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Barrichello/Schumacher Incident


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#1051 Jeag

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:25

Got to laugh at those saying it was Rubens fault :p

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#1052 Lord Snooty

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:26

I don't usually get involved with all the bitchfests after the GPs, but after watching this particular race, If I was Rubens Barrichello, I would find Schumacher and pound the living shit out of him. Then tell him the next time, expect a crash. A big one.



What he said x2

#1053 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:26

He overtook off-track. I do that in Mariokart with the feather but in real racing, overtaking on the inside of the track is not allowed.


But the rule is shortcutting the course to gain advantage. In that situation Rubens would have lost advantage by having to run through the dirty part of the track, partly through the grass, etc. If anything it slowed him down fractionally. There was certainly no gain from it.

#1054 ivand911

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:26

To be fair, Rubens did say something a lot like 'Usually I would have backed off from something like that but not today' which implies he had the chance to do so. Not saying he needed to or should have, and in the end his move stuck, but he implied himself that he knew what was happening and made the choice to keep going for it because it was Michael and he wasnt going to be bullied.

Ill try to find the word for word quote to see if I am right about that. If anyone else can that would be good also.

Yes, he said that.


#1055 schuey100

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:26

Seems to me it's all a big fuss over nothing. Schumacher has always raced hard, just like champions and drivers from the past, Rubens decided he wanted to pass him, knew what to expect and took a risk. Schumacher left enough room in the end good move by Rubens and a good attempt at defending from a much faster car from Schumacher.

Not only did it provide some on track action it's given us something to talk about. 27 pages of it so far.

#1056 ivand911

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:28

Yes, Michael is good guy, thinking about us.

#1057 Boing 2

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:29

when ever is cutting into another driver the best option?



so you've accepted Schumacher was wrong then? :lol:





#1058 VresiBerba

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:31

Schumacher gave just enough room to RB.
Tough racing, nice overtaking.

How much room should you give to your opponents?
a car width+10cm? +50cm? +1m? +5m?

IMO, if you can fit your car through, (as RB did) there is enough room.

How about enough room to be deemed safe, would that be an option. This argument, that nothing happened and that there was 'enough room, obviously', is an extraordinary poor one.

#1059 Boing 2

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:32

:lol: love it more dramatics :up:


funny, i thought the gutter was as low as it got, apparently not.

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#1060 rolf123

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:33

But the rule is shortcutting the course to gain advantage. In that situation Rubens would have lost advantage by having to run through the dirty part of the track, partly through the grass, etc. If anything it slowed him down fractionally. There was certainly no gain from it.


Ah, but you're talking only about a time advantage which is more applicable where a car is not dicing with another one.

Cutting the track to overtake is grounds for a penalty too.

#1061 Mauseri

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:33

Michael was moving over well before Rubens was alongside. He took that gamble, they were as bad as each other. If you cared to look you'd see that Michael straightened up as Rubens pulled alongside. He could of put him in the wall but didn't, he left enough room.

Michael kept moving when Rubens was already there. And he certainly knew Rubens went there, I've never seen a driver look so hard in his mirror as Michael yesterday. So he was fully intending to stop Rubens from overtaking there, even though Rubens already was alongside.

Edited by Bianchimont, 02 August 2010 - 08:33.


#1062 JPW

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:33

Schumacher's was a little more squeeze but exactly the same principle is there, but you're right it's just because of Schumacher's name being part of this saga.

Of course it is, you see that's why Bernie loves to have him back in F1 he's the biggest name out there, the BBC (and certainly Legard) can't stop talking about him. A silly duel where cars didn't even touch for 10th place has umpteen articles and fills up the BBs.

Go to a GP and see the drivers moving around the paddock, all of them accompanied by the usual PR-lady, then some photographers, journos and the occasional fan and then there's the "Schumacher scrum", a herd of people moving around the paddock only because big Schumi is on the move :lol:

So yes this is a big thing because of Michael and Rubens added to the event with his usual whine that's all, I bet Michael has already forgotten about it but Rubens will still have his soiled underwear as a souvenir.  ;)

#1063 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:34

Ah, but you're talking only about a time advantage which is more applicable where a car is not dicing with another one.

Cutting the track to overtake is grounds for a penalty too.


He wasn't 'cutting' the track because it wasn't a short cut. Where Rubens had to drive was a disadvantage on it's own.

#1064 JPW

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:34

funny, i thought the gutter was as low as it got, apparently not.

You want some cheese to go with that.......... :lol:

#1065 Muz Bee

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:35

Some people show how unaware they are of the realities of racing or else have become completely blinkered in their following of a driver. Not surprisingly the SChumacher faithful seem to be among the most blind/loyal. Ethics in sport have plenty to do with the matter. Somehow a near catastrophic accident was only just avoided and some are saying because it didn't happen there's nothing to discuss. Like we should only investigate AFTER a disaster - doesn't happen in the world of aviation so I don't see why a near airplane wreck like this shouldn't be taken very seriously.

Some of the same people are saying Rubens came out of this badly - like he is some kind of wimp! :rolleyes: Seriously deluded people.

Michael has further lost respect of pitlane no matter what Brawn and Haug try to say. He is now a SLOW, dirty driver and a Formula One disgrace.

#1066 Jazza

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:35

Schumacher's was a little more squeeze but exactly the same principle is there, but you're right it's just because of Schumacher's name being part of this saga. When other drivers driver hard it's barely mentioned, when Schumacher does it he is trying to kill people.!


Some of us seriously do not care that it was MS. It could have been Lewis, Fernando, Rubens, Degrassi or anyone else. The move was dangerous and not on.

(I am however willing to bet that many of those defending MS would have turned purple and had a cow if it was RB squishing MS against the wall. It would have been followed by claims that any other driver would have hit the wall, but the great MS managed to fit through the gap :rolleyes: )


#1067 undersquare

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:37

yeap, ask Timo about it.


Lewis just drove on the line with no sideways move at all. Dirty mirrors, grass anyway, there's nothing in common.

These endless attempts to justify Schumi's dirty driving by misrepresenting another driver :rolleyes: . Why not be honest and just say "I like dirty driving"?

Or if you really don't like dirty driving, wtf are you doing being a fan of MS? There's only ever going to be disappointment there.

#1068 Bloggsworth

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:38

Bringing up that Schumacher has a sense of inferiority while Barrichello's name is in the same topic is laughable, Rubens Barrichello has an incredible sense of inferiority, which is partly why this incident happened... let's not get into inferiority haha. pRy is quite right that this was the perfect storm.


Schumacher is one of the best the world has ever seen, so the only reason he drives in such a manner has to be psychological. He has a rap sheet as long as your arm. Nobody doubts that he deliberately drove into Damon Hill in order to prevent Hill winning the WDC; even a half-blind steward saw that he deliberately drove into Villeneuve in order to prevent him winning the WDC, he parked his car at Rascasse in an attempt to deny Alonso pole; and let's not attempt to deny his blatant manipulation of race results, so what leads him to do these things, it is not mere competetiveness, it is something which sits in his psyche and the voice whispers in his ear "They all say that Senna was better..."

Edited by Bloggsworth, 02 August 2010 - 08:39.


#1069 schuey100

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:39

This argument, that nothing happened and that there was 'enough room, obviously', is an extraordinary poor one.


Why? It seems to me that in Formula 1 people always drive on the limit, leave just enough space, whether it's at the start, where 22 cars are fighting for a metre of track space or at the end of a straight where one driver brakes later than the other, if one doesn't back off there's a crash. This is formula 1 but the reason the guys racing are F1 drivers is because they can drive at the limit, be tough, be rough but in the end accidents are few and far between because they are that good because they can leave the smallest of gaps yet pull out at the last second to avoid an accident.

If one is saying that we should stop drivers making moves in certain situations because an accident might be caused then we'll end up with some very boring races. Almost every overtake could result in an accident, every bit of track action could result in a crash but more often that not they don't, because the drivers are left just enough room.

Ultimately it takes two to tango. Schumacher was hard, but let's be honest about this, Rubens was not pulling out, he was intent on getting by and was fighting just as hard as Schumacher. Good on him as well. He should fight hard but no one should expect Schumacher or anyone else to back down to the extent that everytime they are overtaken they move out of the way so there's no chance of an accident taking place.

#1070 ivand911

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:39

GrandPrixDiary Geneva: Michael Schumacher shoulder barges Corinna in to the fridge in an attempt to be first to the milk.

pitflaps: US Forces announce War on Terror to shift to Michael Schumacher

Men, he is dangerous. :rotfl:

#1071 ivand911

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:44

Schumacher is one of the best the world has ever seen, so the only reason he drives in such a manner has to be psychological. He has a rap sheet as long as your arm. Nobody doubts that he deliberately drove into Damon Hill in order to prevent Hill winning the WDC; even a half-blind steward saw that he deliberately drove into Villeneuve in order to prevent him winning the WDC, he parked his car at Rascasse in an attempt to deny Alonso pole; and let's not attempt to deny his blatant manipulation of race results, so what leads him to do these things, it is not mere competetiveness, it is something which sits in his psyche and the voice whispers in his ear "They all say that Senna was better..."

Imagine what voices Alonso, Lewis, Vettel and others hear. "Men, this guy Michael put the bar very high again" We have to kill someone to pass him.

Edited by ivand911, 02 August 2010 - 08:45.


#1072 schuey100

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:44

Some people show how unaware they are of the realities of racing or else have become completely blinkered in their following of a driver. Not surprisingly the SChumacher faithful seem to be among the most blind/loyal. Ethics in sport have plenty to do with the matter. Somehow a near catastrophic accident was only just avoided and some are saying because it didn't happen there's nothing to discuss. Like we should only investigate AFTER a disaster - doesn't happen in the world of aviation so I don't see why a near airplane wreck like this shouldn't be taken very seriously.

Some of the same people are saying Rubens came out of this badly - like he is some kind of wimp! :rolleyes: Seriously deluded people.

Michael has further lost respect of pitlane no matter what Brawn and Haug try to say. He is now a SLOW, dirty driver and a Formula One disgrace.


It's funny, on one hand to try to show yourself being the bastion of objectivity and then you end with "He is now a SLOW, dirty driver and a Formula One disgrace." Hehe, funny :)

I'd like to just pick on one thing you said, you stated that a near catastrophic accident was narrowly avoided and you talked about the aviation industry. Two questions.

1. Why was the accident avoided? Pure luck?
2. There are situations every race where drivers put themselves into situations where there could be a major accident. They choose to do so, just watch any start where cars are chopping and fighting for space. Should we, as in the aviation industry, make sure that it's not possible for any accident to happen?

The aviation industry has to be safe, people don't decide to get on a plane so that they get the thrill of almost colliding with other planes. They get on to travel. Trust me on this, Rubens and Michael were not in the race yesterday because there was something at the start finish line they wanted to get to.

#1073 JPW

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:46

GrandPrixDiary Geneva: Michael Schumacher shoulder barges Corinna in to the fridge in an attempt to be first to the milk.

pitflaps: US Forces announce War on Terror to shift to Michael Schumacher

Men, he is dangerous. :rotfl:

LOL :up:

However I don't think big Schumi would dare to shoulder barge Corinna, she's a tough cookie you know unlike ............ :lol:

#1074 Hacklerf

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:46

Nothing wrong with Schumacher move

#1075 goat0063

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:48

Got to laugh at those saying it was Rubens fault :p

I would like to see a picture of some of them - they must be quite supple to have their heads that far up their own backsides.....

#1076 man

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:49

Not at 300kph, and not after driving through a gutter that would have sent the car flying. How is this even debatable?



Oh my goodness :eek:

This has gone from blaming RB for trying to pass, to blaming RB for rejoining the track, to praising MS for avoiding an accident. This is beyond taking the piss :down:



Hehe... It's got to the point where all you can do is crack up with laughter ;-)

But the scarey thing is the m Schumacher fanatics appear to actually believe in the crap they write. It is celebrity worship that is as crazy as a David Icke theory. I blame the parents.

Edited by man, 02 August 2010 - 08:51.


#1077 Ricardo F1

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:50

Nothing wrong with Schumacher move

Seriously, stop it already. He got a 10 place grid penalty, he's already been found guilty.


#1078 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:52

Look, I'm not defending Schumacher here, I know when he is wrong and when he is fair. Yestersay, he was anything but fair.

However, a degree of culpability must also lay at Ruben' door. He, himself, chose to keep his foot in it and go on the inside despite seeing that Schumacher was squeezing him.

It was upmanship on Rubens' part and he himself admitted more or less that because it was Schumacher he had to go for it and that it was 'beautiful'. Let's not make Rubens' out to be a saint here, he knew the consequences but choose to stick to the inside (a) because it was psychologically gratifying for him (b) because it was Schumacher, c) there was pride at stake and lastly (d) there was a point to be had.

The last thing on Rubens' mind was getting that final point. He wanted to take it to Schumacher as an act of psychological gratification for what happened during those Ferrari years.

That's my opinion anyway.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 02 August 2010 - 08:54.


#1079 Hacklerf

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:53

So what, many people who are innocent have been judged guilty

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#1080 goat0063

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:54

Nothing wrong with Schumacher move

:rotfl: Just stick to NASCAR.......

#1081 Gareth

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:54

I bet Michael has already forgotten about it

I'm sure he'll remember when he lines up in 22nd on the grid in Spa, ready for another epic duel with Jaime Algussuari ...;)

#1082 Gareth

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:56

haha utter nonsense, so now by not moving he would be committing a second illegal move? Drivers squeeze other drivers wide and don't let them back onto the circuit often. If you run out of road you run out of road. Schumacher cannot be responsible for someone rapidly changing direction into him!

:drunk:

If you illegally move someone off track, I think you are obliged to give them space to return to the track. If you do it legally, you don't have to give that room.

As Schumacher did it illegally, I think he was obliged to give Rubens space to return rather than stay put and require Rubens to back off.

#1083 goat0063

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:57

I'm sure he'll remember when he lines up in 22nd on the grid in Spa, ready for another epic duel with Jaime Algussuari ...;)

You reckon he can qualify 12th then? Optimistic.... :p

#1084 FinnChamp

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:58

I personally would have banned Schumacher for the rest of the season. He was trying to kill his former teammate.

FinnChamp

#1085 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:58

:rotfl: Just stick to NASCAR.......


There is far far less blocking in NASCAR actually.

#1086 schuey100

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 08:59

I personally would have banned Schumacher for the rest of the season. He was trying to kill his former teammate.

FinnChamp


Hahaha, nice one. Most people wouldn't notice the sarcasm in that post, but that was funny :) Good one. :clap: :clap:

#1087 JPW

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:00

Seriously, stop it already. He got a 10 place grid penalty, he's already been found guilty.

But, but, but.... McLaren was found guilty and fined $100 million did you agree on that then and Lewis was found guilty and penalized in Spa 2008. :confused:

Can't remember you agreeing wholeheartedly with the authorities back then or is this only a selective and hypocritical thingy where you back rulings only when they fit your agenda. :lol:

#1088 ivand911

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:00

You reckon he can qualify 12th then? Optimistic.... :p

With this car and Renault, Williams and Sauber coming very strong, not very possible. FI too. Then not big penalty there. MGP car never have good top speed.


#1089 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:01

I personally would have banned Schumacher for the rest of the season. He was trying to kill his former teammate.

FinnChamp


No he wasn't. :rolleyes:


Stop exaggerating and being a drama queen.


He was trying to intimidate Barrichello and it didn't work. Simple as that.

Honestly, children should be banned from F1 forums. There is danger all the quality will disappear and replacing it will be irrational opinions of children and sychophants.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 02 August 2010 - 09:03.


#1090 FenderJaguar

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:02

I personally would have banned Schumacher for the rest of the season. He was trying to kill his former teammate.

FinnChamp


I actually agree. Totally. This wasn't "hard" racing - it was something else.


#1091 JPW

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:03

I'm sure he'll remember when he lines up in 22nd on the grid in Spa, ready for another epic duel with Jaime Algussuari ...;)

Good one :up: but remember Michael is always at his best when unfair penalties get him send to the back of the grid  ;)

#1092 JackTorrance

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:05

Q. After all you went through against Michael at Ferrari, how much satisfaction did you get out of the move?

RB: The satisfaction is from winning. I told my Brazilian friends today, I did something in 2002, and the whole situation made me do it, and I felt straightaway afterwards that I should not have done that because it was not fair. I left the team before the end of the championship to become just normal again, and I didn't want that thing.""

Here we go again, Austria 2002.

What Rubens doesnt say, is that he signed a big fat multi million contract extension later on in 2002. And again in 2004. And later on in 2005, 36 months after Austria and when his shiny new private jet parked outside, he left Ferrari and started ridiculing Schumacher in public.

#1093 VresiBerba

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:05

Wait that means you're at least 20 years old? Well I never.

As for the move, it was very aggressive but no rules were broken. The penalty is justified, however.

Of-bloody-course a rule was broken. What do you think, they penalised shumi out of pure spite.

16.1 "Incident" means any occurrence or series of occurrences involving one or more drivers, or any action by
any driver, which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to
the race director for investigation) which :
- necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41 ;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code ;
- caused a false start by one or more cars ;
- caused a collision ;
- forced a driver off the track ;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.

The FIA stewards penalised the seven-time champion as he had "illegitimately impeded car 9 during an overtaking manoeuvre." Source



#1094 lokiman

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:08

I'm honestly not sure that the ten-place grid penalty for Spa is a good idea. It'll just give him more cars to ram off the road.

#1095 VresiBerba

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:08

Why?

Because it wasn't safe, that's why.

#1096 JackTorrance

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:09

which is reported to the stewards by the race director (or noted by the stewards and referred to
the race director for investigation) which :
- necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41 ;
- constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code ;
- caused a false start by one or more cars ;
- caused a collision ;
- forced a driver off the track ;
- illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver ;
- illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.[/indent]

The FIA stewards penalised the seven-time champion as he had "illegitimately impeded car 9 during an overtaking manoeuvre." Source



Hamilton broke those with Petrov, yet only received a reprimand, was it not?

#1097 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:12

I'm honestly not sure that the ten-place grid penalty for Spa is a good idea. It'll just give him more cars to ram off the road.


I'm sure they'll give him a wide berth then.

Brundle alluded yesterday that the younger drivers see Schumacher as a trophy to collect if they pass him. That must grate Schumacher big time and probably why he's been driving so erratically. Because he's in a weak car/weak position some drivers see him as an easy target now his vulnerablities have been exposed all season long. IF he had a stronger car, I'm willing to bet that his previous aura would still be there.

As it stands, I'm willing to bet other drivers are going to think twice before trying to put a move on him.

#1098 Gene and Tonic

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:13

Petrov wasn't alongside him. Schumi's intention wasn't to break the slipstream. Got to say though that rule is so ambiguously worded - it can be down to the stewards on the day really

#1099 carbonfibre

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:14

Q. After all you went through against Michael at Ferrari, how much satisfaction did you get out of the move?

RB: The satisfaction is from winning. I told my Brazilian friends today, I did something in 2002, and the whole situation made me do it, and I felt straightaway afterwards that I should not have done that because it was not fair. I left the team before the end of the championship to become just normal again, and I didn't want that thing.""

Here we go again, Austria 2002.

What Rubens doesnt say, is that he signed a big fat multi million contract extension later on in 2002. And again in 2004. And later on in 2005, 36 months after Austria and when his shiny new private jet parked outside, he left Ferrari and started ridiculing Schumacher in public.

O good old cry baby rubens he hasn't changed much has he. This is all blown way out of proportion just because it's schumacher involved. People can deny it but it's true. People here expected that Schumacher had changed and all of sudden had become a soft "just happy to drive along" kind of driver.

The fact is he is not that kind of person. He is in here to win and works very very hard to archieve that. He will never change.

I'm sure they'll give him a wide berth then.

Brundle alluded yesterday that the younger drivers see Schumacher as a trophy to collect if they pass him. That must grate Schumacher big time and probably why he's been driving so erratically. Because he's in a weak car/weak position some drivers see him as an easy target now his vulnerablities have been exposed all season long. IF he had a stronger car, I'm willing to bet that his previous aura would still be there.

As it stands, I'm willing to bet other drivers are going to think twice before trying to put a move on him.

Yep i mean i can't understand why Webber was saying it was "feeling so good" after putting Michael down a lap, what is good in doing that in a car that is so much faster then other cars? Just because it's Michael? All the drivers were saying they wouldn't care on track if they were racing against Michael or another driver but this year has proven that they do care and make a lot more of an effort to pass Michael then any other driver.


Edited by carbonfibre, 02 August 2010 - 09:17.


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#1100 Ricardo F1

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 09:19

So what, many people who are innocent have been judged guilty

Isn't this just embarrassing at this point?