Jump to content


Photo

USA Grand Prix returns to the F1 calendar in 2012 (merged)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4008 replies to this topic

#3201 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:44

I'm still waiting to see if there will be other grandstands. The Tilke track diagrams used to show a set of "temporary" bleachers at the end of the back straight, which seemed a prime spot to sit. The diagram showed temporary bleachers installed all along the right side of the track coming down from Turn 1, and two sets bracketing the hairpin; but I see nothing in the pricing about those, either. All there is main straight, Turn 1, and Turn 15. Is that all they intend to have for formal seating? There's not 120,000 seats there.

Not sure why anyone would want to sit in the Turn 15 corner, they're well into the Mikey Mouse part of the track there. Maybe to see the cars coming down the back straight head-on? Very confusing.

Much as I'm trying to stay positive, these guys are working on my last nerve. Release the whole seating/attendance package, will ya?


Actually, if this ends up being realistic in any way, it looks like a pretty decent vantage point. Problem is one has to refinance the house to sit there..

Posted Image

Also, there are many more (projected?) grandstands in the simulated shots that there will be in reality. I think the project was scaled back significantly, AustinF1 posted lots of stuff about that..

Edited by Slowinfastout, 13 April 2012 - 16:46.


Advertisement

#3202 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:47

I'm still waiting to see if there will be other grandstands. The Tilke track diagrams used to show a set of "temporary" bleachers at the end of the back straight, which seemed a prime spot to sit. The diagram showed temporary bleachers installed all along the right side of the track coming down from Turn 1, and two sets bracketing the hairpin; but I see nothing in the pricing about those, either. All there is main straight, Turn 1, and Turn 15. Is that all they intend to have for formal seating? There's not 120,000 seats there.

Not sure why anyone would want to sit in the Turn 15 corner, they're well into the Mikey Mouse part of the track there. Maybe to see the cars coming down the back straight head-on? Very confusing.

Much as I'm trying to stay positive, these guys are working on my last nerve. Release the whole seating/attendance package, will ya?


Agreed; but it ain't going to happen. :down:

#3203 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:50

I'm still waiting to see if there will be other grandstands. The Tilke track diagrams used to show a set of "temporary" bleachers at the end of the back straight, which seemed a prime spot to sit. The diagram showed temporary bleachers installed all along the right side of the track coming down from Turn 1, and two sets bracketing the hairpin; but I see nothing in the pricing about those, either. All there is main straight, Turn 1, and Turn 15. Is that all they intend to have for formal seating? There's not 120,000 seats there.

Not sure why anyone would want to sit in the Turn 15 corner, they're well into the Mikey Mouse part of the track there. Maybe to see the cars coming down the back straight head-on? Very confusing.

Much as I'm trying to stay positive, these guys are working on my last nerve. Release the whole seating/attendance package, will ya?


According to what they're telling prospective buyers who have passed on the info, that seems to be the case, at least for 2012. Is it true? I guess only time will tell.

I agree completely regarding just getting all the info out there. Many people are going to be coming from hundreds or even thousands of miles away, yet they can't make any decisions that require knowledge of pricing. Like you, many are just simply tiring of it all, throwing their hands up, and saying "just forget it".


#3204 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,687 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:52



Posted Image



So we've got a 2004 Renault leading a 2004 Jag and Ferrari, followed by a 2002 Arrows?

#3205 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 13 April 2012 - 16:53

..and no empty seats :D

#3206 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 9,789 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 13 April 2012 - 17:30

According to what they're telling prospective buyers who have passed on the info, that seems to be the case, at least for 2012. Is it true? I guess only time will tell.

I agree completely regarding just getting all the info out there. Many people are going to be coming from hundreds or even thousands of miles away, yet they can't make any decisions that require knowledge of pricing. Like you, many are just simply tiring of it all, throwing their hands up, and saying "just forget it".

I'm in a group of 10 or 12 that want to go from Toronto for the weekend.
Flights are booked into San Antonio but can be canceled or changed.
If we don't get reasonable ticket pricing information by May 1, we are not going.
$500 to $600 each for a 3 day ticket is at the high end of reasonable. Otherwise we're not going.
Don't they know that people need to make their vacation plans NOW?


#3207 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 13 April 2012 - 20:36

I'm in a group of 10 or 12 that want to go from Toronto for the weekend.
Flights are booked into San Antonio but can be canceled or changed.
If we don't get reasonable ticket pricing information by May 1, we are not going.
$500 to $600 each for a 3 day ticket is at the high end of reasonable. Otherwise we're not going.
Don't they know that people need to make their vacation plans NOW?


They don't think or care about normal people; PLUS they don't know what they are doing! :down:

#3208 pup

pup
  • Member

  • 447 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 13 April 2012 - 22:12

I think planning a vacation 7 months out is abnormal, personally. Not wrong, just probably not the norm.

Then again, my wife and I went to Africa for two months a few years back with nothing more than a pair of plane tickets and a phone number for a car rental, so maybe I'm not the best judge.

#3209 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,687 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 13 April 2012 - 22:16

For an expenditure that big, most people are going to plan ahead.

#3210 tomspar

tomspar
  • Member

  • 110 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 14 April 2012 - 00:00

The only person I know that is still contemplating this is the CEO for mid-size company. They are still considering box/suite options (on the companies dime of course). The thing is, they hardly know shiit about motorsports (let alone F1). I can guarantee their employes and customers know even less. They just think it might be the in-thing to do; yet they are finding the pricing/commitment very difficult too.

It was a funny coincidence that I was in their office visiting when the COTA called him 'again.' Basically trying to blow him over the phone. Essentially COTA wants everyone that goes to the race (having a seat) to be there on a corporate perk... Sounds like fun huh? A bunch a clueless 'fans' in the grand stands. Maybe they can try to start a tradition where the women wear fancy hats?

i go vip to a lot of events, as i usually got a guy on the inside. sadly most vip's are there because they have a friend, client or vendor comping them, and the food and booze is usually plentiful. dont get me wrong, vip is awesome, but at rock concerts, for example, i will always go into the general admission area, where the real fans are. if you have ever wonered what you are missing if u are not vip, it is this: free food and booze, clean toilets, airconditioning up the ass, and Passionate, Knowledgable Fans.
this race needs the to have the fans represented, not a bunch of vips who may not even care about the race. sadly cota is doing everything to turn them off.

#3211 metz

metz
  • Member

  • 9,789 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:08

I think planning a vacation 7 months out is abnormal, personally. Not wrong, just probably not the norm.

You think? Have you tried to get a hotel room in Austin?
If one plans to drop $3,000 on a November weekend, it will affect what you do during the summer.

#3212 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 14 April 2012 - 16:42

A very interesting milstone is coming up on the COTA Agreement. It turns Tavo did write some protection for himself in the original contract. Check out the story in Pitpass. :up:

#3213 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 14 April 2012 - 17:12

A very interesting milstone is coming up on the COTA Agreement. It turns Tavo did write some protection for himself in the original contract. Check out the story in Pitpass. :up:

Yep, thanks David. I posted a link to a Statesman story about this back on page 79, but this one gives a bit more background.

http://www.pitpass.c...luation-on-COTA

#3214 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,687 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 14 April 2012 - 17:14

Of course it's only worth 25m, it has debts near ten times that.

#3215 X61

X61
  • Member

  • 520 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 14 April 2012 - 17:32

I think planning a vacation 7 months out is abnormal, personally. Not wrong, just probably not the norm.

I would normally agree--my last vacation I bought my airline ticket the same day I left. But when you're going to an event that could have 100,000+ people from all over the world flocking to the same town on the same day, I would want to plan far enough ahead so I could still get good event passes and a good hotel.

#3216 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 14 April 2012 - 17:37

Yep, thanks David. I posted a link to a Statesman story about this back on page 79, but this one gives a bit more background.

http://www.pitpass.c...luation-on-COTA


And I thank you for that; and yes I too believe it is a clearer explanation.


#3217 pup

pup
  • Member

  • 447 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 14 April 2012 - 17:46

Of course it's only worth 25m, it has debts near ten times that.


Their last filing had debt at a bit under $100m.

Regardless, a buyout offer has squat to do with the valuation of the business. Pitpass' finance expert seems to be pretty clueless about finance.

#3218 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,687 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 14 April 2012 - 17:48

I thought this was going to be a 200-250m project? And it's an asset without much resale or trade value. What are you going to do, cut up the race track and sell it to the Highway department?

#3219 pup

pup
  • Member

  • 447 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 14 April 2012 - 17:58

They had $100m in outside equity at the time, as well. Plus however much McCombs and Epstein put in. And now they've got DeJoria's cash and possibly others. And income from the PSL's is rolling in.

And of course we don't know how much of the estimated $350m total cost they've spent nor how much is planned to be spent before the race.

Anyway, just offering to buy something doesn't set it's value. Nor does selling it. People buy and sell stuff at above or below valuation all the time.

Edited by pup, 14 April 2012 - 17:58.


Advertisement

#3220 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 14 April 2012 - 17:58

Their last filing had debt at a bit under $100m.

Regardless, a buyout offer has squat to do with the valuation of the business. Pitpass' finance expert seems to be pretty clueless about finance.


Please explain your line of thinking? :confused:


#3221 pup

pup
  • Member

  • 447 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 14 April 2012 - 18:16

What I mean is that I can go down to the local Merc dealer and offer to buy a new SLS for a buck fifty. That doesn't mean that the car is actually worth that. Even if the salesman is pissed at his boss and sells me the car for that amount, it would still be worth considerably more than what I paid.

Tavo probably offered $8m because that's all he can raise, not because he thinks that's what it's worth. But even if he does, that's just one man's opinion, and has no bearing on how a bank or investor would value the business.

#3222 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 14 April 2012 - 18:27

What I mean is that I can go down to the local Merc dealer and offer to buy a new SLS for a buck fifty. That doesn't mean that the car is actually worth that. Even if the salesman is pissed at his boss and sells me the car for that amount, it would still be worth considerably more than what I paid.

Tavo probably offered $8m because that's all he can raise, not because he thinks that's what it's worth. But even if he does, that's just one man's opinion, and has no bearing on how a bank or investor would value the business.


$8M was what Tavo originally put into the deal. Red put $8.2 I think and Bobby Epstein provided the land that his family and another bloke owned. Originally the land was going to be a development of homes. IMO making Bobby a partner was the cheap and smart way to get a choice undeveloped location near the Airport. THEN and only then did they have a "package" they could take to potential investors.

If I'm wrong; I'm willing to listen to your argument. Please be specific.

#3223 pup

pup
  • Member

  • 447 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 14 April 2012 - 19:07

What you're taking about is the original owner's equity. It could be that the buyout amount is contractualy tied to that, I don't know. But still, that has nothing to do with the current valuation.

As proof, just look at the outside equity they reported a few months back. Investors put $100m into the company and that money didn't just disappear. It either went into improvements that have value or the cash is still waiting to be spent. Same goes for any debt they've taken on.

Now, it could well be that it's only worth $40m, given debt and if you make the extreme assumptin that what they got with the borrowed money, etc. is worthless. But the point is that the actual value doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what Tavo is offering. Even if they were to shut the thing down today and liquify it all, the value would be based entirely on the land and the improvements and any other assets, less debt. Owner equity wouldn't enter into it.

Actually, my real point is that pitpass needs to quit with the financial stuff because to me it just makes them look like idjits every time they do.

Edited by pup, 14 April 2012 - 19:41.


#3224 red stick

red stick
  • Member

  • 2,291 posts
  • Joined: October 05

Posted 14 April 2012 - 19:15

Actually, my real point is that pitpass needs to quit with the financial stuff because to me it just makes them look like idjits every time they do.

Agreed. That was beyond facile.

#3225 pup

pup
  • Member

  • 447 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 14 April 2012 - 22:13

Individual ticket sale info...

http://www.statesman...as-2303252.html

General admission and grandstand tickets for Austin's first Formula One race are not yet on sale and probably won't be until June, around the time of Montreal's Grand Prix. Geoff Moore, head of the track's marketing and sales, said those tickets would be sold online, with all likely to be three-day passes.

He said prices for those tickets have not yet been set, but they could be similar to Montreal's. At the Canadian Grand Prix this year, three-day passes are $558 for premium grandstand seats, $265 for the regular grandstand and $123 for general admission.

Moore said the sale of personal seat licenses has been brisk.

"We're in kind of a dead sprint," he said.

According to Moore, six senior representatives have been selling the personal seat licenses since mid-February, and in the past week 14 junior sales reps have been through training and are now working the phones from a row of cubicles at the circuit's office on Congress Avenue. They're going through 11,000 potential customers from around the U.S. and the world who earlier placed their names on the track's waiting list.

"It will be all 50 states and several countries," Moore said of the personal seat license customers.

Moore said slightly fewer than 10 percent of those on the waiting list were from foreign countries and 39 percent were from Texas. Californians account for about 15 percent of the list and Floridians about 8 percent.

Moore said the track has commitments for all 29 of the circuit's permanent suites. There are also 40 temporary trackside suites, similar to those found at professional golf tournaments, and he said there were commitments for about 35 percent of those suites.



#3226 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 14 April 2012 - 22:32

Ok now I'm really confused.. who the hell is going to be stupid enough to buy a PSL and annually pay a higher price for his seat, if you can simply get an individual ticket at a decent price?

#3227 pup

pup
  • Member

  • 447 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 14 April 2012 - 22:40

People with more money than sense, or more than they know what to do with. There's an awful lot of those around. And a lot of them will go to businesses, resellers, tour agencies, etc. The advantage is location and amenities, I guess, and the PSL is an asset that is supposedly an investment. Though frankly, I think the best seats are likely to be general admission.

Like I've said all along - I wouldn't buy one, but more power to them if they can sell them. I have friends and clients who I know would buy a PSL if the race were here. They'd whine about it, but they'd pay.

Edited by pup, 14 April 2012 - 22:45.


#3228 HaydenFan

HaydenFan
  • Member

  • 2,105 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 17 April 2012 - 19:09

People with more money than sense, or more than they know what to do with. There's an awful lot of those around. And a lot of them will go to businesses, resellers, tour agencies, etc. The advantage is location and amenities, I guess, and the PSL is an asset that is supposedly an investment. Though frankly, I think the best seats are likely to be general admission.

Like I've said all along - I wouldn't buy one, but more power to them if they can sell them. I have friends and clients who I know would buy a PSL if the race were here. They'd whine about it, but they'd pay.


From my experiences with IndyCar races through the years, it's always the case. And looking at modern GP circuits, at least the main grandstands are terrible. The huge pit complexes take away potential view from the back the circuit, and with only two corners of views.

#3229 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 17 April 2012 - 23:57

The Travis County Commissioners Court just voted to widen Elroy Road to Kellam and fix the bridge after the first GP.

More as I get it.

#3230 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 April 2012 - 00:39

Still more details coming out. Here's a Statesman story just released. Doesn't indicate either way if this will be done before or after the first race:

http://www.statesman...ials_to_he.html

#3231 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 18 April 2012 - 15:17

Still more details coming out. Here's a Statesman story just released. Doesn't indicate either way if this will be done before or after the first race:

http://www.statesman...ials_to_he.html


I personally don't think there will be a final ticket plan until this "ownership" issue is resolved. I "think" Red and Bobby were hoping to have sold more tickets by now. The question now is are their feet getting cold? :lol:


#3232 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 April 2012 - 15:37

OK...here you go, since nobody is reporting it...

From yesterday's Travis County Commissioners Court meeting text, Item 33:

I move that we authorize county staff to negotiate with the coda representatives regarding elroy road with an eye to determining what kind of agreement we should adopt in order to expand elroy from a two lane road to a four lane road, and to address the bridge issue on that road after the first race.


Motion passed 3-2.

They agreed to negotiate with COTA over how much each will pay for improvements, and they put off widening the bridge (and thus Elroy Road as well) until after the first race.

So it looks like the first race will run with no widening of Elroy.

They also approved the extension of Kellam to Pearce.

Earlier, the Judge completely dismissed item 32 (Sexton/COTA's request for financial incentives or an economic development agreement).



http://www.co.travis...vs120417_33.asp

Edited by AustinF1, 18 April 2012 - 16:15.


#3233 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,789 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 18 April 2012 - 15:42

So it looks like the first race will run with no widening of Elroy.

It took 40 or so years to widen the main access road to Silverstone, so I dare say folk in Texas will manage somehow.

#3234 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,687 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 18 April 2012 - 15:46

Yeah but you guys like that sort of thing.

#3235 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 April 2012 - 16:03

Earlier, the Judge completely dismissed item 32 (Sexton/COTA's request for financial incentives or an economic development agreement).

Edited by AustinF1, 18 April 2012 - 16:14.


#3236 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 18 April 2012 - 21:52

New COTA construction photos just posted by Miro-Rivera, the designer of the Main GS:

https://www.facebook...4...e=3

#3237 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:49

New COTA construction photos just posted by Miro-Rivera, the designer of the Main GS:

https://www.facebook...4...e=3


Who gives a crap? Until they have a real ticket plan count me out! Austin F1 you're doing a great job! :up:

#3238 Manneken3000

Manneken3000
  • Member

  • 236 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 19 April 2012 - 04:46

Posted Image



So we've got a 2004 Renault leading a 2004 Jag and Ferrari, followed by a 2002 Arrows?

Yeah and waving the flag at Scoot Speed :lol:

#3239 Joe Tanto

Joe Tanto
  • Member

  • 35 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 19 April 2012 - 19:17

If one plans to drop $3,000 on a November weekend, it will affect what you do during the summer.


Exactly right for me anyway...

Have been waiting to book Austin tickets since it was announced.
Travelling from Europe to Texas in October means it will be our main holiday, having to book two weeks from work to allow attending a week-end, means no trips during summer.
Flights, hotels, car rental, no problem, but there is still no price for the admission tickets for an ordinary F1 attendee.
To put it in perspective, we attended all the Indy F1 races, where possible back to back with Canada, most recently just Canada.
Normally everything was booked by December / January, if the Austin race isn't available to book this year by June, then we will probably forget about it until next year, but maybe by then go to New Jersey instead.
I'm not going to pay crazy prices either, it needs to be within 10% or so of Canada, which in itself is expensive compared to Indy, which looking back was next to nothing, especially 2006, when it was nothing.

That said, really excited about visiting the new track, so hoping it all works out.

Edited by Joe Tanto, 19 April 2012 - 19:18.


Advertisement

#3240 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 19 April 2012 - 20:44

Exactly right for me anyway...

Have been waiting to book Austin tickets since it was announced.
Travelling from Europe to Texas in October means it will be our main holiday, having to book two weeks from work to allow attending a week-end, means no trips during summer.
Flights, hotels, car rental, no problem, but there is still no price for the admission tickets for an ordinary F1 attendee.
To put it in perspective, we attended all the Indy F1 races, where possible back to back with Canada, most recently just Canada.
Normally everything was booked by December / January, if the Austin race isn't available to book this year by June, then we will probably forget about it until next year, but maybe by then go to New Jersey instead.
I'm not going to pay crazy prices either, it needs to be within 10% or so of Canada, which in itself is expensive compared to Indy, which looking back was next to nothing, especially 2006, when it was nothing.

That said, really excited about visiting the new track, so hoping it all works out.


Joe I agree, it needs to be decided by June. Otherwise I would go back to Canada or seriously consider New Jersey. I lived in Austin for over 25 years and it is a great city! BUT this Red McComb and Bobby Epstein are simply bad people with ever worst reputations. I wouldn't trust them with anything more pocket change. IF Tavo gets control back we should be fine; otherwise lock up your pets and your women... :down:


#3241 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 19 April 2012 - 21:18

Hellmund responds to COTA's statement re: McCombs share of the circuit:

http://www.pitpass.c...Combs-statement



“Yesterday, Red McCombs refused to honor the buy-sell provisions set forth in the company agreement,” Wetzel said in a statement. “Full Throttle Productions therefore intends to enforce the buy-sell offer and acquire Mr. McCombs’s interest.”

The statement continued:

“Earlier this week, Bobby Epstein confirmed in a letter to Full Throttle that he too is interested in acquiring a portion of Mr. McCombs’s interest. Whether or not Mr. Epstein follows through with his plan, Full Throttle will ultimately own at least one-third of Accelerator Holdings.

“According to information provided by Mr. McCombs’s legal counsel, this stake would in turn translate into a significant ownership interest by Full Throttle in Circuit of the Americas (COTA). This interest in COTA may actually be larger than expected, an issue that will be made clear only after the court orders Mr. Epstein and Mr. McCombs to turn over the company books, which they have refused to do voluntarily.”


Edited by AustinF1, 19 April 2012 - 21:49.


#3242 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 2,132 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 19 April 2012 - 23:36

Just because an attorney issues a press release doesn't mean that will happen. This is trial through public opinion. This could take a couple of years to settle out. First, there is the claim of binding arbitration that needs to be resolved. There is no legal obligation at this point for CotA to open the books to a non principal. First, they are going to have to break the arbitration clause. I haven't seen a motion for that just yet. Even if they do break the arbitration, they'll have to show cause and convince a judge the grant an order to open the books, which will be appealed if granted. No way any of this will be done by the first race unless the parties agree to settle out of court.

#3243 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 19 April 2012 - 23:46

Just because an attorney issues a press release doesn't mean that will happen. This is trial through public opinion. This could take a couple of years to settle out. First, there is the claim of binding arbitration that needs to be resolved. There is no legal obligation at this point for CotA to open the books to a non principal. First, they are going to have to break the arbitration clause. I haven't seen a motion for that just yet. Even if they do break the arbitration, they'll have to show cause and convince a judge the grant an order to open the books, which will be appealed if granted. No way any of this will be done by the first race unless the parties agree to settle out of court.


If they don't settle I suspect there will be no race. I'm not a lawyer; but I'm not buying a ticket of any sort under these circumstances.
Sounds like there is going to be a shoot out at the OK Corral.

I hope Tavo wins. :up:

Legally Red and Bobby are trying to bleed Tavo out since they have deeper pockets. At some point the City or the Governor are going to step in and say "boys you need to settle this."

Edited by David M. Kane, 19 April 2012 - 23:49.


#3244 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 19 April 2012 - 23:52

When the dust settles I wonder if F1 will have been anywhere near the place.. :well:

#3245 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 2,132 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 20 April 2012 - 00:13

If they don't settle I suspect there will be no race. I'm not a lawyer; but I'm not buying a ticket of any sort under these circumstances.
Sounds like there is going to be a shoot out at the OK Corral.

I hope Tavo wins. :up:

Legally Red and Bobby are trying to bleed Tavo out since they have deeper pockets. At some point the City or the Governor are going to step in and say "boys you need to settle this."


Why would there not be a race? The race contract is between the circuit and FOM. CotA and Acceleration have secured the funding. Hellmund has nothing to do with the race at this point. Instead of filing a press release they should have filed a motion to quash the arbitration with a motion for an expedited hearing. Hellmund and his representation should have known well in advance that McCombs wasn't going to sell and should have been prepared to file the motion. There is also the dispute on exactly how much of a stake Hellmund would get for that 8 mil. That will need to be settled as well. Getting into bed with McCombs and Epstein Hellmund has proven to be way out of that league. If he was in that league, he wouldn't have needed those guys in the first place.

When the law is on your side you pound the law. When the facts are on your side you pound the facts. When neither are on your side, you pound the table.

Edited by loki, 20 April 2012 - 00:13.


#3246 Slowinfastout

Slowinfastout
  • Member

  • 9,681 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 20 April 2012 - 00:34

Getting into bed with McCombs and Epstein Hellmund has proven to be way out of that league. If he was in that league, he wouldn't have needed those guys in the first place.


I agree with that up to a point, but the thing that strikes me is how Ecclestone is always talking about New Jersey instead of Austin, possibly indicating he's not too happy how things are going with COTA, and how his guy Hellmund was thrown under the bus.

If Ecclestone is still behind Hellmund in some shape or form, then I believe McCombs and Epstein might have met their match, they could have the rug pulled from under their feet at the slightest hiccup, and would be possibly facing covering their expense by selling very expensive 15-years tickets to watch V8 Supercars..

Edited by Slowinfastout, 20 April 2012 - 00:35.


#3247 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 20 April 2012 - 01:40

Why would there not be a race? The race contract is between the circuit and FOM. CotA and Acceleration have secured the funding. Hellmund has nothing to do with the race at this point. Instead of filing a press release they should have filed a motion to quash the arbitration with a motion for an expedited hearing. Hellmund and his representation should have known well in advance that McCombs wasn't going to sell and should have been prepared to file the motion. There is also the dispute on exactly how much of a stake Hellmund would get for that 8 mil. That will need to be settled as well. Getting into bed with McCombs and Epstein Hellmund has proven to be way out of that league. If he was in that league, he wouldn't have needed those guys in the first place.

When the law is on your side you pound the law. When the facts are on your side you pound the facts. When neither are on your side, you pound the table.


Fine you buy your ticket then. Three fools in my opinion regardless of the law. I ain't going. Enjoy sitting in an a mostly empty grandstand.

You might be a lawyer whom I've not met nor know so I won't go there because I actually know a few nice lawyers. Most of them though I have no time for. Since Bobby Epstein is a lawyer I probably should be careful what I say. :down:

Edited by David M. Kane, 20 April 2012 - 01:40.


#3248 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 2,132 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:13

I agree with that up to a point, but the thing that strikes me is how Ecclestone is always talking about New Jersey instead of Austin, possibly indicating he's not too happy how things are going with COTA, and how his guy Hellmund was thrown under the bus.

If Ecclestone is still behind Hellmund in some shape or form, then I believe McCombs and Epstein might have met their match, they could have the rug pulled from under their feet at the slightest hiccup, and would be possibly facing covering their expense by selling very expensive 15-years tickets to watch V8 Supercars..



I doubt Ecclestone cares about Tavo Hellmund. He just wants his money and if a couple of promoters can't pony up the dough and complete the circuits, they'll be racing.

#3249 David M. Kane

David M. Kane
  • Member

  • 5,400 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:28

I doubt Ecclestone cares about Tavo Hellmund. He just wants his money and if a couple of promoters can't pony up the dough and complete the circuits, they'll be racing.


Loki:

Actually Bernie has a history of being very loyal to people he's known for awhile like Tavo who he's known for 20 plus years, when Tavo dad was a race promoter and later when Tavo was racing Formula cars in England. Bernie respects that he came to Europe to learn the trade from the ground up.

1990- British FF
1991- British FF/Formula Vaukhall Junior
1992- FF US
1993- Formula Vaukhall Jr.
1994- Formula Vaukwall Jr.
1995- F3 Class B
1996- F3 Class

In 1992 I was living in Austin and I remember reading how Tavo had raised money to go back to England to race. Bernie an ex-F3 racer himself respect that Tavo wasn't afraid to leap in with both feet. I read somewhere that during the period he was even a gofer for Bernie in his race shop or something along those lines.

Wikipedia even claims their relationship is 40-years old.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Tavo_Hellmund

Lastly I lived in Austin for 25 years and I know many people who have done business or tried to do business with Red and Bobby...




#3250 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 1,968 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:51

My buddy, the lead admin of Facebook.com/FoF1ATX, was among many Elroy residents who attended a meeting held by COTA reps tonight. He just updated me on what COTA brought to Elroy residents tonight regarding the traffic plan. He asked me to post his report.

If any of you can add to this, please feel free to do so.



Meeting with Circuit of the Americas – Draft Traffic Plan

04/19/2012 7:00 PM at Circuit of the Americas

COTA Reps – Julie Loignon, David Sweazy, Ali Putnam, Kevin T, Steven Elliot

Meeting Minutes...

-COTA collected contact info from residents in attendance.
-Traffic Plan will be submitted to Travis County in one week.

Access:
-Pedestrian bridge will lead from McAngus shuttle parking over creek to COTA.
-Pedestrian walk-in traffic still under consideration due to safety concerns.
-League of Bicycle Voters led by Chris Riley will park near Moore ’s crossing and have access to a free shuttle to COTA. (League cyclists only?)
-Impression: It seems unlikely fans will be allowed to walk in or ride bike into COTA
-Question was asked "What about race attendees who live in or are staying nearby? COTA had no answer.
-12 wreckers on call for bus issues
-Roads around COTA will be open to through traffic.
-Passes required to enter COTA property.


Traffic estimates for event:
-Friday 11/16 8am to 5pm 30 to 40k ppl
-Saturday 11/17 8am to 5pm 50k ppl
-Sunday 8am to 5:30pm 120k ppl
-Peak traffic expected 10:30am to 1:00pm
-All service traffic will be completed by 8:00am
-Law enforcement will manage the traffic flow.

Seating:
-Grandstands will seat 9 to 10k
-Paddock will seat 5 to 6k
-4 additional temporary seating areas
-Tents for hospitality
-Portable suites
-Seating for 40 to 50k in temporary bleachers


Parking:
-Parking onsite for 17k including F1 teams, FIA & FOM personnel, Paddock Club Members, Media, Suite holders, PSL holders, and hospitality staff.
-General admission will be shuttled in by bus.
-500 buses
-COTA has leased the Travis County Expo center for shuttle parking.
-Allowable carry on items still under consideration.
-Route from Expo Center includes Decker lane to FM973 to McAngus road to parking lots.
-A downtown parking area will also be used, location not determined.
-COTA is build 3 depots. 2 for buses, 1 for taxi cabs.
-Yellow lot for Taxis
-Blue lot for Downtown parking
-Orange lot for Expo parking

Camping:
-76 RV parking slots available along straightaway.
-Onsite camping information not available at this time.