177 replies to this topic

[Dan333SP]

I know there are plenty of threads on this forum about what everyone's favorite engine sound is, but how about the worst? What makes you cringe and shake your head when you hear it rev up? Turbine engines? Le Mans diesels? Turbo F1 motors? The drone of a NASCAR? For me, it has to be the diesels. I appreciate their efficiency and power but with a sound that is drowned out by the noise you make as you turn the pages of your program, something important is lost from the sensation of speed as the cars fly by, even though the 908 is the fastest sportscar to have ever raced. In an F1 sense, the V10 Hart engine in the '99 Arrows was awful. For some reason it crackled with backfires every time the drivers lifted and it sounded as if it was on the verge of failure at all times, nothing refined about it.

Edited by Dan333SP, 27 April 2010 - 22:02.

[elansprint72]

Those LM diesels are dire but the worst ever race I heard was for Renault 21 turbos, a one-make affair which featured feature-less saloon cars. The exhausts were so quiet that you could literally hear the cars falling apart as they passed you.

[Tim Murray]

I haven't heard (or not heard, as it were) the diesels, so can't comment on them. For me it would have to be the F1 turbos - incredile to watch but not to listen to. The Renault engine made a particularly unpleasant harsh noise.

[Barry Boor]

For me it was the sound of our engine as it passed the pits at the Rothman's 50,000 when the cylinder liner had already split. Flat wasn't in it!

[wagons46]

Australians suffered the awful sounds of Mazda RX7's in the eighties. I don't think anything else comes close, apart from a one off special here and there.

Edited by wagons46, 28 April 2010 - 07:29.

[buckaluck]

Those LM diesels are dire but the worst ever race I heard was for Renault 21 turbos, a one-make affair which featured feature-less saloon cars. The exhausts were so quiet that you could literally hear the cars falling apart as they passed you.

The very early GT car Mazda rotary engines were just plain bad they were torcher at the Riverside 6 hour IMSA races of the mid to late 70's! The people in the stands had to wear earplugs l can't imagine what it was like for the drivers i'm sure they all have hearing problems from racing those cars. They popped banged belched backfired, I prayed for them to break so I could enjoy the race.

Buck

[URY914]

Mazda RX7's

I agree!

[Ian G]

How about the Honda Sports cars,S600-800,not entirely bad but some Women/Kids had to cover their ears as they squealed down the straight in Australia at least.

[RA Historian]

Hard to argue with the nomination of the Mazda rotary as the worst. They were painful indeed.

The most irritating F-1 engine, to me, was the BMW turbo 4 in the '85 Arrows. For whatever reason they were louder and more painful to the ears than the same engine in the Brabhams. I saw --and heard-- them at Montreal that year and it seemed that every time they went by they had to belch and backfire. My ear drums ached and throbbed, I had no ear plugs, and that is just one more reason why my hearing is far from what it should be today.
Tom

[Dan333SP]

Agreed on the Mazda, I've heard the 4 rotor version of the rotary in a Kudzu LMP at Sebring, and despite the cool glowing exhaust pipe at night I've never felt such pain in my ears from a car's noise, worse than an F1 V10 at 19,000 RPM by far. It just shakes your eardrums to pieces.

[seldo]

The Mazda RX7s were certainly very loud and quite painful to the ears. However interestingly, on one occassion at a race meeting I was taken to task by the officials because they claimed that my Alfa 2.5v6 exceeded the course's 108db limit and when I said "but what about the Mazdas" they agreed they sounded much louder, but said that for some unknown reason they did not trigger the db meter.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Ian G
How about the Honda Sports cars, S600-800, not entirely bad but some Women/Kids had to cover their ears as they squealed down the straight in Australia at least.

I thought they were great...

They sung out over top of all the other productions sports cars, the sound carried nicely, the gearboxes copped nice crisp changes, all very 'racy'.

On the other hand, a Subaru sounds shocking!

[RShaw]

Any Formula V would get my vote as the worst sounding engine. Someone once described an FV engine as "geese farting through grass".

[Lee Nicolle]

Rotarys without a doubt. Horrid noisy things and worse when they are idling, brap, brap, brap. As far as i am concerned the reason racecars had to grow mufflers in Australia.
Seldo I am with you, there seemed to be one rule for rotarys and the rest for real engines.
Arriving at Mallala you can still hear the rotarys from the town, about a mile away.And that is now!!
Noise killed them when those engines were popular in speedway midgets, the car is too small to carry the mufflers required!
Though the 20Bs are a lot better, noisy but sharp, a bit like a very sharp 6 cyl engine

[john aston]

Some turbo F1s sounded brilliant. The Ferrari, Alfa , Hart and BMWs all sounded very underwhelming- as if they were just household goods with the volume turned up to 11. But the Honda and the Renault V6s- especially when the latter was in the back of a Ligier were shatteringly loud and in a very good way indeed.
Love the comment above about Honda sportscars being loud enough to make women and kids cover their ears. Wish I had covered mine a bit more is all I can say- I am obviously not a real man...

[plannerpower]

" ... my Alfa 2.5v6 exceeded the course's 108db limit and when I said "but what about the Mazdas" they agreed they sounded much louder, but said that for some unknown reason they did not trigger the db meter.


This thread is about personal/subjective impressions of sound; not necessarily "scientific".

The rotaries, as I recall, had a "staccato" sound; a "pop" of noise, a (relative) silence, a "pop" of noise ....

This "bang, shhhh, bang, shhhh" happens in milliseconds; if the noise meter is set to "average", as is usual, it will only read the average of these two states.

Result; a low reading. The meter does not have an "annoyance factor" scale.

The meter would have used the "A-weighting" scale; one of my references summarises the A-scale in this way;

" ... a dBA weighting assumes a fairly quiet pure tone"..

So the steady tone of the Alfa would have been more likely to read high than the high-frequency pop-pop of the rotary; the average noise of the Alfa would have been higher.

The analog meter likely to have been used at this time is not good for reading "instantly"; it has a definite "lag" that averages "pop-pops" (possibly as a lower reading than steady tones) in any case.

It's difficult, if not impossible, to quantify "annoyance" in sound-level work but it's generally acknowledged that a "periodic" sound (rock-pick or pile-driver) is more annoying than a steady sound (truck/bulldozer engine or rock crusher).

[Kevan]

Agreed on the Mazda, I've heard the 4 rotor version of the rotary in a Kudzu LMP at Sebring, and despite the cool glowing exhaust pipe at night I've never felt such pain in my ears from a car's noise, worse than an F1 V10 at 19,000 RPM by far. It just shakes your eardrums to pieces.

Definitely the Mazdas- it must be 20 years since I last heard a Group C/IMSA Mazda in full flight, but I still swear I've never experienced a noise like it at a racetrack- like you say, you don't so much hear it as feel it

[Ray Bell]

For pain?

The Alfa GTA at full song...

[Henri Greuter]

I'm going to be slaughtered for it but still:


Detroit Iron.
Big block pushrod V8's .....


Indy '95 Brickyard 400: Was my headache a result of the heat or of 43 of those droning carburetted restricted contraptions?
Le Mans '97 the lone surviving Panoz kept me out of my well deserved little nap of sleep
Goodwood '98: I heard a Chapparal being warmed up. As if a UPS delivery truck had lost an exhaust....

The Mazda Rotaries were awful too (La mans '87, '97 and Rolex 24 '99 experience with them) but Detroit Iron gets my first vote.

Haven't heard the LMP diesels yet either but as V10 and V12's they cant bee too bad for starters.

Don't understand the bitching on the Turbo F1's. But that is because I enjoy the sound of 6'es to begin with and hearing the turbo's revv up was nice....



Henri

[Michael Ferner]

I hated the Yamaha 12-cylinder F1 engine, was it OX99? Dreadful...

[eldougo]

Hard to argue with the nomination of the Mazda rotary as the worst.

[Pedro1964]

Rotary Mazdas at Le Mans were actually painful. A truly HORRENDOUS racket. They were so bloody reliable too......

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Henri: Consider yourself slaughtered. I love the V-8's ala Detroit!

Michael: Quite disagree. I attended the Canadian GP in Montreal in '92 and just loved the shrill of the 5-valve Yama.

Without question, tho, my candidate for the 'worst' must go to the Mazda rotary. In a word, annoying.

[David Shaw]

I can imagine Pedro1964, waiting for the b@stard to die and it never did.

I also stick my hand up for the rotaries.




EDIT: Reference to poster.

Edited by David Shaw, 28 April 2010 - 11:00.

[roblegin]

I haven't heard (or not heard, as it were) the diesels, so can't comment on them. For me it would have to be the F1 turbos - incredile to watch but not to listen to. The Renault engine made a particularly unpleasant harsh noise.

The SAAB 900 turbo Challenge in the 1980s was a strange one. In the pit / paddock they were loud, rough and sounded OKish. But on the track? they were almost silent apart from the crunch of bodywork as they collided!

[Henri Greuter]

Henri: Consider yourself slaughtered. I love the V-8's ala Detroit!

I know I committed suicide with that comment.
I', bloody good in that over here anyway....

Henri

[Rosemayer]

The Techno flat 12 a real eardrum popper.

[bill p]

Mazda rotary engines in all their variations have my vote

[johnnythunders]

Mazda rotary engines in all their variations have my vote

My first race as a kid was the 1984 Silverstone 1000km and I still remember the BF Goodrich-sponsored Lola IMSA cars (I think they entered as a warm-up for Le Mans) limping past. It was like a trip to the dentist every single lap.

[Bjorn Kjer]

How can a noisy engine be the worst ? Isnt it about noise too ? Would you (some of you) really prefer races with nothing but Diesels ? That has absolutely nothing to do with racing imo. THEY are the worst , the DIESELS .

[RA Historian]

Bjorn, I figured you would come up with come Leyland or Kenworth transporter engine as being the worst!

Tom

[Doug Nye]

Positively the WORST sound is the suddenly flattening, hollow, off-notes, the momentary screech then thunderous clatter, then the popping and puttering into silence as the engine you have spent weeks or months helping build has just seized and shattered...big time as they say west of Land's End. And there's the gut-wrenching realisation that you haven't a hope of finding the cash to repair it...

It's the Team AFRICA syndrome, "Another F----- Rally (or "Race") I Can't Afford".

DCN

[Henri Greuter]

How can a noisy engine be the worst ? Isnt it about noise too ? Would you (some of you) really prefer races with nothing but Diesels ? That has absolutely nothing to do with racing imo. THEY are the worst , the DIESELS .

Now in which event did a car ever win because of its main advantange over any oppenent being more noisy?

If noise was the decisive factor in racing then the Novi V8 that produced 130 decibel would have won every Indianapolis race it participated in.

Racing is not about noise, but about speed and how to get the highest speeds.
Even if that means to go to an almost silent engine, like the Lotus 56 Turbines at Indy in 1968. You probably hate those even more intense then diesels. Funny enough, they are my most favoriite Lotus cars ever because of being so innovative in so many respects in one single car.

Racing is not about noise, it is about being the fastest, regardless the engine



henri

Edited by Henri Greuter, 28 April 2010 - 14:09.

[Rob]

The Williams CVT car. The constant pitch is very weird.

[Bjorn Kjer]

No need to sound patronizing Henri , as is often the case on threads some do not read the posts properly , neither the thread titles .
If you look again , I answered the thread title , I did not state , but put up questions , and when stating I wrote imo!
I know what racing is about , been there 50 years!

[La Sarthe]

I don't know why - it must be the physiology of my ear drums or something, but I've always found the exhaust note of the Porsche 911GT3-R/RS/RSR series to be both dull and painful. Oddly enough I never had any problems with the Le Mans Maxda rotaries, although they were certainly shrill.

Peter

[VAR1016]

There cannot be any sound (from a car at least) much louder and more painful than that of a V16 BRM; but I'd travel quite a way to hear one running (properly).

As for the worst sound, well I nominate the tedious drone of a Formula Ford race.

Edited by VAR1016, 29 April 2010 - 16:11.

[john aston]

Formula Fords might not sound great but the racing is as good as it gets; Detroit V8s sound just wonderful- fire up a T70 and I am in hog heaven.I loved the Mazdas too- loud is good in my world.And whilst the Tecno was ...ermm ....slow I rather liked that Flat 12 complex harmony

[ExFlagMan]

There cannot be much louder and more painful than a V16 BRM; but I'd travel quite a way to hear one running (properly).

As for the worst sound, well I nominate the tedious drone of a Formula Ford race.

Most FF races I've watched the engine noise was drowned out by the tyre squeal and contact noise .

Worst engine sound I've heard was probably in the early 70's at an Oulton Park Easter meeting practice day, the first session on a really cold crisp Thursday morning - Dave Brodie's 'Run Baby Run' was the first car out for the touring car session - for 9/10ths of the lap it was one of the best engine sounds going - you could hear it all round the circuit from where I was at Druids. Brodie was really giving it everything it had - unfortunatly when it got to Deer Leap the engine let go at full chat and that had to be one of the worst engine sounds ever - BDA at full chat followed by a bang and then silence - I believe it left oil-stains on the Deer Leap Observers box!

[Macca]

Regarding the relationship between noise and performance (if any), the Lancia/Ferrari D50 is unusually loud; on footage of the famous 1957 German GP duel the 8-megaphone version can be heard. Tony Vandervell famously told Ferrari the power should come through the tyres, not the exhausts..........

Not so much unpleasant noises as ones that just don't sound 'right'; at the Goodwood Revival the highly-tuned Fords and Chevs in Cobras and Corvettes sometimes have a hard metal-on-metal sound that sets my fillings off, while the BRM H16 that I've seen a couple of times at the Festival of Speed tends to remind me of a bucket of bolts being shaken.

Paul M

[bill moffat]

Mazda rotaries at Le Mans were pretty offensive but over the years they induced a degree of deafness and tinnitus that made them slightly more bearable.

My award goes to the Rotorvic in its Goodwood-debut guise. How could a 6-engined V12 sound so awful ? To be fair it was running with an "exhaust" rather than an "exhaust system" - I guess it now sounds a lot sweeter and probably produces a few more bhp...

[antonvrs]

Worst sounding race car I've ever heard was Dan Odenborg's H-modified special which ran here on the west coast of the USA in the late '60s. It was basically a go-kart powered by a Mercury3 cylinder 2-stroke outboard motor with 3 open megaphones. Horribly loud and very quick.
Worst sounding motor vehicle goes to those obnoxious f...ing Hardly Ablesons(Harleys) that abound here in LA that sound like a 110 db wet horse fart.
Anton

[RA Historian]

Worst sounding race car I've ever heard was Dan Odenborg's H-modified special which ran here on the west coast of the USA in the late '60s.

Am I right in recalling that this was called the "Thundermug Special"?
Tom

[antonvrs]

Am I right in recalling that this was called the "Thundermug Special"?
Tom

No, the Thundermug was built by Dale Tholen(IIRC) and ran some kind of European 2-stroke twin. Very attractive and well built car.
I suppose I should look it up in the Specials book but I'm too lazy at the moment.
Anton

[SADBATCCM]

Kim Mathers twin engine scirocco from the mid 80s!!

[Bob Riebe]

Now in which event did a car ever win because of its main advantange over any oppenent being more noisy?

If noise was the decisive factor in racing then the Novi V8 that produced 130 decibel would have won every Indianapolis race it participated in.

Racing is not about noise, but about speed and how to get the highest speeds.
Even if that means to go to an almost silent engine, like the Lotus 56 Turbines at Indy in 1968. You probably hate those even more intense then diesels. Funny enough, they are my most favoriite Lotus cars ever because of being so innovative in so many respects in one single car.

Racing is not about noise, it is about being the fastest, regardless the engine
henri

Racing is about the "big show" and sound is a vital part of the show for the vast majority of attendees.

The worst I heard was the seven liter Ferrari Can-Am car. horridly boring.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 29 April 2010 - 07:05.

[Dan333SP]

Really? I've heard that car at historic races... it might not be an F1 V12, but it sounds like a bassier version of the 512 sportscar which is a very nice noise to me. Were you expecting better maybe? Can't imagine any Ferrari V12 would ever be on a "worst sound" list...

[BrendanMcF]

Kim Mathers twin engine scirocco from the mid 80s!!

That sounded worse from the inside... All screaming supercharger and scuttle shake ;)

[Chezrome]

The winning Audi-Diesel at Le Mans... coming out of Tertre Rouge, farting about a thousand times before it mercifully disappeared down the Mulsanne Straight... the sight, the sound... as if you watched historic footage of Maria Callas in La Boheme and right at the high note a fat guy walks up stage and starts belching as loud as he can.

[RCH]

I'm surprised Mazda rotaries appear on this thread so often. I'll bore you now with one of my all time motor racing moments which will stay (and probably get more and more exagerated) in my brain forever.

Le Mans 1990, Mulsanne Corner, it has just got dark. One of those strange moments when everything goes (comparitively) quiet. Out along the straight the sound of a Mazda can be heard, you can clearly hear it negotiating the second of the newly installed chicanes and then the noise grows and grows until it appears in sight over the brow, all those Mazdaesque noises; popping, banging, wailing, screaming and the odd sudden silences all seemingly at the same time as it slows for the bend. Then the visual effect; great gobs of flame from the exhausts, brakes glowing white hot. You could almost imagine some monster from hell arriving....

I was never a fan of the Mazdas but how anyone could include them on a list of the worst sounding cars I'll never understand!

Don't know about the worst sound but the most disappointing was at my first F1 race, a Silverstone International Trophy (71/72?). Opening warm up lap; a gaggle of F1s went past sounding just like they should, then came a couple of F5000s, didn't sound right at all. The V8 rumble from a Camaro or a Mustang? Fine. from a single seater? No way. Then within seconds the most incredible sound I have ever heard in my life, a Matra V12.