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Footscray tram barn-find


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#1 sandy

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 04:08

This is probably not the forum for this description of what occured but I thought that there is such interest in the barn find concept that readers of TNF may appreciate the impact of this story. Basically it goes like this. Melbourne is a city of trams, in fact Victoria is a state of trams as several large provincial cities have had extensive tram systems. Many old trams have been preserved and even today existing tram services still utilise W series trams the design of which go back to the 1920s. Melbourne has exported old trams to a number of US locations, particularly Seattle. The preservation scene is huge. One of the old lines was the Footscray suburban line. No Footscray trams were preserved. So when a friend of mine excitedly rang up and said that there was a report that a Footscray tram had been located somewhere near where I lived and would I go and have a look I immediately shot out of the door and went to this location where what appeared to be a tram could apparently be seen from the road. I drifted along this road and saw something as part of a collection of outbuildings that could well be a tram. I ventured in and spoke to a farmer's wife who showed me the various sheds and outbuildings and sure enough part of it all was a Footscray tram. But it was long gone and so hacked about that it was beyond saving. It was tragic. So eventually I turned to go but as I got into the car the farmer's wife casually said "Of course there is the other one". Half an hour later and I am standing in a clearing looking at a fully intact Footscray tram of the later part of the 19th century. Two days later and a large crane was lifiting it onto a low loader amd it is now up for a full restoration. Photos are on their way if TNF readers are interested.




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#2 jeremy durward

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 06:01

This is probably not the forum for this description of what occured but I thought that there is such interest in the barn find concept that readers of TNF may appreciate the impact of this story. Basically it goes like this. Melbourne is a city of trams, in fact Victoria is a state of trams as several large provincial cities have had extensive tram systems. Many old trams have been preserved and even today existing tram services still utilise W series trams the design of which go back to the 1920s. Melbourne has exported old trams to a number of US locations, particularly Seattle. The preservation scene is huge. One of the old lines was the Footscray suburban line. No Footscray trams were preserved. So when a friend of mine excitedly rang up and said that there was a report that a Footscray tram had been located somewhere near where I lived and would I go and have a look I immediately shot out of the door and went to this location where what appeared to be a tram could apparently be seen from the road. I drifted along this road and saw something as part of a collection of outbuildings that could well be a tram. I ventured in and spoke to a farmer's wife who showed me the various sheds and outbuildings and sure enough part of it all was a Footscray tram. But it was long gone and so hacked about that it was beyond saving. It was tragic. So eventually I turned to go but as I got into the car the farmer's wife casually said "Of course there is the other one". Half an hour later and I am standing in a clearing looking at a fully intact Footscray tram of the later part of the 19th century. Two days later and a large crane was lifiting it onto a low loader amd it is now up for a full restoration. Photos are on their way if TNF readers are interested.


i'd love to see the photos. bring em on

#3 gkennedy

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 06:07

There's threads here about boat racing, de Havilland Mosquitos, rocket cars and blood pressure, so I don't see why not. I'm sure a helpful mod will point you in the right direction is he doesn't think it's suitable. Footscray trams certainly fit with the 'Nostalgia' theme, and I'd like to see them.

#4 petestenning

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 07:04

Indeed i would be interested in seeing the photo's , i may not be old enough to recall trams , but in the UK as a child my favorite form of transport was the old Trolley buses .
As a 8/9 year old i used to travel on the old Maidstone trams to visit a gran.

Would love to see those about again the only one i have found is the Lowerstoft Transport Museum that has a working on completer with the overhead wires.
They also have an old Dutch tram , and a workshop full of restoration 's.


#5 Gary Davies

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 07:32

Sandy, as one punter here, I say this is a marvellous thread. The Melbourne tram network is fabulous and I love to travel on it whenever I visit.

As a Victorian, I'm sure you'll appreciate the cheekiness of a question this South Australian resident posed to one of the old boys on duty at the Melbourne Tram Museum at Hawthorn a few years ago. I asked whether Melbourne's retention of a tram network when Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth were furiously tearing up their tracks was because the Melbourne City Fathers were prescient... or because they never got round to it.

The particular old boy I spoke to didn't know which! Do you, by any chance?

#6 Kevan

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 07:51

Yes please- I'm sure I'm not the only one on TNF who is interested in transport history, so trams are fine by me. Given some of the previous non-motorsport threads we've had, I'm sure another one won't do any harm, so long as we don't take the whole forum off-topic

#7 jeremy durward

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 07:58

Sandy, as one punter here, I say this is a marvellous thread. The Melbourne tram network is fabulous and I love to travel on it whenever I visit.

As a Victorian, I'm sure you'll appreciate the cheekiness of a question this South Australian resident posed to one of the old boys on duty at the Melbourne Tram Museum at Hawthorn a few years ago. I asked whether Melbourne's retention of a tram network when Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth were furiously tearing up their tracks was because the Melbourne City Fathers were prescient... or because they never got round to it.

The particular old boy I spoke to didn't know which! Do you, by any chance?


and us south aussies are putting back in the same place we took them out of...

#8 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 08:21

and us south aussies are putting back in the same place we took them out of...

Yes and in a few years we will probably be pulling them out again! our new tram line duplicates both a train line and a bus route both of which have the capacity to carry more passengers with far less disruption.

#9 Gary Davies

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 10:55

Lee, Jeremy... don't get me started on Media Mike. This forum doesn't deserve profanities! :mad:

#10 Gary C

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:18

Yep, bring on the piccies!

#11 Twin Window

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:27

Yes please- I'm sure I'm not the only one on TNF who is interested in transport history, so trams are fine by me. Given some of the previous non-motorsport threads we've had, I'm sure another one won't do any harm, so long as we don't take the whole forum off-topic

I agree.

Whilst this forum is - and always will be - a motor racing-orientated domain, I see no reason why we can't spread ourselves a little now and again and open ourselves up to other subjects of interest from the past. After all, we as TNF members are, by definition, 'grown-ups' and as such should be adult enough to be capable of broad-mindedness.

As has been mentioned, elderly 'planes, trucks and other examples of historic transportation have been welcomed here, so why not trams too?

Personally I have fond memories of trolley buses in my mother's home-town of Rotherham in Yorkshire... :)

#12 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 11:46

Lee, Jeremy... don't get me started on Media Mike. This forum doesn't deserve profanities! :mad:

Invisible Mike at the moment, he is on holiday


#13 kayemod

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 12:05

Personally I have fond memories of trolley buses in my mother's home-town of Rotherham in Yorkshire... :)


Me too, we lived in the west of Sheffield and only had buses, there had been trams as well, but these were being phased out and the tracks dug up when I was quite small. Mum had a cousin who lived on Sheffield's 'dirty side', anyone who can recall the days before smokeless zones will know what that means, prevailing winds blew from west to east, and almost everything east of Sheffield city centre was black, I remember being taken as a child to the moors above Ringinglow to see the view right across the city, something that had never been possible before due to the perma-fog from the steelworks and thousands of coal fires. But I digress, the main attraction for me of a visit to Mum's cousin, was a ride on a tram, which we boarded on t'Wicker, gateway to all points east, which was also the name of Sheffield University's rag mag. Those trams seemed to hurtle along at great speed, no real suspension, so rattling all the way, and the seats were just wood slats with no cushions. The seat backs were hinged, the trams were double-ended, and upon reaching the terminus, the conductor used to walk along reversing the seat backs with a great clatter, so they all faced the way the tram was going. Another treat on heading east was the chance of seeing TW's Rotherham trolleybuses, anything on wheels fascinated me as a child, still does in fact, and we didn't have trolleybuses in Sheffield. I was never an "Are we there yet?" child, just happily ensconced in the back seat of Dad's Standard 8 or the Vanguard that followed, happily car/lorry/bus/tram/trolleybus spotting, and excitedly logging things in my 'I-Spy' books, of which I usually possessed a dozen or so when travelling anywhere.

#14 David McKinney

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 12:17

Personally I have fond memories of trolley buses in my mother's home-town of Rotherham in Yorkshire... :)

You young kids and your trolley-buses :cool:
When I started work in the early '60s Wellington (NZ) still had trams - jump on and off whenever they stopped for lights or traffic. A bit like the old Routemaster buses in London, I guess.
2 May 1964 was a sad day for Wellington, when the phase-out was finally completed and the last tram ran.
As elesewhere, they were replaced by trolley-buses, which you could only get on an off at designated stops - and whose poles came off far more often than the trams' had.
This could almost be me on my way to work (though it looks more '50s than '60s)
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#15 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 12:33

There isn't enough cars from the twenties for it to be fifties, don't you think, David?

But then again, there are no cars from the sixties there either. Latest appears to be about '54 or so. And I think that Citröen over on the right would be somewhat rare.

#16 David Shaw

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 13:30

I would definitely love to see the photos sandy. I have had a love of Melbourne's old trams since my teens, and before I moved to my current house with my wife some 11 years ago, I used to catch the 119 from Balwyn to the city for work each day. The trams are an important part of inner-suburbia in Melbourne.

#17 David McKinney

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 15:04

There isn't enough cars from the twenties for it to be fifties, don't you think, David?

You'd see more '20s cars in country areas - the photo is of the main drag of Wellington (though I must admit the lack of traffic surprises me)

But then again, there are no cars from the sixties there either. Latest appears to be about '54 or so. And I think that Citröen over on the right would be somewhat rare.

Early to mid '50s, I guess. In fact, without being able to identify the light-coloured car beyond the jay-walking pedestrians, I don't think I can see anything newer than 1951.

And no, there were plenty of Citroens around - enough for me to own two at different times in the '60s

Edited by David McKinney, 02 June 2010 - 15:04.


#18 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 15:36

I should think that one is a Big 15, which was very rare here at least...

The car you mention could well be a Rover, methinks. If it's a Magnette or 4/44 it would put a different complexion on things. But there is a couple of Holdens there too.

Edited by Ray Bell, 02 June 2010 - 15:47.


#19 David McKinney

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 15:48

I missed the Holdens. The first shipment was landed in 1953, I think

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#20 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 16:07

I guess they were too much in demand in Australia to waste them on Enzedders...

If that's the case, did you get any 48/215s, or you started with FJs?

#21 taylov

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 16:55

Here's a view of Kings Cross (Sydney) but when exactly - posssibly 1950s?

Trolleybus, trams and a fantastic range of cars just waiting to identified.

Tony

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#22 kayemod

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 17:09

Were all the Antipodean trams single-deckers? There were a few exceptions, but almost all of the UK trams were double-deckers, as were the trolley buses.

#23 David McKinney

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 17:44

1. Ray - pretty sure the first shipment were FJs, though I did see the occasional earlier model, no doubt privately imported, after that

2. Taylov - can't spot anything postwar amongst that lot

3. Kayemod - can't speak for Australia, but there were no two-storey trams in NZ in my day. I have a vague recollection of seeing pictures of double-deckers in the earliest days though

#24 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 17:50

I've never seen a double-decker...

And I doubt that this picture is from the fifties. The taxis are all '30s models and the newest vehicle in there (the trolley bus looks a latish model) is at best a '46 or '47 model. I notice there is even a horse-drawn thing in among it all.

I don't know much about the trolley buses. I remember seeing them in Rockdale in the late fifties and virtually nowhere else.

#25 Twin Window

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 17:53

I've never seen a double-decker...

What, ever?

:eek:

#26 taylov

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 18:03

Were all the Antipodean trams single-deckers? There were a few exceptions, but almost all of the UK trams were double-deckers, as were the trolley buses.



Double decker horse trams ran in Adelaide; Ballerat; Brisbane; Melbourne and Sydney

Sydney had double deck electric trams on one route up to 1908, but otherwise in Australia there was only one large double deck electric network and that was in Hobart, Tasmania where the system closed in 1960.

In New Zealand, Auckland, Christchurch and Wellington all ran some double decker electrics into the 1950s.

(Ref: "Double-Deck Trams of the World -Beyond the British Isles" by Brian Patton (2002) a super 180 page book for the tramaholics.)

Ray, I used to go to school near Wimbledon, South London on the last of the double-deck trolleybus routes which closed in 1962. Great fun when the bus went too fast under a bridge and the trolley poles would crash down onto the roof leaving the bus stranded. The poor conductor had to use a long bamboo pole/ hook to try and replace them on the traction wire whilst being bombarded with objects thrown down from the top deck by those of us less than keen to reach our destination.

Tony

Edited by taylov, 02 June 2010 - 18:24.


#27 David Shaw

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 20:20

Here's a view of Kings Cross (Sydney) but when exactly - posssibly 1950s?


May I suggest the obvious, that the notation at the bottom suggests 1953?


#28 fnqvmuch

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 20:34

tramaholics a.k.a. 'gunzel', iirc. Bendigo has trams still too, and there was a beautiful photoshop Cairns Post front page a while back that had a W-class in the sugar-cane. makes sense given the network runs through the suburbs already...
steven

Edited by fnqvmuch, 02 June 2010 - 20:40.


#29 fredeuce

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 21:02

May I suggest the obvious, that the notation at the bottom suggests 1953?

I'm with Ray on this one. I suspect a bit earlier than '53 simply by virtue of the absence of early Holdens which had proliferated considerably by that time. Not one in sight. More likely it is in the 40's perhaps in the immediate post war period.

What are these cars? The nose of the car just in front and to the right of the trolley bus is a '38 Willys. The other sedan immediately to the left and rear of the trolley bus is a '37 Terraplane(Hudson). As for the others in the background still looking carefully at those.

Apparently Sydney had two separate trolleybus systems, one that ran to Wylde Street, in the Eastern Suburbs, and one based around Kogarah, on the eastern side of Botany Bay, in Sydney's south. This one obviously the Wylde Street route. Somehow seems an apt name for Kings Cross. :)

Edited by fredeuce, 02 June 2010 - 21:09.


#30 sandy

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 21:45

While I organise the photos of the Footscray trams you may be interested to know that there are many old trams in backyards in Melbourne including a W class in my son's wife's parents place, 5 minutes away from where I live. It is in good nick and is under cover. Photos to come. About 11 old trams were destroyed in the recent bush fires. When I was 4 years of age I would be put in the care of the conductor of the Bendigo tram that ran from Quarry Hill into Bendigo and dropped off at a kindergarten. Could you imagine putting a 4 year old into public transport on his own nowadays? The classic Melbourne tram is the W class and there are several hundred in storage in the old railway workshops at Newport, Melbourne. Some years ago I went on for a ride on a restored Ballarat tram of the type that ran in Bendigo. This was the first time I had travelled on a tram of this type for over 60 years. Immediately all the sounds, smells, motion etc. came flooding back. These trams are so old that they date back to gold rush days and are still in original condition. Bendigo has a large tram museum and most trams are operative. As a result it has a workshop which is internationally known to be unique when it comes to tram maintenance and restoration.

#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 22:45

Originally posted by fredeuce
I'm with Ray on this one. I suspect a bit earlier than '53 simply by virtue of the absence of early Holdens which had proliferated considerably by that time. Not one in sight. More likely it is in the 40's perhaps in the immediate post war period.....


Nor are there any of those round-nosed Morris 8/40s, Austin A40s or similar.

Originally posted by Twinny
What, ever?


No Stuart, never seen a double-decker tram. Double-decker buses, trolley buses and even tourist coaches and trains, yes, but no trams.

Originally posted by fredeuce
What are these cars? The nose of the car just in front and to the right of the trolley bus is a '38 Willys. The other sedan immediately to the left and rear of the trolley bus is a '37 Terraplane(Hudson). As for the others in the background still looking carefully at those.....


I would say the one immediately behind the Hudson is a late thirties (could be '46/'47 though) Humber, while the car next to it is an early thirties Riley. Behind the semi-obscured taxi over top of the Humber looks to be an early Chrysler, that would undoubtedly be a '39 Chev taxi off in the distance (RHS visible) and I'd vote for Pontiac alongside the Chrysler, A-Model in front of the Willys taxi, 'New Beauty' alongside the Riley and I don't have a clue about the car diverging to the right side of the photo. That's the one that intrigues me the most.

David, possibly the '53' refers to the number in a series that the photo might be?

#32 MattFoster

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Posted 02 June 2010 - 23:20

One of the best things about living in Melbourne is the vast choice of transport you can use. I love traveling on the tram network here, both old ones and new ones. I do get a chuckle every time I see a train packed to the rafters with commuters when I am traveling in comfort on the tram into work :rotfl:

#33 WDH74

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 00:05

So, a quick question from the States;
My understanding is that "trolley" and "tram" are interchangeable terms-is this the case? I mean, that both are (usually) electric single car trains that usually run through city centers and sometimes out to the 'burbs (we call the latter an "interurban)?

-WDH, aka Confused in Chicago

Edited by WDH74, 03 June 2010 - 00:06.


#34 fredeuce

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 00:23

WDH,

The "tram" runs on the rails like a train. However the trolley reference is a contraction of the term "trolleybus" doesn't run on rails. Both are depicted in the picture showing the Kings Cross scene above.

#35 jeremy durward

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 00:27

Yes and in a few years we will probably be pulling them out again! our new tram line duplicates both a train line and a bus route both of which have the capacity to carry more passengers with far less disruption.


its great to look at photos of north Tce and see the tram lines come go and come back again... kinda funny in a sad expensive kinda way.

personally i'm still upset about getting rid of the old trams a couple of years ago and the demolition of the old tram sheds in Victoria square

#36 fnqvmuch

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 01:14

Ray; could it be a Wolseley?
WDH74, i think tramway has also been applied here to the systems used in cane-farming, forestry and probably the smaller mining concerns - earlier days ...

#37 sandy

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 02:10

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There are 3 Footscray trams:

155 as shown - the one that has had it. (The owners are talking about burning it so if you want the bare bones of a 1916 tram let me know and I will give you their email).
164 as shown - fully restored.
158 which I found and which is in the hands of a tram enthusiast who is a very private person - photos to come.

I did not know of 164 when I started this topic.

Edited by sandy, 03 June 2010 - 02:28.


#38 Dan333SP

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 02:48

So, a quick question from the States;
My understanding is that "trolley" and "tram" are interchangeable terms-is this the case? I mean, that both are (usually) electric single car trains that usually run through city centers and sometimes out to the 'burbs (we call the latter an "interurban)?

-WDH, aka Confused in Chicago


Trolley Bus is definitely not a tram, but the generic "trolley" term is used all over the US to refer to trams. I lived in New Orleans for 4 years and I learned that in that city, the only name it could possibly have is "streetcar". Interestingly, there are a couple Melbourne-built 1920s era streetcars running on the riverfront line in New Orleans, and I'd occasionally see the 1890s vintage streetcar they still have in working order doing repairs on the uptown St. Charles line. The famous green cars that ply St. Charles Ave. are all American built from the 1920s. I loved riding those things, what better way for a college student without a car to hitch a ride to the French quarter for a night of drinking... Just make sure you have money in your pocket for a cab home because they're not exactly reliable at night!

#39 Bernd

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 03:18

Trolley Bus is definitely not a tram, but the generic "trolley" term is used all over the US to refer to trams.


Indeed that's how the Brooklyn (Now Los Angeles) Dodgers got their name. The inhabitants of the borough being quite adept at 'Dodging' trolleys.


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#40 sandy

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 03:49

Sandy, as one punter here, I say this is a marvellous thread. The Melbourne tram network is fabulous and I love to travel on it whenever I visit.

As a Victorian, I'm sure you'll appreciate the cheekiness of a question this South Australian resident posed to one of the old boys on duty at the Melbourne Tram Museum at Hawthorn a few years ago. I asked whether Melbourne's retention of a tram network when Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth were furiously tearing up their tracks was because the Melbourne City Fathers were prescient... or because they never got round to it.

The particular old boy I spoke to didn't know which! Do you, by any chance?

The saving of the Melbourne tramway system is quite a story. The head of the Melbourne Metropolitan Tramways Board was Major General Risson, a thickset military man, very conservative, very conscious of socially acceptable behaviour but he hadn't become a General for nothing and as far as he was concerned the MMTB was his personal fiefdom. Opposite the General was the Tramways Union secretary, a dead set communist, rough as guts, violent when necessary and very conscious of the wellbeing of his workers. He considered the MMTB to be his own personal fiefdom. There were all the makings of a very heavy industrial confrontation but to the astonishment of everyone the two sat down together and agreed that the real enemy was not each other but the bus companies. As a result the unions and managament worked together like a precise machine confounding the GM and Leyland sales efforts at every opportunity. Risson in particular had a talent for public relations and hardly a day passed without the General being in the press congratulating some young conductor for his excellent appearance or presiding over a new piece of trackwork.

So between them they saved the trams.

On a personal note there was a time when I had a very tough job and having just returned from the Vietnam War found that some nights were something of an ordeal but as I lay in bed fighting off the collywobbles at 5.00 in the morning I would hear the first tram of the day and it was such a friendly noise what with the whirring, clicking of the wheels, zapping of the trolley pole and the ringing of the bell that I would realise that here was another day and things were not so bad and so I would press on.

Like all Melbournites I love trams and the day Melbourne gets rid of them will be a sorry day indeed.

Although to be trapped behind one in Chapel Street Prahran when you are in a hurry makes one pre-disposed to consign them all to hell, but once free a benevolent attitude returns and a fondness for the trams reassets itself.

Edited by sandy, 03 June 2010 - 04:34.


#41 sandy

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 04:02

Posted Image

Interior of 155.

#42 WDH74

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 04:52

The "tram" runs on the rails like a train. However the trolley reference is a contraction of the term "trolleybus" doesn't run on rails. Both are depicted in the picture showing the Kings Cross scene above.


Trolley Bus is definitely not a tram, but the generic "trolley" term is used all over the US to refer to trams.


Makes more sense now. The trolleybuses were used here (usually in major metro areas-they certainly ran in Chicago) I don't think they were as common as trams. I know that my two local rail museums (the Illinois Rail Museum and the Fox River Trolley Museum) call trams "trolleys". The IRM calls them "trolley coaches".

All of which reminds me of the fact that, back in the 40's, the tram line used to run up my street (this is according to my Dad, who grew up here).

-WDH

#43 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 05:54

A little off subject. My father aquired 2 tramcar compressors in the early 60s. And they where quite old then.Probably from when they pulled a lot of trams out of Adelaide. We used to have a tram to Paradise!!! Really.

One has been used as a workshop compressor with a 3hp 3 phase motor on it,and is still in use. And i doubt ever had any maintenance since.The tank is two big oxy bottles welded together.

The other was used mounted in a Vanguard Spacemaster to blow water out of a bore to irrigate a vineyard.That was used for several years until the Vanguard wore out. It boiled itself dry quite a few times.

The Vanguard was aquired from a bloke who aquired it for the overdrive unit. A bloke called Jack Conquest who was involved in motorsport a long time ago. The gearbox was easy to get out, gas cut the floor out and unbolted it from the top. country engineering at its best.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 03 June 2010 - 05:54.


#44 petestenning

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 07:15

Just to confuse some of you the very first Trolley buses in the Maidstone area of the UK did run on the old Tram rails with wheels to suit. There were not many i admit but i suppose it saved money at the time .

I have been told that the ones using the Tram lines were mainly town local services.

The last years of the trolleybus in Maidstone the Buses were bought from other places whose network was being dismantled or the number were being reduced. Maidstone bought several from the South Coast [ Brighton ].





Pete

#45 taylov

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 08:32

Here's one of the trolleys, sorry trolleybuses, that I used to go to school on.

A London six-wheeler sold to Santander in Spain in the 1950s or 1960s, but recovered and restored by the British Trolleybus Society to original London condition and seen here running at the museum at Sandtoft, England.



and this is what it escaped from...

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Tony

Edited by taylov, 03 June 2010 - 08:38.


#46 JimBradshaw

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 08:48

The saving of the Melbourne tramway system is quite a story. The head of the Melbourne Metropolitan Tramways Board was Major General Risson, a thickset military man, very conservative, very conscious of socially acceptable behaviour but he hadn't become a General for nothing and as far as he was concerned the MMTB was his personal fiefdom. Opposite the General was the Tramways Union secretary, a dead set communist, rough as guts, violent when necessary and very conscious of the wellbeing of his workers. He considered the MMTB to be his own personal fiefdom. There were all the makings of a very heavy industrial confrontation but to the astonishment of everyone the two sat down together and agreed that the real enemy was not each other but the bus companies. As a result the unions and managament worked together like a precise machine confounding the GM and Leyland sales efforts at every opportunity. Risson in particular had a talent for public relations and hardly a day passed without the General being in the press congratulating some young conductor for his excellent appearance or presiding over a new piece of trackwork.

So between them they saved the trams.

On a personal note there was a time when I had a very tough job and having just returned from the Vietnam War found that some nights were something of an ordeal but as I lay in bed fighting off the collywobbles at 5.00 in the morning I would hear the first tram of the day and it was such a friendly noise what with the whirring, clicking of the wheels, zapping of the trolley pole and the ringing of the bell that I would realise that here was another day and things were not so bad and so I would press on.

Like all Melbournites I love trams and the day Melbourne gets rid of them will be a sorry day indeed.

Although to be trapped behind one in Chapel Street Prahran when you are in a hurry makes one pre-disposed to consign them all to hell, but once free a benevolent attitude returns and a fondness for the trams reassets itself.


Sandy,

That is for me the best posting I have ever seen on TNF...made my eyes moist

You captured the magic

Quality is always better than quantity

JB

#47 Pullman99

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 09:11

Interior of 155.


Great pics Sandy and thank you so much for sharing this. I have fond memories of riding on the Glasgow trams as a child - the system closed in 1962 - and was born in the same year as London's trams ended so I have always had an interest in tramways and their preservation. I am currently living not too far from the National Tramway Museum at Crich in Derbyshire which is always a delightful place to visit and especially on their event days. I have also been involved in the rescue of a couple of tram bodies with a North West based preservation group.

Crich Tramway Village

Does this thread mean that TNF has now covered every conceivable form of transport? Although, I'm not sure if we have touched on the Bennie Railplane yet! :)

The George Bennie Railplane

Could be wrong, though.

Edited by Pullman99, 03 June 2010 - 09:17.


#48 xlford

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 09:51

Sandy
I'm old enough to remember the Hannah St Depot, off Kings Way in South Melbourne where the BMW Melbourne building now stands. My dad grew up in Middle Park and thought this read Hannah Saint Depot.....

Interesting that Footscray Tram has this destination on it? Not sure if anyone has asked, but did the term Footscray relate to the route they ran, or the class?

Thanks for sharing.

#49 cheapracer

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 10:05

Jeremy, when I was a kid and went to Adelaide in the 60's I rode on a tram thing that ran all the way to near a beach. It went both in the suburbs and onto it's own railway.

I grew up in Melbourne and of course rode around on all the green trams and Red Rattlers.

First time I drove in Melbourne at 18 I had the pleasure of turning right from the center and blocking a tram :lol:

For those not familiar with Melbourne we had a unique situation and in law, that you had to move to the left side of the intersection to turn right so you didn't block the trams (right hand drive).

Edited by cheapracer, 03 June 2010 - 10:06.


#50 Patrick Fletcher

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 10:44

ah, hook turns - everyone should try these in Melbourne.
Back to trams, Sandy have you seen the collection just south of Kilmore - worth a drive down.