49 replies to this topic

[GregY]

Hi All,

A couple years back I purchased the book Formula 1 in Camera 1960-69 by Paul Parker.

While researching other books, I saw that Amazon.com had two used copies of this book for sale (by other parties). To my astonishment, the asking price for one of them was over $900 and over $1,000 for the other.

I found a copy on ebay with an asking price of over $200.

I also found a place selling a copy for $50 (which is around what I paid for my copy two or so years ago).

Can anyone explain these prices to me? Do I own a $50 copy of the book or a $200 copy or a $1,000 copy?

I enjoyed the book, but if I could sell it for $1,000 and by another $50 copy, I probably would!

I am very curious about this, thank you in advance for any information.

Greg

[buckaluck]

Unless they had some sort of special edition or if they were signed other wise if both are in the same condition you have a possible 900-1000 dollar book providing you can find someone that is willing to pay that. There lies the question did they or will they end up selling their books, probably not if there are copies out there for 50 and 200 (again in relatively the same condition).

Buck

[Bjorn Kjer]

Enjoy your book(s) at $50 , but if you are greedy try to sell at a $1000. But I think you can buy more pictures than in the book for that!

[arttidesco]

Something about 'there is no accounting for stupidity' comes to mind, seems like there are a few south sea speculative bubbles in the philobiblian world :-)

If your into pristine unread books probably in their original unopened bubble wrapped Amazon Boxes your copy might be worth a lot of money :-)

I have also noticed that most books on Amazon are available at a variety of prices I can't imagine what makes a $50 book worth a $1000 except stupidity or some weird belief like buying a lottery ticket :-)

I got a well thumbed copy of last September's Motor Sport I could let you have for $100 just send me a PM :-)

[Rob G]

Amazon is a nice resource, but it can be puzzling and frustrating sometimes. I was looking for a reasonably-priced copy of Autocourse 2004-2005, which for some reason seems to be much rarer than any other year since the mid-'90s. After multiple attempts that resulted in seeing price ranges starting at well over $100 American and skyrocketing from there, I finally scored a nice copy at $66. I checked just now, and the range goes from $90 to $256!

[Allan Lupton]

Abebooks show £44 for one in UK and $257/318 from the same seller in the USofA (plus carriage which is not artificially low as it is with Amazon).

[Hamish Robson]

Some recent, but out of print, books seem to command very strange and inflated prices, your F1 in Camera being a good example. I think I bought that for £25ish. Did you buy yours in the USA? Maybe only a few copies made it out there.

Here's another one. This book - Rally Cars by Reinhard Klein - is a great, and great big, rally car photo "coffee table" book which, along with several others in the series, were £20 each in a typical discount book shop on the high street. Now a MINIMUM price on Amazon UK is £175??? I have two of these, I'll keep one in the shrink wrap and plan for a comfortable retirement...




Oooh look - 100 posts...

Edited by Hamish Robson, 16 June 2010 - 11:05.

[Michael Ferner]

I have two of these, I'll keep one in the shrink wrap and plan for a comfortable retirement...

That's a good attitude , who wants to read books anyhow!

[Hamish Robson]

Trust me - the other one is "well thumbed"!

[McGuire]

Recently I wanted a copy of a rather rare, out-of-print American book, but unfortunately it sells for $300 USD or more on Amazon and alibris. But I did some sleuthing around and discovered that the authors still have a number of copies on hand, which they sell through a tiny, nearly invisible website. I paid $42 for a brand new copy in the wrapper. This gave me some license for gloating, I think.

As a book collector, I think there are two kinds of bibliophiles: buyers and pickers. There are those who want a particular book today and will pay whatever the rate and more power to them. Others have the patience to search for bargains. Often we are each a little of both. For me, there's not much fun in paying full retail for a book and having it arrive in your mailbox, though you do have the book to read. But on the other hand, if you can score a rare find at an estate sale or a used book store somewhere, that's pretty enjoyable.

[GregY]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Other than possibly being out of print, I couldn't find any justification for the asking prices above "face value".

It is still interesting to me that two different vendors seem to think it is worth around $1,000.

Greg

[arttidesco]

Recently I wanted a copy of a rather rare, out-of-print American book, but unfortunately it sells for $300 USD or more on Amazon and alibris. But I did some sleuthing around and discovered that the authors still have a number of copies on hand, which they sell through a tiny, nearly invisible website. I paid $42 for a brand new copy in the wrapper. This gave me some license for gloating, I think.

As a book collector, I think there are two kinds of bibliophiles: buyers and pickers. There are those who want a particular book today and will pay whatever the rate and more power to them. Others have the patience to search for bargains. Often we are each a little of both. For me, there's not much fun in paying full retail for a book and having it arrive in your mailbox, though you do have the book to read. But on the other hand, if you can score a rare find at an estate sale or a used book store somewhere, that's pretty enjoyable.

I'd much rather go to the races

[plutoman]

Some recent, but out of print, books seem to command very strange and inflated prices

This sounds like blind optimism on behalf of the seller, but in general books follow the same rules as any other product, and it comes down to two words ... Supply and Demand. Best example I can think of is Chris Nixon's Auto Union Album - the original run sold out and examples were starting to change hands for several hundred pounds each. Then it was reprinted and the prices of the original dropped considerably. Autocourse annuals are printed in huge numbers these days, so there's plenty of them out there changing hands, but the further back you go, the more difficult and expensive they are to find. Simple really, but satisfying when you find a bargain.

[Eric Dunsdon]

Amazon UK are currently advertising a copy of Anthony Pritchards £35 2007 Mille Miglia book for £175!.

[tinkerwinker]

Books are worth what an individual is prepared to pay. If someone is daft enough to pay wildly inflated prices, then more fool them.
On the subject of re-issues, I've always found that as a collector, I will always pay a reasonable extra amount for a first edition.

[fbarrett]

Friends:

I sell automotive books on Amazon (none of the above titles, though). While putting about 600 titles on the site, I noticed that one or two sellers consistently price their books far higher than other sellers do, often by multiples of four or five. Other sellers are consistently realistic--and, I would expect, far more successful.

Frank

Edited by fbarrett, 16 June 2010 - 16:18.

[Paul Parker]

[quote name='GregY' date='Jun 15 2010, 20:36' post='4418890']
Hi All,

A couple years back I purchased the book Formula 1 in Camera 1960-69 by Paul Parker.

While researching other books, I saw that Amazon.com had two used copies of this book for sale (by other parties). To my astonishment, the asking price for one of them was over $900 and over $1,000 for the other.

I found a copy on ebay with an asking price of over $200.

I also found a place selling a copy for $50 (which is around what I paid for my copy two or so years ago).

Can anyone explain these prices to me? Do I own a $50 copy of the book or a $200 copy or a $1,000 copy?

I enjoyed the book, but if I could sell it for $1,000 and by another $50 copy, I probably would!

I am very curious about this, thank you in advance for any information.

Greg


Only $1,000 eh!

Not good enough, I didn't get to be where I am now by writing books that sell for such trifling sums.

Outrageous!

[arttidesco]

Not good enough, I didn't get to be where I am now by writing books that sell for such trifling sums.

Outrageous!

Sounds like a well humoured author :-)

[Arjan de Roos]

Got them all Paul, keep it up!

[rallen]

Got them all Paul, keep it up!

Yes I second that, they are fantastic books and I can't wait for his 1950's volume! any idea when it is due out Paul?

[mfd]

Amazon UK £530
Ebay UK buy it now £30
Mmmm

[David McKinney]

...one or two sellers consistently price their books far higher than other sellers do, often by multiples of four or five. Other sellers are consistently realistic--and, I would expect, far more successful.

I've said it before - if your wife's divorce lawyers say you have to sell your books (or classic car) you have to "try"

[Paul Parker]

Yes I second that, they are fantastic books and I can't wait for his 1950's volume! any idea when it is due out Paul?

Should be at the Goodwood Revival where I will be signing God willing.

[Arjan de Roos]

Le Mans Classic?

[Paul Parker]

Le Mans Classic?

Yes at this time but not at the Goodwood FOS.

[D-Type]

Paul,

If Formula 1 in Camera 1960-69 is commanding silly prices, has the publisher considered a second edition? it appears the demand is there.

[kayemod]

Paul,

If Formula 1 in Camera 1960-69 is commanding silly prices, has the publisher considered a second edition? it appears the demand is there.

If they do, that will certainly stick a pin if the first edition prices bubble.

[Paul Parker]

If they do, that will certainly stick a pin if the first edition prices bubble.

Mmm!

No more Louis Roederer Cristal, no more chateaubriand, no more suits from Dege & Skinner in Savile Row, no more handmade shoes from John Lobb in St. James, the list is endless.

Let's not be hasty about this shall we.

[rallen]

Should be at the Goodwood Revival where I will be signing God willing.

Thanks Paul, is that for the Formula one or Sports Car? 1950's edition?

[Paul Parker]

Thanks Paul, is that for the Formula one or Sports Car? 1950's edition?

Sports Cars

[twillis]

Looks like there's an opportunity here for what stock market traders call arbitrage! I see that I can buy this book on Amazon.ca for
$ 34.65 CDN. while indeed the only one available on amazon.com is $976 US used. I'm gonna buy myself a whole bunch on amazon.ca and get rich!!

Actually, I already own this book and I heartily recommend it.

[kayemod]

Looks like there's an opportunity here for what stock market traders call arbitrage! I see that I can buy this book on Amazon.ca for
$ 34.65 CDN. while indeed the only one available on amazon.com is $976 US used. I'm gonna buy myself a whole bunch on amazon.ca and get rich!!

Ah, perhaps I can interest you in these seventeenth century Dutch tulip bulbs Sir...

[arttidesco]

Sounds like there is some market inefficiency in the global philobiblian markets I wonder how many TNFers will profit

[Allan Lupton]

Looks like there's an opportunity here for what stock market traders call arbitrage! I see that I can buy this book on Amazon.ca for
$ 34.65 CDN. while indeed the only one available on amazon.com is $976 US used. I'm gonna buy myself a whole bunch on amazon.ca and get rich!!

The point that's been missed so far is that there is no evidence that any have been sold for those higher prices.
In other trades items are offered at inflated prices, regardless of whether they will sell, in an attempt to get the public to believe in those inflated prices. When the brain-washing has succeeded, the discounting starts and the goods make (say) 50% of the inflated price which would be (again say) 50% more than the pre-brain-washing going rate.
That is what I would call arbitrage (= arbit[rary] [out]rage!).

[plutoman]

Not sure the Amazon Canada offer is genuine; other titles say 'in stock', whereas this book 'usually ships within 9-11 days'. This suggests that they need to acquire stock from the publisher/distributor, which they probably won't be able to do if it's out of print.

[rwills]

Not sure the Amazon Canada offer is genuine; other titles say 'in stock', whereas this book 'usually ships within 9-11 days'. This suggests that they need to acquire stock from the publisher/distributor, which they probably won't be able to do if it's out of print.

I just ordered one from Amazon Canada so will let you know.

[GregY]

What's somewhat interesting is that there is now only one copy available on Amazon.com. If you see my original post, there were two copies available when I looked, the $900+ copy and a $1,000+ copy.

It looks like the $900+ copy is still available, I wonder what happend to the $1,000+ copy?

[kayemod]

What's somewhat interesting is that there is now only one copy available on Amazon.com. If you see my original post, there were two copies available when I looked, the $900+ copy and a $1,000+ copy.

It looks like the $900+ copy is still available, I wonder what happend to the $1,000+ copy?

Maybe the listing just ran its course? I've had a few listings on Amazon UK, and from memory, they disappear after 6 months if they haven't sold, unless the seller renews them, that is.

[john winfield]

Maybe the listing just ran its course? I've had a few listings on Amazon UK, and from memory, they disappear after 6 months if they haven't sold, unless the seller renews them, that is.

Rob,
That's roughly how it used to be. A book would need relisting after 60 days but, thankfully for small scale book sellers, Amazon now leave us to list or 'delist' as we see fit. Some of the very high prices are 'drop shippers', holding no stock, probably using sophisticated pricing software, hoping to satisfy an order by buying elsewhere and delivering (relatively) slowly. Horrible bunch!
Sometimes though the giant sellers' pricing software can go awry. Often it is meant to monitor prices and, presumably, undercut by a little. If some rival scamp risks listing a valuable book very cheaply for a short while, I believe this can reduce the prices of other similar offerings which can then be snapped up as bargains. This might be a bookseller's urban myth but I like the idea!
John

Edited by john winfield, 21 June 2010 - 22:31.

[arttidesco]

I hope this will be my final comment on this thread but I believe the first law of the internet runs something like 'if its on the internet and it's too good to be true, it usually is'.

Caveat Emptor as they used to say in Rome :-)

[Vitesse2]

I don't know how true it is, but I've seen a suggestion on an eBay message board that these ludicrous prices on Amazon may be a money laundering scam:

Item offered for sale (need not exist)
Item allegedly bought.
Money sent
Item marked as despatched.
Money cleaned.
Multiply by x amount of times
loadsa money!

[john winfield]

I don't know how true it is, but I've seen a suggestion on an eBay message board that these ludicrous prices on Amazon may be a money laundering scam:

Vitesse, you might be right and this may happen, although Amazon do monitor unusual trading behaviour. Perhaps, though, if they are receiving their rightful commission from the 'sale', there is a temptation for them not to look too closely!

From my own experience, the sellers who wildly overprice their books are a mixed bunch. The same names crop up all the time, some with almost all of their stock priced very high, some with just a few books two or three times more expensive than the competition. I don't understand how the former make any sales (perhaps these are the money launderers!) but the latter might just be 'seeing what happens' or, alternatively, might be benefiting from a quirk within the Amazon system. For example, if you are browsing Amazon and have found a book that interests you ( or have been happy with a previous purchase from a particular seller), you might want to know what other titles that seller is currently listing. If you click on the seller's name, and then on 'storefront', you can browse their offerings, find something else you like and click on the book title for more details. What you see then is just that one copy, from that seller, with none of the competing offers being displayed. This might lead naive or rushed shoppers to buy something mischievously overpriced purely because they can't judge relative value for money. They can of course, if they return to a more general Amazon search. Anyway, those are just a few thoughts.

I'm probably teaching grandma to suck eggs here but the 'storefront' feature is very useful on Amazon for seeing what smaller.specialist sellers might have listed. Also, if someone is looking for a specific book, even if he knows the ISBN, it's worth a few different searches without the ISBN, using the minimum number of words for title and author. Amazon lost control of book listings on their site some years ago and, as a result, many titles make multiple appearances, some with slight variations in title, author, spelling etc. It's often possible to find much better value in one group of listings than in the others.

[arttidesco]

I'm probably teaching grandma to suck eggs here.

Keep teaching grandma, she needs to learn I heard about one the other day who got ripped off £14K for a bogus roof repair:-(

[twillis]

I see that Abe Books has two sellers offering this book in the $ 250 - $ 350 dollar range.

[Seppi_0_917PA]

An amusing story on Amazon used book pricing:

Amazon’s $23,698,655.93 book about flies

[Alan Cox]

A couple years back I purchased the book Formula 1 in Camera 1960-69 by Paul Parker.
While researching other books, I saw that Amazon.com had two used copies of this book for sale (by other parties). To my astonishment, the asking price for one of them was over $900 and over $1,000 for the other.

Strange that, since this thread was started, the prices quoted seem to have returned to the real world. A large number available on Amazon.com around the $32-$45 mark (with only one loony advertising his at $179.67). On Amazon.co.uk prices start from around £20. As the author will confirm, these books are bargains at these prices

[D-Type]

This thread raises three thoughts
(1) Amazon and Abebooks have made it far easier for small booksellers (and e-bay vendors) to evaluate the "market value" of their stock. This means the likelihood of "one of us" picking up a bargain is reduced.
(2) Could the subject of the original posting be a bookseller "talking up the price" - putting high prices on Amazon from one of his businesses to inflate the "average market price" and allow his other business to sell the book at an inflated price, but well below his silly one.
(3) what value should I put on my books for insurance purposes?

[Arjan de Roos]

This thread raises three thoughts
(1) Amazon and Abebooks have made it far easier for small booksellers (and e-bay vendors) to evaluate the "market value" of their stock. This means the likelihood of "one of us" picking up a bargain is reduced.
(2) Could the subject of the original posting be a bookseller "talking up the price" - putting high prices on Amazon from one of his businesses to inflate the "average market price" and allow his other business to sell the book at an inflated price, but well below his silly one.
(3) what value should I put on my books for insurance purposes?

(1) Far easier also to mistake the "market value". Bookshops unknowing the real value of a book may estimate a price on condition, content and size of the book, others will estimate strongly to be sure, but with an incorrect "starting price". I wonder if the likelyhood reduces.
(2) Echoing on the internet is not always easy to proof but certainly the case at sites like E-Bay. Beware!
(3) For recently bought books: the catalogue value. If you buy a book at a sale, take the original price at the launch. For older books you just have to consult several sources, not just Abebooks, but listen to the shops or read catalogues. Also listen to your own voice and take your time.

[kayemod]

Also listen to your own voice and take your time.

Don't be too impatient, few books are so rare that they don't appear fairly frequently, if you are outbid on eBay just wait, another copy will come along eventually. Only pay what any book is worth to you, I've made successful lower offers on books that I thought were overpriced on AbeBooks. On higher priced items, I've found that most sellers are open to sensible negotiation, especially on stock they've been offering on there for some time.

[antony duprat]

Paul Parker's books here...at 51€

http://www.editions-...m/,fr,5,551.cfm