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Jenson Button thread


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#1 Lights

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 15:01

"I think Button's career and his performances have been jo-joing quite a lot.
It was as obvious as a dogs dangly bits that he had immense talent when he entered the sport in '00, more or less matching Ralf Schumacher and even out-qualifying him on the drivers-tracks.
In '01 and '02 I believe the F1-lifestyle got in the way of concentrating on his own performance, and that coupled with a difficult car sort of "prevented" him from showing the big jump in performance all drivers have from the rookie season to the second season. Button poured cold water over himself some time into the '02-season and again it was evident he had real talent, as he pushed and sometimes beat Trulli.
He built on that in '03 when he joined B.A.R and got all the attention from Richards. That put him in a comfy environment and he really maximised his potential I think. However I've always maintained that he was a bit flattered but the hopeless situation Villeneuve found himself in, as I'm sure the atmosphere he experienced put a stoppage to him extracting everything from himself. This is sports phsycolgy and it's fantasy thinking it doesn't come into the picture in F1 as well.
'04 was a great season and yes, there were whispers in the paddock about an interest from Ferrari. Overall I think he performed fantastically, but was surprised to learn a year or two later that "rival team engineers had put the numbers and parametres into their sims and concluded that Button should have won atleast one or perhaps two races that year". Button absolutely smashed Sato but ironically it was Sato who came closest to winning a race that year, the US GP but the team pitted him at the wrong moment and denied him the top step of the podium.
'05 was when Button showed himself as a very, very good one-lap qualifier, and he once again had a really good season.
'06 came the first win and not surprisingly it came in the wet.
The seasons coupled with Barrichello was on average pretty one-sided I think. Button always performed better than Barrichello by a healthy margin even if he got fewer points on the table in one season. (I put the average margin to the Schumacher-fans, saying Button's advantage on Barrichello is very close to what Schumacher had. Are they (almost) as good/fast? -they didn't like that, but in all fairness I've always said that cross comparing over different seasons and teams doesn't work. It is or could be a pointer though.)


Quite accurate analysis on his early years.

The idea of Button should have won races in 2004 has come up several times before, and my question to that is 'Which races are they talking about then?'. I'm not impressed by rival team engineers fiddling about with some numbers. Really not. At no point in the season, BAR looked like the quickest car. Button didn't ruin any chances himself by mistakes either.

Also I can't remember Sato being close to winning at the US GP. As at most of the races, Ferrari was dominant and Sato wasn't going to break that. It was his only podium compared to Buttons' 10. I'm sure one of those was closer to a win than Sato's race at Indianapolis. Plus, Button retired right behind him with a gearbox failure.

I wouldn't say the fight with Barrichello was one-sided either. Only in 2006 he really outclassed him by scoring almost double the amount of points. In that season he beat him Schumi-style. In 2007/2008 though they were evenly matched and in 2009 he was only a little ahead.

And I don't know exactly at who you're aiming your last sentence at.


Oh, the last sentence isn't aimed at you, it's just that I've seen that some seem to celebrate Button beating Hamilton already.

I think it was B.A.R's dodgy pit stop-call that prevented Sato from any chance of winning the '04 US GP. I can imagine Hockenheim may've been a race where rival engineers concluded the pace was there, but I assume they didn't count that as one of the two tracks, 'cause Button had to fight from the back there. Maybe Imola was one?

I disagree about Button v Barrichello. It was Button all the way in some seasons and last year was from from even. As has been said before, Barrichello was way off when Button won six races at the beginning of the season.


I can remember Schumacher leading with the BAR's behind him. At a safety car, Schumacher pitted, still stayed in the lead, and thereby the BAR's had no chance for the victory. Or am I wrong there? Can't exactly remember. I don't think Sato had a big chance of winning anyway. If anything, he had to pass Schumacher directly on track. Would have been quite a challenge. Button retired with a broken gearbox somewhere halfway though.

Button's best chance perhaps was Imola indeed, but the only reason he got that pole was because Schumacher made a mistake in his qualy lap. Ferrari was quicker, it was obvious and no surprise Schumacher won there.

Other races.. no idea, Monaco he got 2nd but the Renault's were dominating.

In Brazil he looked like having a chance but retired in early stages with an engine problem.

For the rest.. I really don't know.

Edited by D.M.N., 14 June 2012 - 21:58.


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#2 Jose Mourinho is Special

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 15:02

very similar to Mika Hakkinen's dont you think?

Edited by Jose Mourinho is Special, 23 April 2010 - 15:03.


#3 Lights

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 15:07

very similar to Mika Hakkinen's dont you think?

If he wins the championship this year again... very.

Both are typical examples of great drivers who had to wait too long before getting their hands on some decent material.

#4 Jeag

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 15:12

Monza 04 is the only other place i think he might have had a slight chance at a race win in 2004, but it certainly wasn't because the car was the fastest or even joint fastest.

#5 Disgrace

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 15:20

very similar to Mika Hakkinen's dont you think?


I was thinking about that comparison earlier actually.

Lot of pace displayed throughout their careers, took 96 races for Hakkinen to win and 113 races for Button to win.

Both stuck with the same team throughout the dreary years, Hakkinen during McLarens lean period and Button during the Honda years.

Both won their championships the year after they seemed, arguably, to be on the cusp of losing interest in F1.

Button was soundly beaten by Barrichello in 2008. Button crashed into Heidfeld in Monaco and spun off at Silverstone, both wet races during which he could have scored. Barrichello got a podium in the latter.

Hakkinen was out-scored by Coulthard in 1997 but mostly due to Hakkinens appalling luck. Engine failures at Silverstone, A1-Ring and Nurburgring while leading among many other problems. He got his first victory but only after Coulthard moved over.

So there...

#6 race addicted

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 15:20

I can remember Schumacher leading with the BAR's behind him. At a safety car, Schumacher pitted, still stayed in the lead, and thereby the BAR's had no chance for the victory. Or am I wrong there? Can't exactly remember. I don't think Sato had a big chance of winning anyway. If anything, he had to pass Schumacher directly on track. Would have been quite a challenge. Button retired with a broken gearbox somewhere halfway though.

Button's best chance perhaps was Imola indeed, but the only reason he got that pole was because Schumacher made a mistake in his qualy lap. Ferrari was quicker, it was obvious and no surprise Schumacher won there.

Other races.. no idea, Monaco he got 2nd but the Renault's were dominating.

In Brazil he looked like having a chance but retired in early stages with an engine problem.

For the rest.. I really don't know.




Monaco! Surely that was one of them. I can imagine those rival engineers thinking the car had performance enough for Button to pull it out either right before- or after a pitstop. Afterall he was all over Trulli in the latter stages of the race.
I believe the car was indeed very close around Imola, but Schumacher was just a good deal quicker.
Brazil may've been that second race but it's futile as his car broke down.

As I remember it, B.A.R's call on the timing of the stop prevented Sato from coming out ahead, but it could well be that my recollection of the events are wrong.

PS - you don't have my first post on the subject by any chance? =)

--------------------
Edit - here it is:


"I think Button's career and his performances have been jo-joing quite a lot.
It was as obvious as a dogs dangly bits that he had immense talent when he entered the sport in '00, more or less matching Ralf Schumacher and even out-qualifying him on the drivers-tracks.
In '01 and '02 I believe the F1-lifestyle got in the way of concentrating on his own performance, and that coupled with a difficult car sort of "prevented" him from showing the big jump in performance all drivers have from the rookie season to the second season. Button poured cold water over himself some time into the '02-season and again it was evident he had real talent, as he pushed and sometimes beat Trulli.
He built on that in '03 when he joined B.A.R and got all the attention from Richards. That put him in a comfy environment and he really maximised his potential I think. However I've always maintained that he was a bit flattered but the hopeless situation Villeneuve found himself in, as I'm sure the atmosphere he experienced put a stoppage to him extracting everything from himself. This is sports phsycolgy and it's fantasy thinking it doesn't come into the picture in F1 as well.
'04 was a great season and yes, there were whispers in the paddock about an interest from Ferrari. Overall I think he performed fantastically, but was surprised to learn a year or two later that "rival team engineers had put the numbers and parametres into their sims and concluded that Button should have won atleast one or perhaps two races that year". Button absolutely smashed Sato but ironically it was Sato who came closest to winning a race that year, the US GP but the team pitted him at the wrong moment and denied him the top step of the podium.
'05 was when Button showed himself as a very, very good one-lap qualifier, and he once again had a really good season.
'06 came the first win and not surprisingly it came in the wet.
The seasons coupled with Barrichello was on average pretty one-sided I think. Button always performed better than Barrichello by a healthy margin even if he got fewer points on the table in one season. (I put the average margin to the Schumacher-fans, saying Button's advantage on Barrichello is very close to what Schumacher had. Are they (almost) as good/fast? -they didn't like that, but in all fairness I've always said that cross comparing over different seasons and teams doesn't work. It is or could be a pointer though.)

...But, with regards to the battle between Button and Hamilton, I do think that the most dedicated Button-supporters needs to put the brakes on. It's too early to shout "wahey", 'cause the season isn't over till November."

Edited by race addicted, 23 April 2010 - 16:09.


#7 Lights

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 15:53

Monza 04 is the only other place i think he might have had a slight chance at a race win in 2004, but it certainly wasn't because the car was the fastest or even joint fastest.

That was mainly lost because it took Ferrari very long to get to speed. You could say however that he wasnt far ahead of Sato so could've been better.

#8 BuzzingHornet

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 16:04

I do think that the most dedicated Button-supporters needs to put the brakes on. It's too early to shout "wahey", 'cause the season isn't over till November.


Totally agree, Hamilton is going to win races this year without a doubt. It will swing one way then the other.


#9 Lights

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 16:39

Monaco! Surely that was one of them. I can imagine those rival engineers thinking the car had performance enough for Button to pull it out either right before- or after a pitstop. Afterall he was all over Trulli in the latter stages of the race.

Yeah he was, but that was also because of safety cars IIRC. Trulli got pole by quite a margin, with Alonso starting 3rd. The Renault were sick off the line that year, so it was no surprise they were leading after turn 1 with Button in 3rd. Then he got second as Alonso crashed, and at the end he was all over the back of Trulli indeed. Neither of them had won a GP yet so while Trulli was a bit careful not to make silly mistakes, Button was driving like he later claimed 'I would have rather crashed trying to win than finish second' but he got 2nd anyway.

They might see it as an opportunity based on Ferrari having lost their advantage, but Renault wasn't far away from BAR at any point during the season and Monaco just suited them perfectly, IMO.

As I remember it, B.A.R's call on the timing of the stop prevented Sato from coming out ahead, but it could well be that my recollection of the events are wrong.

Well, unfortunately I couldn't find any footage of it, but he indeed didn't pit under the safety car as some others did. BAR simply didn't make that call. What he did after that didn't really matter much anymore, as he still had 2 stops to go while Schumacher only had one. Even if he pitted though, I doubt he could've kept up with Schumacher. Any Sato fans here that want to prove me wrong, you're welcome. ;)

#10 race addicted

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 16:50

Hehe, not a Sato-fan, but he seemed really on it, so I think he could've done it. He always seemed very daring when attempting a pass that year.

#11 tkulla

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 17:00

The German GP in 2004 would have been Jenson's best shot at a win that year, but a Friday engine change meant he started 13th but ended up finishing 2nd and only 8 seconds behind Schumi. An impressive performance considering there weren't any safety car periods or rain.



#12 Nottub

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 17:26

Well, why not refresh your memory by re-watching all the 18 races from the 2004 season? :) I have the rapidshare links for the whole season (UK commentators). I'm not sure I can put it here.

Edit: PM me.

Edited by Nottub, 23 April 2010 - 17:54.


#13 Lesov

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 17:38

Well, why not refresh your memory by re-watching all the 18 races from the 2004 season? :) I have the rapidshare links for the whole season (UK commentators). I'm not sure I can put it here.



:eek: could you send us the links in a PM?

#14 Lights

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 17:39

Well, why not refresh your memory by re-watching all the 18 races from the 2004 season? :) I have the rapidshare links for the whole season (UK commentators). I'm not sure I can put it here.

Send you a PM. :up:

#15 Lights

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 17:42

The German GP in 2004 would have been Jenson's best shot at a win that year, but a Friday engine change meant he started 13th but ended up finishing 2nd and only 8 seconds behind Schumi. An impressive performance considering there weren't any safety car periods or rain.

Too true. It was probably his best performance of the season. And one of the first moments the majority perhaps noticed him as a better-than-mediocre driver.

For comparison, his teammate Sato started 8th and finished 8th.

#16 sushantf1

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 17:45

IMO Button still lacks the aggression compared to Hamilton,kubica,vettel

#17 Lights

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 17:46

IMO Button still lacks the aggression compared to Hamilton,kubica,vettel

Like overall driving style, or do you have certain examples of moments you think he should have been more aggressive?

#18 sushantf1

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 18:00

Like overall driving style, or do you have certain examples of moments you think he should have been more aggressive?

I meant his smooth style which is opposite to aggressive styles of others....worked in wet but not worked in dry

#19 Atreiu

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 18:14

Monza 2004? Ferrari squashed and stomped everyone that day. How could Button have ever won that?
Maybe Alonso could have done some more. But the Ferraris still had the pace to overtake anyone.
Only the weather put Button within a slim chance that day.

Perhaps the engineers meant Sepang. Montoya gave Schumacher a run for his money, on a weekend Michelin had worthy tyres, and the BAR was probably better than the Williams all year long.

Edited by Atreiu, 23 April 2010 - 18:16.


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#20 Bleu

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 18:14

One thing I have to say that Button is one of the drivers who has driven all kind of cars: dominant car (Brawn), good challenger (BAR 2004), higher mid-pack (Renault 2002), lower mid-pack (Benetton 2001 late season), and really bad ones (Honda 2007-08)

Of Barrichello you can say about the same, but how many others?

#21 Lights

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 18:22

Monza 2004? Ferrari squashed and stomped everyone that day. How could Button have ever won that?
Maybe Alonso could have done some more. But the Ferraris still had the pace to overtake anyone.
Only the weather put Button within a slim chance that day.

Well, Button was leading the majority of the race. But then the last 15 laps or so Ferrari indeed squashed everybody and both passed Button with easy with a couple of laps to go.

#22 Iron Maiden

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 18:35

Monza 2004? Ferrari squashed and stomped everyone that day. How could Button have ever won that?
Maybe Alonso could have done some more. But the Ferraris still had the pace to overtake anyone.
Only the weather put Button within a slim chance that day.

Perhaps the engineers meant Sepang. Montoya gave Schumacher a run for his money, on a weekend Michelin had worthy tyres, and the BAR was probably better than the Williams all year long.


I would say his best chances to win were in China and Brazil.

In Monza he got out into the lead and stayed there for quite a while but the Ferrari's were on another planet and eventually caught up and passed. In Germany, even though he was perhaps one of his best ever races.. I think Ferrari had enough pace in hand to fend him off without the grid drop.

Nobody seems to remember this race, it might have been his best chance of a win in 2004. In China Jenson qualified 3rd, two tenths off pole. The thing is, he was on a 2 stop strategy while Rubens and Kimi ahead were on for 3. He finished 2nd, 1 second behind Rubens at the flag.. maybe if BAR had gone agressive and taken pole, he would have been able to control the race in free air and find that extra 1 second needed for the win.

In Brazil, he retired early while ahead of race winner Montoya.. if he could have stayed there, its likely he'd have won the race.

#23 Disgrace

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 19:20

2004? Ferrari squashed and stomped everyone that year. How could Button have ever won anything?


Edited for accuracy.

They only lost Monaco because Schumacher crashed behind the safety car and towards the end of the season, after the title was won, they really could not give a rat's arse about the rest of the season. Schumacher was having a laugh with some poor drives.

#24 Disgrace

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 19:21

Nobody seems to remember this race, it might have been his best chance of a win in 2004. In China Jenson qualified 3rd, two tenths off pole. The thing is, he was on a 2 stop strategy while Rubens and Kimi ahead were on for 3. He finished 2nd, 1 second behind Rubens at the flag.. maybe if BAR had gone agressive and taken pole, he would have been able to control the race in free air and find that extra 1 second needed for the win.


Indeed, but he also made a hash of the start, which was the main reason for me.

#25 eliteboy2780

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 19:52

Posted Image

how about this for a career shot?

#26 Messi10

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 20:07

In Brazil, he retired early while ahead of race winner Montoya.. if he could have stayed there, its likely he'd have won the race.



Montoya had passed Button and was third behind Rubens and Kimi when Button retired.. I am downloading the race now to confirm but I found this video.

http://www.dailymoti...ic-amazing_auto

Interlagos always provides some of the best racing in Formula 1.

#27 Lights

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 20:07

Nobody seems to remember this race, it might have been his best chance of a win in 2004. In China Jenson qualified 3rd, two tenths off pole. The thing is, he was on a 2 stop strategy while Rubens and Kimi ahead were on for 3. He finished 2nd, 1 second behind Rubens at the flag.. maybe if BAR had gone agressive and taken pole, he would have been able to control the race in free air and find that extra 1 second needed for the win.

I thought 2 stopping was the optimal strategy there. Didn't Raikkonen actually switch his strategy in order to try and overtake Rubens? Instead he ended up behind Button in 3rd.
He had a chance there, but that was only because Schumacher wasn't taking it seriously anymore after winning his title and so Rubens was suddenly the man to beat.

#28 Atreiu

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Posted 23 April 2010 - 20:25

Germany was Kimi's race.
Fastest lap and bang, wing fell off.

#29 THE "driverider"

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 21:45

Germany 04 Jenson had an engine penalty and came from 14th to 2nd, Monaco 04 he was very close towards the end and Japan 03 I believe Jenson got close to winning to.

In many aspects Jenson's driving style reminds me of Alain Prost but his career of Mika Hakkinen.
Whereas Lewis Hamilton's driving style reminds me of Ayrton Sennna but his career kind of like Michael Schumacher.

#30 Lights

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 22:52

Germany 04 Jenson had an engine penalty and came from 14th to 2nd, Monaco 04 he was very close towards the end and Japan 03 I believe Jenson got close to winning to.

Japan '03? Nah, that BAR wasn't up for it. IIRC he got 4th. It was a promising result indicating 2004 was going to be good, and it was. :smoking:

#31 Atreiu

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 23:25

Wasn't he set for a good result at Indy 03 before his engine broke?

#32 Bleu

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 08:10

Wasn't he set for a good result at Indy 03 before his engine broke?


Yes. Bridgestone inters were better than Michelins back then, and Button had enough fuel in the start not to make pit stop before the rain arrived. Therefore he was leading at one point before overtaken by Schumacher. Not sure if Räikkönen could have catched and passed him after rain stopped and it dried again but he certainly lost a podium.

#33 Lights

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Posted 25 April 2010 - 08:33

Yes. Bridgestone inters were better than Michelins back then, and Button had enough fuel in the start not to make pit stop before the rain arrived. Therefore he was leading at one point before overtaken by Schumacher. Not sure if Räikkönen could have catched and passed him after rain stopped and it dried again but he certainly lost a podium.

Nah, that was just a 'lucky' tyre call, surely :p

Realistically I think Kimi would have caught him, but he had 3rd place in the bag. I remember a certain 'Honda - The power of dreams' advert on tv afterwards.



#34 Owen

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:51

Button wants to end career at McLaren
Jenson Button says he is ready to commit the rest of his Formula 1 career to McLaren
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/90961

#35 fed up

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:22

My view is that the 006 used Fuel as ballast.

Where that car suddenly got the pace to be a front runner only to drop to the back of the field when it was discovered a year later is telling IMO.

Jenson was fast, but the car was illegal.

#36 PNSD

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:36

My view is that the 006 used Fuel as ballast.

Where that car suddenly got the pace to be a front runner only to drop to the back of the field when it was discovered a year later is telling IMO.

Jenson was fast, but the car was illegal.


You, me both know thats a FAR too simplistic way of looking at things.

Firstly, there was no proof of the car running underweight on track. They said they had run a set amount of liquids to be able to run the engine on track, it was a system used by many teams at the time, and if you remember right, when BAR were forced to change their fuel system, other teams quickly did too ;-)

Secondly, you say they dropped pace because of this issue.

So tell me, what happened to Ferrari from 2004 to 2005? They went from being a very dominant car and team to struggling for podiums.

The reason the BAR 007 was no good was because of the tyres, and the truth was the team did not know why they worked the 03 (in testing) and 04 michelins so well. They had no idea. The BAR 005 was quick straight away on michelins, quicker than it was on the tyres it was designed for :s.

The truth was, the BAR 006 was an amazing car, they just didnt know why! That showed with a up-down development curve throughout 2004, and in 2005 it took them the first 1/3 of the season to get their car right. Once it was Button's performances were simply stunning. Of course not being in a top car, it wasnt shown as much, but certain qualifying laps such as Canada and Silverstone were amazing. His Silverstone lap was claimed to be one of the greatest laps ever (from Gil de Ferran). He got strong point's finishes race after race, he had aggressive races such as Turkey... Button's 2005 season was pretty impressive if you ask me but you need to understand why first.

As for lack of wins in 2004, well there were imo only two places he could have one. Germany, and Brazil. Both of which he was let down by the Honda lump. An engine failure before qualifying for Germany, and an engine failure during the race in Brazil. I believe Button was ahead of JPM in Brazil when his engine went. Button had the legs on both the Mclaren, and Williams that day as he later went on to say but thats F1. I chose his Germany performance because his pit strategy, and qualifying lap were simply amazing. It would have been a race long battle with the Ferrari, but I see no reason why he could not have taken the fight to Schumacher that day.

#37 Rocket73

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:39

My view is that the 006 used Fuel as ballast.

Where that car suddenly got the pace to be a front runner only to drop to the back of the field when it was discovered a year later is telling IMO.

Jenson was fast, but the car was illegal.



You really think it made that much difference? I expect it was minimal.

IMHO i think Jenson is woefully underrated due to his 'wilderness' years at bar/honda. sure the BAR was quick for a bit and Jenson outqualified Schumacher in the f2004 once or twice didn't he?

But generally his cars have been crap - as soon as he gets a decent car in 2009 he romps it. And yet the BRAWN001 with less dominant over the season than the RB6 or most of schumachers ferrari's.

Hopefully we will see him at Macca for another 5 years and another championship or two. :up:

#38 fed up

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:45

You really think it made that much difference? I expect it was minimal.

IMHO i think Jenson is woefully underrated due to his 'wilderness' years at bar/honda. sure the BAR was quick for a bit and Jenson outqualified Schumacher in the f2004 once or twice didn't he?

But generally his cars have been crap - as soon as he gets a decent car in 2009 he romps it. And yet the BRAWN001 with less dominant over the season than the RB6 or most of schumachers ferrari's.

Hopefully we will see him at Macca for another 5 years and another championship or two. :up:


The only times he has romped it is when his car has had some kind of advantage compared to the rest:

The BG01 and the diffuser and the Bar 006 and the fuel issue.

He didn't fair that well against Ralf, Fisi or Lewis - although I accept he trounced the aging Jaques and performed well against Trulli and Sato

Above average driver - no more no less.

#39 Dunc

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:53

I know you shouldn't compare eras but I'm going to do so anyway.

Hamilton and Button at McLaren are like Clark and Hill at Lotus in the late 1960s. Hamilton is one of the greatest drivers, if not THE greatest, of his generation. Button is not great but is very, very,very, very good.

I think Macca should try and keep them together for at least the next five years.

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#40 Owen

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:55

I know you shouldn't compare eras but I'm going to do so anyway.

Hamilton and Button at McLaren are like Clark and Hill at Lotus in the late 1960s. Hamilton is one of the greatest drivers, if not THE greatest, of his generation. Button is not great but is very, very,very, very good.

I think Macca should try and keep them together for at least the next five years.

It appears to be heading that way. We'll see.

#41 4MEN

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:58

If he wins the championship this year again... very.

Both are typical examples of great drivers who had to wait too long before getting their hands on some decent material.


Excuse me? He made his debut in a Williams. Alonso did it in a Minardi. Vettel in a Toro Rosso...

#42 jjcale

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:59

Was re-watcing China 06 last night ... JB went from 7th to 4th in two laps right at the end of the race when it started to rain again... including a double overtake aided by backmarkers on the final lap... it was sensational.

I never really paid very close attention to JB before he started driving for Macca (I only really focus on how the macca drivers are doing in live races - and I might catch up with the others on a rewatch) so I missed that he is seriously talented.

When he gets it together he can be really special ... but most of the time he does not do full justice to his talent.

...I wonder if he has issues motivating himself when things are not set up nicely for him.

#43 Bonaventura

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 10:59

It appears to be heading that way. We'll see.

Don't see Lewis signing a long term contract like 5 years
For Button it's the best he could get for the rest of his career (so he would sign immediately)
but probably not for Lewis


#44 tkulla

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:07

Don't see Lewis signing a long term contract like 5 years
For Button it's the best he could get for the rest of his career (so he would sign immediately)
but probably not for Lewis


The grass is always greener... perhaps Lewis will want to "go out on his own" and leave his racing family, but it could be a tough lesson if he ends up watching Jenson notch up that 2nd WDC in a McLaren.


#45 Bonaventura

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:15

The grass is always greener... perhaps Lewis will want to "go out on his own" and leave his racing family, but it could be a tough lesson if he ends up watching Jenson notch up that 2nd WDC in a McLaren.

Lewis is at his peak of his career
no driver will sign a long term contract there
even with the new engine regulations for 2013
IMO Button won't get another offer like this from Macca from any other team.
So it's understandable that he is more than happy to stay there, while Lewis has to make some important considerations for his future
BTW if Lewis leaves after 2012 , McLaren will sign some other top driver Button won't be enough to fullfill their expectations

#46 undersquare

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:22

I do think McLaren suits JB incredibly well. Especially under Whitmarsh. The quality of the support, car preparation, the culture of loyalty within the team, all make a big difference to him.

I have a slight doubt about how he'd have got on with Ron, who tends to favour more aggressive drivers, but I wonder how his career would have gone if he'd come in at 22 instead of 20, say, done a couple of development years in Jordan perhaps, before joining McLaren, and stayed out of the clutches off the ruthless Frank and Flav, and the useless Nick Fry?


#47 bogi

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:29

I was never fan of Button, but after one year at McLaren Im massive fan now :up: He is very nice and honest bloke, and I wish him 10 more years at McLaren :D

#48 jjcale

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:34

Lewis is at his peak of his career
no driver will sign a long term contract there
even with the new engine regulations for 2013
IMO Button won't get another offer like this from Macca from any other team.
So it's understandable that he is more than happy to stay there, while Lewis has to make some important considerations for his future
BTW if Lewis leaves after 2012 , McLaren will sign some other top driver Button won't be enough to fullfill their expectations


Like who?

I dont think there are too many in F1 who are sure to beat JB in the same car.

[edit: think I misunderstood your post - but its a good question anyway - if LH leaves and Macca finally produces a rocket, who's gonna beat JB??]

Edited by jjcale, 28 April 2011 - 11:36.


#49 fed up

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:37

Like who?

I dont think there are too many in F1 who are sure to beat JB in the same car.


Rosberg would.
Kobayasi might
Buemi might
Hulkenberg might




#50 trogggy

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 11:40

Rosberg would.
Kobayasi might
Buemi might
Hulkenberg might

I'd love to see the reasoning for Hulkenberg beating him.
Would you'd be looking at their respective performances relative to RB?

Edited by trogggy, 28 April 2011 - 11:41.