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Jenson Button thread


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#2901 ermo

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:56

Great to see Jenson taking the fight to Lewis today. Great, clean racing between the two of them. Jenson slightly faster on the options, Lewis slightly faster on the primes. And of course, bloody shame that Lewis got taken out in turn one by the Hulk, but that's racing in changing conditions for you I guess.

It will be interesting to see how the 2013 specification Pirellis behave. From what I've read over the season, Lewis got on with the tyres a little bit better than Jenson and had an easier time keeping them in their operating window? Here's hoping Jenson will get a good handle on the tyres and his setups in 2013.

Speaking of 2013: Does anyone know if there will be the same kind of equality shake-ups next year as when Jenson arrived or is Jenson's side of the garage likely to stay unchanged?




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#2902 Lights

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:55

"I think I am the most experienced guy in F1 next year"

Blinked reading this thinking back to about 10 years ago when I started supporting.

#2903 sofarapartguy

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 13:38

"I think I am the most experienced guy in F1 next year"

Blinked reading this thinking back to about 10 years ago when I started supporting.


Erm... And what about Webber?

#2904 trogggy

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 13:44

Erm... And what about Webber?

He's not been in F1 as long, which is how I read it.

#2905 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 13:49

Erm... And what about Webber?


What about him? Jenson has driven two more seasons than Mark. You're confusing experience with age.

#2906 sofarapartguy

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 15:50

What about him? Jenson has driven two more seasons than Mark. You're confusing experience with age.

JB in 2000, and MW in 2001?



#2907 trogggy

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 15:55

JB in 2000, and MW in 2001?

MW started in '02 with Minardi, no?

#2908 maverick69

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 15:59

MW started in '02 with Minardi, no?


Yep.

Ironically Webber was test driver for Benetton in 2001 - and nearly replaced JB mid-season.

#2909 Fastcake

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 16:51

"I think I am the most experienced guy in F1 next year"

Blinked reading this thinking back to about 10 years ago when I started supporting.


Same here, funny to think that he is still relatively young and is now the most experienced active driver. Depending on how long Button wants to go on for, he seriously could beat Barrichello's record.

One thing I will say, I'm glad the Renault and Honda days are gone. Jesus did we have to wait so long for 2009 where he could finally show his talent :)

#2910 Burtros

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 17:12

Same here, funny to think that he is still relatively young and is now the most experienced active driver. Depending on how long Button wants to go on for, he seriously could beat Barrichello's record.

One thing I will say, I'm glad the Renault and Honda days are gone. Jesus did we have to wait so long for 2009 where he could finally show his talent :)


Buttons comments that he was the most experienced driver going into 2013 made me stop and think.

Heres a driver I followed long before he reached F1, the first driver I had taken an interest in at national level, I remember the shock and joy of getting the Williams driver for 2000, how unusual that kind of thing was back then. As if from nowhere, hes now the most experienced out there. Time flies.

Cheers for making me feel old JB:)



#2911 Peter Perfect

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 20:38

...

Speaking of 2013: Does anyone know if there will be the same kind of equality shake-ups next year as when Jenson arrived or is Jenson's side of the garage likely to stay unchanged?

Well, on Hamiltons side in 2010 Phil Prew was promoted in recognition of his good work to principle race engineer while on Kovalainen’s side Mark Slade left to go to Mercedes. So with both lead engineers moving on both teams were refreshed. For 2013 I'm guessing one of Mark Temple/Andy Latham will engineer Perez while Dave Robson will stay with Button.

#2912 Lazy

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:15

Button on 2013 tyres

#2913 tifosiMac

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:25

Button on 2013 tyres

To be fair he was confident about the tyres going in to 2012 after 2011's rather inconsistent tyre compounds. He can't really say anything negative at this point because like every other driver on the grid, he hasn't tested them yet.

#2914 ayali

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:41

He can't really say anything negative at this point because like every other driver on the grid, he hasn't tested them yet.


However, after testing Pirelli's 2013 development tyre during practice for the Brazilian Grand Prix, Button is confident he won't suffer a repeat next season.

"One thing that's very different with the tyre is how it works with warm-up," he said. "That's something we've struggled with and a lot of the teams have struggled with this year

Duh ??

Anyway if in 2013 the tyres do have a wider working range but will have high degradation I can see Jenson in contention from the get go with the McLaren


#2915 Sith

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:03

2013 can't come fast enough. Jenson will be up there fighting for the WDC.


Dalton007... Mclaren will struggle to build a car to challenge for the championship with the 2 drivers they have now... It will take a 'super-Newey' type designed car to fight for wins now that Lewis has departed...

Lets see if Jenson can beat Perez... That will be his 1st goal....

#2916 PARAZAR

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:10

Dalton007... Mclaren will struggle to build a car to challenge for the championship with the 2 drivers they have now... It will take a 'super-Newey' type designed car to fight for wins now that Lewis has departed...

Lets see if Jenson can beat Perez... That will be his 1st goal....


Jenson's never needed Lewis to win a race. What's so different now?

#2917 PARAZAR

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:12

http://www.guardian....,235485,00.html

Article about Jenson from 2000. Twelve years later and he's still around.

#2918 tifosiMac

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:14

Jenson's never needed Lewis to win a race. What's so different now?

Apart from inheriting the lead in the last race of course :p Thats just a joke ;)

#2919 Rocket73

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:04

Dalton007... Mclaren will struggle to build a car to challenge for the championship with the 2 drivers they have now... It will take a 'super-Newey' type designed car to fight for wins now that Lewis has departed...

Lets see if Jenson can beat Perez... That will be his 1st goal....


Although I think you are right to suggest that JB has to beat checo, it is certainly no foregone conclusion, (obviously that is not why you said it but that's life i suppose) you are however wrong to think that macca will struggle to build a develop a championship winning car with the drivers they have now...

you need to accept that lewis didn't help the team he hindered the team with his issues....


add on to that the fact that now they have two drivers with very similar styles i think it will be much easier to focus the development...

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#2920 Rocket73

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:06

Apart from inheriting the lead in the last race of course :p Thats just a joke ;)


lol let's talking about inheriting leads in the last race shall we? 45 second leads in fact.

#2921 Sith

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:12

No joke tifosiMac... It's fact...

Parazaar.... When the Mclaren was the BEST car, Jenson would be more closer to Lewis on the grid... Jenson is not what you would call a 'title contending driver'... We have seen over the past 3 seasons how Lewis has dragged that car up to near the front when it had no right to be there... Jenson gets his wins at the misfortune of others... (What ever case people try to make against this, keep in mind that we have never seen Jenson get pole position & wins week in, week out.. Something Lewis & Vettel & Alonso achieve over the past 3 seasons..)

I'm am not trying to 'flame bait' Jenson fans on here... Drivers like Jenson have more excuses as to why they're it getting the best from the car on any given w'end.. Where as top line drivers just get on with it... It is fanciful to think that Jenson will challenge for the title.. He has never looked like doing so in the 3 years @ Mclaren.. Where as Lewis as gone much further into the title chase, in cars that had no right to be in the hunt..

Races like Abu Dhabi, Singapore & a few others... Lewis was leading & Button was no-where... Have never seen Button running off into the distance, while Lewis is Langing down the field...

I don't think people rate Perez highly?? How good is he?? I think he's pretty good, but not great... Yet, I think he will beat Button hands down....

If I am wrong, I will come on this thread & gladly eat humble pie... Question is.. Will Button fans do the same???

Is it March 16 yet??;)

#2922 tifosiMac

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:17

lol let's talking about inheriting leads in the last race shall we? 45 second leads in fact.

Maybe the last 4 words of my post escaped you?;)

Be a good sport.

#2923 Sith

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:31

Although I think you are right to suggest that JB has to beat checo, it is certainly no foregone conclusion, (obviously that is not why you said it but that's life i suppose) you are however wrong to think that macca will struggle to build a develop a championship winning car with the drivers they have now...

you need to accept that lewis didn't help the team he hindered the team with his issues....


add on to that the fact that now they have two drivers with very similar styles i think it will be much easier to focus the development...


Let's deal with the facts...

Over the past 10 years, the 3 best drivers have all driven for Mclaren during that period.. (Kimi, Alonso, Lewis..) How many WDC did Mclaren win during that time???

1..

& that took some Lady Luck at the last corner of the last lap in Brazil 08'..

My point is... What makes anyone think on here that they will produce a title winning car now??

I have been a Mclaren fan since 1984... (I'm a Kimi fan now...) They're down fall is they still believe they are going to DOMINATE again... That is why they try to re-invent the wheel with their cars... They started off the year with the best car, & got back their again with it by seasons end...

If Lewis had stayed 1 more year, I would pick him for the title next year... They tried to sign Kimi.. Clear sign of their lack of faith in Jenson leading the team...



#2924 Sakae

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:21

Button about tire: open the operating zone; so, he said that, and I must applaud to him for that, as he voiced what others must have been thinking too, but were shy to say it, for they would be marked as complainers. (I actually had that on my list already in mid season just a line lower and right after "give a boot to Pirelli"). :D

#2925 Dalton007

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:34

Pirelli have said that the tyre temp window will be widened. It should be! Focus more on deg.

#2926 Dalton007

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:38

Dalton007... Mclaren will struggle to build a car to challenge for the championship with the 2 drivers they have now... It will take a 'super-Newey' type designed car to fight for wins now that Lewis has departed...

Lets see if Jenson can beat Perez... That will be his 1st goal....


The MAC was the quickest overall this season and with no major rule changes for next year, it's all going to be about refining their 2012 design. The team will have a different atmosphere next year as well - might make the difference. :up:

#2927 tifosiMac

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:46

The team will have a different atmosphere next year as well - might make the difference. :up:

Is that a more positive or negative atmosphere in your opinion? Seems like a strange choice of words.

#2928 Dalton007

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 11:58

Is that a more positive or negative atmosphere in your opinion? Seems like a strange choice of words.


It will be a happier atmosphere. It's obvious that Lewis wasn't liked by some in the team. Something was very off.

#2929 tifosiMac

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:03

It will be a happier atmosphere. It's obvious that Lewis wasn't liked by some in the team. Something was very off.

I knew Lewis wasn't happy but I hadn't seen much to suggest he was disliked within the team. I'm interested, what gave you this impression?

#2930 race addicted

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:14

Lewis might be quicker but Jenson is nicer! So with that bastard out next year, it'll be such a performance enhancing, happy environment. Yep.

Edited by race addicted, 05 December 2012 - 12:29.


#2931 tkulla

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:23

I knew Lewis wasn't happy but I hadn't seen much to suggest he was disliked within the team. I'm interested, what gave you this impression?


Common sense. Let's face it, tweeting that telemetry data was a fireable offense. Any other team member who did such a thing would have been escorted out by security on the spot. While on some level the mechanics and engineers accept this difference, it behooves the driver to be "one of the guys" and play by the same rules, otherwise a disconnect is inevitable.

Have to give it up for the boys though, because they were obviously very professional even after Lewis announced he was leaving.

Now back to Jenson... I'm loving the underestimation that I'm seeing on this board. I wouldn't have thought it possible for him to still play the underdog after the last four years but it's happening.


#2932 Rocket73

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:33

Maybe the last 4 words of my post escaped you?;)

Be a good sport.


ah... i see...sorry...read that wrong..my bad.

#2933 tifosiMac

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:36

Common sense. Let's face it, tweeting that telemetry data was a fireable offense. Any other team member who did such a thing would have been escorted out by security on the spot. While on some level the mechanics and engineers accept this difference, it behooves the driver to be "one of the guys" and play by the same rules, otherwise a disconnect is inevitable.

Have to give it up for the boys though, because they were obviously very professional even after Lewis announced he was leaving.

I don't share that view I'm afraid. Suggesting people would hate him after that particular incident is opinion rather than fact. It could easily be argued that it drove the team to strive to do better. The car improved and by the end of the season (even with valuable telemetry data *sarcasm*) no team managed to use it successfully. Button has been less than complimentary about the performance of his car after a bad race and if every engineer took offence at that, neither driver would be liked. I think to work in F1 you need a thicker skin than the majority of you fans.

#2934 jjcale

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:39

Common sense. Let's face it, tweeting that telemetry data was a fireable offense. Any other team member who did such a thing would have been escorted out by security on the spot. While on some level the mechanics and engineers accept this difference, it behooves the driver to be "one of the guys" and play by the same rules, otherwise a disconnect is inevitable.

Have to give it up for the boys though, because they were obviously very professional even after Lewis announced he was leaving.

Now back to Jenson... I'm loving the underestimation that I'm seeing on this board. I wouldn't have thought it possible for him to still play the underdog after the last four years but it's happening.


:lol: so professional that his car failed about half the time .... sometimes in nealry unheard of ways

Anyway ... JB starts next season joint favourite with SV. An underdog he is not....

#2935 Buttoneer

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 13:10

Back on topic please.

This is not the Jenson v Lewis thread, so please do not turn it into one.

#2936 PayasYouRace

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 14:19

No joke tifosiMac... It's fact...

Parazaar.... When the Mclaren was the BEST car, Jenson would be more closer to Lewis on the grid... Jenson is not what you would call a 'title contending driver'... We have seen over the past 3 seasons how Lewis has dragged that car up to near the front when it had no right to be there... Jenson gets his wins at the misfortune of others... (What ever case people try to make against this, keep in mind that we have never seen Jenson get pole position & wins week in, week out.. Something Lewis & Vettel & Alonso achieve over the past 3 seasons..)

I'm am not trying to 'flame bait' Jenson fans on here... Drivers like Jenson have more excuses as to why they're it getting the best from the car on any given w'end.. Where as top line drivers just get on with it... It is fanciful to think that Jenson will challenge for the title.. He has never looked like doing so in the 3 years @ Mclaren.. Where as Lewis as gone much further into the title chase, in cars that had no right to be in the hunt..

Races like Abu Dhabi, Singapore & a few others... Lewis was leading & Button was no-where... Have never seen Button running off into the distance, while Lewis is Langing down the field...

I don't think people rate Perez highly?? How good is he?? I think he's pretty good, but not great... Yet, I think he will beat Button hands down....

If I am wrong, I will come on this thread & gladly eat humble pie... Question is.. Will Button fans do the same???

Is it March 16 yet??;)


I thought it was 2012, not 2008. Wait 'til you see the first 7 races of "next" year.

#2937 Lazy

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 15:11

No joke tifosiMac... It's fact...

Parazaar.... When the Mclaren was the BEST car, Jenson would be more closer to Lewis on the grid... Jenson is not what you would call a 'title contending driver'... We have seen over the past 3 seasons how Lewis has dragged that car up to near the front when it had no right to be there... Jenson gets his wins at the misfortune of others... (What ever case people try to make against this, keep in mind that we have never seen Jenson get pole position & wins week in, week out.. Something Lewis & Vettel & Alonso achieve over the past 3 seasons..)


Lewis 10 wins
Fred 9 wins
Jenson 8 wins

Your talking nonsense.

#2938 tkulla

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 15:32

Jenson is hardly "equal favorite" for next year...

Odds on Sky bet WDC 2013:

Seb 5/4
Fernando 9/4
Jenson 9/1
Kimi 10/1
Lewis 14/1

I just may have to place a bet... :)

#2939 Dalton007

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 15:53

Jenson is hardly "equal favorite" for next year...

Odds on Sky bet WDC 2013:

Seb 5/4
Fernando 9/4
Jenson 9/1
Kimi 10/1
Lewis 14/1

I just may have to place a bet... :)



Me too, I fancy a flutter. :cat:

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#2940 jjcale

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 16:20

Jenson is hardly "equal favorite" for next year...

Odds on Sky bet WDC 2013:

Seb 5/4
Fernando 9/4
Jenson 9/1
Kimi 10/1
Lewis 14/1

I just may have to place a bet... :)


Those odds re rediculous .... he should be about where FA is.

Wait to see the cars first thought before betting .... might be less value - but its also less risk.

#2941 BillBald

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 17:19

Jenson is hardly "equal favorite" for next year...

Odds on Sky bet WDC 2013:

Seb 5/4
Fernando 9/4
Jenson 9/1
Kimi 10/1
Lewis 14/1

I just may have to place a bet... :)


If I don't take these odds, it will be because I don't have total confidence in the team's ability to turn their performance around re. reliability and strategy.

I'm quite sure that Jenson himself is worth the bet.



#2942 ThadGreen

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 17:36

Jenson is hardly "equal favorite" for next year...

Odds on Sky bet WDC 2013:

Seb 5/4
Fernando 9/4
Jenson 9/1
Kimi 10/1
Lewis 14/1

I just may have to place a bet... :)


If these odds are for winning the WDC in 2013 and are what you could get with any bookmaker then yes a wager on Jenson (and Kimi) seems reasonable and it should be done quickly because they, the odds, will likely change with all the money being wagered on him.

Please note I'm not encouraging gambling among the forum participants. :D :D

Edited by ThadGreen, 05 December 2012 - 17:37.


#2943 H2H

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 17:49


:eek: Those odds are quite incredible, I can not think that any bookmaker is offering such.

#2944 kpchelsea

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 20:30

Jenson's never needed Lewis to win a race. What's so different now?

Agreed Button will carry on winning races for McLaren

#2945 kpchelsea

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 20:33

Although I think you are right to suggest that JB has to beat checo, it is certainly no foregone conclusion, (obviously that is not why you said it but that's life i suppose) you are however wrong to think that macca will struggle to build a develop a championship winning car with the drivers they have now...

you need to accept that lewis didn't help the team he hindered the team with his issues....


add on to that the fact that now they have two drivers with very similar styles i think it will be much easier to focus the development...

The only driver that seemed to have issues this year was Button

#2946 ayali

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 21:12

Jenson is hardly "equal favorite" for next year...

Odds on Sky bet WDC 2013:

Seb 5/4
Fernando 9/4
Jenson 9/1
Kimi 10/1
Lewis 14/1

I just may have to place a bet... :)

WOW those are great odds

Would fancy a bet on Jenson (and Kimi) at those odds :up:


#2947 Buttoneer

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 23:32

Again; Lewis Hamilton has plenty enough threads dedicated to him. He is, however, off topic here. Please stick to the topic.

#2948 whitevisor

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:13

As per 2013... Button is in a fast car, and undoubtedly he will be the team leader. If the car is fast enough I can sorta see him getting ahead using the same tactics he used at Brawn, but I don't know how the dynamic of having competitors like Alonso, Vettel and kimi will play out in his title chances. He has never really had a head to head title clash before...

Edited by D.M.N., 06 December 2012 - 12:45.
remove "Exactly my thoughts too, lets keep Hamilton out of this thread. We won, but lets not rub it in guys. " - baiting and totally unnecessary


#2949 jjcale

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:58

Something occured to me while I was responding to a PM just now. Its not a perfect idea but its worth sharing:

The trend since 2009 has been for Macca to be cutting the gap in pace to Redbull (particularly if you treat 2011 as a kind of outlier). In 2012 Macca seems to have caught up to and slightly passed Redbull.... Shouldnt we now expect Macca to have clear advantage over Redbull in terms of pace? .... and would this not make JB the WDC favourite?


...like I said, its a sketch of an idea as its hard to say there is a clear trend with just a few years worth of results (and 2011 going against the "trend") but I am personally expecting winter testing to reveal Macca as more than a match for Redbull this time around.... but I am waiting to see the actual cars before making that call.

#2950 gricey1981

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:26

Something occured to me while I was responding to a PM just now. Its not a perfect idea but its worth sharing:

The trend since 2009 has been for Macca to be cutting the gap in pace to Redbull (particularly if you treat 2011 as a kind of outlier). In 2012 Macca seems to have caught up to and slightly passed Redbull.... Shouldnt we now expect Macca to have clear advantage over Redbull in terms of pace? .... and would this not make JB the WDC favourite?


...like I said, its a sketch of an idea as its hard to say there is a clear trend with just a few years worth of results (and 2011 going against the "trend") but I am personally expecting winter testing to reveal Macca as more than a match for Redbull this time around.... but I am waiting to see the actual cars before making that call.


I dunno. I think the red bull has been the car to beat since 09. They lost a lot this year with the banning of the ebd and flexi wings..... but i expect they will be up there come next year.