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Barrichello/Schumacher Incident


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#1351 Rinehart

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:00

At 290 kph any little inconsistency of the track can result in one of the cars getting thrown sideways.



:rotfl:

You really have got the 'I will write anything in order to bash MS' mode on haven't you!

It was close but nobody crashed. It was a bit too close and dangerous so the FIA have penalised MS. But lets be realistic, another foot or 2 of space and he wouldn't have been penalised. Its not like MS went so far over the line - like he stopped his car, got out and shot Rubens - lets keep it real, eh?

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#1352 Boing 2

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:02

Who? Name them. British I'm sure



"They only hate him because he's GERMAN!!!!111!!" :rotfl:



you know, i'm all for a bit of troll-bashing but this is like shooting fish in a barrel. :lol:


#1353 Tarzaan

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:02

20-25 years ago Barrichello would have been even more likely to get killed if the cars had touched.



But the cars not touched...

#1354 Rinehart

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:03

via twitter:

Derek warick said on BBC radio this morning that they would have black flagged schumi if there were more laps left #f1


That is a frikkin ridiculous reason not to have black flagged him.

Like saying a football player won't be red carded in the last 10 minutes because the games nearly over!



#1355 gm914

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:06

Not blind faith, some of you are simply naive living room experts.

Happens every weekend at hundreds of race tracks all around the world, this is only special because of that level that F1 holds - go to a Kart race or any race club day and see what goes on and don't even think about racing MX.

I want you on the same track as me though, you're a woose and will back out of a challenge and get a rep as a whiner in the pits - win win for me as I see it.




Better than being a scared little woosey whiner.


Ok because these vehicles will reach speeds of 300km/h.


#1356 Boing 2

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:07

:rotfl:

You really have got the 'I will write anything in order to bash MS' mode on haven't you!

It was close but nobody crashed. It was a bit too close and dangerous so the FIA have penalised MS. But lets be realistic, another foot or 2 of space and he wouldn't have been penalised. Its not like MS went so far over the line - like he stopped his car, got out and shot Rubens - lets keep it real, eh?



It a very valid point actually but a more realistic danger is a puncture. That far off the racing line there could be any amount of tyre-slicing debris, think of a 180mph blowout up against a concrete wall.....



#1357 Jazza

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:07

I have spoken a number of times with Jones and he says Schumacher is simply the greatest and scoffs at these "incidents" and the fuss thats made out of them by the media - but then again Jones'ey is also a man's man well suited for real racing and a punch up or beer afterwards if required.


Is this the same Jones who never shuts up about how bad Ford are? Constantly complaining and whining about how their rubbish, even blaming them for things that they having nothing to do with them... yet still kept driving for them because he couldn't get another car.

Hypocrite or two faced cry baby would be a better description. Especially when he keeps giving Ford all the praise in the world when doing their PR work. Money talks I guess.

Jones was almost looking at a Ban in ATCC back in the early to mid nighties for simply thumping people out of the way in some of the most unsportsmanlike driving to grace the series. You would think a real man could accept being beaten without having to resort to cowedly acts.

PS; Jones may have never shut up about how great MS was, but he had nothing good to say about his character. "Arrogant little shit" if I remember correctly.

#1358 aditya-now

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:09

Of course its coold blooded move. Its schumacher. But, he did not look at rubens wheel because he keep stering right, - he look because rubens can move to the left. Schumacher is reckless, but is not fool to die. As far as rubens start to turn to left (after pits - avoiding grass - ms start too.)

I think RB played part in this too. I mena, he did it ballsy (if that is right word) but not too ballsy considering its MSC. He should stick to line and not giving a inch as far as he was on side of MSC (not only FW - MSC would clip it). They would interlock tyres and then MSC would give room. Why? he dont have good look where is wall as rubens. He didnt push when rubens stop to move to the wall...


Yes, Rubens did play his role as well, and I think he did a little bit of psychotherapy there - I am sure what happened to him in six years as Michael´s #2 had an effect on his psychee.
In a way he was overcoming his shadow, his dominator, his übervater. I am sure that for him that feat was liberating, and it came right on the eve of his 300th GP. Well done! :up:

Also it did something to Michael´s psychee: although he was stubborn as ever, it was the final sign for him that his gestures of dominance are not working anymore in 2010.

Interesting that in two of his "moves" this year it was his former lieutenants Massa and Barrichello who Schumacher indulged with in a special way. While Massa came out short of their rencontre, Barrichello defeated his former #1.

#1359 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:09

Ok because these vehicles will reach speeds of 300km/h.


So no one dies/injured in motor sport other than F1?

Is that a joke? You said I was "one of a kind" with smart ass rolling eye smiley attached as well as the now Internet Hero callout.

black kettle pot etc.

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#1360 SimMaker

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:11

Who? Name them. British I'm sure and nothing to do with the pamper for Graham Hill's son or the utter domination over every British team mate and British driver he has had.

I have spoken a number of times with Jones and he says Schumacher is simply the greatest and scoffs at these "incidents" and the fuss thats made out of them by the media - but then again Jones'ey is also a man's man well suited for real racing and a punch up or beer afterwards if required.


I'm very glad that Formula 1 has moved on from those days.

No matter how much you wish it Cheapracer, we are not going back to the days of Hay bails for armco, camera men standing at track edge, leather helmets, or unlimited speeds through the pitlane. Nor do we want to see drivers burning to death in cars, marshalls torn to shreds as they are hit by a car, or cars flying into the crowds.

Maybe it is time you left Formula1 as it is obviously something that you no longer like, or it certainly seems that way. Its like, you are bitter that your wife left you, changed, chose another man. But instead of moving on, you stand outside their house, looking through the windows, getting ever more bitter at what could have been but will never ever be again.

The very best Cheapracer, adapt. If MSC can not adapt to the new F1, he should get out.

The irony, certainly on thse boards is, MSC has apologised, many have accepted this and want to move on. Hoping that this great man will learn, adapt, and come back stronger. Yet it is his hardcore fans who will not even acept his own apology, who are doing more damage to his legacy by constantly arguing that he did no wrong, certinaly on these boards.

We want to see wheel to wheel racing. We cant have that if one driver decides to push the other over the white line at track edge.



#1361 aditya-now

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:11

...but then again Jones'ey is also a man's man well suited for real racing and a punch up or beer afterwards if required.


Jones - a man's man? :lol:

Which man?


#1362 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:11

"They only hate him because he's GERMAN!!!!111!!" :rotfl:



you know, i'm all for a bit of troll-bashing but this is like shooting fish in a barrel. :lol:


Did I say that?? No I didn't, please feel free to read the post again.


#1363 Boing 2

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:12

Bottom line 20 years ago this wasn't exactly an out there move



20-25 years ago nobody would have cared about this...



That would have worked better as an argument if Senna hadn't been torn apart by the press for doing a LESSER version of this 20 years ago.

Oh and being accused by Prost of trying to kill him and being insane.



Oh and being attacked by fans STILL, 20 years later. :wave:




#1364 Boing 2

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:14

Did I say that?? No I didn't, please feel free to read the post again.



If you're going to embarrass yourself by stooping to bringing nationality into it you only have yourself to blame when your credibility disappears down the pooh-box :)

#1365 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:14

Also it did something to Michael´s psychee: although he was stubborn as ever, it was the final sign for him that his gestures of dominance are not working anymore in 2010.

yes, he may find it himself a little difficult to defend in a 3sec a lap slower car

#1366 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:16

No matter how much you wish it Cheapracer .....

We want to see wheel to wheel racing. We cant have that if one driver decides to push the other over the white line at track edge.


I have taken a stance on the severity of the incident, I have not defended it and have called it hard/harsh etc.

Why do people have a problem with keeping up?

At any time Barichello could have lifted, the only one eyes are the people who deny that.


#1367 gm914

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:17

Oh Cheapracer, you are one of a kind :love: :blush: :kiss:
Better?

#1368 Boing 2

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:19

At any time Barichello could have lifted, the only one eyes are the people who deny that.


when you're squeezed between a concrete wall and another car at 180 mph in an open wheen formula you have one option, keep the foot in. If he'd braked and there was even 10mm of wheel overlap he'd have caused an accident himself.

#1369 aditya-now

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:19

:rotfl:

You really have got the 'I will write anything in order to bash MS' mode on haven't you!

It was close but nobody crashed. It was a bit too close and dangerous so the FIA have penalised MS. But lets be realistic, another foot or 2 of space and he wouldn't have been penalised. Its not like MS went so far over the line - like he stopped his car, got out and shot Rubens - lets keep it real, eh?


Speaking about keeping it real, please read your own lines (above) again.

I have a lot of respect for Ronnie Peterson, I remember his death very painfully to this day, it was one of the most painful days in my own life. I will be happy if we will never have to have such days again in F1, it is a dangerous enough sport anyway, despite all the advances in safety.

Safety for sure includes the drivers behaviour.


#1370 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:21

If you're going to embarrass yourself by stooping to bringing nationality into it you only have yourself to blame when your credibility disappears down the pooh-box :)


Your grasp of English is very poor.

I did not bring nationality into it other than patriotism.

#1371 Boing 2

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:22

Your grasp of English is very poor.

I did not bring nationality into it other than patriotism.


"Your honour, i did not hurt the man in question, other than the shot that i fired into his head...."

#1372 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:35

Speaking about keeping it real, please read your own lines (above) again.

I have a lot of respect for Ronnie Peterson, I remember his death very painfully to this day, it was one of the most painful days in my own life. I will be happy if we will never have to have such days again in F1, it is a dangerous enough sport anyway, despite all the advances in safety.

Safety for sure includes the drivers behaviour.


Hang on, with respect (Ronnie was a fav of mine too) lets clear this one up - hundreds of drivers and riders have had accidents that have resulted in broken legs. Peterson was unlucky to have complications that could have also happened to those other hundreds. Broken leg crashes will never stop, doesn't matter what you do - just this weekend Superleague had one as I'm certain others around the world broke their legs too, always with risk of complications.

The blame for Peterson's accident, not his death, lies square on the Italian GP starter.

You have the choice to stay at home.

"Your honour, i did not hurt the man in question, other than the shot that i fired into his head...."


I haven't a clue what your on about.

Edited by cheapracer, 03 August 2010 - 08:36.


#1373 aditya-now

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:35

Your grasp of English is very poor.


It's interesting, cheapracer, that time and again you seem to find it necessary to become insulting and personal. To judge someone for their grasp of language is very noble.

Let's keep it to what it is: Schumacher made a trademark dangerous move, luckily nothing happened. He was duly penalized. End of story at that.

My personal view: if Michael keeps making such moves penalties like a one-race-ban or even revoking his superlicense might be in order. But that's for the stewards to decide.
Interesting Warwick made that remark with black-flagging Schumacher...

#1374 ivandjj

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:44

Warwick is prejudiced because he has an incident with Schumi in the WSC in 91 which alwasy ended a fisticuffs. I think the FIA should not let be judge ex-drivers who has common races with the current drivers.


yeah, lets ask stirling moss' or tony brooks who finished their racing before schoo was born.

i'd be astonished if they said anything else than ban schoo for life.

#1375 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:46

It's interesting, cheapracer, that time and again you seem to find it necessary to become insulting and personal. To judge someone for their grasp of language is very noble.

Let's keep it to what it is: Schumacher made a trademark dangerous move, luckily nothing happened. He was duly penalized. End of story at that.

My personal view: if Michael keeps making such moves penalties like a one-race-ban or even revoking his superlicense might be in order. But that's for the stewards to decide.
Interesting Warwick made that remark with black-flagging Schumacher...


This is an English based forum, I'm not an teacher, not my problem.

Please list cases of similar incidents where a driver has done equal or worse and had their licence taken from them ....??




#1376 Frans

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 08:56

Ah, poor Schumi-lovers.... he himself showed some decency himself, (unseen before!) and showed some respect to Rubens and said "sorry" for the dangerous move he made.

This showes some colour from the man, I never expected this to be honnest, but if he didn't he would be snowed under by critisism of the raceworld and the fans. Just a couple of weeks before Spa.

He did a smart move to appoligise to Rubens, one of the better moves he made in his carreer. (Am still waiting for the "sorry" to Damon and Jacques, but hey, ... some things will never change)

Schumi +1 :up:

#1377 marcm

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:02

I have taken a stance on the severity of the incident, I have not defended it and have called it hard/harsh etc.

Why do people have a problem with keeping up?

At any time Barichello could have lifted, the only one eyes are the people who deny that.


Clearly then in the same position you would have lifted Cheapracer?

I want you on the same track as me though, you're a woose and will back out of a challenge and get a rep as a whiner in the pits - win win for me as I see it.


Does that make you a woose who will back out of a challenge then? or is it a fair amount less simpilistic than you make out?

Perhaps that logic could be applied to any outrageous defensive move? "I'm innocent Mr Clerk of the Course - he could have lifted!"

If you tried Schumachers move to me on track ... no I wouldn't lift ... yes we may well crash ... and yes I'd think you were an unsporting **** for being too arrogant to know where to draw the line and for putting us in that position.
In this situation, schumacher has at least accepted his penalty and apologised for crossing that line. Hopefully that's the last of these moves we see from him. Incidentally - I see nothing wrong with tough racing, however if you are going to race that way you need to know where the limits are ... as far as I am concerned that doesn't include squeezing someone between a wall and your car with less than 60cm space at 180mph ... or squeezing them into the pit lane exit/onto the grass while they are fully alongside you. You still need to respect your fellow competitors on track. Do you? - it's not clear from your posts.

Edited by marcm, 03 August 2010 - 09:03.


#1378 ivand911

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:04

pitflaps: Schuey apology prompts mass journo chair toppling injury incident

#1379 ivandjj

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:10

Ah, poor Schumi-lovers.... he himself showed some decency himself, (unseen before!) and showed some respect to Rubens and said "sorry" for the dangerous move he made.

This showes some colour from the man, I never expected this to be honnest, but if he didn't he would be snowed under by critisism of the raceworld and the fans. Just a couple of weeks before Spa.

He did a smart move to appoligise to Rubens, one of the better moves he made in his carreer. (Am still waiting for the "sorry" to Damon and Jacques, but hey, ... some things will never change)

Schumi +1 :up:


You're highly delusional. He said sorry because sorry was part of the Mercedes Marketing statement prepared for him.

We shouldn't waste time on blaming schoo. We should celebrate that Rubens beat schoo at schoo's own game :clap:

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#1380 SB

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:13

I think that would be wrong, black flags should be used for continuing incidents that are proving a constant threat such as oil leaking or continuous refusal by a backmarker to move over, swerving etc not for one singular incident - that has been dealt with appropriately for a change.


Didnt Mansell was black flagged for "singular incident" for messing up in the pit-stop TWICE ! (89, 91) , or JPM got flagged by passing the pit lane red light in Canada GP few years ago ?

#1381 Rinehart

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:15

Speaking about keeping it real, please read your own lines (above) again.

I have a lot of respect for Ronnie Peterson, I remember his death very painfully to this day, it was one of the most painful days in my own life. I will be happy if we will never have to have such days again in F1, it is a dangerous enough sport anyway, despite all the advances in safety.

Safety for sure includes the drivers behaviour.


I wasn't disputing your point, just the exaggeration of it.

#1382 Muz Bee

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:24

Who? Name them. British I'm sure and nothing to do with the pamper for Graham Hill's son or the utter domination over every British team mate and British driver he has had.

I have spoken a number of times with Jones and he says Schumacher is simply the greatest and scoffs at these "incidents" and the fuss thats made out of them by the media - but then again Jones'ey is also a man's man well suited for real racing and a punch up or beer afterwards if required.

You're out of your depth and talking rubbish. I'll give you a clue - I'm not British, somewhat south of that "old chap". The drivers of earlier F1 eras bemoan the lack of respect which appears to come from the feeling of invincibility inside a carbon tub. I have interviewed numerous F1 champions and works drivers of the 60s and 70s and the feeling that Schumacher would have been taken aside for a chat if he tried that sort of stuff back then, is pretty universal. I think the safety of the cars and tracks has tended to blind some drivers to their mortality. I can accept that times change and rules and interpretations will inevitably (and rightly) move on.

The armchair defenders of Michael are swimming against the tide of sporting, official and historic reason. That was a potentially lethal stunt, even Michael now agrees on review that he was out of line. I can't see why you can't.

#1383 Muz Bee

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:26

pitflaps: Schuey apology prompts mass journo chair toppling injury incident

You trivialise a serious safety incident. In the super lax rulings of 2010 Michael received a penalty and Michael makes what is probably the first public apology of his career.

#1384 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:31

You trivialise a serious safety incident. In the super lax rulings of 2010 Michael received a penalty and Michael makes what is probably the first public apology of his career.


Of course, because Lewis-Vettel, Vettel-Webber, Kubica-Sutil (and probably more) were so much less serious. Pfff...

You do realize that if in any of these incidents (and Senna-Prost, Webber-Massa 08) one of the drivers would have made a mistake the consequences could have been the same as in the Schumi- Barri fight? 20 cm distance to wall or 40 cm makes almost no difference. And it surely can't be the difference between "clean fight" and "omg, he tried to murder him".

Schumacher was wrong to keep pushing Barri too close to the wall. He was rightly penalized. But that's enough.

Edited by Diablobb81, 03 August 2010 - 09:38.


#1385 frp

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:34

I haven't a clue what your on about.



#1386 as65p

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:39

Of course, because Lewis-Vettel, Vettel-Webber, Kubica-Sutil (and probably more) were so much less serious. Pfff...

You do realize that if in any of these incidents (and Senna-Prost, Webber-Massa 08) one of the drivers would have made a mistake the consequences could have been the same as in the Schumi- Barri fight? 20 cm distance to wall or 40 cm makes almost no difference. And it surely can't be the difference between "clean fight" and "omg, he tried to murder him".


I think you're dead wrong, degrees make all the difference in racing. Take closing the door before a corner, the same move ranges from absolutely fair to nasty chop, only depending on how close to the corner it is done.

#1387 valachus

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:49

Every time i watch this i think how bad it could have been, if a car was leaving the pits and collided with them.


And let's not even stop to contemplate how a little kid, left unattended, might have crossed the track at that very moment, oblivious of the monster in the mercedes hurtling towards him.

Edited by valachus, 03 August 2010 - 09:59.


#1388 Diablobb81

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 09:49

I think you're dead wrong, degrees make all the difference in racing. Take closing the door before a corner, the same move ranges from absolutely fair to nasty chop, only depending on how close to the corner it is done.



You talk about "range" of interpreting the legality and just punishment for a move.

That's what i'm saying too. For me it's completely absurd to jump directly from fair racing to accusing someone of attempted murder, asking for his license etc.

Because in the end, no matter how you look at it there is a simple fact : Michael did leave enough room. Too little for the move to be completely fair but enough so as not to massively increase the chance of an accident.



#1389 SimMaker

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:03

You talk about "range" of interpreting the legality and just punishment for a move.

That's what i'm saying too. For me it's completely absurd to jump directly from fair racing to accusing someone of attempted murder, asking for his license etc.

Because in the end, no matter how you look at it there is a simple fact : Michael did leave enough room. Too little for the move to be completely fair but enough so as not to massively increase the chance of an accident.


Where is the track edge defined? The white line.

Do you have to go back and look at the multitude of images to see that he had pushed Bubens off the track? Or are you saying the wall is the track edge? Because if you are, you are wrong.

#1390 as65p

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:18

You talk about "range" of interpreting the legality and just punishment for a move.

That's what i'm saying too. For me it's completely absurd to jump directly from fair racing to accusing someone of attempted murder, asking for his license etc.

Because in the end, no matter how you look at it there is a simple fact : Michael did leave enough room. Too little for the move to be completely fair but enough so as not to massively increase the chance of an accident.


Appears you base judgement solely on the result of the incident, which is of ourse that nothing happened.

But that's a bit dishonest I have to say. Of course theoretically you only need 1mm on each side for Rubens car to go through, but practically that will never work. MS gave more than 1mm obviously, but still it appears obvious that the risk was unacceptably high, I dare say the exact same wouldn't work a second time, it was pure luck, because the margins were too small to be covered safely by even a F1 drivers skills. This is practically confirmed by MS changing his mind after he saw it on TV, because only then he realized how close it really was, i.e. too close for comfort.

In comparison to Senna/Prost at Estoril '88 I was always, long before, of the opinion that it wasn't half as dangerous as made out, because there the margins were big enough, certainly for the two best drivers of their era. IOW I believe they could repeat that manouever at will a dozen times without touching once.

Not so with MS/RB on Sunday, and that's the big difference, IMO.

#1391 marchi-91

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:22

Where is the track edge defined? The white line.

Do you have to go back and look at the multitude of images to see that he had pushed Bubens off the track? Or are you saying the wall is the track edge? Because if you are, you are wrong.


Then what right did Rubens have to put his car there when Schumachers move across the track never made a massive deviation. He was aiming his car at the wall and Rubbens went for the gap. Not only did Rubens make an illegal pass, but also and illegal chop.

#1392 Jazza

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:29

Then what right did Rubens have to put his car there when Schumachers move across the track never made a massive deviation. He was aiming his car at the wall and Rubbens went for the gap. Not only did Rubens make an illegal pass, but also and illegal chop.


Because you can't just drive diagonally down the track. You pick a line and stick to it by going straight. Slowly drifting across the track over several seconds is a dirty move which will mostly result in a crash or the passing driver having to hit the brakes. It has the same effect as weaving.


#1393 SimMaker

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:40

Then what right did Rubens have to put his car there when Schumachers move across the track never made a massive deviation. He was aiming his car at the wall and Rubbens went for the gap. Not only did Rubens make an illegal pass, but also and illegal chop.


Stupidly, he probably thought that MSC would'nt push him off the track. Which as the Stewards agree, is illigal, dangerous and will be punsihed.

The good news is, this will now be stamped on, as it should have been years ago. This is racing, not boy racer Playstation crap, MSC should know better.

Deep down, MSC fans know he did wrong, hence the bitter rage and anger. Frankly, since the man himself has apologised, some on here are looking very foolish. Once heads cool, I think some of you will regret saying what you have. Especially when someone puts MSC off the track next time.

For myself, I can be consistent*, and still call it wrong. Where some of you will no doubt do a complete 180, and look even more desperate.

Come now. You are just going to have to deal with this in a more mature way. Nothing is going to change for the better from your contstant defending of this particular incident.

Be like your (our) hero. Learn, then let it go. It is the only way to move on to better things.

Peace. :smoking:

* Wanted to say, that one of the things that bugs me too, is the way the Hairpin at Hocheneim (sic) is used. Hammy does it a lot (Or I notice him doing it more than most) has this habit of pushing anyone over the white line should they try to overtake on the outside. I think that too is wrong. Keep it between the lines boys. And give your fellow racers room.

Edited by SimMaker, 03 August 2010 - 10:43.


#1394 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:50

Appears you base judgement solely on the result of the incident, which is of ourse that nothing happened.

But that's a bit dishonest I have to say. Of course theoretically you only need 1mm on each side for Rubens car to go through, but practically that will never work. MS gave more than 1mm obviously, but still it appears obvious that the risk was unacceptably high, I dare say the exact same wouldn't work a second time, it was pure luck, because the margins were too small to be covered safely by even a F1 drivers skills. This is practically confirmed by MS changing his mind after he saw it on TV, because only then he realized how close it really was, i.e. too close for comfort.

In comparison to Senna/Prost at Estoril '88 I was always, long before, of the opinion that it wasn't half as dangerous as made out, because there the margins were big enough, certainly for the two best drivers of their era. IOW I believe they could repeat that manouever at will a dozen times without touching once.

Not so with MS/RB on Sunday, and that's the big difference, IMO.



Probably the picture I want to bring under your attention can be found elswhere bigger.
But this is the only location I know out of the top of my head where to find it.

http://forix.autospo.../8w/wc1989.html

When this page is opened, look for the three pictures under the header: The F1 situation ahead of the 1989 season
The most left picture is the one I would like to bring under your attention. This were Senna & Prost in Portugal '88

I wonder how often this could have been repeated by these two drivers without any serious consequenses for in particular one of them as is suggested in the quote above.
That move was way beyond the limits of acceptable behaviour back then (even more then then that is it nowadays) but since it was left unpunished it justified similar and other kinds of misbehaving ever since.

Having said this: I wished that we could see Heidfeld in the Mercedes for at least three races or so. Though that would probably ruin his career like what happened with Badoer and Fisi when they got into the Ferrari last year without the benefit of any testing of the car.
What MS did was out of order and apart form being glad that Rubens wasn't paying the price for it, it was great to see him getting the better of MS. One of his best moments ever in exposing "the real MS"

Henri

#1395 ivand911

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 10:52

http://www.planet-f1...i-black-flagged
Former Formula One driver Derek Warwick, a steward at the Hungarian Grand Prix, has revealed he wanted to disqualify Michael Schumacher from the race.

Warwick believes showing the German the black flag would have sent a better message to young drivers that such behaviour would not be tolerated.

The Mercedes veteran received a 10-place grid penalty for the next round of the championship in Belgium for the dangerous move which saw him almost edge Williams' Rubens Barrichello into the pit wall at 180mph during the closing stages of Sunday's race.

After initially defending his move, Schumacher on Monday issued an apology to Barrichello, who partnered him at Ferrari from 2000 to 2005.

...........

Edited by ForeverF1, 03 August 2010 - 10:59.
Please adhere to the rulres on Plagiarism.


#1396 stevvy1986

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:09

Worth noting that Warwick and the stewards only didn't throw the black flag because it was so late in the race, they had to view the video evidence, and then all agree on a suitable punishment, pass the information to the team, and get it confirmed that the team received notification of the black flag, all before the end of the race (not really possible with what, 2-3 laps to go). Had it been earlier in the race, and they'd had enough time to sort it before the end, they'd have more than likely thrown the black flag.

Edited by stevvy1986, 03 August 2010 - 11:10.


#1397 SimMaker

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:15

Worth noting that Warwick and the stewards only didn't throw the black flag because it was so late in the race, they had to view the video evidence, and then all agree on a suitable punishment, pass the information to the team, and get it confirmed that the team received notification of the black flag, all before the end of the race (not really possible with what, 2-3 laps to go). Had it been earlier in the race, and they'd had enough time to sort it before the end, they'd have more than likely thrown the black flag.



It is something for the cooler heads in the MSC fan group to understand.

One major worry of MSCs return, is/was his legacy. Well, so far, so good-ish. But, if he does as his fans suggest, and continue to race "as is", then he is going to get kicked out of the sport for "cheating" and forcing other drivers off the track.

THEN you can bet any monoey you like, his legacy will be looked at again, and history may not be so kind about it as it is today.

#1398 pRy

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:18

What is curious from DW's comments is it sounds like Schumacher was very dismissive during the post race stewards interview. I wonder if they had the video evidence available to watch during the "hearing"?

Edited by pRy, 03 August 2010 - 11:18.


#1399 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:20

Regulations allow for penalties to be applied after the race if they are decided on within 5 laps of the end.

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#1400 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:31

Worth noting that Warwick and the stewards only didn't throw the black flag because it was so late in the race, they had to view the video evidence, and then all agree on a suitable punishment, pass the information to the team, and get it confirmed that the team received notification of the black flag, all before the end of the race (not really possible with what, 2-3 laps to go). Had it been earlier in the race, and they'd had enough time to sort it before the end, they'd have more than likely thrown the black flag.



Pity it didn't happen, that black flag. A grid penalty isn't as harsh as a black flag (and seen as a hard penalty) given the fact that a unlucky fellow who needs an engine or gearbox ends up with a similar penalty if only for 5 places.

Henri