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Non-factory entered Lotus Formula 1


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#1 Tuboscocca

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 15:43

I wondered if there was already a thread on the non-factory entered Lotus Formula 1.

I looked through the 1970 season (as an example) and found 4 different 'private' Lotus entered in one or more Grand Prix (for the Championship).
Through the many years from the late fifties to ,at least, to the mid-seventies, there must be so many entries of used old Lotuses.
Many famous as Rob Walker, then the South African race stables etc...

Maybe I have to 'scan' the Black book to come to a result??

Best regards Michael

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#2 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 17:12

To pick up on just one race out of hundreds... the 1961 British Grand Prix had private Lotus for Tony Maggs, Ian Burgess, Wolgang Seidel, Henry Taylor, Gerry Ashmore, Tim Parnell, Tony Marsh and Lucien Bianchi.

And that's just the one race.

#3 Tuboscocca

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 17:22

To pick up on just one race out of hundreds... the 1961 British Grand Prix had private Lotus for Tony Maggs, Ian Burgess, Wolgang Seidel, Henry Taylor, Gerry Ashmore, Tim Parnell, Tony Marsh and Lucien Bianchi.

And that's just the one race.



So only (still) 299 missing?
Same theme as the liveries of the Porsche 956!!

Regards Michael

#4 Tim Murray

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 17:43

To pick up on just one race out of hundreds... the 1961 British Grand Prix had private Lotus for Tony Maggs, Ian Burgess, Wolgang Seidel, Henry Taylor, Gerry Ashmore, Tim Parnell, Tony Marsh and Lucien Bianchi.

... I think you've missed one, Barry. :p

Edited by Tim Murray, 30 July 2010 - 17:47.


#5 D-Type

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 22:38

There's more than one way to skin a cat: go here - the Klutz who created the site apparently doesn't know the difference between "Team mate" and "Driver of the same make of car" so if you click on any driver of the car you want in the year in question and it lists all other drivers, both factory and private as his team mates .

#6 macoran

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 22:46

There's more than one way to skin a cat: go here - the Klutz who created the site apparently doesn't know the difference between "Team mate" and "Driver of the same make of car" so if you click on any driver of the car you want in the year in question and it lists all other drivers, both factory and private as his team mates .

The "Klutz" as you call him did his best!
Makes me think what the rest of us are ?

or

to say it differently,.......what have we contributed?

Edited by macoran, 30 July 2010 - 22:54.


#7 Barry Boor

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 22:49

If you mean Moss, I left him off as Michael had already mentioned Rob Walker's cars in his first post.

#8 D-Type

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 23:26

The "Klutz" as you call him did his best!
Makes me think what the rest of us are ?

or

to say it differently,.......what have we contributed?

Why go to the trouble of researching all that data and developing a well laid out site - but get the fundamentals wrong?

Is a database with inaccurate data of any value?

#9 macoran

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 23:54

Why go to the trouble of researching all that data and developing a well laid out site - but get the fundamentals wrong?

Is a database with inaccurate data of any value?

Have you taken the trouble or even the effort to help him correct inaccuracies ?

like we say in Holland, the best captains seem to stay quayside and comment

Edited by macoran, 31 July 2010 - 00:01.


#10 Gary Davies

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 00:22

Why go to the trouble of researching all that data and developing a well laid out site - but get the fundamentals wrong?

Is a database with inaccurate data of any value?


It appears that one of your "Klutzs" is Jacques Deschenaux. Perhaps you have heard of the print version of his Grand Prix Guide, an essential part of Formula One journalists' kit from 1979 until the web became ubiquitous.

If you would like to inform him that you consider him a klutz, or even if you would like to suggest a more accurate term for "Team mate" for this non-native English speaker the website does invite feed back at http://gpguide.com/ContactUs.aspx

:rolleyes:


#11 Terry Walker

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 11:36

After leaving Cooper but before his first Brabham GP car was ready, Jack Brabham raced a Lotus 24 Climax.

#12 Tim Murray

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 11:50

Technically, I suppose, Emerson Fittipaldi drove a privately-entered Lotus in the 1971 Italian GP.

#13 D-Type

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:41

Have you taken the trouble or even the effort to help him correct inaccuracies ?

like we say in Holland, the best captains seem to stay quayside and comment

I tried, but the "contact us" on the site is not particularly easy to find.

It appears that one of your "Klutzs" is Jacques Deschenaux. Perhaps you have heard of the print version of his Grand Prix Guide, an essential part of Formula One journalists' kit from 1979 until the web became ubiquitous.

If you would like to inform him that you consider him a klutz, or even if you would like to suggest a more accurate term for "Team mate" for this non-native English speaker the website does invite feed back at http://gpguide.com/ContactUs.aspx

:rolleyes:

That's even worse - In the case of a young enthusiast you can understand an odd error but from a professional we should expect better.

An odd factual error in a book or an article can be OK if it does not affect the story. Inaccuracy in what claims to be a factual source is different. It is just plain wrong.

I don't have Deschenaux's book, but I do have several others. Hayhoe and Holland list a 35 book bibliography; Higham's bibliography runs to 75 books ; Steve Small's is over 40 books. But none include Deschenaux. I wonder why not.

I reiterate that I consider a professional who is disseminating incorrect "factual" information fully deserves to be called a "klutz" or worse.

Now I have a contact e-mail I shall most certainly complain to them.

Edited by D-Type, 31 July 2010 - 16:56.


#14 ensign14

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:46

I had heard so much about the Deschenaux guides from things like Grand Prix International and assumed it was the Holy Grail of motorsport fact. When I got my hands on one, it was SO disappointing. If you hadn't scored a point in GP racing, you were nothing.

#15 D-Type

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 13:03

Look on the bright side. The gpguide website does have the information Tuboscocca was looking for.

#16 Tuboscocca

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 16:09

Look on the bright side. The gpguide website does have the information Tuboscocca was looking for.


I would like to thank all--didn't really expect a complete database with chassisnumbers...
The GPguide.com is a very good starting point!!

Regards Michael