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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#3151 mkay

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:20

Truth hurts.


?

Alonso is laughing his a*s off at the moment. He's celebrating a 1-2, has the fastest car on the grid, Contador just won the TdF. On top of that, they only had a $100k fine, which is less than he makes per GP.

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#3152 Tifosi90

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:20

My point was that Massa was in front because of circumstances, not because of outright pace. He was outqualified by 0.5 second and in the race was severely outpaced once Alonso was in clean air. Do you need more?

That's really reminiscent of Hamilton/Kovalainen in 2008, except that it was less subtle. Nobody cried for KOV in 2008; why should we do so for Massa this year? Nobody criticized Hamilton for it in 2008, why should we do so for Alonso? He rightfully won the race. Period. Let's move on.


So why didn't the faster Alonso overtake Massa at the first pitstop? Alonso stopped a lap early which gives you a big advantage but the problem was Massa got his lead up to 1.5 seconds and that was too much to make up in one lap. Sure sounds like Alonso was the faster of the two drivers. He had a good chance at the first pitstop but he failed and then he needed the help of his team to get him ahead.

And severely outpaced means the 4 seconds gap he made in 20 laps? Considoring Massa strugless on the hard tyre, being outpaced by 4 seconds after 20 laps doesn't seem so severe to me.... :rotfl:

#3153 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:21

Wow. Smells like sour grapes for Brits today.

What?

#3154 cardin

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:21

why should such words hurt
the intention is cleat, but those are words of a primitive, so they are nothing worth

What's primitive about the question ? The fact that he pointed out how the two 'victories' were possible by breakind the rules ? And Fernando is still very much proud of both them.

#3155 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:21

He did and regained first. Maybe Alonso should of tried it agan instead of using the team people might actualy found respect for the guy.

:up:

#3156 robefc

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:23

Well, I've answered to most of it.

Plus, Alonso is the chosen one at Ferrari and has the most chances of winning the WDC. Pretty logical decision, like the one McLaren made in 2008 in Germany... :smoking:


No you haven't at all. You seem to think that alonso deserved to win because he was quicker in quali and after massa let him through..
I haven't argued against the decision from a team point of view at all, I'm arguing against that claim, which you've made twice.

#3157 Clatter

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:23

?

Alonso is laughing his a*s off at the moment. He's celebrating a 1-2, has the fastest car on the grid, Contador just won the TdF. On top of that, they only had a $100k fine, which is less than he makes per GP.


And your point would be?

#3158 mkay

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:24

What?


Brits are just pissed because Alonso and Ferrari won in a dominating fashion, they have the fastest car and McLaren's title chances (and even RBR's) look a lot less certain. Furthermore, Alonso is probably the most hated driver by the Brit press so to see him triumph and get out of this mess scot-free infuriates them to no end.



#3159 Massa_f1

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:24

Yeah, but the questions were quite in order, actually too polite.



Exactly those moaning saying typical press. It is Alonso's own fault for not beeing able to win on track.

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#3160 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:24

News of the world and daily mirror...not the finest examples of british journalism.

Couple that with the Sun and at least they often provide a good laugh :lol: .

#3161 mkay

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:25

And your point would be?


The truth is that the Brit press' reaction is purely sour grapes.

#3162 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:26

For Uk tabloids, Fernando Alonso is just another pantomime villain, little different from immigrants, caanabis, Kerry Katona...

Journalists working for these rags deserve little attention.

I don't support any of the tabloid papers, I was just reading through the press conference and found the question really funny.

#3163 jimm

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:26

Brits are just pissed because Alonso and Ferrari won in a dominating fashion, they have the fastest car and McLaren's title chances (and even RBR's) look a lot less certain. Furthermore, Alonso is probably the most hated driver by the Brit press so to see him triumph and get out of this mess scot-free infuriates them to no end.



Not sure about all this. The British press has always hated the kind of team orders employed by Ferrari espeiclaly in the Schumacher days. This would have gotten a reaction regardless of the team or the drivers.

#3164 Massa_f1

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:26

The truth is that the Brit press' reaction is purely sour grapes.



Is it crap. There logical quesions were if your going to baiscly cheat your going to have to answer. I aint a McLaren fan either i was a Ferrar fan until today.

Edited by Massa_f1, 25 July 2010 - 18:27.


#3165 Arion

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:27

The truth is that the Brit press' reaction is purely sour grapes.


stop this nonsense about the British, team orders, favoritism always make a good story whichever team it involves.



#3166 Clatter

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:28

The truth is that the Brit press' reaction is purely sour grapes.


No, that's just your way of trying to excuse a question that hits at the heart of the matter.

#3167 showtime

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:29

Q. (Carlos Miquel – Diario AS) Fernando, do you feel that some people are worrying because you are back in the championship?

FA: Maybe it seems like this, yes.


I missed that one :up:

He's a fanboy and I don't like him at all but he was spot on this once.

#3168 Mr2s

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:30

What's primitive about the question ? The fact that he pointed out how the two 'victories' were possible by breakind the rules ? And Fernando is still very much proud of both them.


As anyone whos been involved with motorsport and been the quickest on both those days would be.

#3169 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:30

Brits are just pissed because Alonso and Ferrari won in a dominating fashion, they have the fastest car and McLaren's title chances (and even RBR's) look a lot less certain. Furthermore, Alonso is probably the most hated driver by the Brit press so to see him triumph and get out of this mess scot-free infuriates them to no end.

Oh good point, I forgot all British people are McLaren fans and Ferrari haters :rolleyes: .

#3170 Mr2s

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:32

Is it crap. There logical quesions were if your going to baiscly cheat your going to have to answer. I aint a McLaren fan either i was a Ferrar fan until today.


Good riddance. Perhaps you should follow proper racing elsewhere where competitiors arn't artificially held back, if all youre going to do is pick fault.


#3171 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:33

The truth is that the Brit press' reaction is purely sour grapes.

Their questions were actually factual. Maybe you Alonso fans don't like to be reminded of that.

#3172 mkay

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:33

Q. (Carlos Miquel – Diario AS) Fernando, do you feel that some people are worrying because you are back in the championship?

FA: Maybe it seems like this, yes.


This pretty much summarizes my thought.

Ferrari and Alonso are back in it, and the Brits ain't happy about that.

#3173 mkay

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:34

Their questions were actually factual. Maybe you Alonso fans don't like to be reminded of that.


Facts? Really?

Can you prove it was team orders? Can you prove it wasn't Massa's idea to let Alonso through?

Did Alonso have any effect in this whole story?

You're really grasping at straws. All the facts here are made from precedents and from the team's history.

EDIT: It is quite possibly team orders, because of all the precedents... but can you actually prove it and thus punish the team? I don't think so.

Edited by mkay, 25 July 2010 - 18:35.


#3174 Tomerell

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:37

Santander sponsored driver in Santander sponsored team in Santander sponsored GP, the outcome was obvious when it became possible to manage... makes me sick :down:

#3175 Pa70953

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:37

Shown up by a rookie, team mate made to crash to give him race victory, handed a race victory because for all intents and purposes he could not win outright. Is the sign of the greatest so called driver on the grid. I had a lot of respect for Alonso taking on a seven times world champion and beating him, but for me his reputation is tarnished even if he lifts the championship with style for the for the rest of the season he will not feel like a true champion this year.

#3176 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:38

Facts? Really?

Can you prove it was team orders? Can you prove it wasn't Massa's idea to let Alonso through?

Did Alonso have any effect in this whole story?

You're really grasping at straws. All the facts here are made from precedents and from the team's history.

The facts in that question is that Alonso is actually proud of his Singapore win. And by asking me to prove if it was team orders are you suggesting that it wasn't obviously team orders.

#3177 race

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:39

Q. (Carlos Miquel – Diario AS) Fernando, do you feel that some people are worrying because you are back in the championship?

FA: Maybe it seems like this, yes.


I missed that one :up:

He's a fanboy and I don't like him at all but he was spot on this once.


Actually he couldn't have been further from the truth (as usual). To 99% of people watching the race today, it was a disgrace and Alonso acted disgracefully during the race and in the press conference. The points standing has absolutely nothing to do with that. Blatant fanboys and debate-loving trolls aside, everybody hated it in 2002 and everybody hates it today.

#3178 Clatter

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:39

Good riddance. Perhaps you should follow proper racing elsewhere where competitiors arn't artificially held back, if all youre going to do is pick fault.


We are trying to follow a proper race series where drivers are not artificially allowed past their team mates.

#3179 mkay

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:41

The facts in that question is that Alonso is actually proud of his Singapore win. And by asking me to prove if it was team orders are you suggesting that it wasn't obviously team orders.


What I am suggesting is that one person may see it as a team order, one may not. But to actually PROVE Ferrari was at fault, and thus deserve an appropriate punishment (from no WCC points to race bans), is going to be a lot harder.

Edited by Gareth, 25 July 2010 - 18:57.


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#3180 cardin

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:42

Good riddance. Perhaps you should follow proper racing elsewhere where competitiors arn't artificially held back, if all youre going to do is pick fault.

Don't be ridiculous.

#3181 mgs315

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:42

This pretty much summarizes my thought.

Ferrari and Alonso are back in it, and the Brits ain't happy about that.


On the contrary, as a British McLaren fan I'm happy to have another rival enter the fray. Makes for a better championship. The bit I'm not happy about is the fact Alonso doesn't seem to acknowledge the injustice towards Felipe nor the fact that the F1 following world can see through this facade for what it is. He needs to stop insulting our intelligence. Sure, I'm assuming his immediate post race response is to effectively give a 'no comment' impression in interviews until the situation has been discussed between all those involved but at least be fairly honest about it. At least Michael did that in 2002.

#3182 showtime

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:44

Actually he couldn't have been further from the truth (as usual). To 99% of people watching the race today, it was a disgrace and Alonso acted disgracefully during the race and in the press conference. The points standing has absolutely nothing to do with that. Blatant fanboys and debate-loving trolls aside, everybody hated it in 2002 and everybody hates it today.


So you only hate it when it's too obvious and Ferrari is involved. And you talk about fanboys and trolls...

#3183 kensaundm31

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:46

QUOTE (kensaundm31 @ Jul 25 2010, 17:27)
Alonso has a REALLY bad character.

I've lost count of the amount of times he's been screaming on the radio for the team to allow him to pass a teammate without effort.

I can't remember who I'm quoting:

'The sound of Alonso going past the pits: WWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!'

Spoilt baby.
ENDquote

You mean you can't count to 2?


No. I mean you don't know very much about anything.

Canada2005
USA2007
Gemany2010

Thats at least THREE!

I'm sure there are more i have forgotten and more that havent been broadcast.

YOU FAIL.

#3184 Massa_f1

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:49

Good riddance. Perhaps you should follow proper racing elsewhere where competitiors arn't artificially held back, if all youre going to do is pick fault.



Yea yeah what ever it is Good riddence am glad i have finaly seen the light. I knew this day would come as soon as they signed Alonso the guy is a disgrace and dosent know how to race.

#3185 Tomerell

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:50

Alonso should have at least done what Eddie did in -99 when Salo gave him the victory... He payed the tribute to his teammate for the victory and gave the trophy to Mika... :up:

#3186 race

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:50

What I am suggesting is that one person may see it as a team order, one may not. But to actually PROVE Ferrari was at fault, and thus deserve an appropriate punishment (from no WCC points to race bans), is going to be a lot harder.


A) Millions of people are sure it was a team order and one (you) isn't.
B) Ferrari was already punished, we're just talking about whether they will punished some more. My guess is yes. We're not talking about the death penalty here and there's really no reasonable doubt so the FIA can punish them based on the radio transcripts alone. Whether the FIA choose to do so is another matter as there is no consistency in anything they do.

#3187 moorsey

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:51

Actually he couldn't have been further from the truth (as usual). To 99% of people watching the race today, it was a disgrace and Alonso acted disgracefully during the race and in the press conference. The points standing has absolutely nothing to do with that. Blatant fanboys and debate-loving trolls aside, everybody hated it in 2002 and everybody hates it today.


I totally agree. I'm a Mac fan but I was very impressed with the Ferrari pace and they deserved the 1-2 [hurts to admit that] but to see Massa trodden on as he was today ruined the race for a lot of F1 fans. For me the most sensible penalty would be to reverse the 1-2 result or give Alonso a 5 second penalty which would achieve the same result.

#3188 wj_gibson

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:51

QUOTE (kensaundm31 @ Jul 25 2010, 17:27)
Alonso has a REALLY bad character.

I've lost count of the amount of times he's been screaming on the radio for the team to allow him to pass a teammate without effort.

I can't remember who I'm quoting:

'The sound of Alonso going past the pits: WWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!'

Spoilt baby.
ENDquote



No. I mean you don't know very much about anything.

Canada2005
USA2007
Gemany2010

Thats at least THREE!

I'm sure there are more i have forgotten and more that havent been broadcast.

YOU FAIL.


Remind me when, at Indianapolis in 2007, Alonso was on the radio demanding to be allowed to overtake?

And remind me when he made such a demand today. Unless "this is ridiculous" has suddenly become English for "I demand to be allowed to overtake".

That's actually 1.

Remind me who has failed again?

#3189 Gareth

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:52

The truth is that the Brit press' reaction is purely sour grapes.

The reaction in those questions, to me, smacked of people who don't like being lied to. I understand that feeling.

If I were in Ferrari's shoes and if team orders were legal, I would have done exactly the same as they did. I can't criticise them for it, other than to say it's possibly against one of the rules (a silly one, IMO, but it's there).

The frustrating thing is all the lying. Every statement coming out of Ferrari just says "we think you are all idiots and will buy this bull sh*t". People don't like having their intelligence insulted. Claiming Felipe wasn't ordered to let Alonso through is just that.

#3190 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:52

What I am suggesting is that one person may see it as a team order, one may not. But to actually PROVE Ferrari was at fault, and thus deserve an appropriate punishment (from no WCC points to race bans), is going to be a lot harder.

It is the stewards (and now the WMSC) to look at all available evidence and interpret what they believe had happened. This was so blatant that there is no need for such evidence as a direct radio conversation like in 2002.

#3191 wj_gibson

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:52

Alonso should have at least done what Eddie did in -99 when Salo gave him the victory... He payed the tribute to his teammate for the victory and gave the trophy to Mika... :up:


How do you know that he won't do that?

#3192 kensaundm31

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:53

Remind me when, at Indianapolis in 2007, Alonso was on the radio demanding to be allowed to overtake?

And remind me when he made such a demand today. Unless "this is ridiculous" has suddenly become English for "I demand to be allowed to overtake".

That's actually 1.

Remind me who has failed again?


Just bury your head in the sand.

#3193 Tomerell

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:54

How do you know that he won't do that?


Do you honestly believe your self that he would do that :confused: I don't...

#3194 AlainProstX

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:54

I guess some people here are forgetting the teamorders in Interlagos 2007, Hockenheim 2008, Shanghai 2008, Interlagos 2008 (Kimi wasn`t allowed to attack Alonso and Massa) and Istanbul 2010.

I guess its so easy to point the finger at someone when it comes to Mr. Alonso.

Edit:
I don`t get your problem with Alonsos behavior on the podium. This man was everything, but not really happy.

Edited by AlainProstX, 25 July 2010 - 18:56.


#3195 ensign14

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:54

This pretty much summarizes my thought.

Ferrari and Alonso are back in it, and the Brits ain't happy about that.

You have a thought? Wow.

It seems only to have developed to an embryonic stage, though, as surely had it reached the stage when it should have emerged into public view, it would have concluded that, from the British media perspective, it was better for Alonso to win than Vettel, on the basis that Vettel is even now 13 points closer to Hamilton than Alonso. So why would the British media be dischuffed at Alonso winning a race where Hamilton was stuck in fourth? Unless perhaps the British media actually CARE about rule transgression, whereas, say, the Spanish media don't give a flying monkey's toss so long as "their" guy wins.

#3196 mkay

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:56

A) Millions of people are sure it was a team order and one (you) isn't.
B) Ferrari was already punished, we're just talking about whether they will punished some more. My guess is yes. We're not talking about the death penalty here and there's really no reasonable doubt so the FIA can punish them based on the radio transcripts alone. Whether the FIA choose to do so is another matter as there is no consistency in anything they do.


Easy to refute.

A) Millions of people knew Hamilton had let Kimi through, but he was still slapped with that penalty.

B) McLaren/LH have been DSQ'd in Australia 2009 by stewards but the WMSC only gave them a suspended ban.

As for Ferrari, B is what will happen to them in September.

#3197 Mr2s

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:57

Yea yeah what ever it is Good riddence am glad i have finaly seen the light. I knew this day would come as soon as they signed Alonso the guy is a disgrace and dosent know how to race.


F1 tracks are a disgrace. Last year was the worse for overtaking in over 20 years and yet theres so much hate for the drivers
.
Alonso has sat behind massa twice this season when even Martin Brundle expected them to move over. The time had to come, and you are certainly following the wrong sport if it hurts you that bad. Perhaps you should have tried to follow for at least 1 season to understand a little bit of what goes on. As if Coulthard's and shummis comments wernt enough.

#3198 lexmeister2

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:57

This is so weird, I can't believe people are trying to defend Alonso! The guy was crying like a little girl in his as though Massa should just get out of his way, then when he does he tried to pretend as though he overtook him.

If you're a fan, fair enough, take the win and be happy, but don't try and defend his appalling behaviour and attack the Brits (which is totally uncalled for). I'm a Brit but I wanted Massa to win as he totally deserved that win - Alonso's not close enough to the leaders, nor is Massa far enough out of the championship battle for them to start playing these games. And as above, people's reactions were aggravated by the ridiculous way that Ferrari and Alonso dealt with it.

As far as I'm concerned this was Alonso's doing - there were no team orders at Ferrari from 2007 to 2009, the only thing that's changed is Alonso so instead of penalising the team, they should have disqualified Alonso. I'm glad this happened though, the media has for some reason had Alonso on a pedestal for many years, and now he's come crashing down to who he really is. There's a reason why the controversy seems to follow him around (McLaren, Renault and now Ferrari) and that's because he simply isn't a straight shooter.

#3199 mkay

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:58

You have a thought? Wow.

It seems only to have developed to an embryonic stage, though, as surely had it reached the stage when it should have emerged into public view, it would have concluded that, from the British media perspective, it was better for Alonso to win than Vettel, on the basis that Vettel is even now 13 points closer to Hamilton than Alonso. So why would the British media be dischuffed at Alonso winning a race where Hamilton was stuck in fourth? Unless perhaps the British media actually CARE about rule transgression, whereas, say, the Spanish media don't give a flying monkey's toss so long as "their" guy wins.


The Ferrari is a much better package than the RBR at this point. That's what matters. Everybody is thinking about September/October when Alonso will align wins after wins, unless other drivers/teams wake up.

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#3200 Massa_f1

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 18:59

F1 tracks are a disgrace. Last year was the worse for overtaking in over 20 years and yet theres so much hate for the drivers
.
Alonso has sat behind massa twice this season when even Martin Brundle expected them to move over. The time had to come, and you are certainly following the wrong sport if it hurts you that bad. Perhaps you should have tried to follow for at least 1 season to understand a little bit of what goes on. As if Coulthard's and shummis comments wernt enough.



You can overtake on this track so pointless saying that. If Alonso was so good he would be able to and infact did only to loose out again to Massa.