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Barrichello/Schumacher Incident


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#451 fnz

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:12

And we know from history that they love Michael so much.


Wonder why :)

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#452 Diablobb81

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:12

Maybe, but rubens "owned" shumi today didn't he.


Of course. He was aggressive, he took a risk and pulled the move. But it was nullified by his whining (which isn't something new).

Wonder why :)



Most of them for not beating him.

DC probably forgot that he did the same thing in Spa 98 ("try to kill him").

Edited by Diablobb81, 01 August 2010 - 16:13.


#453 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:12

I remember Lewis "illegitimately impeding" Petrov this year.


Because he didn't 'impede' Petrov, Petrov followed him across the track like a lost puppy. What he did was weave, two different things.

#454 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:13

So, after all the drama, it all turns out good, Rubens survived the attempt on his life, beats Schumacher! and in the end, to add insult to injury, Schumacher gets a penalty on a race where he finishes ahead of Rosberg, all good if you ask me!! :up:

#455 Disgrace

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:13

This is no worse than Webber vs Massa in Fuji 2008,


No. Webber had already defended much earlier and did move into Massa but as Massa committed and by a matter of centimetres after the pitwall had finished.

Schumacher moved an entire car-length towards Rubens after he had committed while the pitwall was still alongside them both.

#456 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:14

Well, at least MS shows himself to be smarter than Webber at Turkey and risk removing himself or RB from the race...


Oh geesh! Lucky for MS that Rubens didn't jink left like vet jinked right huh? :rolleyes:

#457 fnz

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:15

@Birelman: Finishes ahead of NR... plz give me your crystal ball.

#458 Lada Lover

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:15

Notice the crafty way drivers are trying to escape the one move rule. MS is gradually moving to the right and holdig that course but if RB tried to pass on the left then MS would use his one move and jinx left and block RB from passing.

#459 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:16

@Birelman: Finishes ahead of NR... plz give me your crystal ball.

Well, Nico didn't finish, so I'm sure MS fans will claim that MS destroyed Nico with all his might and POWAH!

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#460 Tarzaan

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:16

Breaking!

Schumacher is responsible for the second World War.

Edited by Tarzaan, 01 August 2010 - 16:21.


#461 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:17

Breaking!

Schumacher is responsible for the second Word War.

That actually doesn't surprise me, I had that same theory, but I didn't want to bring it into the public eye :)

#462 stevvy1986

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:18

Breaking!

Schumacher is responsible for the second Word War.


Care to give us a history of the Second Word War?

#463 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:18

I nice bounch of born loosers...



you mean Eddie Jordan, one of only 2 privateers to start a team from scratch and win a race in the last 30 years? not to mention fighting for the title.

Or Martin Brundle the award winning commentator and world sportscar champion?

Or DC the 13 times race winner?

Or Alex Wurtz, youngest ever Le Mans winner?

Or Jenson Button, current world champion?


yeah what a bunch of losers! :rotfl:

Edited by Boing 2, 01 August 2010 - 16:25.


#464 bauss

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:18

bullsh*t about Schumacher leaving enough room...how much can bias cloud peoples judgment... RB had to put all 4 wheels off the white line to pass...

the problem is, if Schumacher wanted to leave absolutely no room on the inside, he could have moved to the xtreme inside much earlier. He moved to the inside a bit, RB saw more space there, then went for the inside, Schumi saw him going there, then tried to close the inside door, but it was too late as RB was already committed. Now this part happens alot in racing, what happens next is usual textbook stuff, once the overtaking car gets on the inside, the other car then slowly cedes and starts moving back to the outside, Schumi on the other hand took it over the line and pushed RB totally off the track almost as if he wanted to crush the Williams to the wall.... we have had similar incidents, but i cant remember anything this extreme, it was very dangerous... and Schumi rightly deserves to be punished. I cant believe people are realistically defending the move, jeez.

#465 fnz

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:18

@Birleman: NR did just fine today
@Tarzaan: Are you for real or just trying to spice up this topic?

#466 Flyhigh

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:19

Man, to see how things are relative in F1, that a fight for the 10 position is much more discussed that the batle for the race win. Love it.

#467 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:19

Notice the crafty way drivers are trying to escape the one move rule. MS is gradually moving to the right and holdig that course but if RB tried to pass on the left then MS would use his one move and jinx left and block RB from passing.


No, jinking to the left would be a clear blocking violation. Besides, then RB could just go right then anyway?

#468 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:19

@Birleman: NR did just fine today
@Tarzaan: Are you for real or just trying to spice up this topic?

LOL I love this stuff man!! :lol:

#469 merschu

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:19

We've had :

Eddie Jordan
Martin Brundle
Alex Wurtz
DC
Jenson Button
The four Stewards
AND over 80% of the voters on James Allen's site

All state unreservedly that MS was right out of order and Alex Wurtz, former Steward and GPDA Chairman was particularly scathing.

Can't the brainwashed Schumacher fans on this forum just for once accept that your man drove dangerously this afternoon ?

Does he have to kill someone before you will accept he ever does anything wrong ?


Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What's exactly new in there?

Edited by merschu, 01 August 2010 - 16:23.


#470 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:21

And of course, it had to fall in the most accessible race track for Schumi.

#471 Slowinfastout

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:21

Notice the crafty way drivers are trying to escape the one move rule. MS is gradually moving to the right and holdig that course but if RB tried to pass on the left then MS would use his one move and jinx left and block RB from passing.


The issue I have is that it's not even a blocking maneuver, it's intimidation... MS knew Barrichello had a run on him and that he was alongside..

Frankly that's just abusing the superior safety these drivers are enjoying nowadays.. put MS in an aluminium deathtrap and watch his balls shrink, with fair racing as a bonus.

#472 fnz

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:21

Man, to see how things are relative in F1, that a fight for the 10 position is much more discussed that the batle for the race win. Love it.


Fight that could have caused a serious injury

Edited by fnz, 01 August 2010 - 16:21.


#473 Sausage

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:21

I'm not sure where I stand on this incident, but I do know it is too funny :lol: + pretty spectacular. Let me take a stab at defending both.

Rubens is right: Schu moved too slowly, too late and pushed that last extra bit to the right when Rubens was already commited to passing on the right side, so that he had to dodge him and nearly crash into the pitwall. Schu's move was plain smart in a way, but incredibly dirty and dangerous. Deserved penalty.

Schu is right: Rubens was dumb for taking the right side and he knew it. He said: "I have a lot of experience and usually with a crazy guy like that I would lift off, but not today, absolutely not". This proves it was bad blood and therefore he insanely went on the inside, only cause it was with Schumacher and their history. Just to show the world he has balls. He could've easily went around on the outside. Moronic penalty.

#474 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:22

Or DC the 13 times race winner?

yeah what a bunch of losers! :rotfl:


The man won 13 races in 15 years in F1... That's less than one win a season...

All of this while enjoying driving one of the top 3 (if not the top 1) cars on the grid for almost all of those 15 years...

Others driving those cars would have gone and won the DC... Oh, that's right, the others DID!

#475 Willy_Wonka

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:22

Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What new in there?


Where as you, of course are the voice of reason :rotfl:
Iam supprised he didnt get a race ban, that would have been more fitting.


#476 undersquare

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:22

speak for yourself.


Well OK I don't claim to speak for people who think the Hamilton/Petrov weaving was the same. That's another universe entirely, obscure and very mysterious :lol:



#477 Jazza

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:22

Notice the crafty way drivers are trying to escape the one move rule. MS is gradually moving to the right and holdig that course but if RB tried to pass on the left then MS would use his one move and jinx left and block RB from passing.


Yes, well spotted.

A move which is banned in most motorsports. Technically it is not changing your line once, but changing your line several times in small steps in the one direction. I'm really not sure if it is legal in f1 or not, but most other forms of racing banned it because it is dangerous and a cheat of a move that blocks the whole track.

#478 britishtrident

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:23

Care to give us a history of the Second Word War?

The (mainly) good guys won.

#479 Tarzaan

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:23

Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What new in there?


Nothing.




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#480 Disgrace

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:23

They aren't objective anyway. All the F1 pundits/ex-drivers are out there for blood, in MSC's case.

Furthermore, MSC left enough room cause otherwise RB wouldn't have passed him! Lastly, it was RB's decision to go to the right, MSC left the door wide open on his left side.


So who is objective if ex-drivers with the experience and knowledge to understand the actual racing and decision-making process at such speeds are out to get him in a massive conspiracy? There is no choice here.

Schumacher did leave enough room for a car to get past with absolutely zero error margin. Would you drive your car at 100kph in a tunnel, step into a plane, walk across a bridge that have all been built to zero error margin? I wouldn't. I use such examples with a reason: all have the potential to cost lives if they were not built to excess safety specifications.

If we saw such moves whereby the most minimal steering input caused a loss of life on a regular basis, we would see loss of life.

And lastly, to directly answer your point, it was Barrichello's decision to go to the right but at that point, there was more than a car-length of space.

Posted Image


Posted Image


It was Schumacher's decision to go to the right, after Rubens was alongside on the right! Schumacher had lost the position right there, and that was the point to move to the left. He tried to defend what was already lost, deliberately and dangerously. If it was accidental, his eyesight is not good enough to race in F1. That made the difference and that's why it was unacceptable.

Edited by Disgrace, 01 August 2010 - 16:26.


#481 Slartibartfast

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:26

Not a chance that's the racing beast that is inside big Schumi, next one to pull on the inside will have the scare of his life too but likely it won't be a whiner like Rubens.

No harm no foul and Michael, now probably comfortably seated in his private jet towards Suisse, will not have any second thoughts about it.

At best he'll think "what a bunch of whiners" and I'll agree to that :lol:

Except there was a foul, and a penalty imposed as a result.

If Schumacher, faced with not just official sanction but criticism from other drivers and commentators, can feel at ease with his behaviour and not have any second thoughts, then I will have the same amount of respect for him as he would appear to have for others, the rules and the concepts of sportsmanship and fair competition. I won't say that is no respect at all, but don't expect it to fill a thimble.
So hopefully Schumacher will not behave as you suggest.

#482 Yorkie

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:26

I rate Diniz going into Alesi Hockenheim 1998 at 220mph worse.

And this example being very bad, a lot of drivers do it. Didnt Rubens himself squeeze a car to the wall on the brasil straight last year?

Yes he squeezed Lewis which punctured his tyre

Notice the crafty way drivers are trying to escape the one move rule. MS is gradually moving to the right and holdig that course but if RB tried to pass on the left then MS would use his one move and jinx left and block RB from passing.

Exactly MS didnt block the inside he put his car in the middle of the track then whatever side Rubens moved to, MS was going to move the same way

No, jinking to the left would be a clear blocking violation. Besides, then RB could just go right then anyway?

Remember Canada against Massa, MS moved to the inside to defend his inside, Massa went to the outside then MS immediately went back to the outside leaving Massa nowhere to go and Massa ended up crashing

#483 Willy_Wonka

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:27

So who is objective if ex-drivers with the experience and knowledge to understand the actual racing and decision-making process at such speeds are out to get him in a massive conspiracy? There is no choice here.

Schumacher did leave enough room for a car to get past with absolutely zero error margin. Would you drive your car at 100kph in a tunnel, step into a plane, walk across a bridge that have all been built to zero error margin? I wouldn't. I use such examples with a reason: all have the potential to cost lives if they were not built to excess safety specifications.

If we saw such moves whereby the most minimal steering input caused a loss of life on a regular basis, we would see loss of life.

And lastly, to directly answer your point, it was Barrichello's decision to go to the right but at that point, there was more than a car-length of space.





It was Schumacher's decision to go to the right, after Rubens was alongside on the right! Schumacher had lost the position right there, and that was the point to move to the left. He tried to defend what was already lost, deliberately and dangerously. If it was accidental, his eyesight is not good enough to race in F1. That made the difference and that's why it was unacceptable.


That there ends the discussion as far as iam concerned.
Deffending that would be very poor form in my opinion.

#484 Disgrace

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:29

The man won 13 races in 15 years in F1... That's less than one win a season...

All of this while enjoying driving one of the top 3 (if not the top 1) cars on the grid for almost all of those 15 years...

Others driving those cars would have gone and won the DC... Oh, that's right, the others DID!


If the success of the person in question defines the validity of their opinion, we should shut this forum down. Get with the real world and grow up.

#485 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:29

So who is objective if ex-drivers with the experience and knowledge to understand the actual racing and decision-making process at such speeds are out to get him in a massive conspiracy? There is no choice here.

Schumacher did leave enough room for a car to get past with absolutely zero error margin. Would you drive your car at 100kph in a tunnel, step into a plane, walk across a bridge that have all been built to zero error margin? I wouldn't. I use such examples with a reason: all have the potential to cost lives if they were not built to excess safety specifications.

If we saw such moves whereby the most minimal steering input caused a loss of life on a regular basis, we would see loss of life.

And lastly, to directly answer your point, it was Barrichello's decision to go to the right but at that point, there was more than a car-length of space.





It was Schumacher's decision to go to the right, after Rubens was alongside on the right! Schumacher had lost the position right there, and that was the point to move to the left. He tried to defend what was already lost, deliberately and dangerously. If it was accidental, his eyesight is not good enough to race in F1. That made the difference and that's why it was unacceptable.

Excellent post man, just about sums it all up. :up:

#486 JackTorrance

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:29

you mean Eddie Jordan, one of only 2 privateers to start a team from scratch and win a race in the last 30 years? not to mention fighting for the title.

Or Martin Brundle the award winning commentator and world sportscar champion?

Or DC the 13 times race winner?

Or Alex Wurtz, youngest ever Le Mans winner?

Or Jenson Button, current world champion?


yeah what a bunch of losers! :rotfl:

I wont mention Martin Brundle crashing into and breaking both legs of a track marshall who was waving yellow flags because the track was so slippery, but DC? The man puts shame to Andrea the Cesaris! Go and look the start of Spa 1998, or the various crashes in his last year of F1. Wurz had some memorable moments of taking out fellow drivers too.

Really, this holier than thou attitude of former drivers is laughable. They just say the things that keeps them earning large salaries paid by license holders in the UK

#487 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:30

If the success of the person in question defines the validity of their opinion, we should shut this forum down. Get with the real world and grow up.

WOOT! You're on fire today!! :up:

#488 mkay

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:30

So who is objective if ex-drivers with the experience and knowledge to understand the actual racing and decision-making process at such speeds are out to get him in a massive conspiracy? There is no choice here.

Schumacher did leave enough room for a car to get past with absolutely zero error margin. Would you drive your car at 100kph in a tunnel, step into a plane, walk across a bridge that have all been built to zero error margin? I wouldn't. I use such examples with a reason: all have the potential to cost lives if they were not built to excess safety specifications.

If we saw such moves whereby the most minimal steering input caused a loss of life on a regular basis, we would see loss of life.

And lastly, to directly answer your point, it was Barrichello's decision to go to the right but at that point, there was more than a car-length of space.





It was Schumacher's decision to go to the right, after Rubens was alongside on the right! Schumacher had lost the position right there, and that was the point to move to the left. He tried to defend what was already lost, deliberately and dangerously. If it was accidental, his eyesight is not good enough to race in F1. That made the difference and that's why it was unacceptable.


They are biased because Schumacher owned their as*es from 1994 to 2006.

Furthermore, MSC moved gradually to the right. It was RB who jumped the gun. RB should have been penalized for making such a fuss about it... No wonder why he wasn't up for it last year and from 2000-2005 with the best car.

#489 macoran

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:30

This grid penalty is ridiculous.

Is that all one gets for attempted manslaughter nowadays ?

#490 RobH

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:30

Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What's exactly new in there?


I'm fed up with ***** like yourself bringing nationality into every racing incident this season.

Debate properly or **** right off.

Edited by RobH, 01 August 2010 - 16:31.


#491 SRi130Brett

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:30

I think it was clearly a dangerous move. Wasnt nessecary at all from his point of view, he kept going closer to that wall and I was sat their thinking WTF is he doing??

The penalty for me seems bang on fair.

Above all, I think when somethings as clear cut as this you learn alot about a drivers followers. All have a hard core who wont consider their man could ever do anything wrong, but Shcumacher has more than most. Hamilton has his share, Ferrari team fans probably the worst. I think anyone arguing that today wasnt a dangerous move really damages thier credibility on a forum like this. It clearly was, and clutching at straws to argue otherwise is pretty fruitless.

I for one think hes doing so much damage to that reputation of his. Its not the flowery picture the Schumacher fans paint that will be recorded by history. It'll be errors, penalties and having his arse kicked by a team mate that goes into history.

#492 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:32

Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What's exactly new in there?


"they only hate him 'cos they're British and he's German!"


yay, one more tick on my Bullshit Bingo card! :)


lets just ignore the fact that Wurz is Austrian, Jordan is Irish and those 'foreigner hating Brits' Button and Coulthard have a Japanese girlfriend and Belgian wife..... :lol:

Edited by Boing 2, 01 August 2010 - 16:32.


#493 rad787

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:32

So who is objective if ex-drivers with the experience and knowledge to understand the actual racing and decision-making process at such speeds are out to get him in a massive conspiracy? There is no choice here.

Schumacher did leave enough room for a car to get past with absolutely zero error margin. Would you drive your car at 100kph in a tunnel, step into a plane, walk across a bridge that have all been built to zero error margin? I wouldn't. I use such examples with a reason: all have the potential to cost lives if they were not built to excess safety specifications.

If we saw such moves whereby the most minimal steering input caused a loss of life on a regular basis, we would see loss of life.

And lastly, to directly answer your point, it was Barrichello's decision to go to the right but at that point, there was more than a car-length of space.





It was Schumacher's decision to go to the right, after Rubens was alongside on the right! Schumacher had lost the position right there, and that was the point to move to the left. He tried to defend what was already lost, deliberately and dangerously. If it was accidental, his eyesight is not good enough to race in F1. That made the difference and that's why it was unacceptable.


MS did not lose the position there, he was entitled to move to the right and dissuade RB from pursuing it. RB tyres was just so much newer that he got alongside faster. Rubens could break when there was no more "track" but as he himself admitted he did not lift and decided to go OFF TRACK to maintain his overtaking move. He knew the wall was there, so he should not have complained.


#494 britishtrident

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:32

Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What's exactly new in there?


Lauda & Wurz are already taken a strong position against Schumacher on the matter and they aren't from your imagined native english speakers F1 secret society.

#495 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:33

They are biased because Schumacher owned their as*es from 1994 to 2006.

Furthermore, MSC moved gradually to the right. It was RB who jumped the gun. RB should have been penalized for making such a fuss about it... No wonder why he wasn't up for it last year and from 2000-2005 with the best car.

LOL hard to believe anyone would keep defending MS on this one. I wouldn't expect a lot of objectivity from an MS fan,but c'mon lol

#496 dustybloke

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:33

Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What's exactly new in there?


Well, Alexander Wurz is only kind of British, in the sense that he's er, Austrian.

I also like the other entertaining posters here who portray Rubens as a "whiner". In the sense that the bloke who went to nice Mr Todt and said, "Don't let nasty Rubens win" wasn't a whiner?

#497 JackTorrance

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:35

Lauda & Wurz are already taken a strong position against Schumacher on the matter and they aren't from your imagined native english speakers F1 secret society.



Lauda:"back in the day, we made sure not to touch eachother on the main straight because there were the television cameras, but at the back of the track no cameras at all and we all banged wheels and hit eachother"

#498 Speed Racer 99

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:35

So when will JV chime in with his view of the incident and bring up Jerez 97? I predict Tuesday.

#499 jimm

jimm
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  • Joined: June 99

Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:35

The worst part is Barrichello didn't lift off when he knew that would happen as much as Schumacher did. Rubens was equally poor, he chopped back in a much more aggressive move.

Schumacher made one move gradually over the track, Barrichello chopped back right in front of Schumacher... who cares if Schumacher just chopped him, he cannot complain then do exactly the same thing back.



:lol: :lol: :drunk:

You can't really believe your own fan worshop can you?

RB is at fault...really? MS almost ran him into the wall and your point is that RB knew he was going to do this so he should not have attempted a pass?????

What a joke.

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#500 rolf123

rolf123
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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:35

you mean Eddie Jordan, one of only 2 privateers to start a team from scratch and win a race in the last 30 years? not to mention fighting for the title.

Or Martin Brundle the award winning commentator and world sportscar champion?

Or DC the 13 times race winner?

Or Alex Wurtz, youngest ever Le Mans winner?

Or Jenson Button, current world champion?


yeah what a bunch of losers! :rotfl:


- failed in F1
- failed in F1
- failed in F1
- got lucky one year