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Barrichello/Schumacher Incident


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#501 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:35

Is that all one gets for attempted manslaughter nowadays ?

LOL nice one!!

This is actually the icing on the cake that makes MS's return to F1 look bad

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#502 Juan Kerr

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:36

Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What's exactly new in there?

As much as this was a little bit too aggressive from Schumi to the tune of about 2 ft I do hate the way people like Brundle and DC are always itching to jump on his back and generalise about his whole career and mindset straight away. It seems that anyone who has been directly on the wrong end of Schumacher's success(not necessarily on the end of a bad move of his) are desperate and jealous of the guy. If Barrichello did the same thing to Michael it would be a completely different story of course.

#503 dustybloke

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:37

MS did not lose the position there, he was entitled to move to the right and dissuade RB from pursuing it. RB tyres was just so much newer that he got alongside faster. Rubens could break when there was no more "track" but as he himself admitted he did not lift and decided to go OFF TRACK to maintain his overtaking move. He knew the wall was there, so he should not have complained.


I think you'll find that when single seaters have their tyres interlocked, the guy who "breaks" - I hope you mean "brakes" - launches the other guy into the air. Mr Schu might have whined for the first time in his life (yeah, right) after that. If he was still breathing, that is.

#504 mkay

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:37

LOL hard to believe anyone would keep defending MS on this one. I wouldn't expect a lot of objectivity from an MS fan,but c'mon lol


I am not even an MS fan. It's just appaling to see the hate here... I felt like I had to defend him.

#505 Talryyn

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:37

I have had it happen to me, and during moments of the red mist I have done the same to others. MS should have known better I guess, but I should not have flipped that one guy a number of years ago, and I knew better.

We have seen this before though from MS when he has a car that sucks compared to the better cars he has been in.

I agree that it was a dumb move, but these things happen in racing.

#506 jimm

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:37

MS did not lose the position there, he was entitled to move to the right and dissuade RB from pursuing it. RB tyres was just so much newer that he got alongside faster. Rubens could break when there was no more "track" but as he himself admitted he did not lift and decided to go OFF TRACK to maintain his overtaking move. He knew the wall was there, so he should not have complained.



You have to leave some room.....MS was penalized and it was justified. MS looks more pathetic each week. This was the equivalent of the over the hill Mike Tyson biting Evander's ear. MS did not like the idea of his former lacky passing him for position and acted like a douche.

#507 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:38

Yes, well spotted.

A move which is banned in most motorsports. Technically it is not changing your line once, but changing your line several times in small steps in the one direction. I'm really not sure if it is legal in f1 or not, but most other forms of racing banned it because it is dangerous and a cheat of a move that blocks the whole track.


Total rubbish.

Legislating how you overtake and how you can block is recent to F1. I've only ever heard of it in Indycars. Now, it may exist in other categories too but to say most motorsports? That is complete rubbish.



#508 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:38

If the success of the person in question defines the validity of their opinion, we should shut this forum down. Get with the real world and grow up.



:up:

so bored with the "you've no right to express an opinion if you're not a 7 times world champion" stance from people who haven't even seen a racing car let alone drive one in anger.

#509 se7en_24

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:38

- failed in F1
- failed in F1
- failed in F1
- got lucky one year

How do their acheivements compare to your credentials?

#510 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:38

Lauda:"back in the day, we made sure not to touch eachother on the main straight because there were the television cameras, but at the back of the track no cameras at all and we all banged wheels and hit eachother"


Didn't some one have a camcorder back then to catch em out? :rotfl: too bad ...

#511 Slowinfastout

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:38

So when will JV chime in with his view of the incident and bring up Jerez 97? I predict Tuesday.


JV doesn't chime in... sometimes people call him and ask what he's thinking.

#512 jimm

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:39

I have had it happen to me, and during moments of the red mist I have done the same to others. MS should have known better I guess, but I should not have flipped that one guy a number of years ago, and I knew better.

We have seen this before though from MS when he has a car that sucks compared to the better cars he has been in.

I agree that it was a dumb move, but these things happen in racing.



I also have a lot of (actual...not racing sims) racing experience...Lots of things happen in racing...does not mean it is right or should not be punshed.

Edited by jimm, 01 August 2010 - 16:39.


#513 Slartibartfast

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:39

Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What's exactly new in there?

"All of them are British" - ergo, they are right! It always surprises me that so many foreigners fail to understand this. :p
Mind you, their British nationality will come as a surprise to Alex Wurz and Eddie Jordan.
I wonder if the people who refer to nationality in an argument would care to try to debate the merits of the case instead, or are they people who think ad hominems have some legitimate logical validity?

#514 Stibbich

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:39

http://img.index.hu/..._0007920098.jpg

Yes, so much place for an overtake :drunk:

Edited by Stibbich, 01 August 2010 - 16:40.


#515 Disgrace

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:40

MS did not lose the position there, he was entitled to move to the right and dissuade RB from pursuing it.


He lost what is colloquially known as the "high-ground." If you want to be specific about it, he lost the point within the realms of reason. At this point, he became unreasonable, given Rubens no room for error which is why Rubens didn't go through so easily and that's why it was utterly disrespectful and downright dangerous.

Rubens could break when there was no more "track" but as he himself admitted he did not lift and decided to go OFF TRACK to maintain his overtaking move. He knew the wall was there, so he should not have complained.


Of course he maintained his overtaking move and did not lift because he did not expect Schumacher to keep going to the right, because such a thing is unreasonable. But he did. Of course he knew the wall was there but so did Schumacher (!!!) and didn't complain either!

Edited by Disgrace, 01 August 2010 - 16:40.


#516 Kooper

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:40

Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What's exactly new in there?



Hitler would have slammed Scummi for that move... happy now?

#517 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:41

If you see the wall beckoning, there's a simple thing that you can do - apply the brakes.

It's not Schumi's fault if Boobens doesn't want to brake.

It's like driving a regular car or a bike and trying to overtake but then suddenly seeing that your gap is diminishing. Hit the brakes and live to fight another day. OR keep going, hope you get alright and feel an almighty rush. That was Boobens today - full of emotions.

These "emotional" drivers are fun to watch but dangerous. Webber, Vettel, Boobens, Alonso.

Schumi is cool and collected as usual. He had it all under control. No sweat.


#518 Disgrace

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:41

- failed in F1
- failed in F1
- failed in F1
- got lucky one year


How many times must I say this...

If the success of the person in question defines the validity of their opinion, we should shut this forum down. Get with the real world and grow up.


Please debate properly, or if you disagree with that statement, do not debate at all because none of us have the right.

#519 jimm

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:41

They are biased because Schumacher owned their as*es from 1994 to 2006.

Furthermore, MSC moved gradually to the right. It was RB who jumped the gun. RB should have been penalized for making such a fuss about it... No wonder why he wasn't up for it last year and from 2000-2005 with the best car.



Your definition of "gradual" is a bit suspect.

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#520 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:42

I am not even an MS fan. It's just appaling to see the hate here... I felt like I had to defend him.

Haha, pity defence? That's all he needs :)

C'mon man, he went a bit too far, that little bit could have cost someone's life today. I don't condemn him much for what he did, had I been in his position I would have done similar, but, that doesn't make it right. I've done some things in my life I'm not proud of, this should be one MS shouldn't be proud of, but I'm pretty sure he's laughing his butt off.

#521 benjiwengy

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:42

I'm afraid this all goes back to when Schumacher was allowed to get away with such incidents on a regular basis. Anyone remember Spa 2000 when he try to run Hakkinen off the road at 180mph?

#522 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:43

http://img.index.hu/..._0007920098.jpg

Yes, so much place for an overtake :drunk:


Exactly. If anything, Boobens did not respect the white line of the track. Schumi had already left him no track space.

But instead he couldn't accept it and decided to run the risk of going outside the white line and risking a collision with the wall.

Posted Image

#523 jimm

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:44

If you see the wall beckoning, there's a simple thing that you can do - apply the brakes.

It's not Schumi's fault if Boobens doesn't want to brake.

It's like driving a regular car or a bike and trying to overtake but then suddenly seeing that your gap is diminishing. Hit the brakes and live to fight another day. OR keep going, hope you get alright and feel an almighty rush. That was Boobens today - full of emotions.

These "emotional" drivers are fun to watch but dangerous. Webber, Vettel, Boobens, Alonso.

Schumi is cool and collected as usual. He had it all under control. No sweat.



BS...Had there been contact between MS and RB there against the pit wall could have ended in a bunch of people killed or injured. MS is an ASS, get over it.

#524 mursuka80

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:44

- failed in F1
- failed in F1
- failed in F1
- got lucky one year


Does that make their opinions invalid? What the hell is this! Your opinion matters only if you have achieved something? What a bunch of SHIT!!

#525 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:44

How do their acheivements compare to your credentials?


Here we go again. Am I not fit to comment because I haven't driven in F1? Then most of this board should pack up and go home.

#526 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:44

If the success of the person in question defines the validity of their opinion, we should shut this forum down. Get with the real world and grow up.


You're in denial if you're suggesting that Andrea De Cesaris' or Taki Inoue's opinion should be given the same weight as Jackie Stewart's or Stirling Moss'...

I'd listen to Mario Andretti's opinion on anything before I'd give Milka Duno a microphone...

Edited by Tolyngee, 01 August 2010 - 16:46.


#527 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:45

I also have a lot of (actual...not racing sims) racing experience...Lots of things happen in racing...does not mean it is right or should not be punshed.


There is too much obsession with punishment. Driver every bl00dy race wail for penalities to be applied.

I watched racing in the early 90s and hardly remember any penalties. Just get on with the racing and accept it.

Today is ridiculous.


#528 MikeJuk

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:45

My last comment on this idiot board - judging by some of the comments about how schumi has done 'nothing wrong' I'm going to a petition Autosport for an IQ test for prospective forum members. The trouble is the membership would drop by well over half. :wave:

#529 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:46

You're in denial if you're suggesting that Andrea De Cesaris' or Taki Inoue's opinion should be given the same weight as Jackie Stewart's or Stirling Moss'...

It's still a heavier opinion than our armchair expertise.

#530 Rurouni

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:46

I agree that Schumacher should be punished (which he did), but I also think that Barichello needs to be punished too. The fact that he forced his way outside the white line make the whole incident even more dangerous.
Of course the problem is that if he backed off, Schumacher move wouldn't look as dangerous as it did and he (Schu) probably wouldn't get any punishment (probably only a reprimand).

#531 JPW

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:46

Except there was a foul, and a penalty imposed as a result.

If Schumacher, faced with not just official sanction but criticism from other drivers and commentators, can feel at ease with his behaviour and not have any second thoughts, then I will have the same amount of respect for him as he would appear to have for others, the rules and the concepts of sportsmanship and fair competition. I won't say that is no respect at all, but don't expect it to fill a thimble.
So hopefully Schumacher will not behave as you suggest.

Do you really think that big Schumi will be fazed by a bit of uproar from the press, a 10 place grid penalty in an already lost season and the habitual whining from Rubens?

Next driver to go that route will face the exact same move and rightly so, it's racing not ballet.

#532 jimm

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:46

Exactly. If anything, Boobens did not respect the white line of the track. Schumi had already left him no track space.

But instead he couldn't accept it and decided to run the risk of going outside the white line and risking a collision with the wall.

Posted Image


You have not raced...This unacceptable behaviour. You are not allowed to just run the other guy off the road (defined by the white line in this case). The only case where it is kind of not the case is if a driver tries to overtake around the outside because it is hard to stay level on the outside. Down the straight is unacceptable.

#533 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:47

You're in denial if you're suggesting that Andrea De Cesaris' or Taki Inoue's opinion should be given the same weight as Jackie Stewart's or Stirling Moss'...


lol, you actually give weight to Jackie Stewart's opinion? The guy, just like Lauda, is a rent-a-quote egomaniac who often talks rubbish. Lauda is worse though.

#534 VresiBerba

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:47

They aren't objective anyway. All the F1 pundits/ex-drivers are out there for blood, in MSC's case.

Yeah yeah, sure, 'enemies in the paddock' Weber called it after Shumi's penalty in Monaco 2006; they're all out to get him :eek:

Edited by VresiBerba, 01 August 2010 - 16:49.


#535 Jazza

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:47

Total rubbish.

Legislating how you overtake and how you can block is recent to F1. I've only ever heard of it in Indycars. Now, it may exist in other categories too but to say most motorsports? That is complete rubbish.


No it is not rubbish. You can not drive diagonally across the race track in most motor sports. You can pick a line and stick to it (in most types of racing), but you can not keep moving slowly across the track. As i said, I'm not sure about F1, but in most racing it is banned because it is dangerous and makes it impossible to pass.

#536 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:47

It's still a heavier opinion than our armchair expertise.


I think Milka Duno's proving that's not necessarily accurate...

#537 Kovalonso

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:47

:eek: Rubens BALLSrrichello :clap:

#538 Willy_Wonka

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:48

How do their acheivements compare to your credentials?


Rolfs german :rotfl: :)

#539 katmen

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:48

hmmm what IF shumi will not participate in spa and heidfeld will have his chance to impress? what about that penalty now?

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#540 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:49

BS...Had there been contact between MS and RB there against the pit wall could have ended in a bunch of people killed or injured. MS is an ASS, get over it.


"had there" - I put that phrase up there with "could have", "would have" or "should have". "if" and "maybe".

Quit thinking in terms of hypotheticals. Get over it.

#541 mursuka80

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:49

Do you really think that big Schumi will be fazed by a bit of uproar from the press, a 10 place grid penalty in an already lost season and the habitual whining from Rubens?

Next driver to go that route will face the exact same move and rightly so, it's racing not ballet.


Be sure to defend the move if someone gets killed. :down: Wouldnt expect nothing more from a person who wants whole Merc to be build aroumd MS,when he has done NOTHING to deserve that.

#542 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:49

lol, you actually give weight to Jackie Stewart's opinion? The guy, just like Lauda, is a rent-a-quote egomaniac who often talks rubbish. Lauda is worse though.


Jackie is responsible for the safety we see in F1 today. Yes, I'd give him a microphone any day...

#543 goat0063

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:50

I tried to see it from Michael's fanboys point of view but regrettably I was unable to get my head that far up my own arse.

Edited by goat0063, 01 August 2010 - 17:07.


#544 Disgrace

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:50

You're in denial if you're suggesting that Andrea De Cesaris' or Taki Inoue's opinion should be given the same weight as Jackie Stewart's or Stirling Moss'...


No, I stand by it. Granted, Andrea De Crashris made lots of mistakes by himself. Inoue was useless at F1 level.

But they got to F1 and when they did, they did not get drivers into a calculated deathly situations in an obviously deliberate manner. They created unsafe situations out of their lack of talent but that doesn't mean their opinion differs in the sense that dangerous driving is somehow good. Their intentions aren't different to champions.

Edited by Disgrace, 01 August 2010 - 16:51.


#545 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:51

You have not raced...This unacceptable behaviour. You are not allowed to just run the other guy off the road (defined by the white line in this case). The only case where it is kind of not the case is if a driver tries to overtake around the outside because it is hard to stay level on the outside. Down the straight is unacceptable.


I have raced. It is not unacceptable behaviour. Drivers have been edging out and making it difficult like this for years. It's called squeezing your opponent.

Hard but fair.


#546 jimm

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:51

There is too much obsession with punishment. Driver every bl00dy race wail for penalities to be applied.

I watched racing in the early 90s and hardly remember any penalties. Just get on with the racing and accept it.

Today is ridiculous.



Yes..."the golden 90s" where it was accptible to just crash your competitor out to win. The fact is there should have been penalties. I disagree with being overly aggresive....There have been several that I think have gone too far but this one was absolutely justified. Otherwise it just becomes a crash derby at 200mph. I like close aggresive racing but this is weekend entry level formula ford BS racing, not F1 or professional.

#547 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:51

Kind of of shocking to see anyone here defending Schumacher's move, and even more shocking seeing people blame Barrichello for not giving in to brazen intimidation when he was already alongside. I know RC is a cesspool, but surely there have to be some minimum standards here?

Edited by Dmitriy_Guller, 01 August 2010 - 16:52.


#548 ivand911

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:52

Michael wasn't smart here, he just needed to do excessive waving and to get reprimand.

#549 VresiBerba

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:52

"had there" - I put that phrase up there with "could have", "would have" or "should have". "if" and "maybe".

Quit thinking in terms of hypotheticals. Get over it.

That thinking doesn't ring very well now that Shumi was after all penalised. How anyone can possibly defend Shumi is beyond comprehension.

#550 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:53

Be sure to defend the move if someone gets killed. :down: Wouldnt expect nothing more from a person who wants whole Merc to be build aroumd MS,when he has done NOTHING to deserve that.


Bringing a 7-time WDC into the WCC team to replace your WDC-winning driver who split...

Seems sensible to build it around him...