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USA Grand Prix returns to the F1 calendar in 2012 (merged)


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#3051 AustinF1

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 19:23

Right now, Schwantz and Hellmund hold the rights but unless they can work a deal with CotA or find another venue, those rights are worthless. CotA, on the other hand, is betting that they can get a better price by either dealing with MotoGP directly or at least by threatening to do so.

In other words, business as usual. No one can call either side clueless until the end of the game.


Hellmund & Schwantz own the rights. Merely threatening to go around them to Dorna will have no effect. If they want the rights, they're going to have to deal with FTP & 3FourTexas.

Maybe, maybe not. Ezpeleta seems to think there's going to be a race in Texas.


I think there will be a race in Texas, too. It just might not be at COTA.

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#3052 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 19:44

Where else would MotoGP go?

#3053 Watkins74

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 19:53

Hellmund & Schwantz own the rights. Merely threatening to go around them to Dorna will have no effect. If they want the rights, they're going to have to deal with FTP & 3FourTexas.

When do those rights expire?

#3054 David M. Kane

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 23:51

When do those rights expire?


Good point because it is clear these weasels want out of the deal. If there is one thing weasels hate it is being out foxed. :lol:

Losers! :down:

Edited by David M. Kane, 03 April 2012 - 23:51.


#3055 AustinF1

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:37

Latest COTA aerial photo, shot today from a jet departing ABIA & tweeted by @cwerlin.

Posted Image

#3056 AustinF1

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 04:38

Travis County Commissioners are ready to see COTA's Traffic & Emergency Plans.

http://www.statesman...ns-2281637.html

Saying Formula One race organizers do not have solid plans for road closures, traffic management, emergency services among items related to the November event, the Travis County Commissioners Court unanimously asked Tuesday that those plans be in place by June 1.

County staffers are expected to immediately send a letter to Circuit of the Americas officials, saying that they need to submit a traffic plan, a roadway plan, information for a mass-gathering permit, a public safety plan and a development permit, and send weekly letters citing any issues with the organizers adhering to the county's schedule, County Judge Sam Biscoe said in the commissioners' meeting Tuesday. The county also expects drafts for some of those plans by April 30.



#3057 AustinF1

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 16:02

Paul Mitchell? Patron?

Jon Paul DeJoria will speak at a ceremony April 12 commemorating the capping of the COTA pit building.

http://www.bizjourna...-milestone.html





Also, here's some registration info for any experienced Marshalls wanting to help out:

http://www.circuitof...s.com/volunteer

Edited by AustinF1, 05 April 2012 - 16:05.


#3058 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 18:55

heh!

#3059 RedOne

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 09:57

Latest COTA aerial photo, shot today from a jet departing ABIA & tweeted by @cwerlin.

Posted Image


Will they even finish this on time? Looks like a lot of work still to do!

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#3060 AustinF1

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:40

Circuit of the Americas seeks assistance from Travis County for roadwork:

http://www.statesman...is-2286326.html

#3061 David M. Kane

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 15:22

Circuit of the Americas seeks assistance from Travis County for roadwork:

http://www.statesman...is-2286326.html


I guess better late than never? :down:

#3062 red stick

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 15:53

This part doesn't sound promising:

Travis County Commissioner Sarah Eckhardt said it isn't clear exactly what the circuit is seeking and added, "This looks like a very ambitious business proposal that is having trouble meeting its financial obligation. And so they are looking to the county to subsidize a portion of their startup costs."


It sounds like the track may have some trouble at this point getting the county to bail them out. Anybody familiar with the local political climate have a better feel for this?

And I love this part:

Travis County officials have previously expressed concern about transportation to and from the isolated site, saying traffic delays for that Sunday race could be as long as 12 hours. Circuit officials have not dismissed the potential problems but have estimated delays closer to three hours.


One question: Are these estimates for delay times based on the current road configuration or after improvements? Either way, 6-12 hours (I figure we can safely double the track's estimate; call me a cynic) is a good stretch.

I hope the shuttle buses have dedicated traffic lanes. :well:



I parked onsite at Barber last weekend for $25. I walked to my car after the IndyCar race was over, spent 15 minutes getting out of the parking lot, and another 15 minutes getting out of the facility, which lies at the end of a mile or so long four lane road, two lanes each way, and empties onto a road which is four-laned just near the track, then swiftly changes to two lane. I was on I-459 heading home 50 minutes after the end of the race. If they can begin to empty 50,000 people out that quickly, maybe COTA should consult with them.

Edited by red stick, 06 April 2012 - 15:59.


#3063 AustinF1

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 15:55

This part doesn't sound promising:



It sounds like the track may have some trouble at this point getting the county to bail them out. Anybody familiar with the local political climate have a better feel for this?

And I love this part:



One question: Are these estimates for delay times based on the current road configuration or after improvements? Either way, 6-12 hours (I figure we can safely double the track's estimate; call me a cynic) is a good stretch.

I hope the shuttle buses have dedicated traffic lanes. :well:


Current road config.


#3064 Bunchies

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 16:13

Wow, this is terrible. Red and Bobby have sunk COTA. What started as undying support and excitement for Hellmund has transformed into wishing for the grim satisfaction of seeing such snakes as Epstein and McCombs lose huge amounts of money.

#3065 Watkins74

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 16:18

Wow, this is terrible. Red and Bobby have sunk COTA. What started as undying support and excitement for Hellmund has transformed into wishing for the grim satisfaction of seeing such snakes as Epstein and McCombs lose huge amounts of money.

I never gave a crap about Hellmund, McCombs or Epstein. I just wanted an F1 race.

#3066 red stick

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 16:20

I never gave a crap about Hellmund, McCombs or Epstein. I just wanted an F1 race.

Me too. I don't care who's making money off it, or not--I just want a professionally run event that I'll enjoy attending.

#3067 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 17:08

This quote is troubling, yet not unexpected: Travis County Commissioner Sarah Eckhardt said it isn't clear exactly what the circuit is seeking and added, "This looks like a very ambitious business proposal that is having trouble meeting its financial obligation. And so they are looking to the county to subsidize a portion of their startup costs."

#3068 Bunchies

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 19:04

I never gave a crap about Hellmund, McCombs or Epstein. I just wanted an F1 race.


I'm less inclined towards the person and much more drawn by his seeming ability to know wtf he's doing when it comes to F1. This project was looking great before, and it's sad to see how far it's fallen without his promotion.

#3069 red stick

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 21:52

Current road config.

So there's room for improvement, theoretically, assuming this dispute also gets resolved and the bulldozers start moving. :drunk:


#3070 Risil

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 00:43

Where else would MotoGP go?


Road America!

Apparently it was a goer in 1995, they'd even made up the publicity material. With the chicane at the Kink it's Lorenzo-safe, I reckon.

Edited by Risil, 07 April 2012 - 00:44.


#3071 loki

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:22

Road America!

Apparently it was a goer in 1995, they'd even made up the publicity material. With the chicane at the Kink it's Lorenzo-safe, I reckon.


They aren't going to homologate RA. Not only that, it would neuter it. Maybe Barber? It seems it is more suited to bikes given the width of the track and it's already got a proper grade for Moto GP.


#3072 loki

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:31

One question: Are these estimates for delay times based on the current road configuration or after improvements? Either way, 6-12 hours (I figure we can safely double the track's estimate; call me a cynic) is a good stretch.


The initial studies done by the county were flawed with people not familiar with this sort of thing working from assumptions and data from other TX area events that weren't applicable to this event. The outfit that oversees the traffic at Silverstone for the Brit GP was brought in and came up with a plan that was publicized but never made it in for county approval. That is where the 3 hour number comes from. If anyone here has driven to a larger NASCAR race, 3 hour exit is not uncommon. In fact, in most places it's normal.

Sarah Eckhardt has been against the project from day one. I wouldn't count on any support from her. Many developers ask for help with road and infrastructure improvements for many sorts of projects. It's not specific to this project. It depends on the locale, some get it, some don't, some partner. Some of you kats need to chill the hell out and not jump to conclusions. They'll get the circuit done and host a GP this year, but I'm not certain they either want or be able to sustain the deal if it's a money loser.


#3073 BRG

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 09:18

...wishing for the grim satisfaction of seeing such snakes as Epstein and McCombs lose huge amounts of money.

Have no fear, your wish has already been granted! They are doing business with Ecclestone - they are guaranteed to be losing shed-loads of cash to the poison dwarf.

#3074 AustinF1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:51

The initial studies done by the county were flawed with people not familiar with this sort of thing working from assumptions and data from other TX area events that weren't applicable to this event. The outfit that oversees the traffic at Silverstone for the Brit GP was brought in and came up with a plan that was publicized but never made it in for county approval. That is where the 3 hour number comes from. If anyone here has driven to a larger NASCAR race, 3 hour exit is not uncommon. In fact, in most places it's normal.

Sarah Eckhardt has been against the project from day one. I wouldn't count on any support from her. Many developers ask for help with road and infrastructure improvements for many sorts of projects. It's not specific to this project. It depends on the locale, some get it, some don't, some partner. Some of you kats need to chill the hell out and not jump to conclusions. They'll get the circuit done and host a GP this year, but I'm not certain they either want or be able to sustain the deal if it's a money loser.


I expect, as Red Stick said, the truth lies somewhere between the County's estimate based on no road improvements, and the traffic firm's estimate. The roads need improving before the first race. If they aren't improved, there will be massive delays that will likely affect attendance of future events at the circuit.

I don't think it's unusual for them to ask for assistance either. Both sides should pay, imho. Those roads are horrible and have been in need of repair for years, so the county should pay for that. Now the roads need widening and one needs extending for event access, so COTA should pay as well. They've been deadlocked for a year now over who should pay how much. The county has less to lose in this fight in the short term, but judging from how things have gone so far, the COTA investors will let ego rule and won't back down despite the massive stakes (to their own detriment, just as we've seen previously).

Eckhardt has indeed been against the project from the beginning, but she's not saying anything here that we aren't already hearing from others.

Edited by AustinF1, 07 April 2012 - 11:02.


#3075 AustinF1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:56

So there's room for improvement, theoretically, assuming this dispute also gets resolved and the bulldozers start moving. :drunk:


Oh yeah...there's a great deal of room for improvement. How much will be done before the first race? That's critical, imho.

This quote is troubling, yet not unexpected: Travis County Commissioner Sarah Eckhardt said it isn't clear exactly what the circuit is seeking and added, "This looks like a very ambitious business proposal that is having trouble meeting its financial obligation. And so they are looking to the county to subsidize a portion of their startup costs."


That's a pretty loaded couple of lines.

...and then there's the mid-construction "topping-off" ceremony. I've heard of topping off with a tree. They've done that. Is a separate event like what's planned for the 12th typical?

Why is DeJoria speaking? I guess he's an investor in the deal. There are groundbreakings & ribbon-cuttings, but this smells like more fundraising.

Edited by AustinF1, 07 April 2012 - 12:38.


#3076 pup

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:48

Eckhardt has indeed been against the project from the beginning, but she's not saying anything here that we aren't already hearing from others.

What others?

#3077 AustinF1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 13:12

What others?

People in & around the project. People around Elroy. News people.

Guys talk. Ya hear things. We blow it off until it all starts showing a common thread. Then we start paying attention.

#3078 Watkins74

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 13:32

Meanwhile the Grand Prix of America in NJ seems to moving along nicely.

http://www.autoweek...._campaign=awdai


Edited by Watkins74, 07 April 2012 - 13:32.


#3079 AustinF1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 13:44

Meanwhile the Grand Prix of America in NJ seems to moving along nicely.

http://www.autoweek...._campaign=awdai


Nice. How long have they been working on that?


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#3080 pup

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 14:18

Roughly the same time. It's actually a parking garage for the Ferry terminal. Been planned for years. Part of the garage will be used by three or four of the teams for their pit garages, so they're calling it the pit building. It's the only permanent structure they'll have. All the other garages, team buildings, etc. will be housed in tents.

It's not a bad strategy, IMO. I think Australia and Canada use a similar setup. Though this is probably more like Monaco in terms of the space the teams will have. Depends on how many temporary garages they build and how the garage bays are divvied up.

But it does put the hoo-hah over Austin in perspective. Austin is a vastly more ambitious project.

By the way, the NJ race won't have any vehicular access whatsoever. The only access will be by public transport.

Edited by pup, 07 April 2012 - 14:28.


#3081 AustinF1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 14:26

Roughly the same time. It's actually a parking garage for the Ferry terminal. Been planned for years. Part of the garage will be used by three or four of the teams for their pit garages, so they're calling it the pit building. It's the only permanent structure they'll have. All the other garages, team buildings, etc. will be housed in tents.

Good thinking...in case it all goes to crap, the building is still useful.

#3082 BuonoBruttoCattivo

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 16:45

By the way, the NJ race won't have any vehicular access whatsoever. The only access will be by public transport.


Isn't Montreal like that as well?


#3083 pup

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 17:02

Isn't Montreal like that as well?

I think so. I don't know what kind of parking facilities are available at the pedestrian bridge. Someone should pay for me to go investigate.

Edited by pup, 07 April 2012 - 17:02.


#3084 Slowinfastout

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 17:07

:yawnface:
I think so. I don't know what kind of parking facilities are available at the pedestrian bridge. Someone should pay for me to go investigate.


The island where the circuit is in Montreal is connected to the subway system (actually it's another island right next to it). Basically the bulk of the attendance is accessing in and out through that. If someone comes from out of town you leave the car at the hotel or if you are on the south shore there is a big parking for the subway station over there..

Dunno how Jersey is gonna compare to that, but I'm pretty sure the projected shuttle system at COTA can't move as much people around with the same speed and efficiency.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 07 April 2012 - 17:14.


#3085 engel

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 17:52

I would guess the bulk of the people will get ferried over from Manhattan, I mean most out of state visitors are more likely to stay in NY and go watch the race than to stay in Jersey

#3086 AustinF1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 18:06

The island where the circuit is in Montreal is connected to the subway system (actually it's another island right next to it). Basically the bulk of the attendance is accessing in and out through that. If someone comes from out of town you leave the car at the hotel or if you are on the south shore there is a big parking for the subway station over there..

Dunno how Jersey is gonna compare to that, but I'm pretty sure the projected shuttle system at COTA can't move as much people around with the same speed and efficiency.

I absolutely loved getting to the track in Montreal. Piece of cake.

#3087 red stick

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 20:57

By the way, the NJ race won't have any vehicular access whatsoever. The only access will be by public transport.

Sure, but they're an urban race, with plentiful existing public transit options. Outside of Atlanta and D.C., southern public transit is somewhat less evolved.


#3088 discover23

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 21:21

I absolutely loved getting to the track in Montreal. Piece of cake.

But getting out is a pain in the arse.

#3089 AustinF1

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 21:37

But getting out is a pain in the arse.

I waited a little while, til after the support race, & it was easy.

#3090 Watkins74

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 22:53

Sure, but they're an urban race, with plentiful existing public transit options. Outside of Atlanta and D.C., southern public transit is somewhat less evolved.

Access to the NJ race is going to be a piece of cake. The NE corridor has public transit options out the ying-yang.

I wish nothing but the best for the fans of Austin but that traffic situation sounds grim.

#3091 David M. Kane

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 22:58

The island where the circuit is in Montreal is connected to the subway system (actually it's another island right next to it). Basically the bulk of the attendance is accessing in and out through that. If someone comes from out of town you leave the car at the hotel or if you are on the south shore there is a big parking for the subway station over there..

Dunno how Jersey is gonna compare to that, but I'm pretty sure the projected shuttle system at COTA can't move as much people around with the same speed and efficiency.



The subway in Montreal is very effective. :up:

#3092 hunnylander

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 06:36

Meanwhile the Grand Prix of America in NJ seems to moving along nicely.

http://www.autoweek...._campaign=awdai

Even the reader comments are much nicer and more positive, enthusiastic, than at the Statesman.com F1 articles, where I used to see anti-F1 trolling.

#3093 slmk

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 13:01

The island where the circuit is in Montreal is connected to the subway system (actually it's another island right next to it). Basically the bulk of the attendance is accessing in and out through that. If someone comes from out of town you leave the car at the hotel or if you are on the south shore there is a big parking for the subway station over there..

Dunno how Jersey is gonna compare to that, but I'm pretty sure the projected shuttle system at COTA can't move as much people around with the same speed and efficiency.


NY/NJ has many more options available than Montreal (but Montreal's are sufficient - it's not a knock or anything). There's a light rail system in NJ going along the river bank connecting to Hoboken (NJ Transit into Midtown Manhattan) or PATH (subway system going to Lower Manhattan, Midtown Manhattan). There are also buses (NJ Transit) leading to Midtown Manhattan and the ferry across the Hudson river.

Don't forget that a lot of events happen in NJ (Hockey, NFL, Soccer) so New Yorkers are used to taking trains/subways to reach New Jersey.

Austin is the real problem, not NJ.

#3094 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 13:32

Even the reader comments are much nicer and more positive, enthusiastic, than at the Statesman.com F1 articles, where I used to see anti-F1 trolling.


The anti's are there because government money is going towards the race. NJ isn't getting any so no one cares enough to complain.

#3095 Gilles12

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 13:51

Yes, but is it art?

#3096 pup

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 18:25

Austin is the real problem, not NJ.


Austin is the real imaginary problem.

#3097 jjcale

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 20:26

The anti's are there because government money is going towards the race. NJ isn't getting any so no one cares enough to complain.


They just need to put a casino in the middle of it....


Anyway... are the Texan taxpayers still on the hook even if the project there stalls?

#3098 HaydenFan

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 21:23

They just need to put a casino in the middle of it....


Anyway... are the Texan taxpayers still on the hook even if the project there stalls?


What do you mean by stalls? It seems as though, even if the Grand Prix fell through, the track will be built.

#3099 jjcale

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 21:53

What do you mean by stalls? It seems as though, even if the Grand Prix fell through, the track will be built.


Doesnt the public money only become available if the Grand Prix goes ahead?

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#3100 pup

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 02:55

They're spending $300 million on the track. $10 million from the state isn't a deal killer.