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Farina's private entries


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#1 HistoryFan

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 16:27

Giuseppe Farina drove some Grand Prix privately entered.

1935 he entered a private Maserati 6C-34 in some Grand Prix.
Who owned that car?
Who helped him in the races? Mechanics or something like that?



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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 17:11

These were Scuderia Subalpina entries. At the time, Subalpina's relationship to Maserati was similar to that between Scuderia Ferrari and Alfa Romeo.

#3 Rob G

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 02:21

Farina's entrant at Monaco that year was Gino Rovere, while three Subalpina cars were driven by Etancelin, Zehender and Dusio. Rovere was also the entrant of Farina's car at Nice later in the season.

#4 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 06:16

Rovere was also one of the makers of Subalpina .

#5 HistoryFan

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 08:41

Ah okay, thank you very much!

#6 HistoryFan

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 11:49

The same questions to private entries by Juan Manuel Fangio:

- He drove an private BRM P15 in the Non championship race Grand Prix d'Albi 1952. Perhaps that was an works BRM because he later that year he drove another Non championship race with a works BRM? Who owned the car? Who was entrant? Who helped him by this entry?
- He entered a private Maserati 250F in the French GP 1958. Who owned that car? Who helped him by this self-named entry? Perhaps it was Scuderia Sud Americana because he earlier that year drove a Maserati 250F for that team in the Argentinian GP.

And another private entry: Now by Alberto Ascari: He drive a private Cisitalia Fiat D46 in El Gezirah (Egypt), a F2 race. The same questions also for this entry...
?

Edited by HistoryFan, 22 July 2010 - 12:05.


#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 12:19

Both works entries. There was no such thing as a non-works BRM in 1952.

The 1958 French GP was essentially Maserati's last F1 entry, the company being nearly bankrupt and having officially closed its racing division. The same car - the so-called Piccolo - had earlier been tested at Modena, Spa and the Nürburgring. Fangio had announced that he would not defend his WDC title in 1958, but had not officially retired from racing: he ran in Argentina, as you say, and had also tried Indianapolis for the first time (and that's another story). I think Fangio just wanted a European swansong and if it was actually entered in his name it was just a front for legal reasons, since the Piccolo was a works development of the earlier 250Fs. Later in the season it was entered by Temple Buell - AFAIK the jury's still out on how much works involvement there was in that, but perhaps Messrs McKinney and Hobkirk know more?

Re Ascari: follow this link and scroll down to "Egyptian Catastrophe":

http://forix.autospo...8w/italy47.html

Edited by Vitesse2, 22 July 2010 - 12:23.


#8 HistoryFan

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 12:30

Thank you.

#9 HistoryFan

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 12:44

These were Scuderia Subalpina entries. At the time, Subalpina's relationship to Maserati was similar to that between Scuderia Ferrari and Alfa Romeo.


So why didn't the team then survive?
And are there more details about founder Count Luigi Della Chiesa?

#10 "Shangry-La"

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 13:00

These were Scuderia Subalpina entries. At the time, Subalpina's relationship to Maserati was similar to that between Scuderia Ferrari and Alfa Romeo.

Unfortunately that is not correct.
Throughout 1935 Farina's Maserati 6C-34 was entered by Gino Rovere himself, not by Scuderia Subalpina.
Rovere's emblem can clearly be seen on the side of the car in contemporary photographs.
The Subalpina 6C-34s in 1935 were a separate team of cars normally driven by Etancelin and Zehender.
Farina did however drive a Maserati V8 RI for Subalpina in three races late in 1935.

#11 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 15:03

A bit off topic , post 7 , Maserati was not near bankrupt.


Edited by Bjørn Kjer, 22 July 2010 - 15:28.


#12 D-Type

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 17:03

A bit off topic , post 7 , Maserati was not near bankrupt.

Correct. I think they were bankrupt - or at least that would have been the case in some countries. They were certainly under the control of a receiver, as we would term it in Britain. But Italian law works differently.

Edited by D-Type, 22 July 2010 - 17:04.


#13 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 17:29

I just opened the "Maserati question" thread to continue this matter if wanted.

#14 HistoryFan

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 08:13

So why didn't the team (Scuderia Subalpina then survive?
And are there more details about founder Count Luigi Della Chiesa?


That are the questions I am now interested in...
You said Scuderia Subalpina (Maserati) was the same as Scuderia Ferrari (Alfa Romeo), but Ferrari still is alive, Scuderia Subalpina not. Why not? What were their problems? Was it because there were much business men involved which time by time withdraw because they are not longer interested? Or what were the differences that Ferrari could survive, Scuderia Subalpina not?


#15 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 08:59

You should know that Scuderia Ferrari started in 1929 as a private organization/TEAM .(Many driver , many cars, many Alfas). The relatively soon became the works Alfa team untill Alfa decided to open their own team again in 1938 , thus Ferrari closed down (1938)to reenter after World War 2 as an entrant/WORKS and their own cars.

Maserati did take in Scuderia Subalpina as their "works" team in 1934 and 1935 and in 1936 it was the Scuderia Torino , then they managed their works entries themselves (they were anyway after 36 doing most in smaller classes.) IF I REMEMBER RIGHT.

If you want to compare ,it should be MASERATI & ALFA as well as Subalpina/Torino & Scuderia Ferrari. OK?

Edited by Bjørn Kjer, 23 July 2010 - 09:05.


#16 HistoryFan

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 09:19

Yes, but Ferrari then build their own cars and reenter after the war, Scuderia Subalpina didn't. And the questions is, why not. The conditions were not less good than it were at Ferrari...

#17 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 09:34

Enzo Ferrari was a good businessman and EARNED money right from the start of his Team in 1929 , he knew some well funded men , and after 1938 he had a 5 year ban to do racing , but ideas and money enough to start building his own cars. (Scuderia Ferrari to 1938 is not quite the same as Ferrari from 1945 apart from Enzo Ferrari IMO.

Rovere and Della Chiesa did it different , their intentions not being that of Enzo Ferrari , so you could say they SPEND money instead , and perhaps soon found it too expensive.

#18 HistoryFan

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 09:44

Sounds logical. Perhaps it was also the success that was missing: If I'm right, the Scuderia Subalpina only win two Voiturette races: Luigi Castelbarco (Nürburgring 1934) and Giuseppe Farina (Brno 1934).

Edited by HistoryFan, 23 July 2010 - 09:50.


#19 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 09:56

Absolutely it had with succes to do. Maserati cars were not particular succesfull in those years . (except for voiturette races).If you enter as a "works" team and have little or no succes its easy to disagree with eventual partners and/or give up. That was not the case with Scuderia Ferrari/Alfa combo.

Edited by Bjørn Kjer, 23 July 2010 - 09:57.


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#20 Arjan de Roos

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 10:35

That are the questions I am now interested in...
You said Scuderia Subalpina (Maserati) was the same as Scuderia Ferrari (Alfa Romeo), but Ferrari still is alive, Scuderia Subalpina not. Why not? What were their problems? Was it because there were much business men involved which time by time withdraw because they are not longer interested? Or what were the differences that Ferrari could survive, Scuderia Subalpina not?


At that time also Maserati felt the performance of the German teams outpaced that of them. The Scuderia Subalpina was founded by Count Luigi Della Chiesa at the end of 1934 to make a team that could take them on with the proper Maserati cars. Basically Maserati handed the Grand Prix activities to SS. This semi works team was backed by Giorgio Ambrosini (racing manager, Siata owner), Giorgio Giusti and Gino Rovere (racing driver himself and later Maserati president). Drivers were Etancelin, Zehender, Farina, Ghersi, Siena, Scarfiotti, Varzi, Lehoux and Rovere. Della Chiesa raced only once I believe. Racing activities limited to 1935 season as they changed their name to Scuderia Torino for 1936 racing along with the V8RI designed as the answer to the German power. Likely the poor results lead to backers leaving the team.

Maserati returned with a factory GP team in 1938.

Edited by Arjan de Roos, 23 July 2010 - 10:38.