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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#4001 kosmos

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 16:37

New video interview with Fernando.

http://www.ferrari.c...ndo_Alonso.aspx

:up:

New blog entry.

http://www.ferrari.c...to-winning.aspx

The blog entry and the video interview are almost the same, I guess this is how they do it, they interview Alonso and some guy from the PR team transform the interview into a blog entry.

Edited by kosmos, 03 August 2010 - 16:56.


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#4002 Birelman

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 04:26

1. Webber - 49 (53) 4 wins
2. Hamilton - 47 (49) 2
3. Vettel - 43 (45) 2
4. Alonso - 41 (43) 2
4. Button - 41 (43) 2
6. Massa - 23

--------------------------

Alonso in in the fight , YES!!

just one question, why is Alonso 4th ahead of Button and not 4th behind Button?

#4003 ViMaMo

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 06:07

just one question, why is Alonso 4th ahead of Button and not 4th behind Button?


Maybe no of podiums? I copied from the other thread.

#4004 showtime

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:55

just one question, why is Alonso 4th ahead of Button and not 4th behind Button?


Same number of 1st, 2nd and 3rd places but one more 4th place

#4005 Lukin83

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:22

Eric Boullier of Renault seems to not be a fan of Alonso: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85844

#4006 Mackey

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:30

Really stupid comments from Boullier, let´s see how many championships Kubica wins with Renault.... And the same Kubica who was desperate to change teams and has signed with Renault because he has no better option for next year

#4007 maverick69

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:51

Really stupid comments from Boullier, let´s see how many championships Kubica wins with Renault.... And the same Kubica who was desperate to change teams and has signed with Renault because he has no better option for next year


Are they? He's only stating the obvious:

*Kubica gains the teams focus and respect by leading by example.

*Alonso expects the teams focus and respect... and the toys come flying out of the pram if it doesn't happen.

#4008 kosmos

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:17

So, is he saying that Alonso did a crap job on Renault (2nd time), because he signed the Ferrari contract way before leaving Renault?. :confused:

Anyway, let's see if Boullier can lead the team to the victory like Briatore did. I like Kubica a lot, I wish the best luck for the team.

Edited by kosmos, 04 August 2010 - 11:18.


#4009 Massacrator

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:19

Alonso gained Ferrari's respect, who cares about Renault respecting it or not now that he left? Not me

#4010 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:24

Eric Boullier of Renault seems to not be a fan of Alonso: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85844

nothing more than the old political system of the three letters (sorry for my bad english)

a new boss asks his antecessor for some proposals what he should do if he has some problems within the company.
the antecessor writes him 3 letters, which should be opened in a proper order, if the problems wont disappear.
after one year the new boss has problems and opens the first letter, in that is written, say that all problems are down to your antecessor and that this legacy problems will be solved --> thats what boullier did now!
after a second year the problems are still there and the new boss opens the second letter, in that is written, fire some of your employees and say that you need reliable persons who can realise your ideas (maybe next year or in two years he will have to do that)
after a third year the problems are still there and he opens the third letter, in that is written, write three new letters.


nothing to wonder about,
boullier must explain, why renault is lacking performance

Edited by YellowHelmet, 04 August 2010 - 11:25.


#4011 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:30

boullier must explain, why renault is lacking performance

:confused: It looks to me that Boullier is explaining why Renault have gained in performance.

Last season they were 8th in the WCC, lost manufacturer backing, lost their superstar driver, lost their two most senior management figures and were utterly demoralised by the Singapore scandal. This season they are fighting for 4th in the WCC.

Renault this season is a success story: Boullier has no problems to explain away. His statements actually take credit away from him, as a lot of the reasons he gives for the improvement were not his decisions. This is the opposite of the "three letters" situation.

#4012 Peppe

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:34

Or explain why they have improved from last season.

#4013 robefc

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:34

So, is he saying that Alonso did a crap job on Renault (2nd time), because he signed the Ferrari contract way before leaving Renault?. :confused:

Anyway, let's see if Boullier can lead the team to the victory like Briatore did. I like Kubica a lot, I wish the best luck for the team.


It stands to reason that someone in Alonso's position 2008-2009 would not be as motivated towards pushing the team as Kubica is now.
That's not a criticism of alonso, it would be the same if you inserted two different names but kept their relative situations the same.
Imagine the difference between hamilton pushing mclaren as he (hopefully!) is now versus if he'd left them and gone back to them for a 2 year sabbatical whilst he waited to escape to ferrari/a top team.

#4014 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:35

Renault this season is a success story:

if you think that a 5th place in WCC is a success, than you will have to use this three letters very quick. :drunk:


#4015 Zhuk

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:39

Boullier is crazy, Alonso led Renault to two World Champsionships, even when he had signed for Mclaren, Fernando deserves more respect from a guy who is a newbie to formula 1 and is doing all this trash talking without even winning a race yet.

#4016 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:42

Boullier is crazy, Alonso led Renault to two World Champsionships, even when he had signed for Mclaren, Fernando deserves more respect from a guy who is a newbie to formula 1 and is doing all this trash talking without even winning a race yet.

just the old story of the three letters, nothing to worry about!

#4017 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:42

if you think that a 5th place in WCC is a success, than you will have to use this three letters very quick. :drunk:

If you think that Renault fighting for 4th is a failure, given the position they were in at the end of last season and the expectations for this, then you know little about F1.

Can you show me a single line in this article that suggests Boullier is offering excuses for failure, rather than reasons for improvement: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85844

#4018 Buttoneer

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:43

if you think that a 5th place in WCC is a success, than you will have to use this three letters very quick. :drunk:

It is a success when last year they were 8th. Surely you see that is an improvement, yes?

#4019 maverick69

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:45

if you think that a 5th place in WCC is a success, than you will have to use this three letters very quick. :drunk:


But what if they had say, Heidfeld in the other car? Histroy shows that he'd be somewhere close to Kubica. That would put them well clear of Mercedes and knocking on the door for 3rd. Not bad for a team who have had to run a rookie pay-driver :wave:

Edited by maverick69, 04 August 2010 - 11:46.


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#4020 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:07

If you think that Renault fighting for 4th is a failure, given the position they were in at the end of last season and the expectations for this, then you know little about F1.

renault is a team that is now in 5th wcc with no chances of winning!
what boullier is trying is to construe an improvement comparing to last year, when renault stopped develop their car (properly, already at the mid-season! brawn or honda showed what that can mean for the next season!)
boullier must construe a picture of improvement although there is none.

(era briatore and alonso!)
2002 renault 4th WCC no wins no podiums in comeback season! (without alonso as a race driver)
2003 renault 4th WCC 1 win 5 podiums
2004 renault 3th WCC 1 win 6 podiums
2005 renault 1st WCC 8 wins 18 podiums
2006 renault 1st WCC 8 wins 19 podiums
2007 renault 3rd WCC 0 wins 1 podium (without alonso)
2008 renault 4th WCC 2 wins 4 podiums
2009 renault 8th WCC 0 wins 1 podium (with a car that was not improved properly over the year!)

(era boullier)
2010 renault 5th WCC 0 wins 2 podiums (a car that is still under development!)

how can boullier talk about improvement to the era of flavio and fernando :confused:

there is no improvement, there is just distraction from the truth and looking for culprits (in the old three letters manner!)

Can you show me a single line in this article that suggests Boullier is offering excuses for failure, rather than reasons for improvement: http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85844


I said in the first letter it is written: after one year the new boss has problems and opens the first letter, in that is written, say that all problems are down to your antecessor and that this legacy problems will be solved --> thats what boullier did now!

and boullier is saying:

I think there was a lack of management, a lack of guidance from the top management, a lack of clear objective.

classic first letter

boullier has now two more letters to open! (after only half a year, wooow!)

Edited by YellowHelmet, 04 August 2010 - 12:15.


#4021 Mika Mika

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:15

how can boullier talk about improvement to the era of flavio and fernando :confused:


Because it has improved - Kubica is arguably doing a better job than Alonso this year... Less mistakes certianly.

And Flavio is a proven cheat so cant do worse without ordering your teammate to crashe really!



#4022 Massacrator

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:20

Because it has improved - Kubica is arguably doing a better job than Alonso this year... Less mistakes certianly.

And Flavio is a proven cheat so cant do worse without ordering your teammate to crashe really!

How is Kubica doing a better job? Alonso won 2xWDC there.

You will bring the fact that those year's car was very competitive compared to today's.

And I will bring the fact that this year's car is more competitive than the 2008's and 2009's car.

We will end the discussion here, probably. :)

Edited by Massacrator, 04 August 2010 - 12:22.


#4023 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:28

how can boullier talk about improvement to the era of flavio and fernando :confused:

1-3-4-5-8 is a clear downward trend.

8-5 is an upward trend

There is an improvement.

Can you find me a respected commentator on F1 who thinks this season Renault have failed?

From this article: Handing out mid-season awards

Surprise of the year
Winner: Renault returning to form

Twelve months ago Renault was on the verge of its biggest crisis in F1, with the fallout from the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix putting the French car manufacturer on the brink of pulling out of F1. Fast forward to the start of this season and no-one thought Renault had a chance – apart from the men toiling away at Enstone. And while the glory days of the past may still be a big push away, the rate of development in 2010, allied to stunning drives from Robert Kubica, have been great to watch.


I said in the first letter it is written: after one year the new boss has problems

Point is Renault are not having problems. They are doing much better than expected. You are trying to make out they have problems to justify this silly "three letters" stuff.

#4024 sosidge

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:28

1. Webber - 49 (53) 4 wins
2. Hamilton - 47 (49) 2
3. Vettel - 43 (45) 2
4. Alonso - 41 (43) 2
4. Button - 41 (43) 2
6. Massa - 23

--------------------------

Alonso in in the fight , YES!!


There is no point posting tables based on old points systems. The only one that matters is the 2010 system...

1 Mark Webber Australian RBR-Renault 161
2 Lewis Hamilton British McLaren-Mercedes 157
3 Sebastian Vettel German RBR-Renault 151
4 Jenson Button British McLaren-Mercedes 147
5 Fernando Alonso Spanish Ferrari 141

Hamilton's retirement made Sunday a good day for Alonso. Despite still being fifth, he's closed the gap on the leader to 20 points from 31 on Saturday.

I think it's fair to say that Red Bull and Ferrari have a performance advantage over McLaren, if they keep focused on maximising their weekends from now on, Hamilton will drop out of contention. Button looks out of it already. Webber leads the championship but I still don't realistically see him taking the title, he has had another of his lucky runs and it is sure to balance out.

The development race has plateaued, the pecking order within the teams is settled, so results are looking more predictable for the rest of the season.

So the good news for Alonso is that he is just 10 points behind the most serious contender for the title (Vettel). If he can keep putting the Ferrari in between the Red Bulls on a Saturday or Sunday, and keep maximising his return, he is in a good position. No more time for silly errors and misjudgements.

Best of all, we should be treated to a gripping title battle anyway, with all of the top 5 in with a shout if lady luck shines on them at the right moment!

#4025 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:38

8-5 is an upward trend

There is an improvement.

after they stopped developing the 2009 car and concentrated on 2010, that is not enough!
if renault had developed the last year cars till the end as mclaren did, they wouldnt be 8th in classement!
so starting 2010 already early in 2009 a fifth place cant be an improvement compared to the achievements renault is capable of when they develop their car through the year (as seen 2002-2008!)
and boullier must explain this!



Point is Renault are not having problems. They are doing much better than expected. stuff.

point is renault are loosing more and more groung to the front runners --> problem
they were expexting to be in the top 4 and they are not!


You are trying to make out they have problems to justify this silly "three letters"

you called them silly, the thing is they may be silly, but that is the way how it works in the higher management jobs, you can make maybe two excuses but than it is over!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 04 August 2010 - 12:40.


#4026 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:41

after they stopped developing the 2009 car and concentrated on 2010, that is not enough!
if renault had developed the last year cars till the end as mclaren did, they wouldnt be 8th in classement!
so starting 2010 already early in 2009 a fifth place cant be an improvement compared to the achievements renault is capable of when they develop their car through the year (as seen 2002-2008!)
and boullier must explain this!

Who must he explain it to?

As far as I can tell, you are the only person in the world who thinks that Renault are failing to meet expectations this year. Virtually everybody else thinks they are exceeding them.

they were expexting to be in the top 4 and they are not!

Evidence for this, please?

you called them silly, the thing is they may be silly, but that is the way how it works in the higher management jobs, you can make maybe two excuses but than it is over!

The concept makes sense. The concept, however, applies to a manager who is not succeeding. Therefore applying the concept to a manager who is succeeding is silly.

#4027 undersquare

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:51

Wow well for someone 'not wanting to criticise anybody' Bouiller certainly did a pretty thorough job of it!

"drivers which were not easy to work with, very arrogant and not pushing the team in the right way."

#4028 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 12:59

Who must he explain it to?

sponsors, the persons he told to be closer to the frontrunners, his big bosses etc.

Evidence for this, please?


look here (in german)

Aber wir orientieren uns an Mercedes. Die wollen wir schlagen


we orientate our selves on mercedes. we want to beat them !
and later he talks about defending the 4th place

Therefore applying the concept to a manager who is succeeding is silly.

a fifth place is not a success!
especially after they already started in 2009 to concentrate for 2010!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 04 August 2010 - 13:04.


#4029 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:14

sponsors, the persons he told to be closer to the frontrunners, his big bosses etc.

look here (in german)

we orientate our selves on mercedes. we want to beat them !
and later he talks about defending the 4th place


a fifth place is not a success!
especially after they already started in 2009 to concentrate for 2010!

They are only 26 points off Mercedes. They are in the fight for 4th place. I think that article demonstrates that they are hitting the goals they would like.

I think you are the only person who thinks Renault are failing to meet expectations this season. Most people think they are exceeding them.

I think you have invented this theory that they are failing to meet expectations to try and explain away some less than complimentary words about your favourite driver.

#4030 cardin

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:17

Wow well for someone 'not wanting to criticise anybody' Bouiller certainly did a pretty thorough job of it!

"drivers which were not easy to work with, very arrogant and not pushing the team in the right way."


Did he say anything new ? Everybody already know how Alonso is and how he operates.

#4031 Buttoneer

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:20

a fifth place is not a success!
especially after they already started in 2009 to concentrate for 2010!

So Renault move from 8th to 5th having concentrated on 2010 early, and that is not success.

Ferrari moved 4th to 3rd having concentrated on 2010 early.

Domenicalli should blame last years team but maybe really, it's this years?

#4032 Johnrambo

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:20

Renault are on the up because they got rid of FA and inserted a better driver (Kubica) in his place. :wave:

Edited by Johnrambo, 04 August 2010 - 13:21.


#4033 maverick69

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:21

They are only 26 points off Mercedes. They are in the fight for 4th place. I think that article demonstrates that they are hitting the goals they would like.

I think you are the only person who thinks Renault are failing to meet expectations this season. Most people think they are exceeding them.

I think you have invented this theory that they are failing to meet expectations to try and explain away some less than complimentary words about your favourite driver.




:up:

#4034 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:22

I think you are the only person who thinks Renault are failing to meet expectations this season. Most people think they are exceeding them.

if a top team, as renault is and as mercedes is, are not possible to fight for a victory, at at least one circuit they are failing to meet expectations!
that is my view.
and from my point of view, this years renault is not that bad, maybe even better than mercedes, and therefore i am also expecting them to overtake mercedes, and with kubica and a hopefully stronger becoming petrov, they will achieve it.

it is not wise to make expectations just because of the last year (especially, after the last year is not significant, after renault stopped concentrating on 2009 early in the season!)
i see renault as a top 4 team, as they showed to be 2002-2008!
and i am not the only one who expects that from renault!



I think you have invented this theory that they are failing to meet expectations to try and explain away some less than complimentary words about your favourite driver.

see what i wrote above


#4035 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:24

So Renault move from 8th to 5th having concentrated on 2010 early, and that is not success.

no because 2009 was not representative!

#4036 Buttoneer

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:25

no because 2009 was not representative!

Yes it's easy to dismiss facts which don't fit ones own personal bias.

#4037 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:27

Yes it's easy to dismiss facts which don't fit ones own personal bias.

come on:
i also try to disclaim to make it easy for me, by calling things personal bias.
i try to explain them, how i see them.
and i explained why i dont think 2009 is representative for renaults strength (and not only for their!)
please explain me, why you see it differently

#4038 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:34

I remain utterly unconvinced that Renault are doing worse than expected and that Boullier is having to come up with excuses for this. To me, his statements are clearly an explanation of improvement not an attempt to excuse failure.

I therefore find the claim that he is making stuff up to excuse his failure ludicrous.

Which leaves me wondering why he would say these things unless he genuinely believes them.

#4039 showtime

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:35

a driver is a key asset for the team and if the driver is not motivated, not pushing the team enough... because he knew he was moving on.

He clearly didn't give everything for the team...

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#4040 TURU

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:37

a driver is a key asset for the team and if the driver is not motivated, not pushing the team enough... because he knew he was moving on.

He clearly didn't give everything for the team...

Posted Image


Oh, come one :drunk: . I'm going to cry :cry: ... :lol:

#4041 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:40

I remain utterly unconvinced that Renault are doing worse than expected and that Boullier is having to come up with excuses for this. To me, his statements are clearly an explanation of improvement not an attempt to excuse failure.

under normal conditions they are a top 4 team!
they are now just 5th and they are loosing ground to the front runners (with mercedes they seem to be about equal!)

I therefore find the claim that he is making stuff up to excuse his failure ludicrous.

he is trying to distract from his failures, by acting as a 5th place in wcc is an improvement :drunk: and that he had a lot to do after the last years driving crew and management messed up :drunk:


Which leaves me wondering why he would say these things unless he genuinely believes them.

he is a mananger, and has to look for arguments, why he is the right person (the best way to do it is in comparison to others!)!

Edited by YellowHelmet, 04 August 2010 - 13:41.


#4042 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:43

An argument why he is the right person: "we have improved from 8th to 5th because I came up with a new management structure". An argument why he is not the right person: "we have improved from 8th to 5th because of driver changes that were made before my time".

Given he's saying the latter, I'm still wondering why he would say it if he doesn't believe it is true.

#4043 TURU

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:45

under normal conditions they are a top 4 team!
they are now just 5th and they are loosing ground to the front runners (with mercedes they seem to be about equal!)


he is trying to distract from his failures, by acting as a 5th place in wcc is an improvement :drunk: and that he had a lot to do after the last years driving crew and management messed up :drunk:



he is a mananger, and has to look for arguments, why he is the right person (the best way to do it is in comparison to others!)!


I think you should go and sleep with it. Maybe a bit of sleep will help you, because at the moment you are talking total Bullshit.

#4044 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:45

An argument why he is the right person: "we have improved from 8th to 5th because I came up with a new management structure". An argument why he is not the right person: "we have improved from 8th to 5th because of driver changes that were made before my time".

Given he's saying the latter, I'm still wondering why he would say it if he doesn't believe it is true.

he is saying

I think there was a lack of management, a lack of guidance from the top management, a lack of clear objective.

:wave:

#4045 as65p

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:48

I remain utterly unconvinced that Renault are doing worse than expected and that Boullier is having to come up with excuses for this. To me, his statements are clearly an explanation of improvement not an attempt to excuse failure.

I therefore find the claim that he is making stuff up to excuse his failure ludicrous.

Which leaves me wondering why he would say these things unless he genuinely believes them.


Well, that's not too difficult. He's bigging up himself and his work in gathering the team up after the scandal, chosing the right driver and supposedly going on to unparalleled future sucess...  ;)

Exactly what all team managers do, especially the "unproven" ones.

What I find funny is that I personally consider Kubica of pretty much the same mould as Alonso. As we've seen at BMW already he certainly won't hold back when he thinks something goes wrong in the team, in whatever way, be it technical or otherwise. Right now it's pretty much still the honeymoon period, let's see how it goes when Renault starts to stagnate or falls back in the near future.

#4046 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:49

But that is not the bit we are talking about. The bit we are talking about is:

The key for me is that the driver pushes the team because he wants to win, he clearly wants to do the best he can. That will change the scenario completely. For me that was the biggest weakness of the team last year, drivers not committed.

Alonso back at Renault after the McLaren situation, and being signed for Ferrari... a driver is a key asset for the team and if the driver is not motivated, not pushing the team enough... because he knew he was moving on. That was a key thing for me, and this is what Kubica did. He brought a lot of freshness and a lot of motivation.

No management to guide the team, and drivers which were not easy to work with, very arrogant and not pushing the team in the right way. That was clearly the main two components of what was wrong

Boullier is saying that 50% of the reasons for why they are doing better this year than last is something that he had nothing to do with.

The suggestion he is only saying that to make himself look good is odd because it achieves the opposite.

#4047 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:56

Boullier is saying that 50% of the reasons for why they are doing better this year than last is something that he had nothing to do with.

where did he say that?





The suggestion he is only saying that to make himself look good is odd because it achieves the opposite.

i think there are some reasons for what he is saying:
1: to distract from the renaults performance
2: to construe an improvement (although last year was not representative)
3: to show a change, due to him and his management skills
4: to construe a picture that they will improve under his regiment even more, if the bosses stick with him and so implicitly asks for continuity and for some sponsor money, because renault is now a NEW TEAM!
(there are maybe even more points, but that are the four points, i can think about ad hoc)

Edited by YellowHelmet, 04 August 2010 - 13:57.


#4048 as65p

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 13:58

But that is not the bit we are talking about. The bit we are talking about is:


Boullier is saying that 50% of the reasons for why they are doing better this year than last is something that he had nothing to do with.

The suggestion he is only saying that to make himself look good is odd because it achieves the opposite.


Okay, then he's saying that, maybe he believes it too, that Alonso was Renaults problem the last two years.

Do you believe it? All I can see is a team that produces a shit car in 2008, improved it considerably with Alonso as their driver (and as Boullier insists he must have contributed at least 50 percent to it, right?), only to produce another shit car the next season during which Alonso finally signs with another team. And only at that point I expect Alonso's commitment to have dropped, quite understandably. Yet what I also believe is that had Renault produced a winning car for 2009, he might not even be at Ferrari this year. It always goes both ways...

#4049 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:00

where did he say that?

"drivers which were not easy to work with [are] clearly [one of] the main two components of what was wrong"

"[drivers not committed] was the biggest weakness of the team last year"

The change in driver line up had nothing to do with him.

#4050 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:03

"drivers which were not easy to work with [are] clearly [one of] the main two components of what was wrong"

"[drivers not committed] was the biggest weakness of the team last year"

The change in driver line up had nothing to do with him.

who did that? i mean who signed kubica and petrov