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Front wheel drive


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#1 D-Type

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 12:52

A question on another forum has set me thinking about front wheel drive GP cars.

I have found

1907 Christie
1927 Alvis that didn't start a GP
1928 Cooper-Miller in the Italian GP
1935 Trossi Monaco that never raced
1955 DB that ran at Pau

Does anyone know of any more?

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#2 macoran

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 12:59

1926 Itala GP
193. Chevallier Bol d'Or

If they count....

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 14:51

1961 Ferguson :)

#4 Robin Fairservice

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 15:09

1961 Ferguson :)

The Ferguson was Four Wheel Drive.

There were some Front Wheel Drive Millers at Indy in the thrities,but then they don't come under the title of this thread.

#5 David McKinney

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 16:36

The Ferguson was Four Wheel Drive.

So it didn't have front-wheel drive as well as rear?


#6 Allan Lupton

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 18:14

So it didn't have front-wheel drive as well as rear?

Of course but the thread title (and Duncan's question) implies front drive only.
As I wrote elsewhere, front-drive is inherently unsatisfactory for cars with high (or even good) performance and Walter Christie's car was the nearest a FWD car has got to being successful in GP racing as his cars were built at a time when the whole business of racing car design was in its early stages.

#7 David McKinney

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 19:49

Of course but the thread title (and Duncan's question) implies front drive only.

I realise that
That's why I put the smiley after the entry
It was a joke
Geddit?


#8 Giraffe

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 19:52

It was a joke
Geddit?


Some people have no sense of humour round here these days. :well:


#9 D-Type

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 21:52

Some people have no sense of humour round here these days. :well:

Woof!

#10 D-Type

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 21:58

Of course but the thread title (and Duncan's question) implies front drive only.
As I wrote elsewhere, front-drive is inherently unsatisfactory for cars with high (or even good) performance and Walter Christie's car was the nearest a FWD car has got to being successful in GP racing as his cars were built at a time when the whole business of racing car design was in its early stages.

The main success of the Christie was that it was spectacular on loose surfaces and was a useful member of the Barney Oldfield "Motor racing show" at the state fairgrounds as a foil to Barney's Blitzen Benz. A similar role to the Washington Generals or the New York Nationals playing the Harlem globetrotters

#11 Gene

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 22:21

Just thought I'd add, one of the Dodge IMSA GTU cars raced by Full Time Racing the late 80s was FWD.
The second took advantage of the IMSA rule that a car produced as FWD by the manufacturer could have its motor rotated 90 deg and converted to RWD.

#12 Manfred Cubenoggin

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 02:25

Moderately O/T. OK, OK...maybe a lot O/T. :drunk:

Dig out your old Road & Track magazines, fellas, and look up the German GP at the Ring circa 1963-64. I distinctly recall a passage from correspondant, Henry Manney III, commenting on sector times through the Karousel(sic)for the GP cars of the day and how a 2-cycle FWD DKW or Auto Union puddle-jumper beat the best of them. He speculated, no doubt tongue in cheek, as to whether FWD was the coming thing.

Edit: How the deuce could I remember that from 45+ years ago and not recall what I had for breakfast this morning? :)

Edited by Manfred Cubenoggin, 02 May 2010 - 02:28.


#13 Giraffe

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 07:09

Edit: How the deuce could I remember that from 45+ years ago and not recall what I had for breakfast this morning? :)


This is a rather common affliction from which this particular forum benifits greatly, Manfred! :cat:


#14 Allan Lupton

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 08:21

Dig out your old Road & Track magazines, fellas, and look up the German GP at the Ring circa 1963-64. I distinctly recall a passage from correspondant, Henry Manney III, commenting on sector times through the Karousel(sic)for the GP cars of the day and how a 2-cycle FWD DKW or Auto Union puddle-jumper beat the best of them. He speculated, no doubt tongue in cheek, as to whether FWD was the coming thing.

Not sure if someone who's the third try at a simple name would have his own opinions. :D
The Karussell is a special case, being a banked section which can be taken flat-out in a low-powered touring car with good ground-clearance but a 1½ litre racing car set up to work well on all the other corners might have to take care not to ground under the extra g at the Karussell. If the owner of the DKW lived within the 'Ring he'd have plenty of practice and know just how it could be done - I remember chasing an NSU Prinz round there in 1959: I was gaining on him fast until the Karussell. Saw the car later in a driveway in Nűrburg village . . .

Edited by Allan Lupton, 02 May 2010 - 08:27.


#15 D-Type

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 12:17

I later years the Porsche 935s and other faster cars were too wide to fit into what was really the drainage ditch and had to go round the outside of the Karousell (Higham) or Karrussell (Lang) or Karussel (FIA yellow book and Cimarosti) - or should there be an uhmlaut in there somewhere/ .

#16 David McKinney

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 13:10

...or Karussell according to Google Translate and, more importantly, to my big Collins G/E dictionary

#17 Allan Lupton

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 13:27

...or Karussell according to Google Translate and, more importantly, to my big Collins G/E dictionary

and Thora Hornung's book celebrating the 'Ring's half-century and my 1929 Langenscheidt's pocket dictionary.
No umlaut anywhere, Duncan.

#18 D-Type

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 17:42

And putting the variants into Gougle as Nurburgring Kar~ gives the following hits:
Karussell 149 000
Carousel 114 000
Karussel 42 600
Karousel 2260
Karrussell 1 320
Karousell 366

So we have a clear winner


Now, back to front wheel drive ...