by Villeneuve.

Obviously Flavio was protecting Alonso with his #1 status.

#2966 Ferrari2183

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 09:23

Give it a rest people... Wheelbanger loves writing loooooooong love letters and he "won't let you bash Hamilton" or "belittle him". Whatever you wanna call it.

The fact is, Alonso is seen by many (in the paddock and out) as the benchmark driver of his generation and the fact that he is the youngest double world champion is a fair reflection of his talent and it obviously eeks a few. If Alonso wins the championship this year, and it's a big if, he will become the youngest triple world champion if I'm not mistaken.

So... So what if people don't like him? He has a CV that even 'Mr. Reprimand' would be proud of.

#2967 Lights

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 09:30

I have watched this sport for almost 3 decades, but I have never seen a driver (except Trulli) being kikced out of team in the middle of season when he has done better job than his teammate, just because of one mistake in one race, that is totally absurd. Everybody - and I mean EVERYBODY - could see it was nothing more or less than Briatore wanting to keep his goldenboy out of misery and humility about getting beaten by team mate, he needed to sack Trulli before season was completed as he didnt want to have statistics in history books where mediocre driver like Trulli ends up higher in standings than Alonso with same car.

Would you think it as a clever move from Mercedes, if tomorrow Rosberg would be say, 3rd, in last lap but someone would pass him and he ended up 4th and he would then be fired because of it? Thats what happend to Trulli, he was ahead of teammate in points, used to outqualify him, then suddenly - BANG - he was out of job because he lost a one position in one corner in one race... it wasn´t even that important because it was not a battle of WDC anyway, just one f¤#king mistake - not a biggie. Would you really like to see for example Rosberg kicked out if he would lose one position tomorrow in last lap? Seriously? Is there no limits how fan one can be?

Great post. :up:

The dumbest thing about it is, Trulli looked like the only driver capable of challenging Button for 3rd place in the championship, and with him in the team for the rest of the season they would have easily scored 2nd place in the constructor championship. Instead, they finished a mere 14 points behind BAR, because Villeneuve was unable to score at all.

Edited by Lights, 25 July 2010 - 09:35.


#2968 AlanWake

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 09:38

I don't know, Alan, I really don't know. But given that you were the one admitting just the other day that Hamilton is indeed the best driver on the grid, and that you certainly won't be able to find a post in which I have described his teammate, the current world champion whom he had outqualified mostly by pretty big margins in the preceding six races as "inferior and slow", I can only wonder why you have put those words in quotation marks. I suspect you are using what is called in English a straw man. My Spanish is not idiomatic enough to think of the equivalent - can you help me out?


Well, I made you that question in response to all the things that you say about Alonso.

So you dont know why Button was better than Hamilton yesterday. Yes I know, and I can tell you why: Hamilton is not god, and like any other driver on the grid (Alonso included) only can be as good as his car, and sometimes even do a worse job than his teammate. I just hope you can admit it.
His teammate, Button is not inferior or slow compared to Hamilton, he can do a better job than Hamilton at times like he did in Australia qualifying or yesterday. I'm just sick of reading how much of a superior driver Hamilton is to Button and the rest of the F1 drivers. He is better than Button, of course, but there isn't that big difference between them.

And yes, I think Hamilton has been undoubtedly the best driver in the first half of the season, but things change fast, and at the end of the season I could think differently.

I still think that when Alonso is at his best, he is best driver on the grid: You just have to see what most of F1 drivers believe about who is the best driver in F1: Fernando Alonso. Whom should we believe? The F1 Drivers or the fans?

P.S: I am sorry for my poor English skills. I know it don't allow me to express myself as I would like at times.

#2969 Raggedhedge

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 09:41

Alonso was getting beat by Trulli untill mysteriously his car became very bad after Brittain in 2004. Trulli opened up and said that his car was not the same anymore and then he got fired and replaced by Villeneuve.

Obviously Flavio was protecting Alonso with his #1 status.

Eh? The penultimate corner at the Magny Cour Grand Prix 2004. Does that not mean anything to you. French Renault, French home crowd, humiliation. I always thought most afficiandos of F1 knew that. Oh well.


#2970 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 10:05

is this a "why was trulli fired/or released (by his own willing) from his contract with renault in 2004 thread" or is this an alonso-thread?

Edited by YellowHelmet, 25 July 2010 - 10:05.


#2971 Gene and Tonic

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 10:20

Whilst it is an Alonso thread, this discussion is relevant - although I think it has reached it's course! Alonso fans won't back down, and Alonso bashers won't back down!

#2972 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 10:22

Whilst it is an Alonso thread, this discussion is relevant

? explain me why?
why is trullis release from his contract relevant for alonso


#2973 as65p

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 10:37

Trulli was not faster than Alonso when they were team mates. Massa could not match Schumi in qualifying in 2006. The gap was quite large despite Massa qualifying very well later in the season with a dominant car. The real difference between Massa and Alonso is the difference we are seeing unless you don't accept you are living in the real world. Massa was dominated by Schumacher and now Alonso is doing the same so I don't see the confusion here? Most educated observers always knew this would happen, but I guess some people just find it hard to accept they were wrong and misjudged Alonso and Massa.


The confusion comes about because in between MS and Alonso, Massa was roughly the equal of another teammate, to the ongoing dismay of certain fans of that driver.

#2974 as65p

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 10:45

? explain me why?
why is trullis release from his contract relevant for alonso


Don't you know? If evil Flavio hand't screwed Trullis career with his mafia tactics, Jarno would have driven Alonso into the ground, won the 2005 and 2006 titles then go to McLaren, beat the crap out of Hamilton winning another two titles, then change to Ferrai and lead this years championship by some 50 points. :smoking:

#2975 JKTRacing

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 10:54

No, I'm not an Alonso basher, really, I'm not a fan, but, whatever. Still doesn't make me deserving of being called stupid, but, ok.

Hamilton isn't Dennis's son, and really, up until Lewis reached lower level Formulae, it really wasn't costing Ron so much, maybe 200, or 300k per year max, I know the costs of Karting internationally, and that's pretty much it, and it's not really a hell of a lot for Mr. Dennis. It wasn't really a big investment from Ron until a few years before reaching F1. The thing is, Dennis was right, he had scouted a VERY talented young man.

As far as why Dennis hired Alonso, simple, Alonso was the best driver in the world, why wouldn't he? Dennis has always strived to have the best 2 drivers driving for him. He was going after young Schumacher while he had Hakkinen. So, he always wants the best 2 possible. If I'm not mistaken, he had bagged Alonso even before he knew he had lost Raikkonen.

It doesn't make much sense for a businessman such as Dennis (however an SOB, like him of not, he's just a businessman) to hire Alonso just to have him in there slaved as clear #2 to a rookie, that just doesn't make any sense. What does make sense is that, once Alonso blew out at the boss, the relationship collapsed, and it would make a lot of sense to say that they backed Lewis over Alonso AFTER that time. But until that time, no, I don't think there was any clear indication that Lewis was being favored, actually, the oposite, given that the team fumbled Lewis's pitstop in Melbourne allowing for Alonso to pick up the position (not saying it was on purpose, but conspiracy theorists can have a go at that, just as you have a go at the other side of the story) also there was the Monaco issue, when Lewis was left whining that Alonso was getting preferential treatment. So, you see, it's not as clear cut as you seem to try to paint it.

LOL and nice try about Schumacher! C'mon, really!!

Anyway, I think we've drifted way off the point here, my point was only that Hamilton faired well in relationship with a WDC teammate, nobody can deny that.

Take care, and don't call nice people stupid :stoned:


My point from the beginning was not that Hamilton was favourite at McLaren, but that you called Lewis a mere rookie, when I believe hes experience in racing (from karting to his first F1 race) made him equally experienced as Alonso.

My older brother and I used to go racing in the 90's, and in the van on the way to the racetrack we had this sameargument over and over again, ever since Fernando won the world champs in 96: who had a better CV Alonso or Hamilton? who was better? One had Genis Marco as a mentor, the other Ron Dennis, one had to sacrifice everything every year to try and get sponsors, the other didnt need to think about that because he had the 300k he needed, no matter what.


and guess what, my brother is winning the argument, 2-1 to Alonso


PS: Apologies about the stupid comment, if it had been spoken in normal conversation you wouldnt have been offended.

My Shumi comment, the one people are having a go at, I was trying to say that just because you race for a longer period of time, it doesnt make you better. maybe I should have said: Is the experience Shumi today, faster than the rookie Shumi that first started? or Barrichello? or Trulli? or Fisichella?


#2976 Aerosoul

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 10:58

Last 20 posts are seriously off-topic. Lets get back on track guys :up:

#2977 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 13:39

Great result in the right moment!
The championship is open again!

#2978 Buttoneer

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 13:43

There are threads for the incident today and for the post race discussion. Please avoid trolling in this thread.

#2979 F.M.

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:16

I hope at least one journalist will have the guts to ask Alonso about his own words after the Valencia race:

"I'm sorry for the fans that came to watch such manipulated race"

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#2980 Jelinski619

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:20

Excellent win today. Thoroughly deserved!

Oh no wait that's not right is it.


This isn't trolling. It's an opinion about the driver on which this thread is based. This thread is for discussing Alonso, and I'm discussing Alonso.

#2981 saunarobot

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:24

Yeah puts Alonso's "manipulated race" comments in nice contrast.

#2982 ensign14

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:32

This isn't trolling. It's an opinion about the driver on which this thread is based. This thread is for discussing Alonso, and I'm discussing Alonso.

In the same way it's not trolling to point out that Alonso walked out on a contract with McLaren because they wouldn't change the contract to make him number one, having first threatened to blackmail his boss after he was secretly getting information from another team, and that having stolen a win today it's not trolling to suggest it's a consistent character trait that he is a moral vacuum.

#2983 Aerosoul

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:33

Massa clearly has forgotten the win he was handed over by Kimi -CHINA 08

Someone should have told him to stop pulling such a long face, he's out of WDC. The least he can do is help his teammate to win :wave:

Edited by Aerosoul, 25 July 2010 - 14:34.


#2984 velgajski1

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:34

Brilliant pass on Massa today :D

#2985 Ashitank

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:35

I think Alonso did a good race so did Massa , its just that I would expect Alonso to beat his team mate on track without any team orders.

#2986 tze

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:38

I think Alonso did a good race so did Massa , its just that I would expect Alonso to beat his team mate on track without any team orders.



Heres the reason why I am bored of alonso.... He is a bloody whinger... shown yet again today when he couldnt get past massa on the track.
Team orders? Maybe was not up to him to decide - unfortunately, he will have to live with the stigma in any case

Alonso... :rolleyes:

#2987 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:42

Alonso has no class what so ever. To complain and whinge to the team, effectively getting Ferrari team management to engineer a pass for him against Massa, reminded the world exactly who cry baby Alonso is. Mclaren wouldn't bow to his petulant demands, so he left with his tails between his legs. Now he has started the same BS at Ferrari, and Domenicali acquiesced. Massa is #2. :down:

#2988 kosmos

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:46

Alonso did a fantastic start but Vettel was a little on the edge pushing him. Overall fantastic speed all the race, he closed the 3 sec gap with Felipe in no time.

Regarding the incident, I'm not happy with it, I will take any day a close fight till the last lap than what Ferrari did today, but it happends in every team, save fuel, pit stops, whatever not big deal, but I'm sorry for Massa, this is never a nice thing, even when the team win.

More close to the leaders now, we need another victory next week, without team orders please :wave:

#2989 jjcale

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:47

Another year - another controversy. Since 2007 FA has been trashing his own legacy..... sad.... He could probably have won today without help from the team.

#2990 velgajski1

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:50

I wonder if Alonso feels that this race 'was somehow manipulated' :D



#2991 Watkins74

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:52

Massa clearly has forgotten the win he was handed over by Kimi -CHINA 08

Someone should have told him to stop pulling such a long face, he's out of WDC. The least he can do is help his teammate to win :wave:

It was a 2nd but don't bring that up. It doesn't fit into the anti-Massa theory.

#2992 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:53

I wonder if Alonso feels that this race 'was somehow manipulated' :D

within the team --> sure
from outside --> no

within the team it is okay, and normal
from outside it is not okay!

#2993 velgajski1

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:57

If this results stays than race is manipulated from outside by not handing out penalty for breaking the rule.

#2994 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:57

within the team --> sure
from outside --> no

within the team it is okay, and normal
from outside it is not okay!

That's called team orders and they are illegal.

#2995 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:58

If this results stays than race is manipulated from outside by not handing out penalty for breaking the rule.

as it was in past, in that sense, team orders are very very hard to prove, that is the problem!

#2996 covphoenix

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:58

I wonder if Alonso feels that this race 'was somehow manipulated' :D



:up: :up: :up: :rotfl:

#2997 NadsatII

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:59

Alonso was fantastic today talking to the Spanish press after the race: "We work for a team, that's all"... "It was not the slowest driver of the grid who won the race, was it?"

"Probably, for the British fans, seeing two Ferraris winning and ending the race 40 seconds later must hurt. There will be some fuss in the press until the next Thursday. That's all".

By the way, the Ferraris lapped everyone until P7.



#2998 YellowHelmet

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 14:59

That's called team orders and they are illegal.

as it happens every race,
every decision for a box stop is a team order and it can harm a driver, as it did today webber!
no one is whining!


#2999 showtime

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 15:02

That's called team orders and they are illegal.


They are illegal despite being obvious or not but I don't remember you complaining each time McLaren break that rule.

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#3000 AlanWake

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 15:03

Alonso did a fantastic start but Vettel was a little on the edge pushing him. Overall fantastic speed all the race, he closed the 3 sec gap with Felipe in no time.

Regarding the incident, I'm not happy with it, I will take any day a close fight till the last lap than what Ferrari did today, but it happends in every team, save fuel, pit stops, whatever not big deal, but I'm sorry for Massa, this is never a nice thing, even when the team win.

More close to the leaders now, we need another victory next week, without team orders please :wave:


What Vettel did to Alonso at the start was dirty, stupid and unneccesary :down: That was the main reason why Massa overtook them.

As a F1 Fan first, I really feel bad. I have nothing against team orders if they're used properly, but what Ferrari did today was ugly :|

I just hope Alonso can win the next race on merit.