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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#3851 Aren

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 16:19

Did Alonso not employ a professional fan for a while? That tells me he does care about his image.


IIRC, that guy was contracted by ING. Nothing to do with Alonso himself.


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#3852 Don_Humpador

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 16:24

critical access: i though that it is clear what is meant with it.
sorry if it isnt.
i will try to explain it, with the oppportunities i have with my bad english. :)
critical acces means that you as a journalist tries to evaluate the positive and the negative at once.

maybe critical approach is better :confused:


Yeah I think critical approach is a better way of saying it, thanks for clearing that up :up:

The thing is, like I said before, Joe Saward's blog entry was simply an opinion about Alonso based on what he feels he has seen. It may not be true, it may not be accurate, but that is his opinion and that doesn't necessarily make him a bad journalist. I'm sure he's criticised every driver in the F1 field over a long period of time so I genuinely don't think it's anything personal against Alonso.

#3853 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 16:24

so a personal opinion cant be bad?

Can it be good (in your opinion) if it isn't positive about Alonso?

#3854 YellowHelmet

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 16:25

Can it be good (in your opinion) if it isn't positive about Alonso?

sure it can, alonso is no saint

#3855 undersquare

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 16:27

why is he still not popular in the mainstream media in germany and britain!)


It's because of the way he behaves.

For example: making a lamentable mess of trying to overtake his teammate, so asking for him to be told to move over, and then pretending he didn't.

#3856 YellowHelmet

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 16:27

Yeah I think critical approach is a better way of saying it, thanks for clearing that up :up:

The thing is, like I said before, Joe Saward's blog entry was simply an opinion about Alonso based on what he feels he has seen. It may not be true, it may not be accurate, but that is his opinion and that doesn't necessarily make him a bad journalist. I'm sure he's criticised every driver in the F1 field over a long period of time so I genuinely don't think it's anything personal against Alonso.

a bad article has not to be personal against somebody to be bad (--> in the sense of polemic or demagogic!)

#3857 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 16:30

maybe critical approach is better :confused:

I think you mean 'balanced argument'? In any case he wasn't writing a long article about Alonso's season, where he would have offered a balanced view, instead he was just scribing his opinion about Alonso. It seemed perfectly valid to me.

#3858 F1Champion

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:13

alonso beated hamilton 10:7 on track, despite being mistreated in team!


His mistreatment only came from trying to blackmail Ron Dennis, the team principal. You're totally naive if you don't think that wouldn't lead to a bias towards Hamilton or didn't happen. Why would you want to work with an unsavoury character after that?

#3859 engel

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:18

I don't get this obsessive behavior ... Journalists have opinions and express them, the fact their own personal opinions on occasion don't align with the Alonso is God, the mythical hero that fights against all odds and always wins or is cheated/robbed and loses (which is pretty much the Spanish media line on Alonso) doesn't make their opinions "bad" or "invalid".

Your inability to see flaws, any flaws, in Alonso is quite frankly more disturbing than a journalist pointing a flaw in a blogpost here and there.

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#3860 showtime

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:30

I don't get this obsessive behavior ... Journalists have opinions and express them, the fact their own personal opinions on occasion don't align with the Alonso is God, the mythical hero that fights against all odds and always wins or is cheated/robbed and loses (which is pretty much the Spanish media line on Alonso) doesn't make their opinions "bad" or "invalid".

Your inability to see flaws, any flaws, in Alonso is quite frankly more disturbing than a journalist pointing a flaw in a blogpost here and there.


Just a question, do you think journalist behaviour after Sunday's race was correct?

#3861 velgajski1

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:35

Just a question, do you think journalist behaviour after Sunday's race was correct?


I think it was correct with exception of one journalist (i think it was 1st question) comparing this to Singapore 2008. That was over the top.

#3862 engel

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:39

Just a question, do you think journalist behaviour after Sunday's race was correct?


Journalists by definition have to ask difficult questions, it's their job to get soundbites. This notion of "sanctity" with regards to certain people doesn't exist.

Case in point? Go look up how these journalists treated Hamilton a year ago with liegate. It's their job, it's not personal.

#3863 robefc

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:48

Just a question, do you think journalist behaviour after Sunday's race was correct?


I don't...I think there was a way to ask straight questions but be fair (like croft did) and a way to take cheap shots.

But those 2 british guys are tabloid hacks looking for a rise and a story, they don't represent the british press as a whole and it's not just because it's alonso and ferrari.

There's also a lot of accusations of bias being made against british people here when it's clear that some alonso fans are hardly being objective.

#3864 showtime

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:54

Journalists by definition have to ask difficult questions, it's their job to get soundbites. This notion of "sanctity" with regards to certain people doesn't exist.

Case in point? Go look up how these journalists treated Hamilton a year ago with liegate. It's their job, it's not personal.


I'm ok with difficult questions but you can ask them with education and without making a criminal interrogatory of a press conference. They weren't looking for information, they were accusing and attacking, asking the same one and over again to get what they wanted, they even booed to the Spanish reporter because they didn't like his question. Bringing up things from the past like if they were waiting for something like this to happen in order to jump over Alonso like animals. Do you really think that was an acceptable behaviour? Even Vettel was surprised and disgusted with what was happening.


#3865 engel

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 18:59

I'm ok with difficult questions but you can ask them with education and without making a criminal interrogatory of a press conference. They weren't looking for information, they were accusing and attacking, asking the same one and over again to get what they wanted, they even booed to the Spanish reporter because they didn't like his question. Bringing up things from the past like if they were waiting for something like this to happen in order to jump over Alonso like animals. Do you really think that was an acceptable behaviour? Even Vettel was surprised and disgusted with what was happening.



I didn't watch it to be honest, I just saw the transcripts, but no if it went as you describe it no it's not acceptable behavior, they have to be civil.

#3866 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:01

I think it was correct with exception of one journalist (i think it was 1st question) comparing this to Singapore 2008. That was over the top.

If you are on about the same question I'm thinking of, then that journalist wasn't comparing the incidents, he was comparing the way that Alonso has celebrated both incidents as valid and deserving wins. Which is a valid point to bring up in my opinion.

#3867 showtime

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:02

But those 2 british guys are tabloid hacks looking for a rise and a story, they don't represent the british press as a whole and it's not just because it's alonso and ferrari.


What I don't understand is why they get to be the ones to ask the questions if they don't represent the British press... and also, and I quote one of the journalists that you consider serious: "When the questioning began it was clear that the international media – who, perhaps we should remind everyone, are the representatives of the general public" So they really are representing the fans, well I hope they are not.


#3868 Dunder

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:11

I'm ok with difficult questions but you can ask them with education and without making a criminal interrogatory of a press conference. They weren't looking for information, they were accusing and attacking, asking the same one and over again to get what they wanted, they even booed to the Spanish reporter because they didn't like his question. Bringing up things from the past like if they were waiting for something like this to happen in order to jump over Alonso like animals. Do you really think that was an acceptable behaviour? Even Vettel was surprised and disgusted with what was happening.


The problem with the notion that questions should have been posed politely is that we saw Alonso, Massa, Smedley and Domenicalli simply lie and avoid answering them.

I had no problem with Ferrari doing what they did on track but found the unilateral PC (polite questions) and the BBCs post race coverage (polite questions) to be beyond bizarre.

I understand why Ferrari felt they had to say those things, but if journalists are going to be told that black is white when they make inquires, it should not be a surprise that some chose a different approach.

Edited by Dunder, 28 July 2010 - 19:13.


#3869 showtime

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:23

The problem with the notion that questions should have been posed politely is that we saw Alonso, Massa, Smedley and Domenicalli simply lie and avoid answering them.


And you won't be more successful by behave the other way, which we could see in the press conference. Well, they get what they wanted, Joe Saward criticising Alonso for being evasive in the PC, of course he didn't mention how that PC really went.

#3870 Nitropower

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:29

Did Alonso not employ a professional fan for a while? That tells me he does care about his image.


Come on... it was a promotional campaign from ING...

Edited by Nitropower, 28 July 2010 - 19:30.


#3871 Massacrator

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 19:53

Guys, Alonso is gonna totally own Hungary GP.

If my memory serves me well, he got the pole with that dogcar Renault gave him last year, and was first in the race until he pitted and he had a problem with a tyre and DNF.

I think that with that F10 hes gonna own everyone massively, even if RBR is still a bit ahead in terms of performance :up:

#3872 showtime

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:00

Well, a lot of things can happen in a GP, too much to be so confident. But yeah, it looks promising if we remember where the car was not so long ago.

#3873 robefc

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:03

What I don't understand is why they get to be the ones to ask the questions if they don't represent the British press... and also, and I quote one of the journalists that you consider serious: "When the questioning began it was clear that the international media – who, perhaps we should remind everyone, are the representatives of the general public" So they really are representing the fans, well I hope they are not.


I don't know how they choose who answers the questions but the point is those two guys work for 2 gutter papers in the press, I don't know what the equivalent papers would be from where you are.
They're tabloid journalists not serious journalists, let alone proper F1 journos, they are not a good example of how the rest of the british press work.

For the second point, the public don't get to question the drivers so in that sense the journalists are acting on our behalf.

#3874 robefc

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:04

If you are on about the same question I'm thinking of, then that journalist wasn't comparing the incidents, he was comparing the way that Alonso has celebrated both incidents as valid and deserving wins. Which is a valid point to bring up in my opinion.


It was a cheapshot, pure and simple

#3875 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:06

If my memory serves me well, he got the pole with that dogcar Renault gave him last year.

Maybe you should remember also that he was on fumes on that pole lap, it was an extremely compromised strategy.

#3876 molive

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:08

Guys, Alonso is gonna totally own Hungary GP.



Like he did with the German GP?

Oh, wait, I forgot, he needed some help to "own" that one.;)

#3877 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:15

It was a cheapshot, pure and simple

Oh yeah, the way that journalist (News Of The World wasn't it?) put it was just to make a cheapshot. But the general point behind the question was reasonable IMO.

#3878 Slowinfastout

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:18

It was a cheapshot, pure and simple


Since Alonso considers Singapore '08 a legitimate win, he shouldn't shy away from the questions about it... even if it comes from shoddy journos..

#3879 robefc

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:19

Oh yeah, the way that journalist (News Of The World wasn't it?) put it was just to make a cheapshot. But the general point behind the question was reasonable IMO.


That was the problem, there were legitimate hard questions that needed to be asked but, for whatever reasons, those idiots were allowed to ask questions rather than someone who could have done it in a non-sensationalist but straight down the line way.

I would like to think given a non-provocative question alonso might just have intimated that he does not value a win done in this way as highly as a win where he doesn't need to rely on his teammate in terms of for himself but for the team it was a great result.

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#3880 jjcale

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:25

It was a cheapshot, pure and simple


Someone needs to ask him some hard questions... F1 journos as a group are much too supine.

They should have told FA and the others from Ferrari that they were blatantly lying and trying to take people for fools (but failing to do so and just looking crooked) and then asked them to respond.

If FA was a politician (which in a sense he is) he would have deserved to be eaten alive by the journos.

#3881 P123

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:32

Guys, Alonso is gonna totally own Hungary GP.

If my memory serves me well, he got the pole with that dogcar Renault gave him last year, and was first in the race until he pitted and he had a problem with a tyre and DNF.

I think that with that F10 hes gonna own everyone massively, even if RBR is still a bit ahead in terms of performance :up:


He is normally very good in Hungary so must be favourite. I don't think last year is much of a barometer though as he did have half the fuel of the other front runners.

#3882 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:34

That was the problem, there were legitimate hard questions that needed to be asked but, for whatever reasons, those idiots were allowed to ask questions rather than someone who could have done it in a non-sensationalist but straight down the line way.

I'm not too sure how they decide who get's to ask questions. There must be a limited amount of journos, papers and television companies that get to ask questions, so maybe there is some sort of rota system?

I would like to think given a non-provocative question alonso might just have intimated that he does not value a win done in this way as highly as a win where he doesn't need to rely on his teammate in terms of for himself but for the team it was a great result.

Well unfortunately he was asked about Singapore 2008 (after the scandal had been leaked) in a very sensible fashion, yet he still claimed it was a proper and deserved win. A guy that sees Singapore 2008 as a decent win isn't going to see Germany 2010 any different, unfortunately :well: .

#3883 robefc

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:34

Someone needs to ask him some hard questions... F1 journos as a group are much too supine.

They should have told FA and the others from Ferrari that they were blatantly lying and trying to take people for fools (but failing to do so and just looking crooked) and then asked them to respond.

If FA was a politician (which in a sense he is) he would have deserved to be eaten alive by the journos.


I don't disagree but my post above yours explains my view on this I think

#3884 robefc

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:36

Well unfortunately he was asked about Singapore 2008 (after the scandal had been leaked) in a very sensible fashion, yet he still claimed it was a proper and deserved win. A guy that sees Singapore 2008 as a decent win isn't going to see Germany 2010 any different, unfortunately :well: .


Well I just like to think he would admit it but perhaps he really believes he deserves to win because he was quicker at the weekend.

#3885 jjcale

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:42

I don't disagree but my post above yours explains my view on this I think


Yes. Many are muppets at being journos both in being strong and in asking the right questions... People who have the skill and backbone to ask the right questions dont become F1 journos.

#3886 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:43

Well I just like to think he would admit it but perhaps he really believes he deserves to win because he was quicker at the weekend.

If true it would again hint towards his pretentious nature.

#3887 undersquare

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 20:45

Guys, Alonso is gonna totally own Hungary GP.

If my memory serves me well, he got the pole with that dogcar Renault gave him last year, and was first in the race until he pitted and he had a problem with a tyre and DNF.

I think that with that F10 hes gonna own everyone massively, even if RBR is still a bit ahead in terms of performance :up:


You think? Normally at Hungary he either has his right front wheel come off or gets a penalty, or both

:p

and ISTR his fuel load had something to do with pole...

#3888 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 22:45

FAlonso is a trouble maker:

> Was punished in his 1st passage through Renault due to the mass damper and trapping Massa in his stream [Monza].
> (...)


Yeah right :rotfl:

#3889 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 22:50

I think it was correct with exception of one journalist (i think it was 1st question) comparing this to Singapore 2008. That was over the top.


I also think it was correct (edit: well, the NOTW guy was not "correct" as such, but IMHO within expected limits of today's crap journalism). What I don't think is correct that in other cases that did not involve Alonso (edit: as the suspected perpetrator), the journalists were much softer and did not ask the tough questions like they did after Germany.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 28 July 2010 - 22:55.


#3890 F1EC

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 23:14

Like he did with the German GP?

Oh, wait, I forgot, he needed some help to "own" that one.;)

:lol: :up:


#3891 Nitropower

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 23:16

I wonder what would happen in England if Spanish journalists asked Hamilton about cranes, liegates, team orders, favouritism, FIA's eternal forgiveness etc. the way these mediocre tabloid draftsmen did.

#3892 syph0nJZ05

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 23:33

I wonder what would happen in England if Spanish journalists asked Hamilton about cranes, liegates, team orders, favouritism, FIA's eternal forgiveness etc. the way these mediocre tabloid draftsmen did.

Oh come on, the Spanish media are constantly attacking Hamilton. They have done ever since 2007.

#3893 Dunder

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 23:41

I wonder what would happen in England if Spanish journalists asked Hamilton about cranes, liegates, team orders, favouritism, FIA's eternal forgiveness etc. the way these mediocre tabloid draftsmen did.


Those same 'newspapers' (NOTW) have attempted to slaughter Hamilton before.
They will attack anyone quite frankly.


#3894 undersquare

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 23:44

I wonder what would happen in England if Spanish journalists asked Hamilton about cranes, liegates, team orders, favouritism, FIA's eternal forgiveness etc. the way these mediocre tabloid draftsmen did.


Cranes? Are you calling that the driver's fault? :drunk:

But anyway in Oz this year the journos did grill Lewis about liegate.

#3895 David Ricardo

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 23:48

Cranes? Are you calling that the driver's fault? :drunk:

But anyway in Oz this year the journos did grill Lewis about liegate.

Not saying that it is driver´s fault, but he benefits from some kind of special treatment. The same as with the Hockeheim team orders affaire.

#3896 ForeverF1

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 23:50

Guys, this is not a Hamilton thread, please stay with the topic of Fernando Alonso. Thanks.

#3897 Kovalonso

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 23:53

Yeah right :rotfl:

Alonso was punished - grid penalty - for screwing Massa's qualifying lap.
So Massa was just redeeming himself in German.

#3898 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 06:18

Alonso was punished - grid penalty - for screwing Massa's qualifying lap.


I know, and I've never seen anyone before who thinks that this was a correct decision by the stewards, not even on this BB. That's why I was laughing at the OP

#3899 AlanWake

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 08:12

Happy Birthday, Fernando!!! :clap:

I hope he celebrates his birthday winning in Hungary :up: I believe he is going to be untouchable this weekend.

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#3900 AlanWake

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 08:13

Alonso was punished - grid penalty - for screwing Massa's qualifying lap.
So Massa was just redeeming himself in German.


:lol: