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Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


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#4251 as65p

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 08:55

How did those sector times compare to Massa's?


Dunno exactly, I'm talking from (sloppy?) memory. No way to verify, obviously the times disappeared from live timing as he entered the pits, I just recall thinking that this could be a good lap that would move him up front, probably to around 4th to 6th where the car seems to belong.

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#4252 K-One

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 08:58

Dunno exactly, I'm talking from (sloppy?) memory. No way to verify, obviously the times disappeared from live timing as he entered the pits, I just recall thinking that this could be a good lap that would move him up front, probably to around 4th to 6th where the car seems to belong.


if he was heading in, then he was probably out of fuel, so cannot compare times from in-lap

#4253 as65p

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 10:03

if he was heading in, then he was probably out of fuel, so cannot compare times from in-lap


Maybe. It wasn't meant as an excuse, just an observation.

#4254 P123

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 10:18

If Alonso has gone for a full wet setup then he needs constant wet weather for the entire race, assuming qualifying is representative of his dry weather pace. Otherwise he isn't going to go very far from his grid position.

#4255 Panktej

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 10:30

If Alonso has gone for a full wet setup then he needs constant wet weather for the entire race, assuming qualifying is representative of his dry weather pace. Otherwise he isn't going to go very far from his grid position.


Yeah, but even if they start in wet conditions, it will help him to overtake few cars on the straights...

#4256 Ferrari2183

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 10:34

If Alonso has gone for a full wet setup then he needs constant wet weather for the entire race, assuming qualifying is representative of his dry weather pace. Otherwise he isn't going to go very far from his grid position.

And that is is why this wet setup makes no sense. He just didn't hit the sweet spot with his setup and cocked up his laps. Simple... He is going to have tough race.

#4257 kosmos

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 10:40

The only way this strategy will work is if the race start with rain and the rain last for a lot of laps, asuming he can take the first position and achieve a big gap with the second. Is a crazy strategy for the wrong driver, you can't gamble this hard with the only Ferrari driver that have chaces to win the WDC.



#4258 Atreiu

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:44

Two steps forward, one step back.

#4259 King Six

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:52

Bad weekend. Rubens ruined his race but he messed up his qualy anyway. Then he goes and smashes the car up at the end. Also under investigation for unsafe pit release but doubt it'll change anything anyway as he's already retired.

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#4260 Skinnyguy

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:57

In races like today´s is where Alonso is losing the chance to challenge for the title. When Mclaren isn´t good enough for a win, Lewis and Jenson consistently drive for 5th, 6th... and take the points home. Alonso isn´t doing that this year.

#4261 Galko877

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 13:59

One of Alonso's strengths has always been his consistency in the past. But he doesn't really have that this year. I always thought driving for Ferrari might be a little more pressure than driving for other teams. Maybe even someone like Alonso feels that.

Edited by Galko877, 29 August 2010 - 13:59.


#4262 VicR

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:02

If Alonso has gone for a full wet setup then he needs constant wet weather for the entire race, assuming qualifying is representative of his dry weather pace. Otherwise he isn't going to go very far from his grid position.


Right! :lol:

#4263 F.M.

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:06

Alonso did a Raikkonen 2008 today (throwing his championship chances away). With the difference that Raikkonen was on the dry tyres, fighting with an other driver, fighting for the win and saved it a couple times before.

Next year Ferrari + KERS = not good enough -> Alonso out of Ferrari after 2011 in favour of Vettel/Hamilton?

#4264 kosmos

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:08

In races like today´s is where Alonso is losing the chance to challenge for the title. When Mclaren isn´t good enough for a win, Lewis and Jenson consistently drive for 5th, 6th... and take the points home. Alonso isn´t doing that this year.



Right on the spot. Alonso don't have the luck of the champion this year, plus his own mistakes.

He need 3 or 4 wins or the chances are over, and right now, this is not reallistic.

#4265 Skinnyguy

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:09

Alonso did a Raikkonen 2008 today (throwing his championship chances away). With the difference that Raikkonen was on the dry tyres, fighting with an other driver, fighting for the win and saved it a couple times before.

Next year Ferrari + KERS = not good enough -> Alonso out of Ferrari after 2011 in favour of Vettel/Hamilton?


Wait a little more mate. Still 5 contenders for me.

#4266 cardin

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:14

Wait a little more mate. Still 5 contenders for me.


You are quite right. He still has about 40% probability of winning it all.

#4267 cardin

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:17

I think those who are hoping that Alonso has a wet setup is probably going to end up disappointed. I haven't seen or read anything that has suggested he has gone for a wet setup. I mean, I'm actually hoping that he really does have a wet setup, but the reality is he probably doesn't.

Edit to say - according to a forumer on PF-1, Gene said on La Sexta that Alonso has indeed gone for a wet setup. So here's praying for rain!

Words of wisdon. The guy spun by itself when the rain was heavier when his full wet setup would most effective. BTW, Gene is full of crap.

#4268 Trust

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:17

Wait a little more mate. Still 5 contenders for me.

For me it's now 3-horse-race. It's between Hamilton, Webber and Vettel. See you, at the end of the year.

#4269 Watkins74

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:21

A long time Alonso fan, but this year he has been terrible. How many mistakes can he make? His quota of mistakes ran out long ago. I guess someone will call me a hater, but c'mon, he is supposed to be an elite driver. He and Ferrari have looked like the Keystone cops this year.

Good lord, he has been frustrating this year.

Edited by Watkins74, 29 August 2010 - 14:28.


#4270 jjcale

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:27

You are quite right. He still has about 40% probability of winning it all.


Surely you mean 40% of a 1 in 5 (20%) chance.... being 8%.

#4271 Massa_f1

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:28

A long time Alonso fan, but this year he has been terrible. How many mistakes can he make? His quota of mistakes ran out long ago. I guess someone will call me a hater, but c'mon, he is supposed to be an elite driver. He and Ferrari have looked like the Keystone cops this year.

Good lord, he has been frustrating this year.



Very honest Alonso fan :up:

#4272 teejay

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:30

The irony of all of this is that everyone defending his poor quali saying the wetup would spring him to the front came to nothing when he crashed at the wettest part of the race.

He must be feeling the pressure.

#4273 jjcale

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:31

A long time Alonso fan, but this year he has been terrible. How many mistakes can he make? His quota of mistakes ran out long ago. I guess someone will call me a hater, but c'mon, he is supposed to be an elite driver. He and Ferrari have looked like the Keystone cops this year.

Good lord, he has been frustating this year.


There is big pressure on him... like in 2007 when he also made a hatful of mistakes.

They should take some pressure off him by scaling back his responsibilities... no more decisions about strategy and analysis of races from in the car... his only job should be to just drive without errors ...and let others worry about everything esle.

#4274 Seanspeed

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:31

Alonso did a Raikkonen 2008 today (throwing his championship chances away). With the difference that Raikkonen was on the dry tyres, fighting with an other driver, fighting for the win and saved it a couple times before.

Next year Ferrari + KERS = not good enough -> Alonso out of Ferrari after 2011 in favour of Vettel/Hamilton?

:lol:

Alonso has still proven to be a very fast competitor. I dont expect him to constantly keep making mistakes like this year.

He's definitely good for Ferrari and you'd be hard pressed to replace him with somebody better. Vettel would be great at Ferrari, I think, but its not like he hasn't been mistake prone either. And Lewis isn't gonna come to Ferrari.

People overreact after races, as always. Look over the season and you'll see that he's definitely a good thing for the team, as he's been destroying his teammate even with all the mistakes he makes. Had Kimi done this, he'd have been WAY back in the points, cuz he never had the pace advantage to compensate for it.

#4275 Kovalonso

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:35

Alonso is making a lot of controversial statements lately.
> Saying before Spa that he had 50% chances to be WDC. Are you thinking about a binomial YES or NO.
> And that 10th place in the grid was meaningless bcs from all tracks in the championship that's the easiest to overtake.

:drunk:

#4276 HappySachs

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 14:55

Alonso was very unlucky to get hit today, it looked like he was in a minority of judging his breaking point correctly, amazing that the car survived the impact from Rubens car. Putting it in the wall must surely count as another mistake though, in a season where the driver is proving to be an especially important ingredient these mistakes may prove decisive.

My biggest disappointment is to see such an exceptional driver performing below the level I believe he's capable of, at least there's still time to make amends before the end of the season.

#4277 Sammyosammy

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:04

We'll see what happens tomorrow if rains, he's the only one of them with wet setup.


:wave:

#4278 ZooL

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:31

I dont know what people are talking about.

Kimi got better results - he collected the most WDC points in the 2nd half of the season despite Ferrari giving up development on the car.

Kimi also made nowhere near as many mistakes as Alonso has this year. It's Alonso's honeymoon year so maybe he will get away with it (Kimi gave WDC in his honeymoon year). But already the Italian papers are saying Alonso is not delivering.

#4279 Hole

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:34

Alonso is making a lot of controversial statements lately.
> Saying before Spa that he had 50% chances to be WDC. Are you thinking about a binomial YES or NO.
> And that 10th place in the grid was meaningless bcs from all tracks in the championship that's the easiest to overtake.

:drunk:


He didn't say that qualifying was meaningless. I don't understand why you guys have to lie so miserably and twist what he says in Spanish. That's very ugly.

Edited by AdamKOR, 29 August 2010 - 15:35.


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#4280 mkay

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:36

There is big pressure on him... like in 2007 when he also made a hatful of mistakes.

They should take some pressure off him by scaling back his responsibilities... no more decisions about strategy and analysis of races from in the car... his only job should be to just drive without errors ...and let others worry about everything esle.


If he lets the "others" run it, the team goes nowhere. Ferrari has been a huge mess in terms of execution this year and Massa has been remarkably average. Alonso probably feels the need to carry the team, hence the mistakes.

#4281 AlainProstX

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:37

I don`t get the upbeat here.

Alonso`s race was destroyed in lap 1 by Rubens Barrichello. Do you really believe that his car hasn`t taken any damage after that collision?

And further, he had to take the risk of using intermediates. It could have paid out. But it didn`t. Plus, I don`t believe that he has taken the decision of switching into wet tires.

Also he still managed to get to 8th position before he crashed in a damaged car.


To much fanboyism here. Some people forget that he is still ahead of Massa in the WDC standings and also beat this guy in almost every qualy session.

#4282 Anssi

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:37

A long time Alonso fan, but this year he has been terrible. How many mistakes can he make? His quota of mistakes ran out long ago. I guess someone will call me a hater, but c'mon, he is supposed to be an elite driver. He and Ferrari have looked like the Keystone cops this year.

Good lord, he has been frustrating this year.




Did you destroy your television?

#4283 bond

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:38

I don`t get the upbeat here.

Alonso`s race was destroyed in lap 1 by Rubens Barrichello. Do you really believe that his car hasn`t taken any damage after that collision?


Do you think he would risk is life doing +300kph with a damaged car?

#4284 Verderer

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:43

I don`t get the upbeat here.

Alonso`s race was destroyed in lap 1 by Rubens Barrichello. Do you really believe that his car hasn`t taken any damage after that collision?

And further, he had to take the risk of using intermediates. It could have paid out. But it didn`t. Plus, I don`t believe that he has taken the decision of switching into wet tires.

Also he still managed to get to 8th position before he crashed in a damaged car.


To much fanboyism here. Some people forget that he is still ahead of Massa in the WDC standings and also beat this guy in almost every qualy session.


I think some people on this forum really need to figure out what 'fanboysim' means? I'd like to point out that critizing your favourite driver isn't fanboysim, quite the contrary. If you can't take this criticism when it is warranted, it is YOU who is the fanboy. And that is your problem. The plain fact is Alonso made a bad error, and destroyed his race with his shunt off-track. I guess nobody is blaming him for Barrichello crashing into him, just like nobody is blaming Button for Vettel mowing him off track. But Alonso made a lot of errors, both in the race and in the qualy. And so did his team, if that's any consolation?

Edited by Verderer, 29 August 2010 - 15:45.


#4285 Anssi

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:49

Kimi -snip- he collected the most WDC points in the 2nd half of the season despite Ferrari giving up development on the car.


I don't think that's right. I recall Lewis Hamilton got the most points in the 2nd half of last season whilst Kimi was 2nd in that respect.

Certainly it was impressive stuff from Kimi but that was a result of him getting the car set-up the way he wanted it (that's what Kimi said). Curiously enough he got the set-up right after Massa was out of the picture. It was almost as if Massa was a priority to the team and only when he was out then Kimi was let to have his way with the car and then superb performances kept coming. I think it's a fair question that why didn't they let him have his way with the car earlier. I think they weren't being smart with how they managed that situation.

Alonso is capable of similar results but he doesn't have the cool-headed approach that Kimi has. Many people seem to think Alonso is very formidable on the mental side but I think he is in fact quite a fragile person mentally. I've just seen him "flip" way too many times. It's what gets him the attention of the team but it also hurts him. There are advantages and disadvantages to both personalities. Kimi can lose in a political team because he assumes the team supports him (he assumes a professional employer and employee relationship in which people can be trusted) and if they are not doing that then he is in trouble. Alonso will make a fuss much earlier but then that quality will make him lose his calmness in the races earlier too.

Edited by Anssi, 29 August 2010 - 15:52.


#4286 keeppushingurep1

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:50

I like alonso and ferrari, but i think this year he is too hungry and he wants to deliver so bad, that is becoming anxious and makes mistakes

#4287 AlainProstX

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:51

I think some people on this forum really need to figure out what 'fanboysim' means? I'd like to point out that critizing your favourite driver isn't fanboysim, quite the contrary. If you can't take this criticism when it is warranted, it is YOU who is the fanboy. And that is your problem. The plain fact is Alonso made a bad error, and destroyed his race with his shunt off-track. I guess nobody is balming him for Barrichello crashing him, just like nobody is blaming Button for Vettel mowing him off track. But Alonso made a lot of errors, both in the race and in the qualy. And so did his team, if that's any consolation?



I call most of the posts in the last 2 pages fanboyism and trolling.

He made a error during hard condidtions... Ok... But he wasn`t the only one.

Its funny that people take a crash in such conditions as a indicator for Alonsos bad performances over this season (This was the first time this season that he crashed himself out in the race!).

In germany, I would call something like this "Aktionismus".

His race was destroyed in lap 1, he had to take the risk of putting on inters after the crash - it didn`t pay out and he was on P20 after his 2nd pit stop.

He still managed to reach P8 before his race.



Just imagine the situation of Hamilton not being able to get his car back into the track during the 2nd rain period... You would need to lock all Lewis Hamilton threads in this forum because of the troll wars following this.

Nobody is mentioning here that the races of Hamilton, Webber, Kubica, Massa and Sutil weren`t ruined at Lap 1, eventhough all of them made a error in that last corner, whereas Alonso managed to get his braking point - just to be taken out by Rubens Barrichello.


Sometimes you have luck, sometimes you haven`t.

#4288 mkay

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:56

I don't think that's right. I recall Lewis Hamilton got the most points in the 2nd half of last season whilst Kimi was 2nd in that respect.

Certainly it was impressive stuff from Kimi but that was a result of him getting the car set-up the way he wanted it (that's what Kimi said). Curiously enough he got the set-up right after Massa was out of the picture. It was almost as if Massa was a priority to the team and only when he was out then Kimi was let to have his way with the car and then superb performances kept coming. I think it's a fair question that why didn't they let him have his way with the car earlier. I think they weren't being smart with how they managed that situation.

Alonso is capable of similar results but he doesn't have the cool-headed approach that Kimi has. Many people seem to think Alonso is very formidable on the mental side but I think he is in fact quite a fragile person mentally. I've just seen him "flip" way too many times. It's what gets him the attention of the team but it also hurts him. There are advantages and disadvantages to both personalities. Kimi can lose in a political team because he assumes the team supports him (he assumes a professional employer and employee relationship in which people can be trusted) and if they are not doing that then he is in trouble. Alonso will make a fuss much earlier but then that quality will make him lose his calmness in the races earlier too.


I agree 110% that Kimi drove superbly at the end of 2009. However, you have to take into account that he had no pressure whatsoever. His teammate was out for the season and they had no chance at the WDC/WCC. He basically had carte blanche.

On the other hand, Alonso and Ferrari are in the hunt for BOTH titles and they don't possess - at the moment - any car "advantage", which puts a lot of pressure since every single race counts. Furthermore, the fact that his teammate is very average and does not seem to be helping much in taking points off the competitors adds to the pressure.

I am not a big fan on Alonso but I understand his situation.

#4289 cardin

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 15:59

Surely you mean 40% of a 1 in 5 (20%) chance.... being 8%.


No, I meant a 40% overrall chance. I subscribe to Alonso's new school of math 'thinking'.

#4290 cardin

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:00

There is big pressure on him... like in 2007 when he also made a hatful of mistakes.

They should take some pressure off him by scaling back his responsibilities... no more decisions about strategy and analysis of races from in the car... his only job should be to just drive without errors ...and let others worry about everything esle.

I've heard more than once this year his race engineer asking him to calm down and concentrate on the race.

#4291 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:01

Do you think he would risk is life doing +300kph with a damaged car?


Isn't the question " Do you think Santander would risk his life doing +300kph in a damaged car?" They wouldn't of course. Therefore the car was sound. :up:

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 29 August 2010 - 16:03.


#4292 cardin

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:04

you got that one wrong buddy. Seanspeed was a huge Kimi fan, he never really liked alonso pushing Kimi out but can appreciate (with him being a ferrari fan first) that Fernando is getting better results and is showing more speed compared to massa than Kimi ever did.

He's not getting better results and he'd better start to pray Massa has the same trouble heating tires next year.

#4293 trogggy

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:12

Do you think he would risk is life doing +300kph with a damaged car?

You think he wouldn't?

#4294 bond

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:14

You think he wouldn't?


I think he has some brains left...

#4295 Flamini

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:31

He's not getting better results and he'd better start to pray Massa has the same trouble heating tires next year.


Massa had problems with tyres only in 4 or 5 races this season. He said it himself.

#4296 trogggy

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:47

I think he has some brains left...

When was the last time a driver stopped because he thought there might be some damage and he didn't want to risk it? :well:

#4297 bond

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:48

When was the last time a driver stopped because he thought there might be some damage and he didn't want to risk it? :well:


Lewis in Abu Dhabi, comes to my mind....

#4298 trogggy

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:50

Lewis in Abu Dhabi, comes to my mind....

His brakes weren't working. Hardly the same thing.

#4299 bond

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:52

His brakes weren't working. Hardly the same thing.


His brakes WERE working, mclaren took the decision to end it or he would lost it...

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#4300 trogggy

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 16:54

His brakes WERE working, mclaren took the decision to end it or he would lost it...

I was struggling to stop the car. The right rear brake wasn't working and it was too dangerous to continue.


Righto.