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Barrichello/Schumacher Incident


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#901 primer

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 23:53

I find the penalty strangely half-hearted. Either they should have given a more severe penalty or none at all. This penalty makes mockery of the incident. :down:

Edited by primer, 01 August 2010 - 23:56.


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#902 Monad

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 23:54

The onboard shot from this is particularly eye opening:

http://www.wat.tv/vi...ar5_2fh4r_.html



Seeing it i see something completely different than today. Webber went near the wall before Massa even try the move so that it will discourage him from taking the inside. After Massa tried the move nonetheless knowing fully well how little space he had, Webber didn't move closer to the wall or try to stop him, he continued straight. Schumi wasn't as close to the wall when Barrichello tried his move, so Rubens didn't expect a risky close up to the wall as much as Massa did. Then Schumi started pushing him to the wall, Webber didn't push Massa anymore after he got out of his tow to overtake. Schumi on the other hand pushed and pushed forcing Rubens to avoid him until he put him a lot closer to the wall than Webber ever put Massa.
By seeing the photo i thought Webber did something similar just with a little more space but this video shows very clearly that it wasn't like that at all.
Webber went near the wall before Massa even try his move. Something he had every right to do since he is free to choose his line as long as he isn't pushing anyone by his side. Massa knew there was a little space there and he did it knowing very well how much room he had before trying. Rubens was pushed a lot more dangerously and closer to the wall and that happened while he was already side by side with Schumi. When he tried his move he had no idea he was gonna end up so close to the wall.

#903 Slowinfastout

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 23:56

I personally think Damon Hills 3 times the line move on MS at Canada 1998 was more dangerous in which MS was the one complaining he could of been killed.

I think this Hungary 2010 move was a mistake by MS by not closing that line Rubens was trying to get through earlier and try and force him around the outside. Yence it was late, the speed of Rubens coming out of that last corner was quite immense compared to earlier laps where Brundle was commenting the mercedes engine is that little bit better, so with Rubens getting a good last corner, must of surprised MS, I knew he wasn't going to give up, but this time he was tactically too late and caught out by Rubens speed on the straight, I wasn't expecting it at that specific point, I thought Rubens would get MS into breaking into the first corner.


Using his own typical language, MS clearly told us he f*cked up the most important corner of the track, that's why Barrichello had such a run on him..

MS wasn't surprised I don't think.

#904 Kooper

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 00:04

MS chose a line and stuck to it. He had to jink left when RB ran out of road to avoid RB hitting him.

RB is the one who caused the danger. Plenty of road to the left for RB, which MS was moving away from the entire time.

That MS got any penalty for this is complete baloney in my eyes.


So, if Rubens had gone left Shoe was going to crash into the inside wall (past the pit wall)... since thats the line he chose and never veered from it.

#905 frp

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 00:06

...the speed of Rubens coming out of that last corner was quite immense compared to earlier laps where Brundle was commenting the mercedes engine is that little bit better, so with Rubens getting a good last corner, must of surprised MS,

Barrichello was not significantly faster than on previous laps; Schumacher ran wide at the apex, as he said post-race, which killed his exit speed on to the straight. From that point, his strategy was clear.

#906 lokiman

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 00:07

If anybody follows twitter, someone's now started the rather amusing #schubastard

#907 Zeroninety

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 00:25

The onboard shot from this is particularly eye opening:

http://www.wat.tv/vi...ar5_2fh4r_.html


A bit off-topic, but seeing that reminded me of how glad I am the series went back to slicks. Man, those grooves look stupid!

Edited by Zeroninety, 02 August 2010 - 00:26.


#908 man

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 00:31

I personally think Damon Hills 3 times the line move on MS at Canada 1998 was more dangerous in which MS was the one complaining he could of been killed.

I think this Hungary 2010 move was a mistake by MS by not closing that line Rubens was trying to get through earlier and try and force him around the outside. Yence it was late, the speed of Rubens coming out of that last corner was quite immense compared to earlier laps where Brundle was commenting the mercedes engine is that little bit better, so with Rubens getting a good last corner, must of surprised MS, this isn't always easy to estimate, kinda like tennis, which way will the ball come next, I knew he wasn't going to give up, but this time he was tactically too late and caught out by Rubens speed on the straight, I wasn't expecting it at that specific point, I thought Rubens would get MS into breaking into the first corner, not having almost passed arriving into the first corner.

When Senna squeezed MS in the early 90s, and MS crashed out, and MS complained after, and this is not how a 3 times world champion should behave, it must of stuck with him. As soon as you know a driver is leaving more then a acceptable margin or margin-general standard, it becomes predictable, the psychologcial game in playing with the margins is something Senna showed to Schumacher, and now and again MS will show it, even if he risks penality, because the greater reward is the Senna reward, the never give up mantle-and this is important for future races. Then deny you were doing anything more then hard racing-tough racing. Exactly what Damon Hill was trying to be at Canada 1998, trying to be more aggressive like Senna and Schumi and getting it wrong, MS still overtook him and Hill said he's a hella driver after all that.


First of all M Schumacher was whinging about Brazil 1992 where Sennas car a brand new one had electronic problems so his was quick on some parts and very slow on others an he held up pretty much the rest of the field. The Honda engine allowed him to repass M Schumacher on the straight and M Schumacher rather strangely and for no good reason whined about it after the race.

After Suzuka 1990 Senna drove fair and hard for the rest of his career. M Schumacher cannot keep justifying his antics by what a young Senna did two decades ago. Senna learned from his mistakes and became a pretty much faultless driver after Suzuka. M Schumacher is now far more experienced and older than Senna was in 1990. It is old hat and rather pathetic attempt of justification.

M Schumacher brings nothing to F1 anymore. He is slow, easy to pass, very arrogant, remorseless and dangerous to spectators, marshalls and fellow drivers.


#909 Birelman

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 00:39

I personally think Damon Hills 3 times the line move on MS at Canada 1998 was more dangerous in which MS was the one complaining he could of been killed.

I think this Hungary 2010 move was a mistake by MS by not closing that line Rubens was trying to get through earlier and try and force him around the outside. Yence it was late, the speed of Rubens coming out of that last corner was quite immense compared to earlier laps where Brundle was commenting the mercedes engine is that little bit better, so with Rubens getting a good last corner, must of surprised MS, this isn't always easy to estimate, kinda like tennis, which way will the ball come next, I knew he wasn't going to give up, but this time he was tactically too late and caught out by Rubens speed on the straight, I wasn't expecting it at that specific point, I thought Rubens would get MS into breaking into the first corner, not having almost passed arriving into the first corner.

When Senna squeezed MS in the early 90s, and MS crashed out, and MS complained after, and this is not how a 3 times world champion should behave, it must of stuck with him. As soon as you know a driver is leaving more then a acceptable margin or margin-general standard, it becomes predictable, the psychologcial game in playing with the margins is something Senna showed to Schumacher, and now and again MS will show it, even if he risks penality, because the greater reward is the Senna reward, the never give up mantle-and this is important for future races. Then deny you were doing anything more then hard racing-tough racing. Exactly what Damon Hill was trying to be at Canada 1998, trying to be more aggressive like Senna and Schumi and getting it wrong, MS still overtook him and Hill said he's a hella driver after all that.

That was not aggressive by Damon in 98, it was more like, stupid. In any case it's not nearly as bad as what we saw today.

#910 Brandz07

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 00:41

as martin said, he's just a trophy and not a threat in terms of competition, but just a threat for safety.

your not wanted michael.

#911 Muz Bee

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 00:52

MS chose a line and stuck to it. He had to jink left when RB ran out of road to avoid RB hitting him.

RB is the one who caused the danger. Plenty of road to the left for RB, which MS was moving away from the entire time.

That MS got any penalty for this is complete baloney in my eyes.

You watch through a very poor TV reception if you make that call without a state of total bias. :rolleyes:

Michael got out just in time to prevent an airplane crash of a wreck. He knew where Rubens was (right alongside) when he closed off the gap to the wall, and that Rubens would have to turn into him to get off the grass (both out on the spot) or miss turn 1 by a large margin and have a huge crash.

Cynical, dirty, dangerous, over-aggressive - and all over 10th place! He has always been accorded the most weak responses by the FIA and today just continued that. A 1 race ban would have been appropriate IMHO. I think Frank Williams should appeal it if that option is open to the team.


#912 baddog

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:09

I would like to make clear that I in fact do think this was an out of order move and deserved a penalty, as do all such infractions.

What I do have an issue with is the fact that driving standards infractions almost never incur penalties of any meaningful kind. How can anyone justify, in the light of this, not giving hamilton and vettel a similiar penalty for their shenanigans in the pitlane, or Vettel for the previous race start, or countless other incidents? We see 'cautions' given, which are a joke.

The form in recent years has been to penalise for technical infringements rigidly, to penalise for blocking in qualifying (to offset the idiot qualifying rules presumably), to penalise for pitlane speeding and light infractions, but never to penalise for driving ethics. This is wrong, but it has been the case for a long time now, and it IS high time it was changed A few dozen 10 place penalties in the last 5 years and some people would consistently behave better.

But it has to change for everyone. And that includes championship contenders, who right now, and with evidence on their side, think of themselves as immune.

I guess Schumacher forgot he isnt a championship contender ;)

Edited by baddog, 02 August 2010 - 01:10.


#913 ashnathan

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:15

Schumacher is doing nothing for his image this season and I don't think he's enjoying himself out there at the back end of the midfield. He really should call it a day again before he does kill someone

#914 marchi-91

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:15

as martin said, he's just a trophy and not a threat in terms of competition, but just a threat for safety.

your not wanted michael.

I'm sure he is and i'm sure he's not.. If so we'll take Hamilton out for every double chop he's made this year, and Kubica for that pitlane entry at Canada.

And yet again Martin Brundle and David Coulthard speak alot of gash about shit they actually can't contemplate. Probably the reason why they never won a world title. "Michael drove poorly at Canada? " He was on soft tyres for half a bloody race. He did as best he could with shit tyres.

"Michael drove poorly today" Yes because a car on Hard tyres for 63 laps is really going to have as much grip as one on fresh soft tyres.
Both of these idiots have a severe disdain of Michael Schumacher and when incidents like this happen, it rears its ugly head once again. So excuse me and the rest of the world that can pull their head out of their own arse and see these two drivers for what their comment really are.

The FIA have again made another joke of a rule. There is nothing in that move that Michael can be technically punished for. He moved once and Rubens thought, i'll have that.

#915 exmayol

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:17

This is racing! Racing is dangerous. Racing is hard. If you dont have guts to accept that - watch ballet.

I trully hope guys like MS and Hamilton will keep doing what they are known for - push it to the limits despite all that hate and hypocricy.

#916 baddog

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:19

Coulthard's comments were particularly amusing in as much as his own history of causing completely stupid accidents by refusing to yield into corners or just through obliviousness, including a couple of the biggest accidents of modern times, is pretty much unmatched.

#917 Slowinfastout

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:24

This is racing! Racing is dangerous. Racing is hard. If you dont have guts to accept that - watch ballet.

I trully hope guys like MS and Hamilton will keep doing what they are known for - push it to the limits despite all that hate and hypocricy.


The limits here weren't the wall and the pitlane... that stuff went way past the limits...

Obviously some armchair experts will never accept that.. especially when the driver who rewrote the record book doesn't either..

#918 Birelman

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:25

I'm sure he is and i'm sure he's not.. If so we'll take Hamilton out for every double chop he's made this year, and Kubica for that pitlane entry at Canada.

And yet again Martin Brundle and David Coulthard speak alot of gash about shit they actually can't contemplate. Probably the reason why they never won a world title. "Michael drove poorly at Canada? " He was on soft tyres for half a bloody race. He did as best he could with shit tyres.

"Michael drove poorly today" Yes because a car on Hard tyres for 63 laps is really going to have as much grip as one on fresh soft tyres.
Both of these idiots have a severe disdain of Michael Schumacher and when incidents like this happen, it rears its ugly head once again. So excuse me and the rest of the world that can pull their head out of their own arse and see these two drivers for what their comment really are.

The FIA have again made another joke of a rule. There is nothing in that move that Michael can be technically punished for. He moved once and Rubens thought, i'll have that.

It's been explained here before, it's not about a technical regulation. There is no technical infraction in the maneuver, but common sense, racing etiquette, morals, and just plain eye sight tells us that it was dangerous driving. Even my wife was astonished and scared for Rubens. She said something like "Que hijo de la gran p*ta, casi lo mata"

Try to understand this: No Technical infraction, just dangerous driving.

Edited by Birelman, 02 August 2010 - 01:28.


#919 arknor

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:26

Coulthard's comments were particularly amusing in as much as his own history of causing completely stupid accidents by refusing to yield into corners or just through obliviousness, including a couple of the biggest accidents of modern times, is pretty much unmatched.

i remember the spa 98 start he single handedly destroyed half the field :rotfl:

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#920 Raelene

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:27

I would like to make clear that I in fact do think this was an out of order move and deserved a penalty, as do all such infractions.

What I do have an issue with is the fact that driving standards infractions almost never incur penalties of any meaningful kind. How can anyone justify, in the light of this, not giving hamilton and vettel a similiar penalty for their shenanigans in the pitlane, or Vettel for the previous race start, or countless other incidents? We see 'cautions' given, which are a joke.

The form in recent years has been to penalise for technical infringements rigidly, to penalise for blocking in qualifying (to offset the idiot qualifying rules presumably), to penalise for pitlane speeding and light infractions, but never to penalise for driving ethics. This is wrong, but it has been the case for a long time now, and it IS high time it was changed A few dozen 10 place penalties in the last 5 years and some people would consistently behave better.

But it has to change for everyone. And that includes championship contenders, who right now, and with evidence on their side, think of themselves as immune.

I guess Schumacher forgot he isnt a championship contender ;)

:up: :up: :up: :up: I knew he would get a penalty - it was deserved, but this year has been so inconsistent in terms of penalties - we have Vettel who's done it twice, we have Hamilton racing a safety car and blocking on the straight and they get away with it (well Hamilton got away with the racing the safety car causes the stewards were inept)

and to all those - he could have killed someone - please he didn't - didn't even touch RB and RB didn't touch the wall, or need to avoid it... stupid stupid move by MS but get overyourselves..

#921 marchi-91

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:28

It's been explained here before, it's not about a technical regulation. There is no technical infraction in the maneuver, but common sense, racing etiquette, morals, and just plain eye sight tells us that it was dangerous driving. Even my wife was astonished and scared for Rubens. She said something like "Que hijo de la gran puta, casi lo mata"

Try to understand this: No Technical infraction, just dangerous driving.


Michael was moving over well before Rubens was alongside. He took that gamble, they were as bad as each other. If you cared to look you'd see that Michael straightened up as Rubens pulled alongside. He could of put him in the wall but didn't, he left enough room.

#922 marchi-91

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:30

The limits here weren't the wall and the pitlane... that stuff went way past the limits...

Obviously some armchair experts will never accept that.. especially when the driver who rewrote the record book doesn't either..


Drivers who rewrote record books have generally a reason why they rewrote them and its because of moves like those. They actually have a set.

Rubens should be applauded for that pass, not whinging about it.

#923 Birelman

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:31

Michael was moving over well before Rubens was alongside. He took that gamble, they were as bad as each other. If you cared to look you'd see that Michael straightened up as Rubens pulled alongside. He could of put him in the wall but didn't, he left enough room.

I say again, it wasn't a technical infraction, so, the technicalities won't help your case. However, you need to go and re-watch, Schumacher never straightens until after they clear the wall, and if you can't see that, u need a better monitor, or eye glasses.

#924 Birelman

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:33

Drivers who rewrote record books have generally a reason why they rewrote them and its because of moves like those. They actually have a set.

Rubens should be applauded for that pass, not whinging about it.

Re-writing the recordbook doesn't give you the right to do as you please, you're still held accountable for your actions like every other driver, in fact more so as he should set an example. :well:

#925 Slowinfastout

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:36

:up: :up: :up: :up: I knew he would get a penalty - it was deserved, but this year has been so inconsistent in terms of penalties - we have Vettel who's done it twice, we have Hamilton racing a safety car and blocking on the straight and they get away with it (well Hamilton got away with the racing the safety car causes the stewards were inept)

and to all those - he could have killed someone - please he didn't - didn't even touch RB and RB didn't touch the wall, or need to avoid it... stupid stupid move by MS but get overyourselves..


Not all squeezes are the same... just like all tackles in football aren't the same.. that's where the judgment of the Stewards comes in..

It's like these simple things just don't sink in with some people..

As for the move being dangerous, I think they were exploring the boundaries of the track and even beyond at a pretty high rate of speed.. I'm not sure if they were fully aware of the bumps and stuff there past the white line, and frankly that goes for Barrichello too..

Rubens bottomed out pretty hard as he 'rejoined' the track, so I think this could easily have ended up in tears...

I think MS got off easy with the grid penalty, which is probably lenient like that because some past incidents weren't correctly handled..

#926 Slowinfastout

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:39

Rubens should be applauded for that pass, not whinging about it.


That's just Rubens though, it has nothing to do with anything but him.

Put Kimi in his place and he would just brush it off... MS would still have been booked though, IMO.

#927 Raelene

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:42

Well, I started it as a joke, (outwebbered webber, get it?) nobody was hurt, so, no harm done.


quote from Birelman on a Webber/Kovalinen thread.....hmmm, seems in this case there was harm done even if nobody was hurt...

just as consistent as the stewards then :)

slowinfast

as I said, I agree with the penalty - I just am so p!ssed at the inconsistency of the stewards this year .... there were incidents that should have been punished. The safety car issue for me was the big one - to race a safety car deserved much much more than a drive thru (if you can call it a punishment) - the safety car is out there for a reason. How Lewham didn't get a race ban for that move, I don't understand. This is not a bash at Hamilton - but a bash at the stewards by the way.

#928 iakhtar

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:51

As much as MS polarises the fans opinions, he never makes it dull. Hero or villain, that's what every thread basically boils down to in the end and it's abit sad.

He was way too agressive defending, both drivers were lucky and MS deserved a penalty. Calling for heads to roll, attempted murder and such is going too far.

#929 Birelman

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:52

quote from Birelman on a Webber/Kovalinen thread.....hmmm, seems in this case there was harm done even if nobody was hurt...

just as consistent as the stewards then :)

slowinfast

as I said, I agree with the penalty - I just am so p!ssed at the inconsistency of the stewards this year .... there were incidents that should have been punished. The safety car issue for me was the big one - to race a safety car deserved much much more than a drive thru (if you can call it a punishment) - the safety car is out there for a reason. How Lewham didn't get a race ban for that move, I don't understand. This is not a bash at Hamilton - but a bash at the stewards by the way.

Oh, don't do that, be nice! what else did I write there? I'm pretty sure it wasn't meant the way you're trying to make it sound :well:

#930 jimm

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:53

Re-writing the recordbook doesn't give you the right to do as you please, you're still held accountable for your actions like every other driver, in fact more so as he should set an example. :well:



Dont think he was saying that it did.

#931 ViMaMo

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 01:55

That was way too dangerous, Rubens was just inches from the wall and was pushed off track. And What IF someone had exited the pitlane ?



#932 Nathan

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 02:13

I'm a Schumacher fan, I was wearing his hat during the race and I was hoping he'd be black flagged.

#933 David M. Kane

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 02:52

10 spot penalty says it all. I think MS knew who it was and showed a very angry move.

RB also had the 3rd fastest lap in today's race.

Edited by David M. Kane, 02 August 2010 - 03:00.


#934 Disgrace

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 03:01

Michael was moving over well before Rubens was alongside. He took that gamble, they were as bad as each other. If you cared to look you'd see that Michael straightened up as Rubens pulled alongside. He could of put him in the wall but didn't, he left enough room.


No he didn't!

Posted Image

Posted Image

Have you cared to look? Rubens has overlap in the first picture and oh, how about that, another car-length of space has disappeared in the second picture. Wonder how? "As" Rubens pulled alongside? He was already alongside and still kept pulling over. The pictures prove that. There is no argument about that part. And look at Schumachers head. He knows exactly what he is looking at.

He left him enough room, hence the fact that Rubens got through, but not enough room to show respect to a fellow driver and especially one who gifted him victories on a plate. One minor twitch of the steering wheel on behalf of either and this would have happened. That happened today, mind. How cruelly appropriate that motorsport should get the wake-up call.

You can justify it because no rule has technically been broken but it takes someone with no moral nor sporting code to say Schumacher is in the clear.

Schumacher and Mercedes will see it as a victory because now the whole field will be petrified of getting anywhere near him on track. Not because of his awesome skill or the fact that he is so superior, but for the fact that he will actually, deliberately and calculatingly attempt to have you off the road, as he has just proven. These drivers must respect each other, putting blind faith on each other, on track to provide us fans with the great racing, otherwise they'd never get so close. You're seriously underestimating the importance of this in all motorsport since it's inception.

Schumacher has breached this respect, showing none at all to Barrichello of all drivers, only the most experienced driver of all time. You don't hang around that long if you're rubbish. In fact, Barrichello should be hailed as a real man out there. Of course he had a moan afterwards, rightly so. But to keep his foot in it so close to wall and prevent the massive crash that Schumacher had on his mind was mindboggling in hindsight. I bet even Vettel would slam on the brakes given what he did to Webber in Turkey with even more room on the inside.

Schumacher won't make it easier for anyone else. He simply cannot be trusted out on track any longer. He gives no respect to his fellow drivers, and as such commands none. He is no longer the show, he is in fact rather slow.

The sooner he retires again, the better.

Edited by Disgrace, 02 August 2010 - 03:19.


#935 exmayol

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 03:11

I'm a Schumacher fan, I was wearing his hat during the race and I was hoping he'd be black flagged.


Cool story bro!

#936 Cr0aker

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 03:19

God shut up Rubens. He cries like a little girl all the time. Maybe he should have just thrown his steering wheel out onto the racing line in protest. Poor him, he had to give up a win due to team orders. He always forgets to mention that Michale gave up a win to him later in the season in an effort to make it up to him. He has been around longer than any driver in history, but has never even been close to the WDC. What a women.

#937 exmayol

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 03:25

It's been explained here before, it's not about a technical regulation. There is no technical infraction in the maneuver, but common sense, racing etiquette, morals, and just plain eye sight tells us that it was dangerous driving. Even my wife was astonished and scared for Rubens. She said something like "Que hijo de la gran p*ta, casi lo mata"

Try to understand this: No Technical infraction, just dangerous driving.


Exactly. When it comes to judging Michael its always more personal than technical. Even my neighbour's grandmother's parrot when heard about the penalty was astonished and scared about inconsistency of FIA decision making. It said something like "utter bs, jawohl".

#938 Disgrace

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 03:25

God shut up Rubens. He cries like a little girl all the time. Maybe he should have just thrown his steering wheel out onto the racing line in protest. Poor him, he had to give up a win due to team orders. He always forgets to mention that Michale gave up a win to him later in the season in an effort to make it up to him. He has been around longer than any driver in history, but has never even been close to the WDC. What a women.


This is unbelievably frustrating to read on behalf of common sense. It's just like when England lose their final game in the World Cup.

There is always a scrapegoat. England had the Lampard disallowed goal. This incident has the fact that it is Rubens of all drivers overtaking Michael.

It cannot be allowed to dilute the fact of the matter that is the sporting crime Schumacher committed like it has diluted the fact how awful Englands defence were against the German counters.

Edited by Disgrace, 02 August 2010 - 03:26.


#939 ViMaMo

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 03:27

Michael was moving over well before Rubens was alongside. He took that gamble, they were as bad as each other. If you cared to look you'd see that Michael straightened up as Rubens pulled alongside. He could of put him in the wall but didn't, he left enough room.


Michael straightened up after he almost put Rubens to the wall.

What do you mean "he could have put him in the wall, but he didnt" ? What a ridiculous argument !! Rubens was alongside of Schumacher, and Schumi didnt even block. This isnt blocking, its a chop right across Rubens. Send Michael to Hollywood, maybe he can be a stuntman for car chases.


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#940 Ricardo F1

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 03:29

as I said, I agree with the penalty - I just am so p!ssed at the inconsistency of the stewards this year .... there were incidents that should have been punished. The safety car issue for me was the big one - to race a safety car deserved much much more than a drive thru (if you can call it a punishment) - the safety car is out there for a reason. How Lewham didn't get a race ban for that move, I don't understand. This is not a bash at Hamilton - but a bash at the stewards by the way.

WTF? He has every right to "race the safety car" ; until the safety car reaches that line it is NOT ON THE TRACK. Hamilton missed beating it to the line by what two metres? If he had actually realized that instantly he would have got to the line before it and wouldn't even have had to serve the drive through. You want to ban him for doing that but are pissed because Schumacher got a 10 spot penalty for trying to put Barrichello in a wall???? And you didn't think it was dangerous or anyone could be harmed - check out that picture above because a picture tells a thousand words, Rubens has about a foot to his right before there's a wall - and I'm sure you're perfectly aware of what could happen if he hit that wall at that speed.


#941 Cr0aker

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 03:39

Sporting crime? Really? Give me a break. What should have been considered a great and gutsy pass has been ruined by Ruben's need to cry about MS yet again. For god sakes, he was complaining about the same crap at Massa's charity cart race a few years ago. He just can't help himself. If it had been anyone but Michale he would have only whined about half as much. No doubt that MS has a brutal streek. Guess what? All the great champions did. Which is why Rubens will never be one even if he drives another decade.

Edited by Cr0aker, 02 August 2010 - 03:43.


#942 Birelman

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 03:43

Sporting crime? Really? Give me a break. What should have been considered a great and gutsy pass has been ruined by Ruben's need to cry about MS yet again. For god sakes, he was complaining about the same crap a Massa's charity cart race a few years ago. He just can't help himself. If it had been anyone but Michale he would have only whined about half as much. No doubt that MS has a brutal streek. Guess what? All the great champions did. Which is why Rubens will never be one even if he drive another decade.

LOL Dude, you do realize that as soon as the maneuver took place everyone was outraged? nobody waited until Rubens got out of the car to do his "Bitchello" so that they'd complaint. You are wrong, plain and simple! :down:

#943 Watkins74

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 03:48

LOL Dude, you do realize that as soon as the maneuver took place everyone was outraged? nobody waited until Rubens got out of the car to do his "Bitchello" so that they'd complaint. You are wrong, plain and simple! :down:

Dude, you have about 50 posts on this one topic. What can you possibly add that you haven't told us ad nauseam.

#944 Ricardo F1

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 04:03

Dude, you have about 50 posts on this one topic. What can you possibly add that you haven't told us ad nauseam.

To be fair he's totally right. This isn't Rubens whinging which seems to be the Schumacher supporters defense - EVERYONE commenting at the time, both "experts", analysts and F1 drivers called the move completely outrageous - long before either driver got out of their respective cars.

Seriously there's no defense for Schumacher here, there's a limit and he went over it.

Edited by Ricardo F1, 02 August 2010 - 04:04.


#945 baddog

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 04:08

Michael being in the wrong is not mutually exclusive with Rubens being a whiny little bitch. I mean he was whining on the radio BEFORE the incident about Michael's defending and yet there was nothing particularly harsh about it prior to the actual event.

#946 wepmob2000

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 04:11

Sporting crime? Really? Give me a break. What should have been considered a great and gutsy pass has been ruined by Ruben's need to cry about MS yet again. For god sakes, he was complaining about the same crap at Massa's charity cart race a few years ago. He just can't help himself. If it had been anyone but Michale he would have only whined about half as much. No doubt that MS has a brutal streek. Guess what? All the great champions did. Which is why Rubens will never be one even if he drives another decade.


The point is Rubens shouldn't have needed to make 'a great and gutsy pass', he had more speed coming out of the last corner after Schumi made a mistake. Rubens was level with Schumi well before the braking zone, it should have been a straightforward simple passing manouvre, it was only Schumi's dirty driving that complicated the issue...... he clearly saw who was going to overtake him and thought he'd veer into Rubens to try and intimidate him. It seems pretty unanimous, fans like to see hard but fair racing, and in most peoples eyes Schumi took the 'hard' racing part to an unacceptable extreme today.

This isn't a new thing with Mr Schumacher (remember Spa 1995?) the only difference being he's no longer a fast and dirty driver :well:

Edited by wepmob2000, 02 August 2010 - 04:15.


#947 engel

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 04:14

Michael being in the wrong is not mutually exclusive with Rubens being a whiny little bitch. I mean he was whining on the radio BEFORE the incident about Michael's defending and yet there was nothing particularly harsh about it prior to the actual event.



nah Michale was strongarming him all the way, he 'd close doors at the very last possible moment ... he 'd wait for Rubinho to commit then close the door once he was fully committed. It's not illegal of course, it's just a tactic to unsettle the guy behind, force him into lots of reacting

#948 baddog

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 04:21

nah Michale was strongarming him all the way, he 'd close doors at the very last possible moment ... he 'd wait for Rubinho to commit then close the door once he was fully committed. It's not illegal of course, it's just a tactic to unsettle the guy behind, force him into lots of reacting

Yes but that IS what we want drivers to do.. its defensive driving and is great stuff. the wall thing is somethine else entirely but wasting time on the radio bitching about someone else daring to defend is weak.

#949 grandelinquent

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 04:22

Those of you, including Schu, who are calling Rubinho a whiner over this incident need to take a hard look at yourselves. If he had lifted, which is exactly what Michael was trying to pressure him into, neither might've walked out of the paddock under their own power. Michael owes a lot to Barrichello's bravery because the fact both will race at Spa is down to Barrichello maintaining his composure in an avoidable life threatening situation created by Schu.

Schu's BS about wanting RB to go around the outside is laughable as even after RB chose the inside Schu kept squeezing him to the wall while he was alongside, watching RB in his mirror the whole time...

Edited by grandelinquent, 02 August 2010 - 04:23.


#950 TurboF1

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 04:25

quote from Birelman on a Webber/Kovalinen thread.....hmmm, seems in this case there was harm done even if nobody was hurt...

just as consistent as the stewards then :)

slowinfast

as I said, I agree with the penalty - I just am so p!ssed at the inconsistency of the stewards this year .... there were incidents that should have been punished. The safety car issue for me was the big one - to race a safety car deserved much much more than a drive thru (if you can call it a punishment) - the safety car is out there for a reason. How Lewham didn't get a race ban for that move, I don't understand. This is not a bash at Hamilton - but a bash at the stewards by the way.


:rolleyes:

You people really are ridiculous. You realize if Hamilton had passed the safety car .2 of a second earlier there would be absolutely NO uproar about this at all, because there would have been NO RULE BROKEN. Stop over dramatizing the incident, you act like he passed the car maliciously, then went speeding pell mell through the collision site pancaking marshalls at will on his way to the pits. :drunk: