65 replies to this topic

[Mr j]

I am curious about what the general belief is in what team will be the the most winning team during this decade. Will it be Ferrari, the most succesful team in the history of F1, or McLaren who has shown perhaps the most impressing development skills the last couple of years or Red Bull who is dominating this years season? Or could it be Mercedes or Renault, with their new management team, in the long term?

I don't know myself but if I would make a bet I would go for Mercedes not only because of the engines they make but also because I think they work in a more methodical and a longer term perspective than the other teams do.

What do you think?

Edited by Mr j, 22 July 2010 - 19:59.

[Fastcake]

As a McLaren fan I would want McLaren.

As a softie, I would want Williams



Really I don't want anyone dominating.

Edited by Fastcake, 22 July 2010 - 20:01.

[Massacrator]

2000 decade

Ferrari 7
Renault 2
Brawn 1

So I'd say Ferrari

[Mr j]

2000 decade

Ferrari 7
Renault 2
Brawn 1

So I'd say Ferrari

What about 2010-2019?

[Massacrator]

What about 2010-2019?

Ferrari

[verde]

I sincerely foresee a black decade for McLaren. Now the partnership with Mercedes is over, they will have some good moments until the day the team is supposed to walk by itself. When I say this, I mean exactly the engine issue and the money Mercedes-Benz used to put on McLaren's wallet. And I don't think this day is so far.

I would gamble my money on Mercedes and Red Bull at first. And with Domenicali, I guess Ferrari can come back to the days of typical italian mess.

[Sakae]

I think next will be an end of the era. No more F1 as we know it. Something else might replace it, but I do not think F1 will survive in current form. I could think about three reasons for that.

Retirements

Distribution of benefits

Uniformity (all the same) will be probably greatest issue; people want to see another Schumacher-like annihilator (say Alonso or Hamilton), but not bland of ordinary. This is not a blue collar sport; people within are snobs in hart, and they will play that card at some point.

Edited by Sakae, 22 July 2010 - 20:18.

[Birelman]

2000 decade

Ferrari 7
Renault 2
Brawn 1

So I'd say Ferrari

Yeah, well, how'd they do in the 80es, and 90es?

Last few seasons suggest they're heading in their proper place on the grid, very powerful, but very clumsy as they were back then, I personally love it!!!!

They're getting Massacrated!!

Edited by Birelman, 22 July 2010 - 20:18.

[Radoye]

I hope nobody will dominate...

[Fastcake]

I sincerely foresee a black decade for McLaren. Now the partnership with Mercedes is over, they will have some good moments until the day the team is supposed to walk by itself. When I say this, I mean exactly the engine issue and the money Mercedes-Benz used to put on McLaren's wallet. And I don't think this day is so far.

I would gamble my money on Mercedes and Red Bull at first. And with Domenicali, I guess Ferrari can come back to the days of typical italian mess.

McLaren have had plenty of success without Mercedes

[JPW]

Ferrari, just like it should be

[Massacrator]

Ferrari, just like it should be

[verde]

McLaren have had plenty of success without Mercedes

OK, the times with Honda, with TAG Porsche and even with Peugeot. Except for the years before Ron Dennis and Mansour Ojjeh and 1993, there was always somebody on the background of the team.

But now the intention seems to turn into a 100% independent team. I even heard about building their own engines. It's completely different from having somebody to share the obligations. And I really don't see McLaren maintaining the same level of grandeur having to make everything alone.

[Fastcake]

OK, the times with Honda, with TAG Porsche and even with Peugeot. Except for the years before Ron Dennis and Mansour Ojjeh and 1993, there was always somebody on the background of the team.

But now the intention seems to turn into a 100% independent team. I even heard about building their own engines. It's completely different from having somebody to share the obligations. And I really don't see McLaren maintaining the same level of grandeur having to make everything alone.

Well the McLaren Group has grown considerably, with the setting up of their car business, so I don't see why they would go down just by making the engines. If they are going to introduce them come the new regs in 2013, they shouldn't suffer more than anyone else would.

[Don_Humpador]

The team of stewards.

[domhnall]

Villeneuve Durango

[Lights]

5% in, it's impossible to tell.

Obviously it would be bad if a team would truly dominate, but then you don't exactly have to dominate like Ferrari did in 2002 and 2004, to actually dominate a decade.

[DisruptioN]

Ferrari will never return to its dominance of the last few years.


If any team were to dominate this decade I would say McLaren has the best shot.

[Dunder]

No idea, a huge amount can and will change over a period of ten years.

[Biggles Flies Undone]

Ferrari have only recently overtaken williams wins per start ratio despite having a bigger budget. But the era of running 2 test teams on 3 factory owned test tracks is over so it's logical to conclude the period of dominance is over.

In the early 1990's I used to run an old 308 GTS. At the time the race team were the joke of the pitlane having gone almost 2 years without a race win and previously gone 19 years without a championship despite having a budget at times 4 times larger than their nearest rivals. This seemed to rub off on the value of the used road cars. I could afford one then but not in the Schumacher era !

I do wonder if the brand is now descending into a tacky gift shop and theme park mentality. I had the misfortune to walk past the Regent street shop the other day. Very low rent. A neat reflection of what an absolute shower some of the senior race team management are !

Edited by Biggles Flies Undone, 22 July 2010 - 21:42.

[undersquare]

Nobody has any sponsors these days. Renault pay for Renault, Merc for Merc and so on. There's nobody on the Ferrari engine cover or Mac rear wing.

So I don't see Mercedes continuing, the Board won't pay enough to win and they won't pay anything to be 4th.
I think Ferrari are missing Max too much, lack inspiring leadership, and the 2013 CA could cut their extra slice of the pie.
Red Bull could be up there for a decade if Dietrich decides and people keep buying his cool fizzy drink, but at any time an analysis could show no new drinks buyers are coming from the F1 circus.
So most likely is McLaren, building up the car business as a stable source of funding, giving Vodafone great value with the Lewis and Jense show, and generally enjoying F1 with the almost level playing field.

[Massacrator]

Nobody has any sponsors these days. Renault pay for Renault, Merc for Merc and so on. There's nobody on the Ferrari engine cover or Mac rear wing.

So I don't see Mercedes continuing, the Board won't pay enough to win and they won't pay anything to be 4th.
I think Ferrari are missing Max too much, lack inspiring leadership, and the 2013 CA could cut their extra slice of the pie.
Red Bull could be up there for a decade if Dietrich decides and people keep buying his cool fizzy drink, but at any time an analysis could show no new drinks buyers are coming from the F1 circus.
So most likely is McLaren, building up the car business as a stable source of funding, giving Vodafone great value with the Lewis and Jense show, and generally enjoying F1 with the almost level playing field.

So McLaren has a car business and Ferrari doesn't?

Also, I'm pretty sure that if Fernando is in Ferrari for a decade, Santander will be in Ferrari for a decade

[undersquare]

So McLaren has a car business and Ferrari doesn't?

Also, I'm pretty sure that if Fernando is in Ferrari for a decade, Santander will be in Ferrari for a decade

Ferrari will have the funding, no question. Though the extra £60m they get from FOM might reduce.

Question is, do they have the leadership? ATM it seems to consist of that nice administrator Stefano, Mad Monty, and one of the drivers.

[Massacrator]

Ferrari will have the funding, no question. Though the extra £60m they get from FOM might reduce.

Question is, do they have the leadership? ATM it seems to consist of that nice administrator Stefano, Mad Monty, and one of the drivers.

Ferrari has to dominate. It's in its history, in its "blood". If Stefano doesn't deliver, next please. I'm sure Luca thinks this way too.

We have the funding, we have a very good team of people, and the best driver (by words of the F1 drivers) of the world.

I'm sure Ferrari will have a word in this "dominance".

Edited by Massacrator, 22 July 2010 - 22:21.

[undersquare]

Ferrari has to dominate. It's in its history, in its "blood". If Stefano doesn't deliver, next please. I'm sure Luca thinks this way too.

We have the funding, we have a very good team of people, and the best driver (by words of the F1 drivers) of the world.

I'm sure Ferrari will have a word in this "dominance".

Well Ferrrari's history is long and distinguished, but quite up-and-down. And Monty can't just go out and hire a TP, that's how Toyota, Honda and BMW failed.

The engineering of the car seems top notch atm, I do agree.

But I wouldn't expect too much as a result of that Bild survey. It shows Fernando is up against the meanest meanie of them all

[Mauseri]

New decade starts next year.

[as65p]

But I wouldn't expect too much as a result of that Bild survey. It shows Fernando is up against the meanest meanie of them all

That was a nice one

Just remember, chose your words about Ferrari carefully, because the the reason for your McLaren fandom might wear red one day!

[Fastcake]

New decade starts next year.

You're not one of them are you!

[hulmerist]

New decade starts next year.

so 2000 was part of the 90s?

are you literally an idiot?

[undersquare]

That was a nice one

Just remember, chose your words about Ferrari carefully, because the the reason for your McLaren fandom might wear red one day!

Thank you

Lewis to Ferrari is a pain I'm not expecting to have to bear. Nor you I suspect .

[Dispenser89]

Red Bull or Mercedes.

[as65p]

Lewis to Ferrari is a pain I'm not expecting to have to bear. Nor you I suspect ;) .

To the contrary! Nothing would excite me more than Hamilton joining Alonso at Ferrari. I mean it!

But hey, fat chance in reality...

[Seanspeed]

I sincerely foresee a black decade for McLaren. Now the partnership with Mercedes is over, they will have some good moments until the day the team is supposed to walk by itself. When I say this, I mean exactly the engine issue and the money Mercedes-Benz used to put on McLaren's wallet. And I don't think this day is so far.

I would gamble my money on Mercedes and Red Bull at first. And with Domenicali, I guess Ferrari can come back to the days of typical italian mess.

Mclaren are too good a team to ever write off. They've succeeded without Mercedes, and they can do it again. Even if it meant finding another manufacturer to partner with, any car-maker would be stupid not to support them.

I wouldn't write Mercedes off, either, cuz they've got the best engine on the grid, and while they haven't ever done it consistently, this ex-Honda/Brawn team actually has built some good cars in the past. I'd say it depends a lot on how much money Mercedes wants to pump into this F1 endeavor. They jumped on the Brawn success bandwagon, probably quite justifiably, but what will they make of the disappointment that the next season brings and the lack of the impact that Michael Schumacher is making on the sport?

Red Bull I think are in fine shape for the foseeable future. There's nothing guaranteed, and perhaps something as simple as the switch to Pirellis could set them back into a period of mediocrity, but I'd say what they've accomplished these past two years is enough to earn them the benefit of the doubt on these things.

As for Ferrari, I think they've shown a good deal of intent this year. 2009 was considered a very bad year for them, even though it developed from a top 10 car to a podium finisher. Perhaps people expect too much? Ferrari are a group of humans just like every other team. Perhaps they wont return to their unprecedented dominance from 2000 to 2004, but thats a bit much to expect. Alonso and Ferrari have had the capability this year to stay in the title hunt except for mistakes and bad luck. Thats a great improvement from last year, and shows the potential is there. I can easily see them being very strong again next year, too.

Bottom line - you cant write any of these teams off.

To the contrary! Nothing would excite me more than Hamilton joining Alonso at Ferrari. I mean it!

But hey, fat chance in reality...

Cant say I like Lewis, but just like with Schumacher, and now, to a lesser extent, Alonso, I can enjoy a driver that is delivering for my team, even if I dont particularly like the person in general.

Seeing Lewis and Alonso together in any team again would be fantastic. Teamed up at Ferrari, it'd be one for the history books(not that 2007 at Mclaren wasn't!).

Edited by Seanspeed, 22 July 2010 - 23:09.

[undersquare]

To the contrary! Nothing would excite me more than Hamilton joining Alonso at Ferrari. I mean it!

But hey, fat chance in reality...

Well I dunno. I think separate teams is working better tbh, it would never be accepted that the same team meant equal atmosphere or something. The cars are close right now, maybe they can stay close for the next 10 years. It's a feast this year, maybe they can all keep that going.

[robefc]

Ferrari has to dominate. It's in its history, in its "blood". If Stefano doesn't deliver, next please. I'm sure Luca thinks this way too.

We have the funding, we have a very good team of people, and the best driver (by words of the F1 drivers) of the world.

I'm sure Ferrari will have a word in this "dominance".

I think macca have a very good team of people and a better driver pairing (alonso=hamilton, button > massa) and very good funding for the time being.

Dominance in sports tends to be cyclical too...I'm hoping that means it's coming back mclaren's way with hamilton set for a hatful of titles. On the other hand RB might just be starting out...

Actually scrap the above, I'd love hamilton to win every championship but only in exciting fights with at leat 2 or 3 other drivers that go down to the wire.

[Massacrator]

I think macca have a very good team of people and a better driver pairing (alonso=hamilton, button > massa) and very good funding for the time being.

I don't think Button is as fast as Massa. Massa needs to solve his tyre issues (he said he already did, we will see this weekend how it goes) but when he doesn't have this problem, he is for sure one of the fastest drivers in the grid (and for sure, faster than Button).

This season is lost for Massa, but hopefully next season you'll see Massa shining again.

(Yea, I know, its weird that I'm defending Massa...)

[as65p]

Cant say I like Lewis, but just like with Schumacher, and now, to a lesser extent, Alonso, I can enjoy a driver that is delivering for my team, even if I dont particularly like the person in general.

Seeing Lewis and Alonso together in any team again would be fantastic. Teamed up at Ferrari, it'd be one for the history books(not that 2007 at Mclaren wasn't!).

I see where you're coming from, Ferrari first, then the rest.

Nothing wrong with that, except that for me it's the opposite - I follow drivers, not teams. So right now of course I care about Ferrari, because my current favourite drives for them. Sorry, just trying to be honest here .

What I like best, actually, is my favourite driver being teamed with the best of the rest, but that hardly happens nowadays. I had high hopes for a while with Räikönnen/Alonso at Ferrari, but it just wasn't meant to be. Same, apparently, with Kubica/Alonso for the near future. Well, and Hamilton going to Ferrari alongside Alonso is probably the unlikeliest of all, but wouldn't it be exciting?

[rhukkas]

Assuming F1 is still here in 2019! With the evolution of technology and the way the market perceives F1 who knows where we'll be in 10 years. Apple or Intel could be dominant by then ;)

[aditya-now]

Red Bull

Ferrari

Lotus

McLaren

Renault

Villeneuve

[Seanspeed]

I see where you're coming from, Ferrari first, then the rest.

Nothing wrong with that, except that for me it's the opposite - I follow drivers, not teams. So right now of course I care about Ferrari, because my current favourite drives for them. Sorry, just trying to be honest here .

What I like best, actually, is my favourite driver being teamed with the best of the rest, but that hardly happens nowadays. I had high hopes for a while with Räikönnen/Alonso at Ferrari, but it just wasn't meant to be. Same, apparently, with Kubica/Alonso for the near future. Well, and Hamilton going to Ferrari alongside Alonso is probably the unlikeliest of all, but wouldn't it be exciting?

Kubica/Alonso is a realistic one I can see happening at some point.

Perhaps even a Vettel/Alonso pairing. I know Vettel isn't popular nowadays, but I still think he's one of the best out there.

To keep it on-topic, I think that these sorts of pairing have the ability to truly dominate if given capable equipment.

Edited by Seanspeed, 23 July 2010 - 00:11.

[Lights]

I don't think Button is as fast as Massa. Massa needs to solve his tyre issues (he said he already did, we will see this weekend how it goes) but when he doesn't have this problem, he is for sure one of the fastest drivers in the grid (and for sure, faster than Button).

Yeah, and when Button doesn't have a problem, he's as fast as anybody. Unfortunately for both these drivers, the tyres aren't always how they'd like them to be.

[TurboF1]

Ferrari have been on a slow but steady decline since Todt/Brawn/Schumacher/Byrne arent there anymore. That was a given considering just how dominant they were at the start of the 2000s, the only way to go was down. I don't forsee them going back to the absolute joke of a team they were, but they won't dominate the same way as 2000-04. I doubt any team will. McLaren will weather the Merc pullout just fine. They have enough backing to be financially stable for many years to come. Once the new engine formula takes effect in 2013 I think that will level the playing field for all. From there, who knows who could emerge as the dominant force/manufacturer. There was a time when it was inconceivable for Honda to not be the most powerful engine on the grid (late turbo era). Once the engine formula switched to V8/v10/v12 options, they took a serious hit. The renault became the engine to have throughout the mid nineties, then the Merc (98,99,00 though not too reliable) Then the Ferraris, back to the Renaults, and now back to the Merc again. Who knows. If the past is anything to go by, Williams may become a dominant force again. We just don't know. Its wishful thinking by a lot of the Tifosi to think Ferrari will ever have as many cards stacked in their favor again as they did during the Schumacher days.

Dominance is cyclical. It comes, and it goes and rarely stays with the same team for more than a few years.

Edited by TurboF1, 23 July 2010 - 01:18.

[velgajski1]

Too hard to guess. McLaren and Ferrari will probably stay on top fighting for championships in most seasons. About rest - its way too difficult to predict.

[Stormsky68]

A very special set of conditions allowed Ferrari to dominate in the 00's.

Sure they will win WCC's in the 10's, but no team will dominate. It will be more evenly spread.

It also depends what the new engine rules are, buzzy little 4 or 6 pots might not suite Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes. Maybe Honda will return? That sort of thing is right up their alley.

Edited by Stormsky68, 23 July 2010 - 07:49.

[Simon Says]

I sincerely foresee a black decade for McLaren. Now the partnership with Mercedes is over, they will have some good moments until the day the team is supposed to walk by itself. When I say this, I mean exactly the engine issue and the money Mercedes-Benz used to put on McLaren's wallet. And I don't think this day is so far.

I would gamble my money on Mercedes and Red Bull at first. And with Domenicali, I guess Ferrari can come back to the days of typical italian mess.

Mercedes isn't anything amazing. Where are Force India or Mercedes GP

Without Mclaren, Mercedes is nothing.

Mclaren will do fine on it's own, they will develope their own engines which is going to be better. Custom design your own engine for your car

And believe me, Mclaren have got plenty of money. They are technology specialists with F1 just being one of their activities. And soon they'll be a car manufacturer too

Edited by Simon Says, 23 July 2010 - 07:53.

[Massacrator]

F1 is mostly about money. With money, you can get a good director that builds a good team arround him. Mercedes got Brawn, which I'm sure sooner or later will make a great car and Schumi and Rosgberg will start delievering.

[Simon Says]

Ferrari

Only chance they have is they somehow buy Andrain Newey. But no chance Red Bull will let Newey go. And Red Bull > bankrupt FIAT/Ferrari in terms of money.

[bauss]

The Google and Facebook F1 teams


hard to say, but I see Red Bull being strong, Ferrari being strong, Mclaren being strong n prolly Mercedes too.... F1 is becoming more spec, and car competitiveness is tending to converge more and more so a bit more focus will be on driver performance. With that said, I'll predict Mclaren slightly on top...but then Im biased

[midgrid]

I don't think any team will dominate as such, but it's difficult not to see Red Bull being there or thereabouts with Adrian Newey in the team.