101 replies to this topic

[sheppane]

Although not motor racing in it's strictest sense, I have noticed over the last 18 months that a number of TNF's have shown more than a passing interest in the exploits of Donald Campbell and his Bluebird record breakers. I thought it might be useful to have a dedicated topic. Let me kick things off with a few shot's of Donald Campbell's two Bluebird's. The K7 Hydroplane and the CN7 turbine car.
Enjoy, and please feel free to add images and discussion points.

Bluebird K7 in September 1958 at Coniston



K7 at Coniston in 1957



CN7 at Lake Eyre in 1963



CN7 at Goodwood in July 1960

Edited by sheppane, 19 May 2010 - 11:36.

[Pullman99]

Although not motor racing in it's strictest sense, I have noticed over the last 18 months that a number of TNF's have shown more than a passing interest in the exploits of Donald Campbell and his Bluebird record breakers. I thought it might be useful to have a dedicated topic. Let me kick things off with a few shot's of Donald Campbell's two Bluebird's. The K7 Hydroplane and the CN7 turbine car. Enjoy, and please feel free to add images and discussion points.

Truly wonderful and evocative pics. Thank you so much for sharing them.

[werks prototype]

I didn't realise for a while, that the actual construction of the Bluebird-Proteus was governed by regulations laid down by the FIA. Can I ask what your specific interest is sheppane, were you in any way attached to the program? (You never know on this board)

[Tony Matthews]

...were you in any way attached to the program?

If he was, it must have been in the 'Boy Wonder' category!

[arttidesco]

Thanks for sharing these evocative pics sheppane.

Any one know what was happening with K7's tail fin between 1957 and 1958 in the pics above ?

[f1steveuk]

Good idea Neil, wonder why I didn't think of it!

The shot of CN7 at Goodwood, is that Ray Govier leaning the on the railing???

[f1steveuk]

Thanks for sharing these evocative pics sheppane.

Any one know what was happening with K7's tail fin between 1957 and 1958 in the pics above ?

The 57 pic is K7 very much as she ran at Lake Mead, when no tailfin was installed. The brackets on top are either a camera mount, or for the early test braking 'chute. 1958 was the first year K7 ran a tailfin for stabilty as well as fairing in the tested, but not run in anger parachute. That's from memory, so the usual disclaimers apply! I haven't got a copy of my own book on this, but maybe someone could check for me.

[sheppane]

I didn't realise for a while, that the actual construction of the Bluebird-Proteus was governed by regulations laid down by the FIA. Can I ask what your specific interest is sheppane, were you in any way attached to the program? (You never know on this board)

I was not attached to the program, Indeed I was only 9 months old when Campbell was killed, but it has been my abiding interest / obsession since i was about 7 years old. CN7 is shortly to be the subject of a book by Donald Stevens (Norris Bros) published by Veloce. It should be a good read.





The FIA regulations CN7 complied with were the fact that it was wheel driven. (At the time, pure thrust jetcars were not within the rules) This was changed in September 64 after CN7 took the LSR at 403.10 mph. Due to very poor track conditions, CN7 was not able to set a record close to her potential, although during her last run, she peaked at over 440 mph, and covered the last 1/3rd of the measured mile at 429 mph. Given a longer and harder track, she would probably have had little difficulty approaching 475-500 mph for which she was designed. The black and white images is of CN7 completing her record run.

Edited by sheppane, 19 May 2010 - 15:12.

[sheppane]

Thanks for sharing these evocative pics sheppane.

Any one know what was happening with K7's tail fin between 1957 and 1958 in the pics above ?

K7 was fitted with a very small fin for her trials on Lake Onondaga Lake near Syracuse in September 57. As Steve has said, this housed a parachute. This was then removed for the subsequent record attempt in November 57 at Coniston.
In 1958, K7 was equipped with the larger fin shown in the top image, but the lower Sponson fairing's for a trip to Aix Le Bain's in May 1958. The fuller sponson fairing's illustrated were fitted in late summer 58 before the trip to Coniston in September under the sponsorship of BP

[arttidesco]

Thanks for the tail fin up dates, K7 does look particularly awesome without it I think :-)

[sheppane]

Good idea Neil, wonder why I didn't think of it!

The shot of CN7 at Goodwood, is that Ray Govier leaning the on the railing???

Looks like it to me (Roy Govier was from Bristol Siddeley, makers of Bluebird's Proteus gas turbine)

Edited by sheppane, 19 May 2010 - 15:15.

[f1steveuk]

Dear old Ray, fountain of knowledge, and the only person I have ever known whose house you could buy as a "Lilliput Lane" sculpture!!

[werks prototype]

Anybody seen Mr Woppit?

[f1steveuk]

Gina, Donald's daughter still has Whoppit, but his wife (honestly) Mrs Whacko dissapeared sometime ago. Then there was Mr Tiki, a Moari good luck charm, who I believe now lives just outside Eastbourne!!

[sheppane]

Anybody seen Mr Woppit?

Here is Mr Whoppit with the team after his first record in 1958 at 248mph

[sheppane]

Another few images for your enjoyment:

The air intake of CN7, seen at Goodwood in 1960



CN7 at Goodwood in July 1960 together with the KLG / Malcolm Campbell 350 bhp Sunbeam and Seagrave's 1000hp Sunbeam and Golden Arrow



K7 at full chat on Coniston in December 1966 traveling at about 270mph

[werks prototype]

Another few images for your enjoyment:

CN7 at Goodwood in July 1960 together with the KLG / Malcolm Campbell 350 bhp Sunbeam and Seagrave's 1000hp Sunbeam and Golden Arrow

What a great image! It is like something out of a dream. (Beaulieu on tour).

[werks prototype]

DC and Woppit




1964. Bristol Siddeley's Patchway works. Test run of the Bristol-Siddeley Proteus 4,100bhp gas-turbine.




1960. 360mph crash after the fifth trial run at Bonneville.

Edited by werks prototype, 19 May 2010 - 19:45.

[sheppane]

DC and Woppit three days before the fatal accident.

I'm afraid to say that this pic was taken in the late 50's. Probably May 59. I have it in a BP book published in 1960... and besides, I think Coniston in January is a little too cold for a polo shirt.

Thanks for posting the pics though. It would be nice if we can get some regular traffic on here.

All the best,

Neil

Edited by sheppane, 19 May 2010 - 18:23.

[werks prototype]

Are you positive about that sheppane? If anyone would know it would be you. It is just that the description associated with the picture is quite specific. I just can't think that, that could have gotten through the proof read un-edited? I'll accept what you say though.

To quote

Within three days he was to lose his life in pursuit of his own World Water Speed Record

accepting what you say, I'm thinking it should read "Within three years"

Edited by werks prototype, 19 May 2010 - 18:32.

[sheppane]

A rare colour image of K7 taken at Lake Canandaigua in New York state in July 1957.
Note that K7 is tramping at this point with the forward planing surface alternately rising and falling on the water surface. This is caused by the less than ideal water conditions. K7 was designed to travel over flat calm water conditions. At full speed, only 12 square inches of K7's hull was in contact with the water - and sometime's even less that if water conditions were not flat calm.

Campbell was not able to break the record here, never enjoying good water conditions due to the presence of too many pleasure craft on the lake causing swell's. He had to content himself with his fourth record back at Coniston in November - 239mph.

[sheppane]

Are you positive about that sheppane? If anyone would know it would be you. It is just that the description associated with the picture is quite specific. I just can't think that, that could have gotten through the proof read un-edited? I'll accept what you say though.

To quote accepting what you say, I'm thinking it should read "Within three years"

I think that quote was in the Peter Holthusen book... Full of lovely pictures, but my god... so so many inaccuracies!

Edited by sheppane, 19 May 2010 - 18:40.

[werks prototype]

I remember once visiting Crawley in West Sussex and there is a large country park which used to form part of a garden (Large Manor House). Anyway, contained within is a lake. I'm sure I remember reading a plaque or something similar declaring that the lake had either been used by a scale test model of K7 or the real thing (At extremely low speeds). Does this ring any bells?

[werks prototype]

I think that quote was in the Peter Holthusen book... Full of lovely pictures, but my god... so so many inaccuracies!

That's it then. I took the book apart years ago. I don't feel so bad now. It is full of great drawings as well.

[werks prototype]

A rare colour image of K7 taken at Lake Canandaigua in New York state in July 1957.
Note that K7 is tramping at this point with the forward planing surface alternately rising and falling on the water surface. This is caused by the less than ideal water conditions. K7 was designed to travel over flat calm water conditions. At full speed, only 12 square inches of K7's hull was in contact with the water - and sometime's even less that if water conditions were not flat calm.

Campbell was not able to break the record here, never enjoying good water conditions due to the presence of too many pleasure craft on the lake causing swell's. He had to content himself with his fourth record back at Coniston in November - 239mph.

Is that a pitot tube protuding from the right side?

[sheppane]

I remember once visiting Crawley in West Sussex and there is a large country park which used to form part of a garden (Large Manor House). Anyway, contained within is a lake. I'm sure I remember reading a plaque or something similar declaring that the lake had either been used by a scale test model of K7 or the real thing (At extremely low speeds). Does this ring any bells?

I guess that would be Betchworth - Little Abbots Farm which was Campbell's home until 1958. It had a large pond which was used for testing a scale model of K7, which would be filmed, the film then giving up much valuable information under analysis.

It was these experiments that gave the configuration for the raised front spar in spring 55

With regard to the 57 pic, that is indeed the pitot tube.

Edited by sheppane, 19 May 2010 - 18:58.

[werks prototype]

Here it is http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/76498 Tilgate Lake. But perhaps not as interesting, he only used to keep his boat? there.

[f1steveuk]

Here it is http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/76498 Tilgate Lake. But perhaps not as interesting, he only used to keep his boat? there.

Tilgate Lakes is where Malcolm Campbell had a summer house, and tested some models. After his death in 1948, the estate was sold, and I don't think Donald ever ran any models there. In fact Malcolm was on his way to Tilgate to deliver Christmas presents when he suffered the stroke that was eventually to see his death on New Years eve.

K7 in Lake Mead trim, certainly looked more aggressive than the later versions!!

Edited by f1steveuk, 19 May 2010 - 19:14.

[sheppane]

Here it is http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/76498 Tilgate Lake. But perhaps not as interesting, he only used to keep his boat? there.

That will refer to Sir Malcolm Campbell who used to, If I remember correctly own Tilgate lake. He never kept any of his Bluebird speedboats there though. They were stored dismantled - engines at either his home Headley Grove or Little Gatton, V-drive and transmission at his sheds at Brooklands and the hull at Lincoln's in West London.

Edited by sheppane, 19 May 2010 - 19:15.

[f1steveuk]

That will refer to Sir Malcolm Campbell who used to, If I remember correctly own Tilgate lake. He never kept any of his Bluebird speedboats there though. They were stored dismantled - engines at either his home Headley Grove or Little Gatton V-drive and transmission at his sheds at Brooklands or the hull at Lincoln's in West London.

Sir Malcolm kept his cars either at home, when at Povey Cross, then at Thomson and Taylors at Brooklands. K3 was kept at Saunders Roe and at Brooklands, but K4 he kept at Little Gatton, with the engines at Brooklands (K4 was fitted with the Goblin jet then), with Leo going down once a month to turn them over, before Sammy Simpson brought them all, and the hull of K3 which he used as an attraction at his Lincoln car dealership on the Grest West Road, it was all this that got swapped about when Donald needed the engines, with the '35 Blue Bird car. Two of the engines, the V drive and some other parts may still be lying in Hounslow to this day!!!

[sheppane]

K7 in Lake Mead trim, certainly looked more aggressive than the later versions!!
[/quote]

Agreed... Most complete and beautiful as the 66 version, least aggressive in 58-64 trim, ungainly in early Ullswater 55 trim.... but like a lightweight racer in 56-57 trim, when she really was almost flying...

DMC had large kahunas to drive to those two records...

[werks prototype]

Sir Malcolm kept his cars either at home, when at Povey Cross, then at Thomson and Taylors at Brooklands. K3 was kept at Saunders Roe and at Brooklands, but K4 he kept at Little Gatton, with the engines at Brooklands (K4 was fitted with the Goblin jet then), with Leo going down once a month to turn them over, before Sammy Simpson brought them all, and the hull of K3 which he used as an attraction at his Lincoln car dealership on the Grest West Road, it was all this that got swapped about when Donald needed the engines, with the '35 Blue Bird car. Two of the engines, the V drive and some other parts may still be lying in Hounslow to this day!!!

That description evokes some spine tingling imagery.

[sheppane]

Bluebird K7 maneuvering on Coniston water in November 1966

[Duncan Fox]

Looks like it to me (Roy Govier was from Bristol Siddeley, makers of Bluebird's Proteus gas turbine)

This thread brings back a childhood memory of a day out with my parents at I think Earls Court. Was CN7 on display there? It was a big show ( boys own? Eagle? ) .Was pre tailfin ,so 1959?. I still have the image in my mind of sitting in that cockpit , big moment for me , resulted in a massive splurge of Meccano constuction to create my own record breaker.

Speaking of 1959 I just rediscovered a 1 pound premium bond my mother gave me , Googled NS&I maybe I'd won something? nope ,50yrs and not even a farthing . That made me think!!!!!!!!!

Can any TNFers help me recall the show and date please ?

Edited by Duncan Fox, 21 May 2010 - 01:24.

[macoran]

Speaking of missing the point !
http://www.google.nl.../...&tbs=isch:1
I'm still dying laughing

[Tony Matthews]

Nissan were certainly ahead of their time. 'The car in front is a Nissan!'

[macoran]

Nissan were certainly ahead of their time. 'The car in front is a Nissan!'

Except in 1964 most Nissans were called Datsuns, even the Bluebird in those days

Edited by macoran, 23 May 2010 - 23:21.

[Tony Matthews]

Except in 1964 most Nissans were called Datsuns, even the Bluebird in those days

I think I even did a cutaway of one!

[Bjorn Kjer]

May I remind you of the great transporter pictures on that thread , also another of which I do not remember the name with some great colour pictures , sorry if it has allready been mentioned herof , perhaps one of the readers can remember , it was a kind of pictures thread.

[sheppane]

Another couple of Campbell related pics:

the rebuilt Bluebird CN7 at Goodwood in July 1962



and DMC standing in the cockpit of K7 in late November 66. His rather glum expression is down to the fact that having been at Coniston for about 3 weeks, wrecked one engine, the team has still been unable to convince K7 to plane, due to the different weight distribution of the BS Orpheus get over the previously successful Metro Vic Beryl installation. The Orpheus was a lighter engine, and meant that K7 was nose heavy. This problem was fixed by the addition of lead ballast weights to the stern.



As Bjørn has commented, further great Campbell images can be found in this thread:

http://forums.autosp...amp;hl=bluebird

They were taken by Eddie Whitham in mid December 66, and very kindly posted by Alan Cox. They are works of Art! Especially this one:

Edited by sheppane, 24 May 2010 - 20:37.

[Pullman99]

Nissan were certainly ahead of their time. 'The car in front is a Nissan!'

That sort of error has happened before. Maybe they were Googling "Bluebird". There was some comment at the time when Nissan / Datsun first used the Bluebird name that something that was considered so historic and emotive should instead have been used by a manufacturer that was identifiably British.

Anyway, the Car in Front was a Toyota; mainly because it couldn't stop, (allegedly)!

Edited by Pullman99, 24 May 2010 - 13:07.

[sheppane]

That sort of error has happened before. Maybe they were Googling "Bluebird". There was some comment at the time when Nissan / Datsun first used the Bluebird name that something that was considered so historic and emotive should instead have been used by a manufacturer that was identifiably British.

Anyway, the Car in Front was a Toyota; mainly because it couldn't stop, (allegedly)!

DMC did look into taking legal action against Nissan in 1964 when the Bluebird came out. I don't believe he was successful though.

[Pullman99]

DMC did look into taking legal action against Nissan in 1964 when the Bluebird came out. I don't believe he was successful though.

I think that there was an issue with Sharp's "Bluebird" Toffees too!

Great pics, by the way. I had lunch in The Bluebird Cafe last Saturday. They're currently working out of a temporary Portakabin whilst their original Furness Railway building (contemporary with the SY Gondola) is refurbished following last year's floods when it was submerged to about half-way up the windows. Glad to report that they were doing a brisk trade in the Coniston sunshine.

Edited by Pullman99, 24 May 2010 - 14:49.

[werks prototype]

I think that there was an issue with Sharp's "Bluebird" Toffees too!

Your kidding. Regardless, even as a suggestion that has to about the most abstract and tenuous link ever to the Bluebird as a concept. Mind you, it sure is an 'imaginative' world.

[Pullman99]

Your kidding. Regardless, even as a suggestion that has to about the most abstract and tenuous link ever to the Bluebird as a concept. Mind you, it sure is an 'imaginative' world.

I think that both Donald and Sir Malcolm did try to protect and register their rights to the Bluebird name and I am pretty sure that a caravan manufacturer using the name may have been involved in a sponsorship deal. Details anyone? The Sharp's Bluebird Toffee name had been used years before I believe so may not have been relevant in this case.

I note that the Bluebird Electric website has this link.

Bluebird Trademarks

Bluebird matters back to the top of the Forum again!

Edited by Pullman99, 25 May 2010 - 10:01.

[Odseybod]

This thread brings back a childhood memory of a day out with my parents at I think Earls Court. Was CN7 on display there? It was a big show ( boys own? Eagle? ) .Was pre tailfin ,so 1959?. I still have the image in my mind of sitting in that cockpit , big moment for me , resulted in a massive splurge of Meccano constuction to create my own record breaker.

Speaking of 1959 I just rediscovered a 1 pound premium bond my mother gave me , Googled NS&I maybe I'd won something? nope ,50yrs and not even a farthing . That made me think!!!!!!!!!

Can any TNFers help me recall the show and date please ?

Think it was either the Schoolboys Exhibition (no, Horace, not a display of Schoolboys) or the Boys & Girls Exhibition (ditto) - maybe at Olympia rather than Earl''s Court? Anyway, I was there too and remember joining the huge queue to peer into K7's cockpit - don't think we were allowed to sit in it, though, as surely I would haveremembered that? Or maybe there was an exorbtant charge of sixpence to do so, and I refused to support such blatant profiteering. Hey ho.

Three Premium Bonds for 50+ years and still awaiting the motorcycle dispatch rider with the special delivery from Ernie (or however it's done ...).

[sheppane]

Think it was either the Schoolboys Exhibition (no, Horace, not a display of Schoolboys) or the Boys & Girls Exhibition (ditto) - maybe at Olympia rather than Earl''s Court? Anyway, I was there too and remember joining the huge queue to peer into K7's cockpit - don't think we were allowed to sit in it, though, as surely I would haveremembered that? Or maybe there was an exorbtant charge of sixpence to do so, and I refused to support such blatant profiteering. Hey ho.

Three Premium Bonds for 50+ years and still awaiting the motorcycle dispatch rider with the special delivery from Ernie (or however it's done ...).

Is this the occasion you had in mind?



Taken in spring 58, before K7 had it's sponsons modified. The venue is Olympia. Looks like there is a Raleigh cycle stand in the background. As part of the Bluebird display, note the Bluebird CN7 wheel and its BS Proteus gas turbine. This is when DMC was in publicity overdrive mode to drum up support for his LSR attempt.

[Odseybod]

Is this the occasion you had in mind?



Taken in spring 58, before K7 had it's sponsons modified. The venue is Olympia. Looks like there is a Raleigh cycle stand in the background. As part of the Bluebird display, note the Bluebird CN7 wheel and its BS Proteus gas turbine. This is when DMC was in publicity overdrive mode to drum up support for his LSR attempt.

Reckon that would be it! Thanks - glad I didn't imagine the Olympia venue.

[Pullman99]

Taken in spring 58, before K7 had it's sponsons modified. The venue is Olympia. Looks like there is a Raleigh cycle stand in the background. As part of the Bluebird display, note the Bluebird CN7 wheel and its BS Proteus gas turbine. This is when DMC was in publicity overdrive mode to drum up support for his LSR attempt.

That's a very atmospheric pic! Interesting to see the Dunlop wheel. Presumably, even in 1958, Dunlop had been well advanced with the special wheels and tyres for CN7 and I do remember the publicity that they gave to the new test house built especially at Fort Dunlop for the new Bluebird.

Do you know the name of the interviewer? Kenneth Wolstenholme perhaps? If so, could it be a piece for BBC Grandstand or Sportsview? Mr Wolstenholme is fondly remembered for the line, after England won the World Cup in 1966: "They think it's all over. It is now".

Olympia was also the venue for "The Castrol Extravaganza" in 1974 (celebrating 75 years of the oil company). Bluebird K3 (as well as Miss England) was exhibited there and I was subsequently told that Castrol had investigated exhibiting Sir Malcolm's 1935 car that was at that time in the Museum of Speed at Ormond Beach.

[sheppane]

Bluebird K7 on display in the paddock at Silverstone in May 1959 at the International Trophy Meeting. She stopped off on the way to Coniston Water, where she took her 6th WSR two weeks later on the 14th May 59 at 260mph.
Note the large BP advertising on the trailer. K7 was no doubt at Silverstone at BP's behest, and as part of DMC's efforts to raise publicity for the BP sponsored Bluebird CN7 LSR car at that moment in the final planing stage.