88 replies to this topic

[wolf sun]

After the hairpin - the cars came down the hill, around the hairpin, then got airborne as they went back over the hill before passing the pits and turning left into Redgate

And there was no jump when the track fell away on the way down to the hairpin, was there?

[Tim Murray]

Apparently there was, so my earlier post is not quite correct (although I don't remember ever seeing any photos). Here's what Bill Boddy wrote in his contemporary account of the 1937 Donington GP (from the Motor Sport Book of Donington).

Still race-goers are talking of the immense acceleration of the German cars, of their astonishing leaps from the bumps before and after Melbourne Corner ...

[raceannouncer2003]

• Nordschleife (before 1970)
  Flugplatz
  Breidscheid (not sure about the exact location, either on the bridge or shortly afterwards)
  Kesselchen
  Brünnchen
  Pflanzgarten
  shortly before Schwalbenschwanz (?)
  I think of these only Flugplatz and Pflanzgarten are jumps today
  
• Montlhéry
  Couard? Where exactly was this located?
  
• Montjuich
  Before the first sharp lefthander
  
• Cadwell Park
  The Mountain
  
• Brooklands
  On Member's Banking, where the banking crossed the River Wey
  
• Donington Park (Prewar)
  Before and after the hairpin
  
• Lobethal

Westwood, Deer's Leap

Vince H.

[LittleChris]

See the attached map from Darrens site.

http://www.silhouet....cks/montmap.jpg

I think Couard may be the left hander immediately before the straight with Cote Lapize written next to it. The contours on the map indicate it is quite steep immediately after the corner & I remember seeing a photo some time ago showing this.

Of course there's a well known photo of Mika Hakkinen airborne at Adelaide some years ago, but that was due to his hitting a kerb so not really in the spirit of the question

Edited by LittleChris, 09 September 2010 - 21:09.

[Ray Bell]

And Bathurst.... Mt Panorama Circuit...

The second hump in Conrod Straight saw almost every car off the deck. Some also got a little air over the hump in Mountain Straight.

[vc1954]

And Bathurst.... Mt Panorama Circuit...

The second hump in Conrod Straight saw almost every car off the deck. Some also got a little air over the hump in Mountain Straight.

And TZ750 bikes were airborne past the drive in as well.

Edited by vc1954, 09 September 2010 - 22:07.

[LittleChris]

Back straight at St Jovite ( Mt Tremblant ) . Mark Donohue, Brian Redman and I think Jackie Oliver all had substantial shunts in Can Am cars there, the latter being the only one uninjured

[RacingCompagniet]

I have heard that the Hämenlinna (spelling?) circuit in Finland has got some pretty dramatic elevation changes.

[wolf sun]

See the attached map from Darrens site.

http://www.silhouet....cks/montmap.jpg

I think Couard may be the left hander immediately before the straight with Cote Lapize written next to it. The contours on the map indicate it is quite steep immediately after the corner & I remember seeing a photo some time ago showing this.

Of course there's a well known photo of Mika Hakkinen airborne at Adelaide some years ago, but that was due to his hitting a kerb so not really in the spirit of the question

You're most probably right, Chris - I have a suspicion that there might have been two jumps in the Couard section, as I've seen pictures of cars airborne after a right-hander on Autodiva, but seem to remember a photo of a yumping Matra from an old Echappement magazine which looked like it was taken at a different place. Track gradients (also found on Autodiva) at least suggest the possibility of two jumps there...

As to kerb hopping, wasn't that also the problem with the original Scheckter chicane at Zandvoort?

[wolf sun]

• Nordschleife (before 1970)
  Flugplatz
  Breidscheid (not sure about the exact location, either on the bridge or shortly afterwards)
  Kesselchen
  Brünnchen
  Pflanzgarten
  shortly before Schwalbenschwanz (?)
  I think of these only Flugplatz and Pflanzgarten are jumps today
  
• Montlhéry
  Couard (maybe two spots there)
  
• Montjuich
  Before the first sharp lefthander
  
• Cadwell Park
  The Mountain
  
• Brooklands
  On Member's Banking, where the banking crossed the River Wey
  
• Donington Park (Prewar)
  Before and after the hairpin
  
• Lobethal
  Four places (which?)
  
• Westwood
  Deer's leap
  
• Bathurst
  Conrod Straight
  Mountain Straight
  
• St.Jovite/Mont Tremblant
  Back straight

[wolf sun]

I have heard that the Hämenlinna (spelling?) circuit in Finland has got some pretty dramatic elevation changes.

True...it also features a bridge where track crosses track. Not sure about jumps, I'll see if I can find something.

[LittleChris]

As to kerb hopping, wasn't that also the problem with the original Scheckter chicane at Zandvoort?;)

For airborne stunts how about the chicane they put in the middle of the Esses at Watkins Glen in 1975 ? Seem to remember Motoring News in the UK publishing series of photos the best of which was Vittorio performing a pike with triple salko (sic) over that one

see three quarters of the way down the thread attached

http://www.4tforum.g...p...6&start=735

[wenoopy]

Lobethal... about four times per lap...

Can't nominate corners, however. And all but one was at a corner, I think.

Never had the opportunity to go to Lobethal, but in the "official 50-race history of the AGP", with which you may not be completely unfamiliar, reference is made to the serious accident of 1939 AGP winner Allan Tomlinson in the next year's race "ending against a tree on the descent into Lobethal" ... " leading ...with just two laps to go" ... "Airborne over the crest, he came upon Broughton's limping Morgan in the middle of the road."

[ggnagy]

Anyone seen Chuck Brandt? Maybe he can tell us some about the dip at the end of the bridge at Lake Garnett, KS. I recall hearing anecdotes that it was commonly a car launch point. (picture from Chuck's website, taken by his son, Duncan. )

[LittleChris]

I think it's a pretty steep climb from the exit of the Gooseneck at the Isle Of Man

[MCS]

...Also from Knickerbrook up Clay Hill at Oulton Park is deceptively steep and doesn't come across on TV...

Paul M

Somebody mentioned in another thread the accident that Alo Lawler had in his F2 Lola in 1977 at the top of Clay Hill, just after the crest under the Dunlop Bridge. The car had gone "light" and Alo was lucky to survive a massive shunt. And no, he didn't hit the Water Tower building.

During practice the late Frank Hall had been concerned that a number of the F1/F5000/F2 cars were very unstable at the top of the rise and had returned to the same spot for the race in the belief that something could happen. What transpired of course was the astonishing sequence of pictures that Autosport published at the time.

Edited by MCS, 25 September 2010 - 13:26.

[Michael Ferner]

I think it's a pretty steep climb from the exit of the Gooseneck at the Isle Of Man

... and a pretty decent decline down to Governor's Bridge, too!

[LittleChris]

... and a pretty decent decline down to Governor's Bridge, too!

I probably should've qualified my comment about the climb from the Gooseneck by saying that I meant for the following few hundred yards rather than right up the Mountain since I don't think the climb after that is particularly steep as they head towards Joey's/26th milestone. Coming off the Mountain, I guess the steepest part is from Creg ny Baa down to the new corner at Brandish or, as Michael notes, from Signpost down towards Governors

[Michael Ferner]

I meant the part from Sign Post onwards, although I wasn't sure where exactly it starts to get that steep. Except for one memorable onboard-camera viewing, I have to rely on photographs (or, more accurately, memory thereof!) to gauge the circuit features, but the many pictures from Governor's (probably the most popular vantage point for photogs) often show the steep hill in the background.

[simonlewisbooks]

The jump (or at least one of them) at Montlhery as seen during the 1961 1000kms.
The Mairesse/Bianchi 250GT SWB is demonstrating how much suspension travel it featured

[gazza888]

Cars getting airbourne:
Eastern Creek - The brow just before Turn 4
Brands Hatch - the old Dingle Dell chicane, i suppose more from the kerbs than the incline though.

[Rob Semmeling]

How about San Jose?

[wolf sun]

How about San Jose?

...and thank you for that picture, Simon Lewis!

[D-Type]

Judged purely from photos, the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca looks pretty steep.

[lanciaman]

Waterford Hills near Pontiac, Michigan, is a longtime club circuit featuring an up-the-hill-turn-sharply-right-down-the-hill series that gets the car light, has you looking at treetops, and then has you hoping there's nothing amiss ahead because you can't see it. Very stimulating.

[seccotine]

[Hieronymus]

I guess you chaps have never been to Kyalami. The climb op Leeukop was fit for a baboon with a walking stick and the drop down to Crowthorne continued forever. New circuit...the mineshaft drop!

[terryshep]

I probably should've qualified my comment about the climb from the Gooseneck by saying that I meant for the following few hundred yards rather than right up the Mountain since I don't think the climb after that is particularly steep as they head towards Joey's/26th milestone. Coming off the Mountain, I guess the steepest part is from Creg ny Baa down to the new corner at Brandish or, as Michael notes, from Signpost down towards Governors

Greg Willys up to and after Sarah's Cottage is steeper than the drop to Brandish. Exit of the Gooseneck is very steep but only briefly and if you want steep, try the inside line at Mere Hairpin at Scarborough! Incidentally, if we are talking bikes and flying, there's plenty of places on the TT circuit where a fast bike parts company with the road.

Eau Rouge at Spa is a lot steeper than it looks on TV and we shouldn't overlook Clermont Ferrand, unfortunately no longer used for F1..

[simonlewisbooks]

...and thank you for that picture, Simon Lewis!

You're welcome Mr Wolf.

I was lucky to pick up a batch of 1960/61 Montlhery slides at Beaulieu Autojumble in the late 80s. One or two others are also from this location .
The Paris 1000kms entry back then was wall to wall 250GT SWBs, DB4 GTs and Zagatos. Imagine the auction value of that grid today... .
Even the winner of last weekend's £113,000,000 euro lottery (lucky sod...) would have struggled to buy them all.

[jackal]

The opening post does say "tarmac rallies" so I nominate Longcross near Chobham where the tarmac surfaced 'tank testing' inclines were often used on special stages.
The inclines were 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 , I seem to recall, and you could get a great deal of 'air' if you were daft enough...
If you did this with enough enthusiasm the resulting flat landing was likely to push the front struts up through the bonnet so it wasn't an ideal approach to take!
They were very popular viewing points, as you can imagine

The same stages also included the low-banked oval track that's been so popular with motoring magazines for photo shoots and the 'snake' with it's fairly impressive climbs and drops, which has been used in many feature films including the fairly recent CHILDREN OF MEN and Francois Truffaut's FARENHEIT 451 back in the 60s....as well as GEORGE AND MILDRED in the 80s....

Last I heard the place was being sold off and 'developed' does anyone have an update on this?

Hello

I was an apprentice at Chobham between 1985-1989. Quite an amazing experience getting involved in all the goings on.

The main site is now home to a few small businesses but mainly used for filming. Parts of Foyles War, the latest Batman film, the BBC1 Primeval series, lots of Spooks and many more use the various buildings on the site. One episode of Foyles war about the bouncing bomb had an office with a whole bunch of drawings and a model of the bomb in it. I was up there doing some work a while back and took a prowl around the varios places I trained and then worked. The office in the episode was the apprentice training workshop where we spent our first year. In another part of the site I walked into hospital wards for another series. As for car related Tv things there was some filming done up there for a series called Honest John about a car delear.

The best part of my prowl around was finding a whole bunch of photos and one of me with other apprentices.

The test track is still used by lots of mags and photo shoots as well as cropping up in films/TV series. Motorsport continues with the odd sprint and rally though they are non-spectator events.

When I was there F1 cars would turn up so all the apprentices would jump on the big old green military bicyles and cycle over the bridge to watch. There was a 70mph limit on the track but I think it was waived. Quite alot of racing cars would use the place. to be honest. It's a dangerous place as if you get it wrong you just go inot the trees. Motorbikes were allowed to use the place until somone died.

I think that person was the brother of Michael Aspell but I may be wrong.

Chobham test track was also where the mini was launched to the press.

Regards

Carl

Edited by jackal, 11 October 2010 - 20:55.

[LittleChris]

It's a dangerous place as if you get it wrong you just go inot the trees. Motorbikes were allowed to use the place until somone died.

I think that person was the brother of Michael Aspell but I may be wrong.

Alan Aspel, about whom there is a thread on the Motorcycle Racing Nostalgia Forum

http://forums.autosp...howtopic=127712


Chris

[brucemoxon]

With this thread in mind, I took a few pictures from The Esses at Bathurst this weekend, trying to show part of the drop.

These photos were taken from the same spot (within a metre or so) and were shot from opposite the second right-hander (the first being Skyline).

This is a car cresting Skyline. They're already on the brakes here and will be all the way to The Dipper (maybe a prod on the throttle to settle / rebalance a car)



And is of another car just at the apex of The Dipper.



Oh, and the cars, respectively, are an Alfa GTAM replica and a Holden Monaro, both running in the Touring Car Masters (older cars, with older technology, but not really historic).


Bruce Moxon

[Ray Bell]

They'll be way too slow then, Bruce...

You don't hold the brakes from Skyline to the Dipper if you're serious.

[brucemoxon]

They'll be way too slow then, Bruce...

You don't hold the brakes from Skyline to the Dipper if you're serious.

From 1:45 to 1:52 - sounds like trailing throttle all the way to me. This is with a car with downforce and good brakes. The track's changed Ray.



Bruce Moxon

[wolf sun]

You're welcome Mr Wolf.

I was lucky to pick up a batch of 1960/61 Montlhery slides at Beaulieu Autojumble in the late 80s. One or two others are also from this location .
The Paris 1000kms entry back then was wall to wall 250GT SWBs, DB4 GTs and Zagatos. Imagine the auction value of that grid today... .
Even the winner of last weekend's £113,000,000 euro lottery (lucky sod...) would have struggled to buy them all.

Any chance of you mayyyyybe, perhaps, time permitting, posting those one or two others...?

The trouble with many circuits is, 90 percent of the pictures you get to see are from the same two or three locations (think Spa, Eau Rouge, La Source) and in the case of Montlhéry that seems to be the Start/Finish area, banking in the background.

*Awaits to be proved wrong by more knowledgeable TNFers*

[ZOOOM]

Watch this old movie from back in the days....
Meadowdale just outside Chicago, USA. The track was in use from 1958 through about 1968.
At the 2:47 time through the movie you can clearly see one of the most spacticular "dips" on ANY race course!
Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

ZOOOM

Edited by ZOOOM, 13 October 2010 - 19:38.

[Les Dalton]

Just look at this short You Tube clip of Josh Brooks riding the HM Plant Honda during the Cadwell Park round of the British Superbikes in August,did he tame the MOUNTAIN, or what!!!
Regards from France,
Les Dalton.

[k1w1taxi]

The most frightening parts of Mt Panorama are the entire run across the TOP of the mountain at very high speeds on the sweepers,followed by The Chase as second most dangerous area.
If you make it over Skyline and approach The Dipper,your speed by then is actually quite slow,although it is of course a tight and hugely super-elevated corner,then downhill from there
the quite steep but flowing tunnel run to Forest Elbow seems to rarely have accidents,let alone injuries.The long Conrod Straight pre-Caltex Chase must have been a worry on the last hump,but the
Chase,built to improve safety,has not stopped this from being a very dangerous place,as the approach gradient overall is not super steep,but is relentlessly downhill for a very long time.If you
get unstuck coming into the chase at 250 or 300 km/h,neither the gravel traps or the runoff area can guarantee safety.Cars multiple roll hitting the gravel side on,or run right on at Chase Corner
and cause havoc re-entering the course before the Bridge.

What I'd love to see on youtube is Bartlett's 100mph lap on the old circuit !

As amply demonstrated by Fabian Coulthard at this years 1000


Cheers
Lee

[Graham Clayton]

The Vale motocrcycle circuit at Bathurst had a blind drop off Mt Tamar, according to this description:

http://www.visitbath...le-circuit.html

http://theracingline...ralia/Vale.html