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Septre V8 - who knows about it?


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#1 Quixotic

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 04:50

I saw this car advertised on my105.com and wondered what it was. It kind of looks like a F5000, but with a price tag of only $35,000 AUD it coupld not possibly be. It has an alloy Monocoque, and a Leyland V8 engine.

The only thing I could find for it were some Hillclimb results, where the car seems to have been quite successful. No other results though.

Pictures are located here at this link:

http://www.my105.com...ed.asp?id=15116

Regardless of what it is. It looks to be a cool car.

Regards,


Quixotic

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#2 Quixotic

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 04:51

Oops..... the car is actually a Sceptre........ I missed ut a C there.

#3 Quixotic

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 06:32

I just found a reference to a Yank bloke named Ken Holden, who was supposedly the man behind the Sceptre racing cars. I also found a reference to a Septre being raced by an American Fella called Grable during the Tasman Series in 1970.

Ray Bell...... You are the Encyclopedestrian here. Can you shed any light on the subject?

Thaks,

Quixotic

#4 David McKinney

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 07:09

I don't think that's the Holden/Grable Sceptre - looks too modern for a 1968 car

A little bell is telling me the name was used for the Franklen-Palliser/Mildren-Chevrolet/Wortmeyer SCV in a later life, but I might be wildly out

I really should learn to leave Australian matters to our Australian experts :)

#5 Giraffe

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 07:17

Wikipedia says that the car won the CAMS NSW Hillclimb Championship in 1979 in the hands of Ron Woodbridge and also in 1983 & 84 driven by Warren Brown.

This is a link to the CAMA NSW website results page: http://www.hillclimb.../champions.html

A search of TNF does not throw up any other activities undertaken by this car, but you never know............

Edited by Giraffe, 02 May 2010 - 07:38.


#6 john medley

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 09:04

I am no expert in all this, but I did meet Newcastle's Warren Brown once or twice when he had the Sceptre V8, it was/is a pretty serious beast, I suspect David McKinney is correct(ie I suspect it started life as the Franklen for Alec Mildren etc... Kevin Bartlett can undoubtedly give us more on this when he gets back from Eastern Creek), but I reckon Newcastle's Brian Lear who was after all The NSW Hillclimb Club can tell us even more when HE gets back from Eastern Creek

Just be very careful. Those lovely Novocastrians dont really understand that they are quaintly different to the rest of us, and really, anyone from the lower Hunter Valley is tarred with the same brush. eg one day I was at a party talking to Warren Brown when other Novocastrians joined in wanting to tell Great Stories of Newcastle hillclimb cars including the Molden ( a Mini with a grey Holden inline 6, which fell over a cliff at King Edward Park) and the Jenwin Jaguar, the centrepiece of that story being the telephone advice from an obscure phone number that the person called would be able to reply between the hours of 7.15 and 7.30 pm, and it turned out that the Jenwin builder was in a prison in Perth. Elegance is not your Newcastle style

Step forward, RB Lear

#7 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 12:33

I'd be surprised if it's the ex-Mildren device...

And I have been surprised before, so it's not impossible.

The chassis doesn't look like it's that car at all, too square, and the dating (1971) of the car would be wrong in one way or another.

Dating it from 1971, should it be the Mildren, would be wrong as it was clearly built during 1970. Dating it from 1971, if it was built with parts from the Mildren, would be wrong because the Mildren was intact for a number of years after its early racing.

I also think the chassis in the advertisement pictures is too narrow.

#8 Quixotic

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 13:04

I'd be surprised if it's the ex-Mildren device...

And I have been surprised before, so it's not impossible.

The chassis doesn't look like it's that car at all, too square, and the dating (1971) of the car would be wrong in one way or another.

Dating it from 1971, should it be the Mildren, would be wrong as it was clearly built during 1970. Dating it from 1971, if it was built with parts from the Mildren, would be wrong because the Mildren was intact for a number of years after its early racing.

I also think the chassis in the advertisement pictures is too narrow.



Hmmmmmm I
wonder if it was ever a circuit car? It really looks as though it was

#9 Dale Harvey

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 22:19

This car was definately not related to the Mildren F5000. I can't remember its origins but I think it has always been mainly a hillclimb car. Erol Richardson tells me that the Mildren F5000 is still with the Wortmeyer family.
Dale.

#10 gouldo

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 23:16

From my memory, the car was built by Ron Woodbridge for hillclimbing. Ran originally in a a shade of french blue, and pretty similar body to whats advertised. It ran a Rover V8 - not sure if it were the 3.5 or 4.4, but I do suspect the 4.4. Ran ran it for a few years, then sold it.

Warren Brown from Newcastle owned the vehicle, and ran the state hillclimb series and won it a few times as well. It also won 1st outright the Australian Hillclimb Championships (1984 seems right) so it does have some very good history. It did have a lot of minor hits over the years when Warren ran it - nothing major, just the odd wheel & front wing being crumpled.

The vehicle has been in Bathurst for quite some time now and still gets run in supersprints & local hillclimbs. I don't know if it would be eligibale for an historic log book for circuit racing - Cams may issue an historic hillclimb log book - I don't know why there is a difference, an historic car is an historic car.

But, this is a very quick car, was always very very well presented & looked great. I think for 35k, it's pretty good value.

#11 john medley

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 07:34

Gentlemen
Thank you for correcting me. Thank you for the weekend, too. Nice performance Brad

#12 gouldo

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 09:50

Gentlemen
Thank you for correcting me. Thank you for the weekend, too. Nice performance Brad



Thanks John. I had a blast. Just need an extra 30 hp to keep those 15's & holden engined things behind me on the straights....

#13 Monaro

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 12:28

Hmmmmmm I
wonder if it was ever a circuit car? It really looks as though it was

The Sceptre was used manly as a circuit car from 1988 to 1995.The car has been in storage since 1995 and restored last year.Prior to 1988 used as a hill climb car.

#14 Monaro

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 12:32

From my memory, the car was built by Ron Woodbridge for hillclimbing. Ran originally in a a shade of french blue, and pretty similar body to whats advertised. It ran a Rover V8 - not sure if it were the 3.5 or 4.4, but I do suspect the 4.4. Ran ran it for a few years, then sold it.

Warren Brown from Newcastle owned the vehicle, and ran the state hillclimb series and won it a few times as well. It also won 1st outright the Australian Hillclimb Championships (1984 seems right) so it does have some very good history. It did have a lot of minor hits over the years when Warren ran it - nothing major, just the odd wheel & front wing being crumpled.

The vehicle has been in Bathurst for quite some time now and still gets run in supersprints & local hillclimbs. I don't know if it would be eligibale for an historic log book for circuit racing - Cams may issue an historic hillclimb log book - I don't know why there is a difference, an historic car is an historic car.

But, this is a very quick car, was always very very well presented & looked great. I think for 35k, it's pretty good value.

The body on the car is the original which is off a Mclaren M10A.The car has been in Bathurst since 1988.

#15 Monaro

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Posted 03 May 2010 - 12:37

I saw this car advertised on my105.com and wondered what it was. It kind of looks like a F5000, but with a price tag of only $35,000 AUD it coupld not possibly be. It has an alloy Monocoque, and a Leyland V8 engine.

The only thing I could find for it were some Hillclimb results, where the car seems to have been quite successful. No other results though.

Pictures are located here at this link:

http://www.my105.com...ed.asp?id=15116

Regardless of what it is. It looks to be a cool car.

Regards,


Quixotic

The car was used in supersprints were it was just about unbeatable.Never beaten to the first corner at Oran Park.

#16 Quixotic

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 01:35

The car was used in supersprints were it was just about unbeatable.Never beaten to the first corner at Oran Park.



I wonder if CAMS would consider giving this car a Historic Log Book? It would certainly improve it's intrinsic value. It would be bloody competetive as well.

Hmmmmmmm




#17 gouldo

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 08:54

I wonder if CAMS would consider giving this car a Historic Log Book? It would certainly improve it's intrinsic value. It would be bloody competetive as well.

Hmmmmmmm



Dunno. Cams issued an historic hillclimb log book only to Ron Hay, who built the Bowin Hay & his S/C hay honda. The odd thing is, is that the early hillclimb cars from the 50's & 60's - have had historic log books issued yet they were only hillclimb cars & not circuit cars.

It certainly deserves an historic log book.



#18 Catalina Park

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 09:52

The car was used in supersprints were it was just about unbeatable.Never beaten to the first corner at Oran Park.

I beat it to the first corner at Oran Park in 88. :wave:
Then it passed me like a rocket out of the esses and then it threw oil all over my visor as I was approaching Suttons. ):
How did it run at Supersprints without mirrors anyway? :lol: :lol: :lol:

#19 Quixotic

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 03:24

still looking for info on this cars circuit racing forays. No luck yet. I spoke to CAMS who said that without proof that it raced on circuits, it would not be eligible for a historic log book......


I know someone who would buy the car, but only if it had a historic COD.

Catch 22.



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#20 GD66

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 04:20

[quote name='Quixotic' date='May 1 2010, 22:32' post='4320176']
I just found a reference to a Yank bloke named Ken Holden, who was supposedly the man behind the Sceptre racing cars. I also found a reference to a Septre being raced by an American Fella called Grable during the Tasman Series in 1970.



That car was actually a SPECTRE HR1. Unorthodox build, and I never heard of Holden again. He was an unusual character, but the car, in Grable's hands, worked well to win the first Formula A race at Bay Park in December 1968.


#21 Monaro

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 07:37

still looking for info on this cars circuit racing forays. No luck yet. I spoke to CAMS who said that without proof that it raced on circuits, it would not be eligible for a historic log book......


I know someone who would buy the car, but only if it had a historic COD.

Catch 22.

Considering the car won 2 CAMS State championships one in 1990 and one in 1994 on circuits what more proof would they want or don't they keep records. :well: :well:

#22 Quixotic

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 09:52

Considering the car won 2 CAMS State championships one in 1990 and one in 1994 on circuits what more proof would they want or don't they keep records. :well: :well:



Ahhhh but unless it has a circuit racing history, they will not issue it with a historic circuit racing COD

#23 Monaro

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 08:15

Ahhhh but unless it has a circuit racing history, they will not issue it with a historic circuit racing COD

Surely Eastern Creek, Amaroo Park, Oran Park are circuits and it was CAMS state championships and CAMS does have the perpetual trophy :confused: :confused:

#24 Quixotic

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 09:18

Surely Eastern Creek, Amaroo Park, Oran Park are circuits and it was CAMS state championships and CAMS does have the perpetual trophy :confused: :confused:



But they say the car was not a circuit racing car, merely a hillclimb car.........

Pity

#25 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 20:50

But they say the car was not a circuit racing car, merely a hillclimb car.........

Pity


I remember the Sceptre well and competed against it many times during the 1970's and early 80's. It was always a force to be reckoned with particularly when in the hands of Warren Brown and the previous owner, multiple Australian Hillclimb Champion, Peter Gumley. The current body work is generally similar to that it had 'in period' but is not quite right and the large air box in particular is a later addition.

There are many precedents for issue by CAMS of a C of D for car with a history confined to hillclimb events one of the most notable examples being the Brabham Buick owned by Les Wright. Such documents carry a 'hillclimb only' restriction only where the car does not comply with regulations relevant to circuit events. Ron Hay's Hay Honda is such a case as it does not meet the minimum bodywork requirements applicable to circuit events.

#26 Quixotic

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 00:18

I remember the Sceptre well and competed against it many times during the 1970's and early 80's. It was always a force to be reckoned with particularly when in the hands of Warren Brown and the previous owner, multiple Australian Hillclimb Champion, Peter Gumley. The current body work is generally similar to that it had 'in period' but is not quite right and the large air box in particular is a later addition.

There are many precedents for issue by CAMS of a C of D for car with a history confined to hillclimb events one of the most notable examples being the Brabham Buick owned by Les Wright. Such documents carry a 'hillclimb only' restriction only where the car does not comply with regulations relevant to circuit events. Ron Hay's Hay Honda is such a case as it does not meet the minimum bodywork requirements applicable to circuit events.


The only sticking point is for it to be eligible for a group Q COA it must have a racing history. CAMS do not consider Hillclimbing to be racing. I'm sure that in all other respects it would meet the regulations required for Group Q, but the fact remains that the car does not have a Circuit racing history.

Edited by Quixotic, 29 November 2010 - 00:19.


#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 02:10

What Paul seems to be saying here, and I think it's fairly clear...

You have a case. The precedent, for instance, of the Brabham Buick stands on your side. If the car lives up to the circuit racing regulations, apply for your C of D and then fight them for it with that kind of information backing up your claim.

#28 Paul Hamilton

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 03:48

The only sticking point is for it to be eligible for a group Q COA it must have a racing history. CAMS do not consider Hillclimbing to be racing. I'm sure that in all other respects it would meet the regulations required for Group Q, but the fact remains that the car does not have a Circuit racing history.


Sorry, but that is simply not correct. The CAMS 5th Category regulations require a competition history not a racing history and, as I have said there are many precedents for issue of a C of D to cars with out anything more than a history of hillclimb or sprint event competition. The Brabham Buick is one notable example and the Hay Honda is another.

#29 Quixotic

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 05:00

Sorry, but that is simply not correct. The CAMS 5th Category regulations require a competition history not a racing history and, as I have said there are many precedents for issue of a C of D to cars with out anything more than a history of hillclimb or sprint event competition. The Brabham Buick is one notable example and the Hay Honda is another.



Thanks for that. I'll go and push some more buttons at CAMS.

The Secptre would be a fairly awsome Group Q car don't you think????

#30 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 08:21

The Sceptre should be very good on tight circuits especially, I would think...

Winton, Mallala, the short circuit that's now been superseded at Morgan Park.

#31 Monaro

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:19

I remember the Sceptre well and competed against it many times during the 1970's and early 80's. It was always a force to be reckoned with particularly when in the hands of Warren Brown and the previous owner, multiple Australian Hillclimb Champion, Peter Gumley. The current body work is generally similar to that it had 'in period' but is not quite right and the large air box in particular is a later addition.

There are many precedents for issue by CAMS of a C of D for car with a history confined to hillclimb events one of the most notable examples being the Brabham Buick owned by Les Wright. Such documents carry a 'hillclimb only' restriction only where the car does not comply with regulations relevant to circuit events. Ron Hay's Hay Honda is such a case as it does not meet the minimum bodywork requirements applicable to circuit events.

The body is the original Mclaren M10A, when hillclimbed the front was cut off and a full width front wing added, when restored original front was reattached the air box was fitted in 1986.

#32 Monaro

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:25

The Sceptre should be very good on tight circuits especially, I would think...

Winton, Mallala, the short circuit that's now been superseded at Morgan Park.

Was always quick around all circuits even with the low hillclimb gearing and could run any circuit using top gear only, a lot like driving a auto no gear changes.

#33 Monaro

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Posted 29 November 2010 - 11:33

Group Q - Historic Racing and Sports Racing Cars
This group caters for racing and sports racing cars with a competition history established between 1st January 1970 and 31st December 1977, and for cars excluded from classification in earlier historic groups because of the nature of the aerodynamic devices with which they are fitted.
This quote is from the CAMS website and the Sceptre has plenty of competative history and most of it winning