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Barrichello/Schumacher Incident


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#601 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:13

Both of you look at the original quote. The poster was using Jackie's safety record as a reason to listen to him regarding this manouvre. I never discounted his other achievements.


Without Jackie being a pioneer for safety in F1, I doubt the achievements of himself, MS and others would be the same historically...



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#602 man

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:14

Yep...I believe that is the last straw for Merc and Nobby. M Schumacher will be told his services are no longer required. Slow driving, dangerous when racing wheel to wheel- he is serving absolutely no benefit to Mercedes F1 strategy. M Schumacher is becoming quite a pathetic sight on the grid these days. They need new fresh blood alongside Rosberg to help the team progress in a positive manner.

#603 JPW

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:14

It's a bit like being overtaken by Danica Patrick, isn't it?

Not really but I'm having a bit of a chuckle at those all upset about a silly duel for 10th place. :rolleyes:

Surely big Schumi is done with it (he probably just had his 3rd canape on his plane) and in the greater scheme of things it's unimportant.
Just the fact that it's big Schumi makes all those go in a frenzy, fascinating in my opinion and proof that his return is still the biggest thing to F1 in 2010.

Anyway believe me that this won't change anything, next driver to try this on Michael will receive exactly the same treatment and that was the point he made today I think. :lol:

@Boing: try again dude and answer the question.

#604 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:15

I wonder if the twits who are defending the move would be so vocal had Barichello's Williams clipped the wall.


Here we go again. Ifs, buts and maybes. They mean nothing.

If Massa hadn't blown engine in Hungary. If Montoya didn't get the penalty in Indy. If Damon Hill decided to hold back instead of attacking Schumi immediately in Oz.

Ifs, buts, maybes, should've, could've, would've.

These things mean nothing in the world of F1.

Edited by rolf123, 01 August 2010 - 17:15.


#605 Slartibartfast

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:15

Do you really think that big Schumi will be fazed by a bit of uproar from the press, a 10 place grid penalty in an already lost season and the habitual whining from Rubens?

Next driver to go that route will face the exact same move and rightly so, it's racing not ballet.

I would have thought the answer to that was fairly obvious.

If anyone, regardless of name, nationality or past history, behaves in such a way as to bring censure from the governing body, their peers and others involved in the sport, then they should, at the very least, contemplate the possibility that they were in the wrong. Failure to do so is not admirable resilience or single-minded determination, it is blind arrogance and a failure to recognise one's own errors.

You may be right. Schumacher may not care. He may do the same thing to the next driver that "pulls a Rubens" on him. If so, he will find himself in trouble with the FIA again. In which case the conditional in my earlier post will hold true and I will have very little respect for him.
So, if you wish me to respect the man, maybe you'd better hope that Schumacher doesn't behave in the way you suggest.

it's racing not ballet

I'll agree that move was lacking grace, artistry or class. It was crass and thuggish. It's Formula One, not a demolition derby.

#606 Yorkie

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:15

lol, you actually give weight to Jackie Stewart's opinion? The guy, just like Lauda, is a rent-a-quote egomaniac who often talks rubbish. Lauda is worse though.

I think i'd give more weight to their opinion than yours :lol:

#607 britishtrident

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:16

rubens didn't whine, he stated that Schumachers driving was dangerous, which was backed up by every observer interviewed so far and the stewards.


As ever, when you run out of actual arguments all there is left is persional abuse. :)



Just reminder of how dangerous --------------- it had the potential for a major disaster.

http://en.wikipedia....e_Mans_disaster

also Monza 1961 http://en.wikipedia....fgang_von_Trips

#608 Louis Siefert

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:16

I havent read the middle 8 pages

but is this any worse than Senna vs. Prost

#609 tifosi

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:17

Sorry, what part of Britain do Wurz, Jordan, Enzo Spano, Radovan Novak and Lajos Herczeg come from?

Or is this just another racist attack on the British?



Brits are a race?!!!

Wow, I learn something new everyday on here.

#610 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:17

But I'm not the one defending that, am I?;)


I'm not the one berating the people I vote for...

You can't berate the intelligence of the voting public for being in agreement with you...

This has tangented though and gone OT...

#611 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:18

Here we go again. Ifs, buts and maybes. They mean nothing.

If Massa hadn't blown engine in Hungary. If Montoya didn't get the penalty in Indy. If Damon Hill decided to hold back instead of attacking Schumi immediately in Oz.

Ifs, buts, maybes, should've, could've, would've.

These things mean nothing in the world of F1.

Nah, they don't mean a thing until somebody dies...... :down:

#612 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:18

I havent read the middle 8 pages

but is this any worse than Senna vs. Prost


Funny thing is the Senna/Prost rivalry brought in a lot of fans... It certainly did me!

#613 stairpotato

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:18

I havent read the middle 8 pages

but is this any worse than Senna vs. Prost


Well....at least Senna told you in advance that he was gonna take you off, then was honest about it afterwards.

Plus - Senna's actions always made him look inspired - Schumacher always manages to make himself look a bit of a boob.

#614 Spa95

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:19

There was nothing wrong with Michaels move today. It's the sort of move which gets you a gushing 15 minute special on Top Gear in a few years time. :lol:

#615 Slowinfastout

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:19

Not really but I'm having a bit of a chuckle at those all upset about a silly duel for 10th place. :rolleyes:

Surely big Schumi is done with it (he probably just had his 3rd canape on his plane) and in the greater scheme of things it's unimportant.
Just the fact that it's big Schumi makes all those go in a frenzy, fascinating in my opinion and proof that his return is still the biggest thing to F1 in 2010.

Anyway believe me that this won't change anything, next driver to try this on Michael will receive exactly the same treatment and that was the point he made today I think. :lol:

@Boing: try again dude and answer the question.

I meant about the man up, feeling threatened, whinging, etc..

Rubens is what he is, that doesn't change the move which clearly crossed the boundaries of what's acceptable...

Also I agree with you that MS isn't likely to change.. but who cares about this backmarker stuff anyway?;)

Oh and 'big Schumi'? I wouldn't know lol

Edited by Slowinfastout, 01 August 2010 - 17:21.


#616 scheivlak

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:19

Anyway believe me that this won't change anything, next driver to try this on Michael will receive exactly the same treatment and that was the point he made today I think. :lol:

Well, the next logical step after the 10 place grid penalty of today will be full race ban.

Will be interesting to see how long the Mercedes board will tolerate this all, certainly when Nick Heidfeld gets a chance to show how he will perform.

#617 jimpo

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:19

Though I have to admit there's a silver lining to all this. By coming back at 2010 Schumi is cementing his legacy as the crook of F1, while diminishing the memory of his accomplishments by pretty much sucking at every race.

#618 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:21

I'm not the one berating the people I vote for...

You can't berate the intelligence of the voting public for being in agreement with you...

This has tangented though and gone OT...

LOL, well, the way you steered off to avoid the being proven wrong tells me you're no dummy, masterful actually :) :up:

You're still wrong tho :p

#619 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:21

Well....at least Senna told you in advance that he was gonna take you off, then was honest about it afterwards.

Plus - Senna's actions always made him look inspired - Schumacher always manages to make himself look a bit of a boob.


Senna's actions looked like a man with life's dedication to the win...

MS's actions look like a last act of desperation...

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#620 kodandaram

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:21

Remember Spa 2000 Mika vs Michael - this was the same chop Michael gave to Mika when the latter tried his first move at the end of the Kemmel Straight - Mika was waving his arms after Schumi ran him off the track ..almost.

Difference between that and this, is that, this time it was a concrete wall with the pit exit coming up. What if there were cars exiting the pitlane ? Too dangerous. Penalty is well deserved. Good job FIA. But the reason should have been "Dangerous Driving" rather than impeding and all that cock and bull story.

Aha - and 2000 Suzuka Japan start ...Michael squeezed Mika just the same again. The FIA needs to find its pair and punish the driver irrespective of his status. :down:

#621 Laster

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:22

Clearly the stig was trying to get revenge for Rubens beating his time round the top gear track, only he got overtaken and now has more reason to run him off the road! lol

Edited by Laster, 01 August 2010 - 17:22.


#622 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:22

I havent read the middle 8 pages

but is this any worse than Senna vs. Prost


Most of this board probably weren't even alive to see Senna vs Prost.

Here's a reminder:




#623 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:22

You're still wrong tho :p


Like I already said... "women" :rolleyes:

#624 pRy

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:23

This photo sums it up for me:

http://cdn.images.au.../1280677102.jpg

Regardless of who should have been where and when, that photo shows just how badly out of place Schumacher ended up and even more so Rubens.

#625 JackTorrance

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:23

Here we go again. Ifs, buts and maybes. They mean nothing.

If Massa hadn't blown engine in Hungary. If Montoya didn't get the penalty in Indy. If Damon Hill decided to hold back instead of attacking Schumi immediately in Oz.

Ifs, buts, maybes, should've, could've, would've.

These things mean nothing in the world of F1.


You have a point. When schumacher defends hard and puts an ugly move, he is the devil himself. When Damon Hill puts JV off the track onto the grass in a hard defensive move its allright and he gets praised for his batlling attitude.

#626 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:24

Nah, they don't mean a thing until somebody dies...... :down:


Racing has always been dangerous. Far worse happens in the lower divisions. Just see how crazy GP2 is and that's only one level different.


#627 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:24

Regardless of who should have been where and when, that photo shows just how badly out of place Schumacher ended up and even more so Rubens.


RB left the track to pass MS?

Wasn't Alonso penalized for this in Silverstone when Kubica forced him off the track?

#628 AlainProstX

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:25

How on earth can people still defend such a dirty move?

This could have ended in a very dangeroush crash. Rubens could be dead right know.

Someone needs to really punish Michael Schumacher. As a german Im ashamed from his comments to the press about this incident.

+10 places grid penalty is a joke. Just imagine someone like Chandhock oder Di Grassi pulling out such a move. Those guys would have been suspendet.

#629 Mc_Silver

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:25

Schumacher showed everyone how dirty driver he is! :down: :down:

#630 JPW

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:26

Also I agree with you that MS isn't likely to change.. but who cares about this backmarker stuff anyway?;)

Oh and 'big Schumi'? I wouldn't know lol

Allright then Slowinfastout, glad we agree on something somehow a little bit dude.  ;)
As to big Schumi that's just a phrase adopted when little Ralf was still around.

Anyway bon appetit, see you later :wave:

#631 MS7XWDC

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:27

I'm VERY happy to see MS will not give up any position easily ...... good on him !!!

#632 SRi130Brett

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:27

Not really but I'm having a bit of a chuckle at those all upset about a silly duel for 10th place. :rolleyes:

Surely big Schumi is done with it (he probably just had his 3rd canape on his plane) and in the greater scheme of things it's unimportant.
Just the fact that it's big Schumi makes all those go in a frenzy, fascinating in my opinion and proof that his return is still the biggest thing to F1 in 2010.

Anyway believe me that this won't change anything, next driver to try this on Michael will receive exactly the same treatment and that was the point he made today I think. :lol:

@Boing: try again dude and answer the question.


MS the most talked about topic of 2010? In the context of an entertaining side show. We've talked about how hes lost speed. We've talked about how he cant qualify as well anymore. We've talked about him being outclassed by Nico Rosberg. We've talked about some dodgy race moves. We've talked about that auroa of invincibility being gone. I dont see how the fact he has been so talked about in 2010 is good? I hear hes gotten better at overtaking on the first lap thought which is obviously something!

Your comment about it only being for 10th place. Yes you are right. Have a think about how far you're mans fallen behind, because as I recall, his teammate was in podium contention when his wheel fell off....

If the next driver to try it gets the same treatment, I think you'll be seeing you're man banned for a race to be totally honest, I think todays ruling probably means he shouldnt actually do it again!!!


#633 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:27

RB left the track to pass MS?

Wasn't Alonso penalized for this in Silverstone when Kubica forced him off the track?


Exactly. I mentioned this already when someone said that Rubens was "forced" off the track.

#634 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:27

Both of you look at the original quote. The poster was using Jackie's safety record as a reason to listen to him regarding this manouvre. I never discounted his other achievements.


You discounted his opinion as a 'rent-a-quote' his success on the track is what validates his opinions.

lol, you actually give weight to Jackie Stewart's opinion? The guy, just like Lauda, is a rent-a-quote egomaniac who often talks rubbish. Lauda is worse though



Current drivers have a vested interest to attack Schumi. Their opinion is totally biased.


what is that 'vested interest'? maybe they're hoping that a 10 place penalty will make Schumacher easier to beat......

Button, in case you haven't noticed has 147 points, Schumacher has 38 :wave:


Haha, "forced"? Get real. For 3 reasons, he was not forced:

1) they never touched


He was forced against a wall due to the fact that the car to the left was driving at him and the wall to the right was, disgracefully, refusing to budge.

2) Barichello had the option to slam on the brakes at any moment. He chose not to do so.



How is this proof that he wasn't forced against a wall? It just proves the guy has balls like coconuts :)

3) At this moment below in the photo: Barichello chose to go for the tiny space within the white lines:

Posted Image

If he did not want to be "forced" (as you put it) outside the white lines then why enter a zone where your right tyres are already right next to the white lines?


When you say 'tiny' do you mean that big gap the size of a racing car?

You're asking why a racing driver put his car into a car sized gap whilst passing a competitor? i don't think racing is your sport kiddo :drunk:





#635 Tarzaan

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:28

How on earth can people still defend such a dirty move?

This could have ended in a very dangeroush crash. Rubens could be dead right know.

Someone needs to really punish Michael Schumacher. As a german Im ashamed from his comments to the press about this incident.

+10 places grid penalty is a joke. Just imagine someone like Chandhock oder Di Grassi pulling out such a move. Those guys would have been suspendet.


Wake up! This is a race!

There was a lots of similar moves in the past some years, and there was no penalties after those...

Barichello also wasn't penalized in Monaco when hi throw out his steering wheel to the track.

Edited by Tarzaan, 01 August 2010 - 17:29.


#636 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:28

Senna's actions looked like a man with life's dedication to the win...

MS's actions look like a last act of desperation...


It's easy to only see the nice side of someone. Life's dedication to the win? Some would say that after Suzuka '90, he was more of a religious fundamentalist and a sociopath.


#637 jimm

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:29

Senna's actions looked like a man with life's dedication to the win...

MS's actions look like a last act of desperation...



Senna's move for the WDC and win of a race.

MS for 10th place while driving a full on manufacturer's car against a private team with customer engines.

#638 scheivlak

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:29

You have a point. When schumacher defends hard and puts an ugly move, he is the devil himself. When Damon Hill puts JV off the track onto the grass in a hard defensive move its allright and he gets praised for his batlling attitude.

No, when Damon does it it's just clumsyness :p

#639 SirSaltire

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:29

This thread is a bit pointless. Posters boil down to 3 categories.

1. MS fans that see no wrong in him
2. MS haters that see no good in him
3. Sensible F1 fans that make an informed view on the facts before them.

I of course put myself in category 3. :-)

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#640 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:29

I'm VERY happy to see MS will not give up any position easily ...... good on him !!!


+1 :up:

#641 benjiwengy

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:30

Remember Spa 2000 Mika vs Michael - this was the same chop Michael gave to Mika when the latter tried his first move at the end of the Kemmel Straight - Mika was waving his arms after Schumi ran him off the track ..almost.

Difference between that and this, is that, this time it was a concrete wall with the pit exit coming up. What if there were cars exiting the pitlane ? Too dangerous. Penalty is well deserved. Good job FIA. But the reason should have been "Dangerous Driving" rather than impeding and all that cock and bull story.

Aha - and 2000 Suzuka Japan start ...Michael squeezed Mika just the same again. The FIA needs to find its pair and punish the driver irrespective of his status. :down:


I totally agree. MS is lucky he hasn't killed anyone yet. If he did, it would of been the FIA's fault for showing such blatant favouritism over his career.

#642 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:34

Racing has always been dangerous. Far worse happens in the lower divisions. Just see how crazy GP2 is and that's only one level different.

Oh, I see :rolleyes:

I have been involved in racing all my life, I know what's up dude.

The danger is accepted, there's no need to add to it with irresponsible dangerous moves, those are always punished, at all levels when they get caught. Mind you, that I don't particularly condemn Schumacher for what he did, as in his position, I would very probably have done similar, but that doesn't make it right.

#643 jimm

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:35

I'd say a forum ban for anyone defending Schumachers move. Pretty much proves they have no grasp on racing and will defend absolutely anything he does, without logic or reason, and I don't want such people around. (That's probably why I never will be a moderator, though).

It was far, far too late for a chop and it shows his age. He can't hack it anymore.

And to answer katmen, he gets the penalty HIS next race. Only way to avoid it is to retire.



Nahh....every village needs their idiots :rotfl: just a joke .. evryone is intitled to their opinions no matter how blinded by fan boy loyalty

#644 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:35

You discounted his opinion as a 'rent-a-quote' his success on the track is what validates his opinions.


That may be your opinion. But it was insinuated by two others here that I neglected to ignore his other (non-safety) achievements. I never did. I merely pointed out that his safety record has nothing to do with his ability to judge an overtake move good or bad.




what is that 'vested interest'? maybe they're hoping that a 10 place penalty will make Schumacher easier to beat......

Button, in case you haven't noticed has 147 points, Schumacher has 38 :wave:


Perhaps you've forgotten how difficult it is to overtake with current F1 cars? Especially if Schumi is ahead of you. Besides, Schumi has a legacy of dominating every driver on the grid. They're vitriole for him is still apparent.

He was forced against a wall due to the fact that the car to the left was driving at him and the wall to the right was, disgracefully, refusing to budge.


Did Rubens suffer a brake failure I don't know about? If the gap is diminishing and you see a wall coming towards you, brake.

Remember Massa and Vettel(?) in the pits a couple years back. Massa braked and got back in line. Why would you NOT brake? Perhaps out of stupidity.

How is this proof that he wasn't forced against a wall? It just proves the guy has balls like coconuts :)

It's not for me to prove a nothing. I made my remarks because someone said that Rubens was "forced". Where is the proof of this? There is not one iota, one shred of evidence.

When you say 'tiny' do you mean that big gap the size of a racing car?

You're asking why a racing driver put his car into a car sized gap whilst passing a competitor? i don't think racing is your sport kiddo :drunk:


Yes, this is exactly what I meant. Such a gap is indeed tiny. It is the smallest gap you can go for if you want to overtake. There is no smaller gap to go for. Do you still think this is a huge gap? Show me a smaller one where a car will fit.

Edited by rolf123, 01 August 2010 - 17:37.


#645 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:36

This thread is a bit pointless. Posters boil down to 3 categories.

1. MS fans that see no wrong in him
2. MS haters that see no good in him
3. Sensible F1 fans that make an informed view on the facts before them.

I of course put myself in category 3. :-)

LOL if we ask any of us which category we're in, we're all in 3 too!!! :)

#646 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:37

Oh, I see :rolleyes:

I have been involved in racing all my life, I know what's up dude.

The danger is accepted, there's no need to add to it with irresponsible dangerous moves, those are always punished, at all levels when they get caught. Mind you, that I don't particularly condemn Schumacher for what he did, as in his position, I would very probably have done similar, but that doesn't make it right.


:lol: yup, it doesn't make you right. It makes you a hypocrite! :rotfl:

#647 lokiman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:37

I have raced. It is not unacceptable behaviour. Drivers have been edging out and making it difficult like this for years. It's called squeezing your opponent.

Hard but fair.



:up: :up: :up:

I agree with you 100%.

A 3x f1 WDC, about 12 current and former F1 drivers, 3 current and former team owners and a slew of F1 commentators might have naively thought that it was a dangerous and outrageous piece of driving, but some random webmong from the autosport forums, who claims to have driven competitively, says that it's acceptable behaviour, so that's good enough for me.

#648 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:38

It's easy to only see the nice side of someone. Life's dedication to the win? Some would say that after Suzuka '90, he was more of a religious fundamentalist and a sociopath.


Why is Suzuka '89 never mentioned first? Prost removed Senna from the race with the blessing of the FIA!

This is precisely why Prost should never sit on any stewards post...

#649 Birelman

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:39

:lol: yup, it doesn't make you right. It makes you a hypocrite! :rotfl:

On the contrary, because I'm accepting that had I done it, I would have erred, makes me honest, and not a rabid fanboy :wave:

#650 Flyhigh

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 17:39

This video in slow motion is very good to analize it and is tough to defend Schumacher:





I can`t complain that it was exciting as hell, but I think Schummy was on the edge of reason and skill.