Jump to content


Photo

Fernando Alonso thread [merged]


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
14493 replies to this topic

#4351 Biggles Flies Undone

Biggles Flies Undone
  • Member

  • 383 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 31 August 2010 - 00:10

But from where I was watching, most of the "errors" were from drivers tip-toeing round on slicks in the wet, whereas Alonso was on inters and still managed to stick it into the wall on his own. That fact alone doesn't suggest good driving.


He was also running a wet set up. Alonso's high down force wing.

http://www.jamesalle...alo-r-wing-spa/

Massa's

http://www.jamesalle...ssa-r-wing-spa/


Advertisement

#4352 K-One

K-One
  • Member

  • 5,917 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 31 August 2010 - 10:10

lol Tifosos already call Alonso " Fernando Santander" and one journalist El Banco

#4353 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 31 August 2010 - 10:20

lol Tifosos already call Alonso " Fernando Santander" and one journalist El Banco

First the F10 thread and now this one... Are you here to stir sh*t?

#4354 Desdirodeabike

Desdirodeabike
  • Member

  • 1,898 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 31 August 2010 - 11:47

First the F10 thread and now this one... Are you here to stir sh*t?

I for one think its interesting to see how the public opinon is shifting in this case.

#4355 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:01

I for one think its interesting to see how the public opinon is shifting in this case.

And watch it shift again when he wins another GP...

#4356 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,823 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:10

if ham would have lost it at that pont just 3 inches more and alo 3 inches less, now alo would be a hero and ham crazy for risking when he s p1

we all f1 fans overreact on mondays



I think there is a BIG difference in a driver running wide when it starts to rain quite heavily on slicks and a driver who is on the right tyre for rain and also having opted for a 'wet set-up' for just such an eventuality losing it after going over the white lines. However, I don't think people can be too critical of FA though as it was clearly very difficult conditions to drive in and he was trying desperately hard to make up positions. he was probably quite fired up in that cockpit having been found to have picked the wrong set-up and also having been t-boned by Barrichello early in the race. It does seem like a bit of a gamble to go for the wet set up though and it is a strange decision for him to have made. For me, Alonso is one of the top two drivers on the grid - the other being his team mate from 2007. I honestly don't think there's a lot to pick between them talent wise, I do however think that Hamilton has his head screwed on slightly better than FA at the moment. This may change, we've seen Hamilton 'over drive' in the past and get it wrong but right now it is Alonso who seems to be making mistakes. I imagine the level of expectation was huge when he joined Ferrari and he's desperate to deliver - perhaps he's trying too hard at the moment. I also wonder if the WMSC meeting is playing on his mind - I'd say there's a 50/50 chance of him losing his points from that race which could explain why he felt the need to go for the gamble with the wet set up. On pure pace, Mclaren and Red bull had the ferrari covered this weekend. Knowing he had to score big points, Fernando took a different direction to everyone else that didn't quite pay off. I think september 8th is going to be crucial for the championship. Both in the sense that Alonso could be put out of the race but also because it will effect how the other teams use their drivers in the remaining events. If the WMSC comes down hard on Alonso then I doubt teams will be too quick to use team orders in the remaining races.

#4357 cardin

cardin
  • Member

  • 2,065 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:44

lol Tifosos already call Alonso " Fernando Santander" and one journalist El Banco

Funny.

#4358 tarmac

tarmac
  • Member

  • 1,155 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:54

Alonso getting trashed in Italian media..

Got to love it

#4359 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:55

Exactly. I think people are overanalyzing or overreacting, as usual after one eventful race. All the other WDC contenders had similar mistakes yesterday, all of them missed a braking zone or lost their cars at some point or other and all of them came *this* close to having their race ended. As a matter or fact, 3 of them were unlucky and were out before the end (I consider Vettel was out of the race after hitting Button), 2 of them were equally lucky and didn't.

It was not a good race for Alonso, far from it, but I continue to be amazed by the histrionics in this forum every time some driver or the other makes a mistake (the dogpiling in the Seb thread is no less revealing). It takes the "you are only as good as your last race" truism to new heights.

Lewis was on slicks on a wet track, Alonso was on wets with a supposed wet setup, big difference

Advertisement

#4360 K-One

K-One
  • Member

  • 5,917 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 31 August 2010 - 12:57

Alonso getting trashed in Italian media..

Got to love it


wait until Spanish media runs to save their boy --- > fireworks

#4361 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,789 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:04

Lewis was on slicks on a wet track, Alonso was on wets with a supposed wet setup, big difference


There were other drivers on slicks that lap, going round that same corner perfectly okay. Only Hamilton sailed through the gravel, that's the big difference.

Edited by as65p, 31 August 2010 - 13:04.


#4362 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,823 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:12

There were other drivers on slicks that lap, going round that same corner perfectly okay. Only Hamilton sailed through the gravel, that's the big difference.


haha, you really don't like hamilton do you! I think it's more than just Fernando's head he's got inside :kiss:

#4363 Yakari

Yakari
  • Member

  • 113 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:13

There were other drivers on slicks that lap, going round that same corner perfectly okay. Only Hamilton sailed through the gravel, that's the big difference.

Yep. And without getting warned over the radio too.

#4364 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,789 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:14

haha, you really don't like hamilton do you! I think it's more than just Fernando's head he's got inside :kiss:


Okay, as you have nothing to argue with my point, I take that as a +1, right? :)

#4365 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:15

The lady hasn't sung yet. Alonso's in essentially identical situation to Kimi in 2007. Same pressure. Same points difference to leader. But Alonso has the benefit of being the clear favored driver on his team. That's with 2nd driver who is not allowed to beat him, and car that has been extremely good taking them to 1-2 in two races already this year. And though it's not as important of an advantage, I think he's also in superior position due to there being so many close drivers at top -- they will be trading off podium spots -- taking points away from each other. So no one is going to be automatically getting 2nd and 3rd place the way Hamilton and Alonso did in 2007 whenever Kimi won. When Alonso wins the championship leader can easily be back in 5th or something because there is so much competition. So the points opportunities are much more wide open this year.

This season isn't even close to over if he can just start driving well.

Kimi had the fastest car in 2007, Alonso will do well to win 1 or 2 races out of the last 6

#4366 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,823 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:17

Okay, as you have nothing to argue with my point, I take that as a +1, right? :)


Yeah, take it however you want. I'm just happy hamilton took home the 25 pts. I still think your boy is in the running though, but I think the WMSC meeting and the fact that he used his 7th engine this weekend could count against him if he does manage to drag himself up there. Despite being a mac fan I hope alonso doesn't get penalised for the swapping of places, I'd rather see him in the title fight than out of it.

#4367 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:22

There were other drivers on slicks that lap, going round that same corner perfectly okay. Only Hamilton sailed through the gravel, that's the big difference.

It was raining the track was getting wetter, how can you judge the grip bearing in mind if you back up too much you lose ground to the driver behind. Its always much harder for the driver in front whereas the driver behind can be warned of whats happening in front. On wet tyres the grip is a lot more and a lot more consistent, how many drivers went off on slicks, how many drivers went off on wets?

#4368 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:25

Yeah, take it however you want. I'm just happy hamilton took home the 25 pts. I still think your boy is in the running though, but I think the WMSC meeting and the fact that he used his 7th engine this weekend could count against him if he does manage to drag himself up there. Despite being a mac fan I hope alonso doesn't get penalised for the swapping of places, I'd rather see him in the title fight than out of it.

Same here, even as a Lewis fan i hope Ferrari dont get penalised points, i prefer racing to be decided on the track rather than off it

#4369 AlanWake

AlanWake
  • Member

  • 1,610 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:27

Alonso getting trashed in Italian media..

Got to love it


Typical Italian media...

We will see what they say about Alonso when he wins again  ;)



#4370 Desdirodeabike

Desdirodeabike
  • Member

  • 1,898 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:27

Kimi had the fastest car in 2007, Alonso will do well to win 1 or 2 races out of the last 6

But Alonso has the best car he has ever driven this year.
Btw - it is widely accepted that the 07 McLaren were a better allround car than the Ferrari. And at the least just as fast.

Edited by Desdirodeabike, 31 August 2010 - 13:28.


#4371 artista

artista
  • RC Forum Host

  • 5,299 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:29

wait until Spanish media runs to save their boy --- > fireworks


Alonso is also beginning to get critics in some Spanish media. For example, this is the title and the first paragraph of the article Villadelprat wrote yesterday for El País:

http://www.elpais.co...lpepidep_18/Tes

Alonso y Ferrari lo hacen todo mal

Las cosas se le están complicando a Fernando Alonso en sus aspiraciones de ganar el título mundial de F-1 en su primera temporada en Ferrari. No es un problema del coche porque el F10 funciona bien y es competitivo tal y como ayer se encargó de demostrar Felipe Massa, que acabó cuarto sin ningún problema. Lo que realmente está perjudicando al español son los terribles errores que están cometiendo tanto él mismo como el propio equipo.


Housemade translation (corrections admitted):

Alonso and Ferrari do everything wrong

"Things are getting difficult for Fernando Alonso in his ambition to win the F1 World Championship in his first season in Ferrari. The car is not the problem because the F10 works well and is competitive, as yesterday Felipe Massa, who finished fourth and without problems, demonstrated. What’s really adversely affecting the Spaniard are the terrible errors, both, he and the team are making."




#4372 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:34

Are you Macca guys sure you want Alonso in the championship or is it just that you don't want the potential ramifications of Alonso being punished now that it has become clear that Jenson will have to lend a helping hand to Hamilton?

If Ferrari get punished I can just see them protesting the minute there is a sniff of a team order... Charlie is going to have his hands full.;)

#4373 bond

bond
  • Member

  • 2,554 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:38

Are you Macca guys sure you want Alonso in the championship or is it just that you don't want the potential ramifications of Alonso being punished now that it has become clear that Jenson will have to lend a helping hand to Hamilton?

If Ferrari get punished I can just see them protesting the minute there is a sniff of a team order... Charlie is going to have his hands full.;)

:lol: :lol:

#4374 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:40

But Alonso has the best car he has ever driven this year.
Btw - it is widely accepted that the 07 McLaren were a better allround car than the Ferrari. And at the least just as fast.

I thought Alonso's performances relative to Massa have somewhat disproved that theory

Are you Macca guys sure you want Alonso in the championship or is it just that you don't want the potential ramifications of Alonso being punished now that it has become clear that Jenson will have to lend a helping hand to Hamilton?

If Ferrari get punished I can just see them protesting the minute there is a sniff of a team order... Charlie is going to have his hands full.;)

When is Jenson ever in front of Lewis plus Jenson isnt a #2 driver

#4375 AlanWake

AlanWake
  • Member

  • 1,610 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:41

"Things are getting difficult for Fernando Alonso in his ambition to win the F1 World Championship in his first season in Ferrari. The car is not the problem because the F10 works well and is competitive, as yesterday Felipe Massa, who finished fourth and without problems, demonstrated. What’s really adversely affecting the Spaniard are the terrible errors, both, he and the team are making."


Based on Massa's performance, I'd say the F10 was the the fourth best car in the last race, therefore the F10 wasn't competitive at all.


#4376 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,823 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:41

Are you Macca guys sure you want Alonso in the championship or is it just that you don't want the potential ramifications of Alonso being punished now that it has become clear that Jenson will have to lend a helping hand to Hamilton?

If Ferrari get punished I can just see them protesting the minute there is a sniff of a team order... Charlie is going to have his hands full.;)


I'm sure I want Alonso in the championship. Like Yorkie i want to see things settled on the track. I also think that it's no bad thing to have Fernando in the mix with the Red Bulls. It would take a lot to convince me that there is a better 'racer' in the championship than Hamilton. The more people in the mix, the better for him as I think he's best equipped to deal with it and there's a greater chance he'll prevail. In a straight fight with Webber, I'm not sure he's got the car to do it.

#4377 Redstorm

Redstorm
  • Member

  • 343 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:44

When is Jenson ever in front of Lewis

That right there made my morning Yorkie!

#4378 Desdirodeabike

Desdirodeabike
  • Member

  • 1,898 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:44

I thought Alonso's performances relative to Massa have somewhat disproved that theory

What "theory"? That its the best car he has ever driven are Alonsos own words.

#4379 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:45

Based on Massa's performance, I'd say the F10 was the the fourth best car in the last race, therefore the F10 wasn't competitive at all.

How good is Massa?

Advertisement

#4380 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:45

I thought Alonso's performances relative to Massa have somewhat disproved that theory


When is Jenson ever in front of Lewis plus Jenson isnt a #2 driver

Hamilton hasn't done well at Monza besides a 2nd place in 2007. A 7th and a DNF are his other results...

Anyway, it's bound to happen that Jenson gets in the way of Hamilton.

#4381 AlanWake

AlanWake
  • Member

  • 1,610 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:46

How good is Massa?


He beat Kimi :)

#4382 hotstickyslick

hotstickyslick
  • Member

  • 3,400 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:51

Hamilton hasn't done well at Monza besides a 2nd place in 2007. A 7th and a DNF are his other results...

Anyway, it's bound to happen that Jenson gets in the way of Hamilton.

A wet qualifying and race where he climbed up to second and would have finished much higher if it had kept raining as was expected in 2008. Last year he was running third in a car that shouldn't have been third. A mistake is a mistake but it just proves that he generally goes well around Monza.

#4383 artista

artista
  • RC Forum Host

  • 5,299 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:53

I thought Alonso's performances relative to Massa have somewhat disproved that theory


Massa suffered very serious injuries last year. There’s really no way to know if he’s the same one he was or not. I wish for him all the best and, therefore, I hope he’s the same old Massa, but taking Massa’s performances in the past as a reference for this season is, at least, a bit risky.

Based on Massa's performance, I'd say the F10 was the the fourth best car in the last race, therefore the F10 wasn't competitive at all.


Don’t tell me, I have not driven any of those cars in my life (not that I want, I would get scared to death :) ) and don’t know which one is best. Nevertheless, I hope Villadelprat knows a word or two about what he’s writing, don’t forget he wanted to get one slot for his team in next year’s F1 grid.

#4384 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:54

Hamilton hasn't done well at Monza besides a 2nd place in 2007. A 7th and a DNF are his other results...

Anyway, it's bound to happen that Jenson gets in the way of Hamilton.

2008 he qualified 17th because of glazed brakes in wet qualifying and very nearly made the podium, 2009 he threw away an easy 3rd place, he has no weak tracks.

Well Jenson is not Lewis's #2 and neither does Lewis expect him to be, the Red Bull drivers are in the same boat so thats no disadvantage for Lewis. As for Alonso; Lewis, Jenson, Webber and Vettel aren't going to be moving aside for him like Massa is.

#4385 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,789 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:54

It was raining the track was getting wetter,


Which would mean that those following Hamilton on slicks had even less grip than him yet somehow managed to avoid the gravel. Right?

how can you judge the grip bearing in mind if you back up too much you lose ground to the driver behind. Its always much harder for the driver in front whereas the driver behind can be warned of whats happening in front. On wet tyres the grip is a lot more and a lot more consistent, how many drivers went off on slicks, how many drivers went off on wets?


I'm aware that on slicks in the wet the grip is limited, believe it or not. :)

Yet the fact remains that Hamilton, driving otherwise quite brilliantly the whole weekend, made a plain and simple error that could have thrown it all away in a second. He slithered off where the rest of the slick shot cars managed not to, that alone is proof it was perfectly possible to negotiate the corner.

I'm happy to say a second time how good Hamilton performed all weekend, yet the fact that in the end he needed a very lucky escape to reap the benefits won't go away.

#4386 bauss

bauss
  • Member

  • 5,067 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:55

There were other drivers on slicks that lap, going round that same corner perfectly okay. Only Hamilton sailed through the gravel, that's the big difference.


possibly because they were all warned once Hamilton went off... he was 13 seconds ahead, so ample time to tell them be careful at turn 8 or so....

We've seen the best drivers going off track once they are on wrong tires for track conditions. That happens all the time...no one blamed Jens for going off on slicks in Australia, etc

Just yesterday, they were all caught out by the wet conditions n the first 6 cars or so went off on lap one at the final corner... no big deal. The others behind saw that and braked a bit earlier....

Spinning off while on the right tires on the other hand, is not a good look at all, much more of an unforced mistake.... I will be pissed if my fav. driver does it.


I frankly think the pressure is getting at Alonso, it has been for a while... watching the replay, I was stunned by how disregarding he was of the conditions n chose to take all the kerb in that corner with his foot down, when even I from video games know you wanna stay clear of those things in the wet. Was like he wanted to go for glory with reckless abandon and got duly punished immediately...

If you want to compare it to Lewis, compare it to Lewis in Monza last year... with the exception that Lewis wasnt in a title fight.

If I was an Alonso fan, id be worried.... to do a Kimi, alot has to be in place, including the ice cold nature of a Kimi. I see none of those in place for Fred...

his 50% title chance talk was laughable then, n quite ridiculous now.

Edited by bauss, 31 August 2010 - 14:00.


#4387 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 13:58

He beat Kimi :)

Didn't Ferrari sack Kimi? ;)

Massa suffered very serious injuries last year. There’s really no way to know if he’s the same one he was or not. I wish for him all the best and, therefore, I hope he’s the same old Massa, but taking Massa’s performances in the past as a reference for this season is, at least, a bit risky.

Do you think Ferrari would have resigned Massa if he was impaired in anyway, also Hakkinen had i believe worse injuries than Massa but came back to be 2xWDC

#4388 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 7,672 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:02

We've seen the best drivers going off track once they are on wrong tires for track conditions. That happens all the time...no one blamed Jens for going off on slicks in Australia, etc

You're having a laugh... :lol:

Although I agree, once Lewis went off the radio messages would have gone out.

#4389 artista

artista
  • RC Forum Host

  • 5,299 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:05

Do you think Ferrari would have resigned Massa if he was impaired in anyway, also Hakkinen had i believe worse injuries than Massa but came back to be 2xWDC


Do you think Ferrari could work at all with Kimi and Alonso in the same team? That would be real fireworks. Ferrari are not that stupid.

Yes, Häkkinen made it, but he is the only case I know of a F1 driver who suffered head injuries and was still the same after the accident. Häkkinen is the reason why I say there’s no way to know if Massa is the same old Massa or not instead of saying Massa is not the old one. :)

#4390 AlanWake

AlanWake
  • Member

  • 1,610 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:05

It's crystal clear that Alonso made a BAD decision with the set up for qualifying. I can't understand why he didn't try to qualify higher like his teammate did. You can't take risks when you fight for the WDC.

#4391 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:05

Which would mean that those following Hamilton on slicks had even less grip than him yet somehow managed to avoid the gravel. Right?



I'm aware that on slicks in the wet the grip is limited, believe it or not. :)

Yet the fact remains that Hamilton, driving otherwise quite brilliantly the whole weekend, made a plain and simple error that could have thrown it all away in a second. He slithered off where the rest of the slick shot cars managed not to, that alone is proof it was perfectly possible to negotiate the corner.

I'm happy to say a second time how good Hamilton performed all weekend, yet the fact that in the end he needed a very lucky escape to reap the benefits won't go away.

They would have been warned that the grip level had fallen below a certain level and that now it was prudent to be very carefull much like Lewis was after his excursion and didnt go off again, and how different was it too all the cars going off earlier in the race when the rain came?

#4392 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,789 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:06

possibly because they were all warned once Hamilton went off... he was 13 seconds ahead, so ample time to tell them be careful at turn 8 or so....

We've seen the best drivers going off track once they are on wrong tires for track conditions. That happens all the time...no one blamed Jens for going off on slicks in Australia, etc

Just yesterday, they were all caught out by the wet conditions n the first 6 cars or so went off on lap one at the final corner... no big deal. The others behind saw that and braked a bit earlier....

Spinning off while on the right tires on the other hand, is not a good look at all, much more of an unforced mistake.... I will be pissed if my fav. driver does it.


I understand meanwhile that the goal is to play down Hamiltons error and exaggerate Alonsos. Unfortunately it doesn't fly.

In both cases the circumstances were controllable. No aquaplaning or standing water on track during Hamiltons excursion on slicks, which means there was a certain grip limit in the specific condition on the specific tyre (again, as proved by the other drivers on the same tyre getting round fine). Just as there was with Alonso when he lost it. How high or low the grip level was is irrelevant, in both cases there was a limit and in both cases the drivers exceeded it due to their very own fault.

Only difference is that one was lucky to escape and the other not.

#4393 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 7,672 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:07

I understand meanwhile that the goal is to play down Hamiltons error and exaggerate Alonsos. Unfortunately it doesn't fly.

In both cases the circumstances were controllable. No aquaplaning or standing water on track during Hamiltons excursion on slicks, which means there was a certain grip limit in the specific condition on the specific tyre (again, as proved by the other drivers on the same tyre getting round fine). Just as there was with Alonso when he lost it. How high or low the grip level was is irrelevant, in both cases there was a limit and in both cases the drivers exceeded it due to their very own fault.

Only difference is that one was lucky to escape and the other not.

It's not proved by that.
You know it isn't.
Or maybe I should say that it's not obvious that the change in grip was evident. :)

Edited by trogggy, 31 August 2010 - 14:09.


#4394 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:07

That right there made my morning Yorkie!

Cheers bud, how you doing mate? :wave:

#4395 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,683 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:09

Didn't Ferrari sack Kimi?;)


Do you think Ferrari would have resigned Massa if he was impaired in anyway, also Hakkinen had i believe worse injuries than Massa but came back to be 2xWDC


When it comes to brain injuries you cannot compare them. I know of people who have had quite severe head injuries and yet came away without any noticeable problems and others who have taken what seemed quite innocuous blows and yet have been affected immensely.

#4396 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,789 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:10

They would have been warned that the grip level had fallen below a certain level and that now it was prudent to be very carefull much like Lewis was after his excursion and didnt go off again, and how different was it too all the cars going off earlier in the race when the rain came?


Well exactly, Hamilton wasn't prudent or careful enough, that's why he went off. Commonly called a mistake.

And not all cars were going off on the first lap. Ironically, among others it was Alonso who looked like making the corner just fine, until Barrichello hit him.

#4397 as65p

as65p
  • Member

  • 17,789 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:11

It's not proved by that.
You know it isn't.
Or maybe I should say that it's not obvious that the change in grip was evident. :)


:lol:

#4398 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 7,672 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:15

:lol:

:confused:

Maybe it's not very well expressed.
Which bit's funny though?

#4399 teejay

teejay
  • Member

  • 3,767 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:24

I understand meanwhile that the goal is to play down Hamiltons error and exaggerate Alonsos. Unfortunately it doesn't fly.

In both cases the circumstances were controllable. No aquaplaning or standing water on track during Hamiltons excursion on slicks, which means there was a certain grip limit in the specific condition on the specific tyre (again, as proved by the other drivers on the same tyre getting round fine). Just as there was with Alonso when he lost it. How high or low the grip level was is irrelevant, in both cases there was a limit and in both cases the drivers exceeded it due to their very own fault.

Only difference is that one was lucky to escape and the other not.


It sure does fly.

Lewis - slicks on a track that had just started to get wet, so no real idea of the grip levels as he was the first car through on the lap

Fernando - wet tyres on a track that was already wet which every driver was aware of as it had been raining for a while in a car setup to suit the wet.

Your telling us its the same thing?

Ironically, among others it was Alonso who looked like making the corner just fine, until Barrichello hit him.


Because he was far enough back to see the issue.

Edited by teejay, 31 August 2010 - 14:26.


Advertisement

#4400 Yorkie

Yorkie
  • Member

  • 2,192 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 31 August 2010 - 14:24

What "theory"? That its the best car he has ever driven are Alonsos own words.

You mean the F10?

Do you think Ferrari could work at all with Kimi and Alonso in the same team? That would be real fireworks. Ferrari are not that stupid.

Yes, Häkkinen made it, but he is the only case I know of a F1 driver who suffered head injuries and was still the same after the accident. Häkkinen is the reason why I say there’s no way to know if Massa is the same old Massa or not instead of saying Massa is not the old one. :)

You think Massa was that good that Ferrari would resign a sub-standard Massa?

When it comes to brain injuries you cannot compare them. I know of people who have had quite severe head injuries and yet came away without any noticeable problems and others who have taken what seemed quite innocuous blows and yet have been affected immensely.

If Ferrari had any doubts on that score i dont believe they would have resigned him

Well exactly, Hamilton wasn't prudent or careful enough, that's why he went off. Commonly called a mistake.

And not all cars were going off on the first lap. Ironically, among others it was Alonso who looked like making the corner just fine, until Barrichello hit him.

Alonso would have had the benefit of seeing the cars going off in front of him, even then he didnt exactly make the corner, he just managed to stay on the track.

You mentioned in reply to someone else that Lewis would have known the consistency of the grip, which he wouldnt have known at all, when it starts to rain its hard to know how fast to go into a corner, too slow and you lose time to your competitors, you go in slightly too fast you run wide.

With Alonso he would have had fairly consistent grip on the wets, simple he ran wide oof track where it was more slippy, spun and crashed. Like i asked before how many drivers went off on slicks, how many drivers went off on wets?