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Barrichello/Schumacher Incident


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#551 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:53

I think Milka Duno's proving that's not necessarily accurate...

Well, think of the quality of their experience, THAT's what weighs their credentials. Just racing in a "major" doesn't exactly make you an expert. But, DC's credentials speak for themselves.

What, so, you think someone who ran a major corporation into the ground has the same quality as one who successfully ran a medium business?

In any case, after reading a few of your posts, I would take Milka's opinion over yours :)

Edited by Birelman, 01 August 2010 - 16:54.


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#552 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:53

Jackie is responsible for the safety we see in F1 today. Yes, I'd give him a microphone any day...


He campaigned to increase safety and was successful. That doesn't say anything about how good a judge he is of an overtaking manouvre. If it does, then please explain how.

#553 mursuka80

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:53

That thinking doesn't ring very well now that Shumi was after all penalised. How anyone can possibly defend Shumi is beyond comprehension.


Its a conspiracy!!!! :p

#554 Willy_Wonka

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:54

I have raced. It is not unacceptable behaviour. Drivers have been edging out and making it difficult like this for years. It's called squeezing your opponent.

Hard but fair.


Squeeze all you like, as long as there is somewhere for your opponent to go besides the wall.
It was a dumb move by a driver well past his sell by date.
Time to go back to his millions and dream of the glory days when he was winning.

#555 CoolFiltered

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:55

I am not even an MS fan. It's just appaling to see the hate here... I felt like I had to defend him.



Good luck with that, It's extremely difficult to defend the indefensible.

#556 jimm

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:55

I have raced. It is not unacceptable behaviour. Drivers have been edging out and making it difficult like this for years. It's called squeezing your opponent.

Hard but fair.



Squeezing...fine. Running the other guy off the track...no. Only "acceptable" in bush league local Saturday night racing. At professional levels at some point you are beaten and have to accept it. What we saw from MS was a temper tantrum when someone who he considers below him passed him for position.

'10 MS='96 Mike Tyson

#557 se7en_24

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:55

Here we go again. Am I not fit to comment because I haven't driven in F1? Then most of this board should pack up and go home.

Did I say that? You were the one starting the argument regarding F1 credentials not me.

#558 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:56

That thinking doesn't ring very well now that Shumi was after all penalised. How anyone can possibly defend Shumi is beyond comprehension.


The judgement proves nothing. There have been plenty of cases where people have not agreed with the judgement. It proves only Derek Warwick and the other steward's opinions. And as we all know too well, stewards opinions are often highly controversial, especially in the last three or four years.

Don't worry though - I'll remind you of this conversation next time you object to a steward's ruling. :lol:

#559 JackTorrance

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:56

He campaigned to increase safety and was successful. That doesn't say anything about how good a judge he is of an overtaking manouvre. If it does, then please explain how.


I totally agree Stewart is a rent-a-quote. But the man is a triple F1 world champion. He oughta know a little bit about racing cars ;)

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#560 mursuka80

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:56

Bringing a 7-time WDC into the WCC team to replace your WDC-winning driver who split...

Seems sensible to build it around him...


And lets throw young driver under the bus,just because a man who will race 2 years tops is not good enough without preferential treatment. No worries,Keke will make sure it will not happen.

#561 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:56

I tried to see it from Michael's fanboys point of view but regrettably I was unable to get my had that far up my own arse.

HAHAHA! :up: :up:

#562 Willy_Wonka

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:56

Bringing a 7-time WDC into the WCC team to replace your WDC-winning driver who split...

Seems sensible to build it around him...



If said driver was still up to the job then sure.
But he isnt is he, maybe he wants to first start by at least trying to get on terms with his team mate.
Something he doesnt look like doing this season or the next.

#563 JPW

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:56

Michael wasn't smart here, he just needed to do excessive waving and to get reprimand.

LOL yeah, double standards a bit but who cares nothing happened and Michael can take it easy at Spa. :lol:

Question: even if Rubens felt endangered, threatened, whatever by the move would he not have been better off by not whining about it but just man up and say that whatever Michael threw at him he still got passed him on merit?

#564 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:56

No, I stand by it.


You stand by a river in Egypt, my friend. Choke yourself in the shallow water before you get in too deep and drown...

#565 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:57

Exactly. If anything, Boobens did not respect the white line of the track. Schumi had already left him no track space.

But instead he couldn't accept it and decided to run the risk of going outside the white line and risking a collision with the wall.

Posted Image



if there's one thing dumber than posting evidence that destroys your own argument it's watching someone else do it then re-posting it!


see the big, car-sized bit of tarmac to the right of Schumacher? that's what we in the post-pubescent world refer to as a 'gap' :wave:



#566 man

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:58

Wurz is just another anti-German racist Brit...oh wait a minute ;)

Giving M Schumacher a 10 position penalty isn't that bad considering he usually qualifies near the tail end anyway. I guess he has good reason to be smug!

The thing is, one of these days M Schumacher is going to injure somebody very badly... That's the serious part o this. Drivers today need to show more respect.

#567 panzani

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:58

'10 MS='96 Mike Tyson

That's the perfect analogy! :clap:

#568 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:59

"had there" - I put that phrase up there with "could have", "would have" or "should have". "if" and "maybe".

Quit thinking in terms of hypotheticals. Get over it.



:clap: lets wait till someone dies before applying penalties :clap:

#569 CoolFiltered

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 16:59

I tried to see it from Michael's fanboys point of view but regrettably I was unable to get my had that far up my own arse.


Lmao, unfortunately, with the worst of them, it's so far up there it's actually precariously balanced on their shoulders :)


#570 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:00

I have raced. It is not unacceptable behaviour. Drivers have been edging out and making it difficult like this for years. It's called squeezing your opponent.

Hard but fair.



the stewards disagree :)


#571 mursuka80

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:00

That's the perfect analogy! :clap:


MS will soon go after other drivers bodyparts!!! NO ONE IS SAFE!!!! :p

#572 VresiBerba

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:00

The judgement proves nothing.

It proves that Shumi was penalised though, doesn't it.

#573 ensign14

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:00

Oh my god what a surprise!! The people who are always bashing Schumi, again bashes him! What a surprise! Another thing all of them are British! James Allen is also one & therefore obviously most British people went to vote there! And soon tomorrow or so we will see articles from Stirling Moss & Jackie Stewart condemning the move & again talk rubbish about Schumi! What's exactly new in there?

Sorry, what part of Britain do Wurz, Jordan, Enzo Spano, Radovan Novak and Lajos Herczeg come from?

Or is this just another racist attack on the British?

#574 jimm

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:00

He campaigned to increase safety and was successful. That doesn't say anything about how good a judge he is of an overtaking manouvre. If it does, then please explain how.



He is 3x WDC, former holder of most wins in F1 history, drove succesfully for years through one of the most dangerous eras in the sport....I will take his opinion over a BB poster any day.

#575 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:00

He campaigned to increase safety and was successful. That doesn't say anything about how good a judge he is of an overtaking manouvre. If it does, then please explain how.



Three world championships.




#576 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:00

What, so, you think someone who ran a major corporation into the ground has the same quality as one who successfully ran a medium business?


Countries around the world continue to vote these people into office to run the world...

In any case, after reading a few of your posts, I would take Milka's opinion over yours :)


Women! :rolleyes:

#577 Disgrace

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:01

You stand by a river in Egypt, my friend. Choke yourself in the shallow water before you get in too deep and drown...


Er...? I think I'll call it a day. Anyone who wishes to see a reasonable, factual post about the topic itself can click on this long linked sentence.

Edited by Disgrace, 01 August 2010 - 17:01.


#578 sosidge

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:02

He campaigned to increase safety and was successful. That doesn't say anything about how good a judge he is of an overtaking manouvre. If it does, then please explain how.


Your criteria for anyone to have a valid opinion on F1 is pretty extreme...

You've already discounted the opinions of a couple of current/recent drivers, including the reigning world champion.

Now, the views of two triple world champions are not relevant.

Unless you are expecting Alain Prost to come out in Schumacher's defence, it seems there is only one person's opinion that is relevant in your view.

And that sir, marks you out as a fanboy.

If Michael told you to have cornflakes for dinner I think you would agree.

Schumacher was late and excessive in his move. The williams was already alongside when Schumacher started his squeeze. It was very close to a serious crash.

More relevant to the regulations, Schumacher also forced Barrichello completely off the racetrack (if we define it as the area within the white lines - a definition that too many drivers have become casual with). The grid penalty is deserved.

Personally speaking, this is the point that I have lost faith in Schumacher as a safe driver to have on the track. He is past it, the paddock knows it, but there is a small group of old men who are clinging on to glory days that are going to end in certain embarrassment and possible injury.

Edited by sosidge, 01 August 2010 - 17:02.


#579 SirSaltire

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:03

To think that I was almost warming to MS! He is such a dick head! He even had the brass neck to say that he was moving over to allow RB to pass on the outside! Look back at the footage- he was watching RB coming down the inside!
All you guys that support him no matter what are deluded. Anyway his move WAS deemed unjust and he has been punished. Flawed genius.

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#580 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:03

Like what? shoot.



Ayrton Senna on Alain Prost, Suzuka 1990 is one I can immediately think of.


Lewis Hamilton vs Sebastian Vettel on a number of occasion, pitlane or on the track



#581 Slowinfastout

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:03

LOL yeah, double standards a bit but who cares nothing happened and Michael can take it easy at Spa. :lol:

Question: even if Rubens felt endangered, threatened, whatever by the move would he not have been better off by not whining about it but just man up and say that whatever Michael threw at him he still got passed him on merit?


It's a bit like being overtaken by Danica Patrick, isn't it?

#582 JackTorrance

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:03

the stewards disagree :)


The FIA stewards are handing out penalties, reprimands like its a lotery. One day a rule is enforced, another its ignored.


#583 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:04

Countries around the world continue to vote these people into office to run the world...



Women! :rolleyes:

LOL exactly, makes you wonder for people's intelligence level, doesn't it?

#584 britishtrident

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:04

Bringing a 7-time WDC into the WCC team to replace your WDC-winning driver who split...

Seems sensible to build it around him...



It did at the time --- not now after months of outpaced by Rosberg --- I watched Norbert looking very uncomfortable giving a very half hearted defence of Schumacker today it looks like the writing is on the wall, the Mercedes board won't take well to prolonged bad publicity.


#585 goat0063

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:06

It's a bit like being overtaken by Danica Patrick, isn't it?

:rotfl:

#586 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:06

LOL yeah, double standards a bit but who cares nothing happened and Michael can take it easy at Spa. :lol:

Question: even if Rubens felt endangered, threatened, whatever by the move would he not have been better off by not whining about it but just man up and say that whatever Michael threw at him he still got passed him on merit?


rubens didn't whine, he stated that Schumachers driving was dangerous, which was backed up by every observer interviewed so far and the stewards.


As ever, when you run out of actual arguments all there is left is persional abuse. :)


#587 britishtrident

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:07

The FIA stewards are handing out penalties, reprimands like its a lotery. One day a rule is enforced, another its ignored.



Not a wrong decision so far this year --- although some penalties were too light.

#588 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:07

The FIA stewards are handing out penalties, reprimands like its a lotery. One day a rule is enforced, another its ignored.

If anything they have turned a blind eye this year a lot

#589 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:07

If Michael told you to have cornflakes for dinner I think you would agree.


Hey, cornflakes are freakin' yummy!

(Not quite as yummy as the Hungarian girls on the podium, of course...)

#590 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:08

It's a bit like being overtaken by Danica Patrick, isn't it?

LOL I actually wouldn't mind THAT so much

#591 stairpotato

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:08

Three world championships.


Three world championships in one of the most competitive eras the sport has ever known...

#592 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:09

LOL exactly, makes you wonder for people's intelligence level, doesn't it?


I don't vote...

The real question is... do you?

#593 P123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:10

Schumacher was lucky to avoid penalty in Canada when he chopped Massa under braking for the chicane. The stewards are correct to penalise. I'm sure we don't want to see drivers closing the door on each other at such high speed. I wonder if the twits who are defending the move would be so vocal had Barichello's Williams clipped the wall.

#594 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:10

He is 3x WDC, former holder of most wins in F1 history, drove succesfully for years through one of the most dangerous eras in the sport....I will take his opinion over a BB poster any day.


Three world championships.


Both of you look at the original quote. The poster was using Jackie's safety record as a reason to listen to him regarding this manouvre. I never discounted his other achievements.

Your criteria for anyone to have a valid opinion on F1 is pretty extreme...


What criteria? Can you read my mind?

You've already discounted the opinions of a couple of current/recent drivers, including the reigning world champion.


Current drivers have a vested interest to attack Schumi. Their opinion is totally biased.

Now, the views of two triple world champions are not relevant.


Your bold assumption, not mine.

Unless you are expecting Alain Prost to come out in Schumacher's defence, it seems there is only one person's opinion that is relevant in your view.

And that sir, marks you out as a fanboy.


I am no more a fanboy than anyone else on this board.


Schumacher was late and excessive in his move. The williams was already alongside when Schumacher started his squeeze. It was very close to a serious crash.


I agree. This happens in racing sometimes. Schumi would not pull the move like that every single time he is forced to defend. So it was a little bit more hairy than usual. No big deal. Everyone lived.

More relevant to the regulations, Schumacher also forced Barrichello completely off the racetrack (if we define it as the area within the white lines - a definition that too many drivers have become casual with). The grid penalty is deserved.


Haha, "forced"? Get real. For 3 reasons, he was not forced:

1) they never touched
2) Barichello had the option to slam on the brakes at any moment. He chose not to do so.
3) At this moment below in the photo: Barichello chose to go for the tiny space within the white lines:

Posted Image

If he did not want to be "forced" (as you put it) outside the white lines then why enter a zone where your right tyres are already right next to the white lines?

Edited by rolf123, 01 August 2010 - 17:16.


#595 P123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:11

If anything they have turned a blind eye this year a lot


Yep, they seem to be allowing the racing to be sorted out on the track.

#596 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:11

LOL yeah, double standards a bit but who cares nothing happened and Michael can take it easy at Spa. :lol:

Question: even if Rubens felt endangered, threatened, whatever by the move would he not have been better off by not whining about it but just man up and say that whatever Michael threw at him he still got passed him on merit?



LOL I would have loved to have heard Rubens on the radio after making the move going "F'in yeah, YEAH, YEAH!!!, Schooled that mofo!!"

#597 Henrik B

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:12

I'd say a forum ban for anyone defending Schumachers move. Pretty much proves they have no grasp on racing and will defend absolutely anything he does, without logic or reason, and I don't want such people around. (That's probably why I never will be a moderator, though).

It was far, far too late for a chop and it shows his age. He can't hack it anymore.

And to answer katmen, he gets the penalty HIS next race. Only way to avoid it is to retire.

#598 jimpo

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:12

There wasn't space. The race track ends at that white line, Rubens chose to go that close to the wall when he got across that white line.

Like I said had it been grass he wouldn't have been there he would have lifted... Off track is off track whether it's tarmac, grass or water.... it's off track. He shouldn't have tried to pass inside Schumacher off track.


So by your logic, if Rubens somehow ends up where he should not be (outside of track) during the race, Michael is allowed to kill him by pushing him to a wall? No punishment, since Rubens was where he should not have been. That's some weird logic.

The pictures show without a doubt why Michael needs a ban from all racing for life. First picture, Michael is on the edge of the race track, Rubens is almost completely on his side. Michael is aware of that, he is aware of the fact that Rubens is at most 1 meters from the concrete wall. Next pic, Michael is still 0,5m closer to the wall. He knows Rubens is next to the wall, has no time to stop, can't move elsewhere and still he pushes towards the wall. Time for legal action in civil court.


#599 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:12

I don't vote...

The real question is... do you?

But I'm not the one defending that, am I? ;)

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#600 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:13

the Mercedes board won't take well to prolonged bad publicity.


Any publicity is good publicity. Would anyone be even talking about Merc if not for Schumi being in the team and some good defending done this year?

Rosberg does not have the presence of a leader, he still seems like a boy. If not for Schumi, Merc would not even be on the radar. They would be talked about as often as Force India.