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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#4051 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:05

Kubica was signed before Genii even bought into the team, let alone before Boullier was appointed.

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#4052 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:11

Kubica was signed before Genii even bought into the team, let alone before Boullier was appointed.

okay kubica was signed before bouiller, but the thing is, bouiller can argue that he made kubica feel comfortable in renault through his good management and his visions and therefore this success (which i dont call a success) is down to his skills.

#4053 Watkins74

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:11

I thought one of the main criticisms of Alonso was that he was to committed? To demanding and powerful within a team. Now suddenly Renaults problem was Fernando was not committed?

By the way, I just read an article that Fernando "Mr. No Commitment" Alonso spent all day yesterday on the driver simulator trying to improve the car.

Edited by Watkins74, 04 August 2010 - 14:11.


#4054 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:11

Okay, then he's saying that, maybe he believes it too, that Alonso was Renaults problem the last two years.

Do you believe it? All I can see is a team that produces a shit car in 2008, improved it considerably with Alonso as their driver (and as Boullier insists he must have contributed at least 50 percent to it, right?), only to produce another shit car the next season during which Alonso finally signs with another team. And only at that point I expect Alonso's commitment to have dropped, quite understandably. Yet what I also believe is that had Renault produced a winning car for 2009, he might not even be at Ferrari this year. It always goes both ways...

I don't agree that there was a chance he stayed at Renault. I think it was pretty obvious that Renault was a stepping stone for him, whilst he waited for a Ferrari seat to become available. I suspect he had an agreement with Ferrari prior to his final race contract (similar to Kimi) that meant he was very confident he would be a Ferrari driver long before it was finally announced. I also think that the staff at Renault will have known/suspected this.

Combine this with the staff knowing that the team was 100% centered around him, and I can see why this would be demotivating for them.

Building a team around a star driver and supporting him as your number 1 works well for a WDC bid, IMO. When you have produced a midfield car and you know that the star driver isn't going to be around for very much longer, I don't think it's an approach that works well.

It's a failure I would consider to be one of Renault's (mis)management, rather than of Alonso's. But I can see why resentment would have grown within the team and why Boullier would come to hear of this resentment. I don't think it is something that Alonso caused. I think it is Flav that will have caused it, but the anger within the team will have been in part directed in the wrong place: as much towards the beneficiary of a misguided approach as to the cause of that misguided approach.

#4055 as65p

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:12

Kubica was signed before Genii even bought into the team, let alone before Boullier was appointed.


Oh, now thanks for bringing that to attention, if I looked it just up correctly Boullier was appointed only after last season?

So what the heck is he talking about a time when he was, according to this "in charge of looking after the careers of a number of young drivers including Ho-Pin Tung, Adrien Tambay, Jerome D'Ambrosio and Christian Vietoris", having nothing at all to do with Renault F1?

#4056 sosidge

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:13

But that is not the bit we are talking about. The bit we are talking about is:


Boullier is saying that 50% of the reasons for why they are doing better this year than last is something that he had nothing to do with.

The suggestion he is only saying that to make himself look good is odd because it achieves the opposite.


It isn't even clear that he is saying that about Alonso.

The description of arrogance and not pushing the team in the right direction could be the perfect description of Nelson Piquet Jr! It may also be lost in translation, I don't know whether Boullier was speaking in French or English originally, either way the article is not written in his native tongue.

And I think it was clear from the start of 2009 that Alonso had sealed a deal to move to Ferrari in the future.

Anyway, the whole line of argment from Yellow Helmet is completely irrelevant to the Alonso thread. To respond to a perceived slight against Alonso with a condemnation of the Renault teams performance in 2010 defies logic. Renault are doing a far better job in 2010 than expected, and if Boullier is truly unhappy with Alonso - that's his opinion and he is entitled to it! I'll wager he has spent more time with Alonso on a personal level than any of his internet supporters have.

#4057 Buttoneer

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:13

I thought one of the main criticisms of Alonso was that he was to committed? To demanding and powerful within a team. Now suddenly Renaults problem was Fernando was not committed?

By the way, I just read an article that Fernando "Mr. No Commitment" Alonso spent all day yesterday on the driver simulator trying to improve the car.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that Alonso is not committed this year, but I think there was every reason for him to be uncommitted last year, which is a shame for the team.

#4058 as65p

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:15

I don't agree that there was a chance he stayed at Renault. I think it was pretty obvious that Renault was a stepping stone for him, whilst he waited for a Ferrari seat to become available. I suspect he had an agreement with Ferrari prior to his final race contract (similar to Kimi) that meant he was very confident he would be a Ferrari driver long before it was finally announced. I also think that the staff at Renault will have known/suspected this.

Combine this with the staff knowing that the team was 100% centered around him, and I can see why this would be demotivating for them.

Building a team around a star driver and supporting him as your number 1 works well for a WDC bid, IMO. When you have produced a midfield car and you know that the star driver isn't going to be around for very much longer, I don't think it's an approach that works well.

It's a failure I would consider to be one of Renault's (mis)management, rather than of Alonso's. But I can see why resentment would have grown within the team and why Boullier would come to hear of this resentment. I don't think it is something that Alonso caused. I think it is Flav that will have caused it, but the anger within the team will have been in part directed in the wrong place: as much towards the beneficiary of a misguided approach as to the cause of that misguided approach.


A few quite reasonable theories in there, might all have been or not, who knows.

Certainly not a man that wasn't anywhere near Renault F1 in 2008 or 2009, that much is obvious now.

Might as well ask Stefano Dominecali about Carlos Reutemanns contribution to Ferrari in 1978.

Edited by as65p, 04 August 2010 - 14:20.


#4059 Massacrator

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:17

Well, commintment is based on your hopes and stuff.

If he had a car that was probably hard to develop in the season and he had already Ferrari in mind, I wouldn't blame him for not being commited as a fan (but I would as his boss paying him, of course -anyway Alonso brought sponsors and money, so he was pretty much paying his own money-)

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#4060 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:19

I don't agree that there was a chance he stayed at Renault. I think it was pretty obvious that Renault was a stepping stone for him, whilst he waited for a Ferrari seat to become available. I suspect he had an agreement with Ferrari prior to his final race contract (similar to Kimi) that meant he was very confident he would be a Ferrari driver long before it was finally announced. I also think that the staff at Renault will have known/suspected this.

Combine this with the staff knowing that the team was 100% centered around him, and I can see why this would be demotivating for them.

Building a team around a star driver and supporting him as your number 1 works well for a WDC bid, IMO. When you have produced a midfield car and you know that the star driver isn't going to be around for very much longer, I don't think it's an approach that works well.

It's a failure I would consider to be one of Renault's (mis)management, rather than of Alonso's. But I can see why resentment would have grown within the team and why Boullier would come to hear of this resentment. I don't think it is something that Alonso caused. I think it is Flav that will have caused it, but the anger within the team will have been in part directed in the wrong place: as much towards the beneficiary of a misguided approach as to the cause of that misguided approach.

when something doesnt works in a specific way (in formula1 it is about winning!), than sb must be guilty for that. the best way is to call the persons guilty who are not anymre around!
but the problem of the last years car was not down to flavio and not down to alonso, it was down to the constructors, who made a bad car. simple as it is.
but as they are still there, and somekind of realised what went wrong last year and so corrected their last years mistakes, they cant be blamed in the medias.
the easy way is to blame others, who are not more around there.

#4061 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:22

To respond to a perceived slight against Alonso with a condemnation of the Renault teams performance in 2010 defies logic.

what does that mean? can you explain it in other words (sorry my bad english!)

#4062 Watkins74

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:22

I don't think anyone here is arguing that Alonso is not committed this year, but I think there was every reason for him to be uncommitted last year, which is a shame for the team.

I think that would fair if you said that about the end of last season. The way he was desperately trying to determine his qualifying position at Hungary last year after the timing problem didn't project a man who was disengaged or uncommitted.

#4063 sosidge

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:27

what does that mean? can you explain it in other words (sorry my bad english!)


slight = insult.

#4064 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:27

A few quite reasonable theories in there, might all have been or not, who knows.

Certainly not a man that wasn't anywhere near Renault F1 in 2008 or 2009, that much is obvious now.

Might as well ask Stefano Dominecali about Carlos Reutemanns contribution to Ferrari in 1978.

I suspect what he is saying reflects what people within the team have been saying to him. So in that sense, I think it's a more useful source of information than Dominecali about Carlos Reutemanns contribution to Ferrari in 1978.

Having said that, as YellowHelmet says (having finally hit upon a logical argument in his scrabble round for any defence of Fernando) it would make sense for the people still within the team to be saying to Boullier "we weren't rubbish last year, it was those Alonso, Briatore and Symmonds chaps ... keep us on and you'll succeed". Also, given Boullier's likely limited budget and opportunity to make replacements, motivating those folks by buying in to that story also makes sense.

#4065 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:31

slight = insult.

thx, but it was not just about that one word. the way you expressed yourself, or the way you wrote that sentence, is hard for me to understand!

#4066 as65p

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:32

I suspect what he is saying reflects what people within the team have been saying to him. So in that sense, I think it's a more useful source of information than Dominecali about Carlos Reutemanns contribution to Ferrari in 1978.

Having said that, as YellowHelmet says (having finally hit upon a logical argument in his scrabble round for any defence of Fernando) it would make sense for the people still within the team to be saying to Boullier "we weren't rubbish last year, it was those Alonso, Briatore and Symmonds chaps ... keep us on and you'll succeed". Also, given Boullier's likely limited budget and opportunity to make replacements, motivating those folks by buying in to that story also makes sense.


Whatever, I'm out at this point. It's all speculation about a statement from someone who himself knows no more than you or me about the inner workings at Renault in recent years. Such isn't worth discussing in earnest, I think.

#4067 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:40

Having said that, as YellowHelmet says (having finally hit upon a logical argument in his scrabble round for any defence of Fernando)

:rotfl:
you are unfair.

but if you think about the other arguments, they are all correct, too.;)

Edited by YellowHelmet, 04 August 2010 - 14:40.


#4068 Buttoneer

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:40

I think that would fair if you said that about the end of last season. The way he was desperately trying to determine his qualifying position at Hungary last year after the timing problem didn't project a man who was disengaged or uncommitted.

I'm not passing judgement on him, only saying there was good reason for him to be uninterested but this is nevertheless sad for the team which was in a pretty desperate situation by the end of last year.

#4069 revmeister

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:41

I think it was unnecessary to slag Alonso and Briatorie, but it is certainly human nature to find a scapegoat in times of trouble, which is what Renault are extracting themselves from. Overall, I think it shows a lack of class on Boullier's part, but I guess he's just trying to pump up his team and drivers with his comments.

Kubica has been doing a very good job this year, and I think he has carried to the car. However, to suggest that Alonso didn't do the same for Renault over the years is unfair.

In the end it matters not. Renault would need to beat Ferrari and Alonso this year to fairly claim that Alonso was holding them back. A championship would boost their claim too, but that must lie in the future, because it won't be this year.

#4070 F1Johnny

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:47

Whatever, I'm out at this point. It's all speculation about a statement from someone who himself knows no more than you or me about the inner workings at Renault in recent years. Such isn't worth discussing in earnest, I think.


Are you saying that Boullier knows no more about the inner workings at Renault in 2008 and 2009 than you or me? If so, that's just rubbish. The man is running the team now and would be privy to information, views, opinions and facts that we would not be. Whether it happened in the recent past or not. Do you think he just came in and did not try to gather what happened in the past to assess why they ended up 8th last year and what happened in 2008?



#4071 as65p

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 14:58

Are you saying that Boullier knows no more about the inner workings at Renault in 2008 and 2009 than you or me? If so, that's just rubbish. The man is running the team now and would be privy to information, views, opinions and facts that we would not be. Whether it happened in the recent past or not. Do you think he just came in and did not try to gather what happened in the past to assess why they ended up 8th last year and what happened in 2008?


Well, I was talking of me and Gareth, dunno about you...  ;)

But seriously, by inserting "himself" into my sentence I meant to express all he knows now is, at best, 2nd hand information (sorry if that wasn't clear enough). Plus that information was feed to him largely by the people who survived the Singapore 2008 fallout, i.e. I expect quite a lot of people in lower ranks having left along with the prominent guys like Briatore and Symmonds, naturally those close to the culprits.

So all in all I consider everything he says about 2008 and 2009 of pretty low credibility, just as I ought take everything he says about 2010 seriously. Appears logical to me.

#4072 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 15:00

to assess why they ended up 8th last year and what happened in 2008?

the new rule implementation in 2009 brought some changes within the formula1 hirarchy (for at least 1 year!)

AND the constructors of Renault werent able to construct a car which was able to fight for the victories and than there were the problems with KERS.
too much for that people.
but now after one and a half year they have sorted some problems out and still they are off the pace.
so it was not down to the management or drivers it was down to the stuff! bouiller will have to use his second letter sooner or later!

#4073 F1Johnny

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 15:08

Well, I was talking of me and Gareth, dunno about you... ;)

But seriously, by inserting "himself" into my sentence I meant to express all he knows now is, at best, 2nd hand information (sorry if that wasn't clear enough). Plus that information was feed to him largely by the people who survived the Singapore 2008 fallout, i.e. I expect quite a lot of people in lower ranks having left along with the prominent guys like Briatore and Symmonds, naturally those close to the culprits.

So all in all I consider everything he says about 2008 and 2009 of pretty low credibility, just as I ought take everything he says about 2010 seriously. Appears logical to me.


Well maybe you and Gareth have the same knowledge about the 2008 and 2009 season as Boullier. I am certain that I don't.

How many people were involved in the Singapore incident? Was there a mass exodus due to that incident or was it cost driven? I imagine also that given that Briatore had to report to the board he would have seen the minutes from those meetings, seen minutes from driver/team meetings.

IMO he would have a pretty good idea of what went on in the team in the 2 years prior to his becoming involved. His due diligence would reveal a lot.

#4074 as65p

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 15:13

Well maybe you and Gareth have the same knowledge about the 2008 and 2009 season as Boullier. I am certain that I don't.

How many people were involved in the Singapore incident? Was there a mass exodus due to that incident or was it cost driven? I imagine also that given that Briatore had to report to the board he would have seen the minutes from those meetings, seen minutes from driver/team meetings.

IMO he would have a pretty good idea of what went on in the team in the 2 years prior to his becoming involved. His due diligence would reveal a lot.


<shrug> Your choice what value to assign to someone who is giving his opinion based on 2nd info, not having been anywhere near the action. Just as it's my choice to not think it worthy of extended discussion.

So please, accept it for this, the 2nd time: I'm out. :wave:

#4075 AlanWake

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 15:19

Fernando won 2 WDC and 2 WCC for Renault and is by far the most successful Renault driver ever while Kubica hasn't won any race with them yet.
The R30 is a very good car, even Petrov can shine at times with that car and I consider Piquet and Grosjean more talented than him IMO.



#4076 TURU

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 15:26

Fernando won 2 WDC and 2 WCC for Renault and is by far the most successful Renault driver ever while Kubica hasn't won any race with them yet.
The R30 is a very good car, even Petrov can shine at times with that car and I consider Piquet and Grosjean more talented than him IMO.


Alonso drove for them for several years while Kubica for half a season, so you can't compared them, yet.
I have no idea how can you say that Piquet is more talented than Petrov. I can see only one reason for that - You want Alonso to look better :wave:

I have no reason not to believe Boullier, but I can understand Alonso's behaviour however not pleasant it was for the team.

#4077 undersquare

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 15:35

Well IMO we find out so little of what goes on inside teams we have to take account of these little snippets when they come out.

"not easy to work with" and "very arrogant" are not things a TP would say simply to big up his own importance or Kubica's I would think.

And obviously he does know exactly what Fernando's reputation was in the team last year.

It meshes with James Alen's comment that at McLaren Alonso would 'barely give his mechanics the time of day'. And with the instinct we saw he had this year to immediately walk away from the car he was in when Monty stranded it in the gravel, leaving Monty and Felipe to it :lol: .

He's someone who just doesn't do loyalty or team building.

#4078 YellowHelmet

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 15:38

He's someone who just doesn't do loyalty or team building.

at least you have to know :drunk:


#4079 Henrik B

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 15:40

Fernando won 2 WDC and 2 WCC for Renault and is by far the most successful Renault driver ever while Kubica hasn't won any race with them yet.
The R30 is a very good car, even Petrov can shine at times with that car and I consider Piquet and Grosjean more talented than him IMO.


I've always had a feeling that the Alonso that returned to Renault after McLaren wasn't quite the same Alonso. Furthermore, it wasn't quite the same Renault either. After the successful years, I think someone like Flavio can become pretty disinterested when the limelight isn't on him anymore. I guess Alonso and upper management pretty quick saw that this team won't win any WDC:s in a hurry. I guess Alonso pretty quickly started to hunt for that Ferrari seat. Remember, he left Renault to go to a bigger team and after the joint failure at McLaren, going back to Renault must've felt pretty bad.

And, Alonso doing his best in the races don't factor in this discussion. It's the working environment and commitment within the team, and I assume the Renault staff noticed a marked difference in his attitude - given that the stories of his wonderful character from the WDC years are true. He could be pretty whine-y even when things were going well.

Renault ARE doing better than expected this year. Boullier is explaining success, not excusing failure.


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#4080 AlanWake

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 15:52

Alonso drove for them for several years while Kubica for half a season, so you can't compared them, yet.
I have no idea how can you say that Piquet is more talented than Petrov. I can see only one reason for that - You want Alonso to look better :wave:

I have no reason not to believe Boullier, but I can understand Alonso's behaviour however not pleasant it was for the team.


Well, Kubica has already driven for Renault in 12 races. If you compare these 12 races with Alonso's first year in Renault (2003), you'll see that Alonso had already won a race and got 2 pole positions. IMO, Alonso in 2003 was much more impressive than Kubica is being this year because Alonso was a semi-rookie in that moment who was beating his more experienced teammate and unlike Kubica he was not the clear number 1.

And yes, Piquet is more talented than Petrov IMHO. After all, he was the driver who gave Lewis a run for his money in GP2.


#4081 AlanWake

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 16:02

Well IMO we find out so little of what goes on inside teams we have to take account of these little snippets when they come out.

"not easy to work with" and "very arrogant" are not things a TP would say simply to big up his own importance or Kubica's I would think.

And obviously he does know exactly what Fernando's reputation was in the team last year.

It meshes with James Alen's comment that at McLaren Alonso would 'barely give his mechanics the time of day'. And with the instinct we saw he had this year to immediately walk away from the car he was in when Monty stranded it in the gravel, leaving Monty and Felipe to it :lol: .

He's someone who just doesn't do loyalty or team building.



I really doubt Boullier said such words about Alonso. I believe he was referring to Piquet: the man who betrayed them.

Edited by AlanWake, 04 August 2010 - 16:03.


#4082 Flamini

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 16:02

And yes, Piquet is more talented than Petrov IMHO. After all, he was the driver who gave Lewis a run for his money in GP2.


Yes, based on GP2 i think it's quite clear that Piquet is better than Petrov. And i don't understand those who see it otherwise. But I noticed a lot of people think that Petrov is better than Piquet. So i wonder why they think that...

#4083 AlanWake

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 16:20

Yes, based on GP2 i think it's quite clear that Piquet is better than Petrov. And i don't understand those who see it otherwise. But I noticed a lot of people think that Petrov is better than Piquet. So i wonder why they think that...


I watched GP2 in 2006, and he was the driver who impressed me the most after Hamilton :blush:

Edited by AlanWake, 04 August 2010 - 16:21.


#4084 F.M.

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 16:25

I really doubt Boullier said such words about Alonso. I believe he was referring to Piquet: the man who betrayed them.

He was talking about Alonso. This part precedes those comments: Alonso back at Renault after the McLaren situation, and being signed for Ferrari... a driver is a key asset for the team and if the driver is not motivated, not pushing the team enough... because he knew he was moving on

#4085 undersquare

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 16:26

I really doubt Boullier said such words about Alonso. I believe he was referring to Piquet: the man who betrayed them.


Well it sounded to me like he was talking about both of them. And Alonso would have been the one who mattered for the team's performance, which was really his point.

Though like you maybe I'm quite surprised he said it. Boullier showing he's a bit inexperienced.

#4086 AlanWake

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 16:37

He was talking about Alonso. This part precedes those comments: Alonso back at Renault after the McLaren situation, and being signed for Ferrari... a driver is a key asset for the team and if the driver is not motivated, not pushing the team enough... because he knew he was moving on


I was referring to this comment from Boullier:

"and drivers which were not easy to work with, very arrogant and not pushing the team in the right way"



#4087 Gareth

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 17:40

I was referring to this comment from Boullier:

"and drivers which were not easy to work with, very arrogant and not pushing the team in the right way"

There's a plural there ...

#4088 Dunder

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 17:42

There's a plural there ...


So Piquet and Grosjean, obviously  ;)


#4089 cardin

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 17:49

So Piquet and Grosjean, obviously ;)

Nah, it was just a typo.

#4090 cardin

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 17:52

I thought one of the main criticisms of Alonso was that he was to committed? To demanding and powerful within a team. Now suddenly Renaults problem was Fernando was not committed?

By the way, I just read an article that Fernando "Mr. No Commitment" Alonso spent all day yesterday on the driver simulator trying to improve the car.

Isn't it wonderfull that the minute Alonso steps inside Ferrari we have thousands of blog entries, newspaper article, pictures, footage and posts on this thread about it ?

Edited by cardin, 04 August 2010 - 17:53.


#4091 Anssi

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 17:56

I'm not passing judgement on him, only saying there was good reason for him to be uninterested but this is nevertheless sad for the team which was in a pretty desperate situation by the end of last year.



Alonso has said that he offered himself to Ferrari in 2007. This is from an article by Turun Sanomat in which there were excerpts of an article from an Italian newspaper in which Alonso had directly been interviewed.

He was then left waiting whether Felipe or Kimi will leave the team - like a dog waiting for some food to drop from the kitchen table to the floor. Not quite the image of a Great Champion in my humble opinion. His focus was to get that Ferrari seat and it is certainly plausible from Renault's point of view that he may not have been committed to the team in a way he should have been.

#4092 the9th

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 18:00

When the car is good, everyone's a little bit more cheery. Fact.
This year's car is an evolution from last year's and the product of Alonso's engineering prowess. Nando was the first to indicate Kubica as a natural sub. In fact he hired the Pole. All in all, Bouiller, still a nobody in F1 circles, should be thankful and shut up!
:)

#4093 toxicfusion

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 18:07

In 2006 he knew he was going to McLaren for the following season, no one was questioning his commitment then. According to Ferrari and Fernando the deal to brining him there wasn't even for this year but for 2011, it was only confirmed towards the end of last season. Which would suggest that the only time he may have had his mind elsewhere was Japan onwards.

Renault admitted that last year the results of the wind tunnel were not matching what happened on track. After all they believed the R29 was going to be successful based on the wind tunnel results but in reality the car was rubbish. Yet Fernando managed to score 13 points by Germany which was more than Raikkonen, Hamilton and Kubica were able to do in their respective cars at the same point.

I have no idea where the idea that Alonso didn't give his mechanics at McLaren the time of day, its not something I have ever heard before. He requested to visit the McLaren technology centre at the end of 2006 to meet the engineers, he wanted to get to know them. Now at Ferrari he is spending a lot of time at Maranello with the engineers to do what he can to help Ferrari.

#4094 TURU

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 19:11

Well, Kubica has already driven for Renault in 12 races. If you compare these 12 races with Alonso's first year in Renault (2003), you'll see that Alonso had already won a race and got 2 pole positions. IMO, Alonso in 2003 was much more impressive than Kubica is being this year because Alonso was a semi-rookie in that moment who was beating his more experienced teammate and unlike Kubica he was not the clear number 1.

And yes, Piquet is more talented than Petrov IMHO. After all, he was the driver who gave Lewis a run for his money in GP2.


You can't compare 2003 with 2010; different cars, different field. Now we have 3 teams at the front and Renault (plus Mercedes) hunting them down. In 2003 the field was less competitive and Renault was stronger relative to their rivals.

#4095 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 19:24

I think its crazy to say Alonso wasn't motivated at Renault in '08, his end to the season was brilliant and he clearly worked hard all year to try and get the car to that level. I think he started the 2009 season fully motivated but I did notice myself that his motivation seemed to have dropped by the last couple of races, who could blame him? His stunning drive at Singapore '09 where it looked like he was going to hit the barriers every other corner was not lacking in motivation and what about the race his water bottle failed? I also think it's worth noting that Alonso still seems to be on very good terms with the Renault mechanics.

#4096 zawisza

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 20:06

When the car is good, everyone's a little bit more cheery. Fact.
This year's car is an evolution from last year's and the product of Alonso's engineering prowess. Nando was the first to indicate Kubica as a natural sub. In fact he hired the Pole. All in all, Bouiller, still a nobody in F1 circles, should be thankful and shut up!
:)


:rotfl:
Even if Boullier is wrong there is no reason you talk such BS for. Nando and Robert both are good at giving feedback but no driver is responsible for car development. Is Kubica more motivated than Alonso? I don;t know. Maybe he's hungrier...as much as Alonso was before he got 2 WDC titles. They are not teammates - it's pointless to compare them. Alonso's and Kubica's fans should respect the fact they are friends.

#4097 JSDSKI

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 21:24

@ ToxicFusion: great post...

Too many are ignoring the ongoing problems Renault had correlating wind tunnel and track data. Four or five years worth of screwed up development. Lost momentum starting in the 2007 season, blaming it on "concentrating on the 06 WDC and WCC", while it was engineering all along. Much easier to blame staff that is no longer in place.

But, I'm happy for Kubica and Renault. They don't need to blast people. Just race and let the points talk.

#4098 Mauseri

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 21:55

Fernando won 2 WDC and 2 WCC for Renault and is by far the most successful Renault driver ever while Kubica hasn't won any race with them yet.
The R30 is a very good car, even Petrov can shine at times with that car and I consider Piquet and Grosjean more talented than him IMO.

:rotfl: If you are a fan, you could at least try be little less obviously so. Why do people always stuck in the defensive gear...

#4099 HPT

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 05:31

I don't understand why anyone would question Alonso's motivation. He looked motivated and fought for every position as hard as he did for a win everytime he was in the car. As it was revealed, his original contract to go to Ferrari was in 2011, so he was expecting to drive a Renault this year. Why wouldn't he push the team to build a better car? I've only heard how demanding he is, but never questions about his motivation.

By the way, I don't think Boullier said anything that is out of line. He was inaccurate about the motivation bit, but the rest is pretty spot on, I'd say.

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#4100 Claudius

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:46

Are you saying that Boullier knows no more about the inner workings at Renault in 2008 and 2009 than you or me? If so, that's just rubbish. The man is running the team now and would be privy to information, views, opinions and facts that we would not be. Whether it happened in the recent past or not. Do you think he just came in and did not try to gather what happened in the past to assess why they ended up 8th last year and what happened in 2008?


:up:
Some make it sound like Boullier is just some random guy from the street who was given the reigns of the Renault team and he has no clue whatsoever what was going on in the team last year.
Just because Boullier dared criticize a driver (Alonso) and praised another (Kubica).

Hell hath no fury like a fan scorned!