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Barrichello/Schumacher Incident


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#1451 Jazza

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:28

Here's an on board gif.

Posted Image

It sure was a gusty move, and it sure made the race more exciting. All's fair in love and war I say, penalty not required. But! I aint a steward lol


RB has wheel spin at 300kph while still straightening the car :eek:

Even after he was ahead that car could have gone anywhere.

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#1452 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:30

And even during those macho times the drivers knew that dragging the opponent into a concrete wall would end in a fatal crash.

Something your hero Michael Dumbmaker forgot last Sunday.


Yeah right, fatal for who oh drama queen? So if there had been a contact/crash, Schumacher just would have driven away without even a scratch on the car while Rubens would have died in flames are you proposing?

Actually I propose that it would be MS's car that would have came out worse , contact would have turned him right into the pit exit area after the wall end while at worst Rubens would be sliding left across a nice wide track losing speed. Have a look at the recent Vettle / Webber clash at Turkey for example.

What did you think would happen to Rubens car hitting the wall at a 1 or 2 degree angle from just a foot away? How about nothing or doesn't that fit into your incredible dramatisation?

2 cars contact = almost always 2 cars out or damaged, historical fact.





#1453 hotstickyslick

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:31

Hunt laid into Patrese because he was looking for a scapegoat. The witch hunt and kangaroo court that followed was one of the most shameful episodes in F1 history. Peterson's accident was started by Hunt himself.

Indeed. Just used it as an example to rubbish cheapracer's views on that era.

#1454 man

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:32

A race incident can not compare to a scandal, your on the wrong track. I never saw sponsors running from Senna, the opposite in fact.


Senna was quick right to his last days. M Schumacher is slow and being outclassed by his teammate. Senna's last dirty move was at Suzuka 1990, after which he was as clean as anybody else. M Schumacher is older and more experienced now than Senna was in 1990...he is much slower, merely making up the numbers in the midfield-tailend of the field. Senna learned from his mistakes as he got older. M Schumacher is as arrogant as ever and to make things worse, is being shown the way by half of the field.


#1455 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:35

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Had they made contact and had an aeroplane crash as the BBC commentators put it, it wouldn't be ridiculous to think he could've leapt the barriers and got down the escape tunnel.

#1456 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:40

Senna was quick right to his last days. M Schumacher is slow and being outclassed by his teammate. Senna's last dirty move was at Suzuka 1990, after which he was as clean as anybody else. .




Hmmmm
Brazil 1992?
I watched that race in the company of two Brazilians and even they were embassed about the manner how their hero Senna blocked his pursuers until he retired from the race.
The pursuer?

Schumacher!!!!!
Who, after the race stated that all kind of comments about a world champion behaving on the track like he did.
Oh. those were the days.....



PS to the Senna fans who know me and my feelings about Senna: It was actually a great evening I had among those Senna fans watching an F1 race!
And yes, they knew I was anti but that didn;t maater because we had TV, a race to watch, food and drinks and fun...


Henri


#1457 Rob

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:42

Had they made contact and had an aeroplane crash as the BBC commentators put it, it wouldn't be ridiculous to think he could've leapt the barriers and got down the escape tunnel.


Pedro Lamy did that at Silverstone in the Lotus. He had a lucky escape there.

#1458 carbonfibre

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:44

If if if if if...

Lot's of if's flying around in this thread.

#1459 man

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:46

Hmmmm
Brazil 1992?
I watched that race in the company of two Brazilians and even they were embassed about the manner how their hero Senna blocked his pursuers until he retired from the race.
The pursuer?

Schumacher!!!!!
Who, after the race stated that all kind of comments about a world champion behaving on the track like he did.
Oh. those were the days.....



PS to the Senna fans who know me and my feelings about Senna: It was actually a great evening I had among those Senna fans watching an F1 race!
And yes, they knew I was anti but that didn;t maater because we had TV, a race to watch, food and drinks and fun...


Henri



Which is a load of old cobblers i'm afraid ;-)

The 1992 Brazilian GP featured the MP4/7 for the first time which had masses of new electronics. Berger and Senna's McLaren had severe problems throughout the weekend. During the race Senna held up the entire field except those that were already ahead as his car constantly cut out. His car cut out which allowed M Schumacher to pass but just as they got to the long start finish straight it kicked in again and he got a tow and passed M Schumacher. Senna did nothing wrong in that race...if you believe otherwise, please provide evidence. I have the race in full on dvd and some old race reports too.

Open another topic if you wish to...not really relevant in this thread.

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#1460 Henrytheeigth

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:50

If if if if if...

Lot's of if's flying around in this thread.


Better if's than cars my friend :wave:

#1461 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:52

Pedro Lamy did that at Silverstone in the Lotus. He had a lucky escape there.


Nice pun :p

#1462 Sakae

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:53

I would rather say the undifferentiated opinion of the Schumacher apologists is a shame. I can give you that: you do resemble your idol. Stubborn and unrepentant. Congrats.

Schumacher has issued formal appology for scarring little Rubens. Nothing more to it, as I read it. I do not drive the car, my underwear is clean and dry, and for him it's a day at the office. No problem, no need to go hysterical at the laptop.

#1463 SimMaker

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:53

Better if's than cars my friend :wave:


Oh you are good. :love:

Edited by SimMaker, 03 August 2010 - 13:53.


#1464 Henri Greuter

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 13:58

Which is a load of old cobblers i'm afraid ;-)

The 1992 Brazilian GP featured the MP4/7 for the first time which had masses of new electronics. Berger and Senna's McLaren had severe problems throughout the weekend. During the race Senna held up the entire field except those that were already ahead as his car constantly cut out. His car cut out which allowed M Schumacher to pass but just as they got to the long start finish straight it kicked in again and he got a tow and passed M Schumacher. Senna did nothing wrong in that race...if you believe otherwise, please provide evidence. I have the race in full on dvd and some old race reports too.

Open another topic if you wish to...not really relevant in this thread.



No need for another thread.
You proclaimed Senna to have been clean since Suzuka 1990.
Well, if some Senna fans from his own country with who I attend a race feel embarrased about the behaviour of their hero, then who am I to believe they are wrong and suggesting this to have been an occasion in which his track behaviour was not as clean as you suggest.
I likely sholuld have forgotten the entire matter already had it not been for the special circumstances in which i saw that race.
I also recall (But have to look it up in which manner) that the Autocousre Annual of that year mentioned it how ruthless Senna was in his defence of position in their race report .

Other then tha, It's okay with me to leave it from here.

Henri

#1465 man

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:04

No need for another thread.
You proclaimed Senna to have been clean since Suzuka 1990.
Well, if some Senna fans from his own country with who I attend a race feel embarrased about the behaviour of their hero, then who am I to believe they are wrong and suggesting this to have been an occasion in which his track behaviour was not as clean as you suggest.
I likely sholuld have forgotten the entire matter already had it not been for the special circumstances in which i saw that race.
I also recall (But have to look it up in which manner) that the Autocousre Annual of that year mentioned it how ruthless Senna was in his defence of position in their race report .

Other then tha, It's okay with me to leave it from here.

Henri


Yep..continue feeding off your smudged and flawed memory and long lost friends! M Schumacher complained after the race that Senna shouldn't have behaved like that...he was merely upset because Senna was holding him up and as well as the rest of the field and M Schumacher couldnt find a way pass. He did find a way pass only for Senna to blast straight pass again. Thats what pissed off M Schumacher. The Brazilian tv coverage that day gave a lot of attention to Senna's McLaren that day as Mansell and Patrese were in a class of their own. You can watch pretty much the whole of Senna's race without interuption. Senna drove a fine race that day and as James Hunt commented, he had every right to hold up the field as he did.


#1466 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:07

So people driving like complete tw@ts was never scored on back then? Want to double check that? Didn't hard drivers like James Hunt lay it into Patrese for RP's death in '78? No idea where you're coming from.


I think you had better take your own advice and check yourself.

Hunt the Shunt (and thats the public version, the drivers had a similar sounding one) - now how ever did he get a name like that ....,

Convenient for Hunt as he was the one who shit himself when Patrese came across and Hunt hit Peterson. Hunt immediately starting blaming Patrese for it and the British press grabbed it. Not that it was Patrese's or Hunt's fault at the end of the day, read up on what actually happened at the start yourself.

James Hunt, he's champion of the world, right? The problem is he thinks he's king of the god-damn world as well!" - Mario Andretti 1977


"To hell with safety. All I want to do is race." - James Hunt to Niki Lauda, Mosport 1976

"There are too many old drivers in this sport. A few years ago a couple of drivers a year got killed and no one took any notice. It was a sort of natural culling." - Bernie Ecclestone, 1993

"It is the best accident I've had in Formula 1 so far." - Jacques Villeneuve describes his spectacular shunt at Eau Rouge at Spa, 1998

"It was a great race. No one got killed." - Juan Manuel Fangio 1958 Italian Grand Prix

How about the "lack of scoring" on Jim Clark and his stupid outside passing attempt that killed Von Trips and 15 spectators in the 1961 Italian GP of which the British press doesn't seem to mention very much of and every top driver list conveniently forgets but mentions every single Schumacher incident ...

From the Timesonline top 3 F1 drivers, not one mention of Clark, 1961 Monza and 16 people dead but look at Schumacher's scorecard .... also check out Senna, not a single mention of so many mentionable incidents and what a saint he also comes over as to readers who know no better.


3. Michael Schumacher

3.1.1969

Germany

Grands prix: 250

Wins: 91

World Championships: 7 (1994, 95, 2000, 01, 02, 03, 04)


If statistics were the yardstick by which we measured the greatest of all time, this would be a walkover for Schumacher. He was the greatest record-breaker in the history of sport. You name it, he achieved it. He was also the consummate team-builder, creating a squad at Ferrari that was completely dedicated to him. He rewarded them with a level of commitment in the cockpit that was not only awe-inspiring but dominant for more than a decade. Yet, his incredible focus was both his strength and his downfall. He won his first title in 1994 amid dubious circumstances after crashing into Damon Hill, preventing the Briton from winning the championship. In 1997, he was expunged from the official records after doing the same to Jacques Villeneuve and who can forget, even near the end of his career, how he parked his Ferrari across the track at Monaco to prevent Fernando Alonso taking pole. Utterly ruthless, some may say a downright cheat. It is a shadow that will fall long across a truly great career from a truly extraordinary sportsman.


2. Ayrton Senna

21.3.1960 to 1.5.1994

Brazil

Grands prix: 161

Wins: 41

World Championships: 3 (1988, 90, 91)


Ayrton Senna has been elevated to the status of a legend as much because of the dramatic circumstances of his death in front of a worldwide television audience. The world held its breath on that day in May 1994, as doctors tried to extricate the three-times champion from the wreckage of his Williams. The Brazilian had started the San Marino Grand Prix desperately trying to fend off the challenge of Michael Schumacher, the pretender to his throne, when his car careered off the Imola circuit into a wall. Senna could be regarded as the forerunner to the modern grand-prix driver, as dedicated to his fitness as he was to his technical ability and understanding of the the modern grand-prix car. When he was hired by McLaren to partner Alain Prost, he was not remotely overawed to be alongside an established champion. He just worked harder until Prost had to move on. Ruthless, private and yet a practical joker, particularly in the company of Gerhard Berger and Ron Dennis, his McLaren team principal, Senna was the complete driver: brave, fast, skilful, exciting and daring. We will never know whether Senna would have overcome Schumacher in what could have been one of the most fascinating battles in the history of Formula One.


1. Jim Clark

4.3.1936 to 7.4.1968

Great Britain

Grands prix: 72

Wins: 25

World Championships: 2 (1963, 65)


There was always the feeling that Jim Clark could drive a milk float and make it fly around a grand-prix track. Adept in saloon cars and sports cars, he was the yardstick by which every driver wanted to measure themselves in Formula One. There was nothing he could not do at the wheel of a Formula One car and his marriage with Lotus was made in grand-prix heaven. The shy son of a Scottish border farmer had little to say for himself and would have been out of place in today‘s publicity-hungry environment, ruled by sponsors flinging around money and demanding the attention of the drivers they backed. Clark was a gentleman amateur who drove simply because he loved driving. And he was sublime at the wheel, his touch and feel for his car and the circuit without peer. He could administer a trouncing that would leave his rivals in admiration, no more so than at the extraordinary Spa-Francorchamps circuit in Belgium. In the 1960s, the circuit was more than eight miles long, winding through the dense forests of the Ardennes, with its quixotic micro-climate, which struck on race day for the Belgian Grand Prix in 1963. Clark drove through the pouring rain to lap the entire field, which effectively put him eight miles in front of his nearest challenger. Clark was also impressively accident-free, registering only three crashes in eight Formula One seasons, which only underlines the paradox of his death. In a minor Formula Two race at Hockenheim, his car flew off the track into the trees and he was killed instantly. Formula One stood still and his death even now ripples through the sport. The quiet man from Scotland was gone, but the memories of his immense talent live on.



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#1467 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:11

The only thing more bizarre than Schumacher's behaviour are the fans that still support this joke.

It seems like he's determined to take whatever few fans he had left over the years and get rid of them all. It goes to show that from start (Hill), to middle (Villeneuve) to finish (hopefully this season), Schumacher has no respect for the rules of driving or other drivers, even a driver who sacrificed most of his career for Schumacher.

I agree with Barrichello: this was an unnecessarily dangerous move from an obviously slower car, the penalty however, was a joke.

They should have black-flagged Schumacher right on that lap and got him out of the car.


Honestly, this is the most pathetic driving move made since Nelson Piquet Jr.

#1468 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:14

Here's an on board gif.

Posted Image

It sure was a gusty move, and it sure made the race more exciting. All's fair in love and war I say, penalty not required. But! I aint a steward lol


I have no great problem with the wall area it just looked dramatic and I still say Rubens should have backed out at the overpass but if anything I would critisize MS's squeeze well after the wall where the pit lane finally dissapears onto the main track when Rubens was a wheel in front by then.


#1469 goldenboy

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:16

Google is your friend, find the hard drivers of F1, GV, Pironi, Jones, Prost, Senna, Alesi, Mansell, Piquet, Hunt to mention a few.... around the late 70's to early 90's was a great era for men who drank beer or scotch from a cracked dirty glass with a hair in it.

I saw AJ at a bar in gold caost last year drinking scotch. In the morning.;) But hey, it was Indy.

Edited by goldenboy, 03 August 2010 - 14:19.


#1470 SimMaker

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:17

Cheapracer.

In the post above you slate other drivers for dangerous driving? In the golden era of "hard men" you keep on about.

yet you cheer on MSC for his dangerous driving today?

lol. But really, walk away my friend, your brain is looking like Spagetti at the moment, and you are contradicting yourself with every post.

Fans like you, Shumacher does not need. Really.

#1471 scheivlak

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:17

How about the "lack of scoring" on Jim Clark and his stupid outside passing attempt that killed Von Trips and 15 spectators in the 1961 Italian GP of which the British press doesn't seem to mention very much of and every top driver list conveniently forgets but mentions every single Schumacher incident ...

From the Timesonline top 3 F1 drivers, not one mention of Clark, 1961 Monza and 16 people dead but look at Schumacher's scorecard .... also check out Senna, not a single mention of so many mentionable incidents and what a saint he also comes over as to readers who know no better.

Lot of things to be said about your post, but I'm very much inclined to think that Monza 1961 was von Trips' own fault.
See also the discussion on TNF: http://forums.autosp...w...0&start=120 and especially Graham Gauld's post (#144).

Edited by scheivlak, 03 August 2010 - 14:19.


#1472 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:19

If statistics were the yardstick by which we measured the greatest of all time, this would be a walkover for Schumacher. He was the greatest record-breaker in the history of sport. You name it, he achieved it. He was also the consummate team-builder, creating a squad at Ferrari that was completely dedicated to him. He rewarded them with a level of commitment in the cockpit that was not only awe-inspiring but dominant for more than a decade. Yet, his incredible focus was both his strength and his downfall. He won his first title in 1994 amid dubious circumstances after crashing into Damon Hill, preventing the Briton from winning the championship. In 1997, he was expunged from the official records after doing the same to Jacques Villeneuve and who can forget, even near the end of his career, how he parked his Ferrari across the track at Monaco to prevent Fernando Alonso taking pole. Utterly ruthless, some may say a downright cheat. It is a shadow that will fall long across a truly great career from a truly extraordinary sportsman.


Sorry, but history will look back on the Ferrari-Schumacher years very differently. He had the support of a corrupt F1, with Ferrari's secret technical veto, and the lack of enforcement on the year he was using traction control. He also had the full support of Bridgestone, to the detriment of all other teams.

Stats don't tell anything about a driver. No one will talk about Schumacher 20 years from now the way they talk about Gilles Villeneuve, Ayrton Senna, Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart, etc. He'll be put in the Prost box: good numbers, solid driver, but crap sportsman.

#1473 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:19

etc etc

It is 2010 and F1 is not the same as it was in those days. I don't switch on my TV hoping to see someone die in a fireball any more than I would expect to see the Black and White Minstrels singing Swanee. Your argument, or the argument that you are participating in here, is a distraction from the fact that in today's F1 what Schumacher did was not acceptable, the stewards agreed, and the man has apologised.

#1474 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:19

Indeed. Just used it as an example to rubbish cheapracer's views on that era.


So you used a lie that you knew was a lie as an example? You understand the underlining theme of this thread is about honor and decency don't you? :confused:

FWIW I lived through that era that I am refering to and have followed F1 in print since the late 60's and seen every race since 1978.


#1475 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:20

I have no great problem with the wall area it just looked dramatic and I still say Rubens should have backed out at the overpass but if anything I would critisize MS's squeeze well after the wall where the pit lane finally dissapears onto the main track when Rubens was a wheel in front by then.


Not to mention after he passed the old fart in the Mercedes, he was 3 seconds faster.



#1476 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:28

It is 2010 and F1 is not the same as it was in those days. I don't switch on my TV hoping to see someone die in a fireball any more than I would expect to see the Black and White Minstrels singing Swanee. Your argument, or the argument that you are participating in here, is a distraction from the fact that in today's F1 what Schumacher did was not acceptable, the stewards agreed, and the man has apologised.


Debate!

And I have said/agreed it was a hard/harsh move, I am not distracting from that merely putting it into various context for comparison as will happen in a discussion forum.

And there is a partial debate on why it isn't acceptable these days, not the deaths of course, the hard racing.

If you want to by all means close the thread, there is no more to say on the actual incident itself, it has continued to all the peripherals as it was always going to from the very moment the name Schumacher was mentioned and if you want to point fingers then start elsewhere because I was very late to this thread, didn't even watch the race till Monday night.

But as ever I will abide by any Moderators request if so :cool:



#1477 valachus

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:28

Not to mention after he passed the old fart in the Mercedes, he was 3 seconds faster.


Not to mention that tyre conditions were a factor for the relative speed between the cars, but hey, details matter little in the fine arts of trolling.

#1478 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:31

Not to mention after he passed the old fart in the Mercedes, he was 3 seconds faster.


Wow thats incredible, you mean the Guy who had just pitted and was on fresh softs near the end of the race was faster?

Cheapracer.

yet you cheer on MSC for his dangerous driving today?


Oh really? refresh my memory and point me to that post thanks.

Edited by cheapracer, 03 August 2010 - 14:34.


#1479 hotstickyslick

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:33

So you used a lie that you knew was a lie as an example? You understand the underlining theme of this thread is about honor and decency don't you? :confused:

FWIW I lived through that era that I am refering to and have followed F1 in print since the late 60's and seen every race since 1978.

Intentionally missing the point? You're the one implying that the kind of dangerous maneuvers we saw from Schumacher was the norm back then and was considered okay when clearly the aftermath of Peterson's death rubbishes that implication.

So why lie in the first place? And what exactly are you accusing me of lying about anyway?

Edited by hotstickyslick, 03 August 2010 - 14:34.


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#1480 Buttoneer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:36

Debate!

And I have said/agreed it was a hard/harsh move, I am not distracting from that merely putting it into various context for comparison as will happen in a discussion forum.

And there is a partial debate on why it isn't acceptable these days, not the deaths of course, the hard racing.

If you want to by all means close the thread, there is no more to say on the actual incident itself, it has continued to all the peripherals as it was always going to from the very moment the name Schumacher was mentioned and if you want to point fingers then start elsewhere because I was very late to this thread, didn't even watch the race till Monday night.

But as ever I will abide by any Moderators request if so :cool:

I'm not saying you can't debate I'm saying your anachronistic arguments and rose tinted glances to the past are wide of the mark as any sort of justification for either calling today's drivers or their fans whiners.

#1481 goldenboy

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:37

I'm sure some ppl will think this is bullsh*t, but it's just a thought. I'm not defending what he did at all.

But is it possible, his reactions just aren't what they used to be? Even though he was watching him all the way? And is just too embarrased to admit it?

I know he's done it before years ago quite a few times, which would be the main argument against this.

Edited by goldenboy, 03 August 2010 - 14:38.


#1482 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:41

I don't switch on my TV hoping to see someone die in a fireball any more


just a quick comment on that one, look at this page

http://www.soku.com/...video/q_F1 2010

2nd row left is the Webber hitting Kova incident, check out the viewing numbers of 189,000 and compare them to the other video clip view numbers.

I'm pretty sure that this threads incident would have been on every News program ahead of the actual race report itself on every major chanel in the world.

Sex and race crashes/incidents sell, no way around that fact 30 years ago or today.


#1483 valachus

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:41

Hunt laid into Patrese because he was looking for a scapegoat. The witch hunt and kangaroo court that followed was one of the most shameful episodes in F1 history. Peterson's accident was started by Hunt himself.


Criminal investigation following a fatality on a racetrack is and has been compulsory in Italy since... well, ever; is this news for you? Interestingly, after the Senna trials - again in Italy - the FIA put forward a proposal that motorsports incidents are exempt altogether from criminal investigations, not the best idea if you ask me.

#1484 SimMaker

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:44

Cheapracer

You speak of people telling lies.

When the footage of Trips' accident clearly shows him turning into Clark. Looks to me like Trips did not look in his mirrors, AND goes to show what happens when drivers do not leave each other enough room. (Trips squeezed Clark, Clark had no where to go (Sound familiar??)

You really are not doing yourself any favours on this forum at the moment.

#1485 man

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:48

I'm sure some ppl will think this is bullsh*t, but it's just a thought. I'm not defending what he did at all.

But is it possible, his reactions just aren't what they used to be? Even though he was watching him all the way? And is just too embarrased to admit it?

I know he's done it before years ago quite a few times, which would be the main argument against this.


It is possible yes, but I dont think that is the case. He believes he is better now than in 2006, so does Ross Brawn and the evidence on track and off track suggests he hasn't lost any of his determination, stupidity, arrogance and will to win. His team circumstances have changed and the quality and treatment that his teammate gets has changed.


#1486 Rob

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:57

Criminal investigation following a fatality on a racetrack is and has been compulsory in Italy since... well, ever; is this news for you? Interestingly, after the Senna trials - again in Italy - the FIA put forward a proposal that motorsports incidents are exempt altogether from criminal investigations, not the best idea if you ask me.


I wasn't referring to the criminal investigations, but to the witch hunt the drivers took part in against Patrese. It was absolutely disgraceful.

#1487 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:03

I'm not saying you can't debate I'm saying your anachronistic arguments and rose tinted glances to the past are wide of the mark as any sort of justification for either calling today's drivers or their fans whiners.


Yes superlative comments are the only things that work, it's happening on both sides of the fence why am I the singular? Rose tinted Vs dark seething hatred borderlining on physcotic, which do you prefer?

The very first page had or still has disgusting words including the C word, the obligatory Adelaide 1994 is there blah blah blah - it never changes in a Schumacher thread and I do try to use facts and point to examples including history and other respected peoples works.

Not sure I called the fans whiners but I certainly am under the impression that many of todays drivers are whiners, it's in the dictionary, the meaning is clear and I can factually link it to recent incidents that are on record including Rubens pre incident laps. If you don't consider that whining along with say Alonso's "this is ridiculous" comment for example, please enlighten me to what it is?

What exactly would you call Vettle's childish immature attitude after the Hungary GP by the way? I've seen some angry and dissapointed drivers at race end but I have never seen that in 30 years of watching.

#1488 Watkins74

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:05

Had they made contact and had an aeroplane crash as the BBC commentators put it, it wouldn't be ridiculous to think he could've leapt the barriers and got down the escape tunnel.

:down:

I am surprised you didn't add that a tire could have flown up, struck a helicopter and the helicopter would crash in the grandstands killing hundreds.

Edited by Watkins74, 03 August 2010 - 15:10.


#1489 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:07

What exactly would you call Vettle's childish immature attitude after the Hungary GP by the way? I've seen some angry and dissapointed drivers at race end but I have never seen that in 30 years of watching.

compare it to how felipe got over brazil 2008 which was surely a bigger dissapointment

#1490 Cenotaph

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:08

speaking of tyres flying, were there any consequences to mercedes for the rosberg fiasco?

#1491 aditya-now

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:08

What exactly would you call Vettle's childish immature attitude after the Hungary GP by the way? I've seen some angry and dissapointed drivers at race end but I have never seen that in 30 years of watching.


I´ll give you that, cheapracer, Vettel´s behaviour was very unprofessional to say the least. Haven´t seen something like this in watching F1 for 40 years.
Nonetheless, your other ramblings are at times wide off the mark - and I pity it, as these statements do not win you many friends.

Cheers, Aditya


#1492 Cenotaph

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:10

what exactly did vettel do that was so out of line after the GP? I'd say Alonso's behaviour after Valencia was much worse.

#1493 goat0063

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:10

Hunt laid into Patrese because he was looking for a scapegoat. The witch hunt and kangaroo court that followed was one of the most shameful episodes in F1 history. Peterson's accident was started by Hunt himself.

Petersons accident was a result of the massively premature start. To blame either Hunt (who helped pull him from the fireball) or Patrese is a bit harsh. Starting the race when half the grid was still moving was asking for the resultant concertina. Note that Prof Watkins was initially held back by the Italian Police too. Apparently a quicker stabilisation of the fractures may have reduced the risk of the embolysm.

#1494 ensign14

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:11

How about the "lack of scoring" on Jim Clark and his stupid outside passing attempt that killed Von Trips and 15 spectators in the 1961 Italian GP of which the British press doesn't seem to mention very much of and every top driver list conveniently forgets but mentions every single Schumacher incident ...

You are REALLY taking the piss now. That accident was so much down to von Trips moving over on Clark's line that even the Italians couldn't pin any blame on the foreign driver and team. But I suppose your anglomisia has obscured your vision.

#1495 cheapracer

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:12

Cheapracer

You speak of people telling lies.

When the footage of Trips' accident clearly shows him turning into Clark. Looks to me like Trips did not look in his mirrors, AND goes to show what happens when drivers do not leave each other enough room. (Trips squeezed Clark, Clark had no where to go (Sound familiar??)

You really are not doing yourself any favours on this forum at the moment.


2 things,

Firstly you obviously don't know the track and what drivers do there, it is a very high speed part where they go onto the banking and there is but one line. The drivers brake a little and they all need to be clear of each other, Von Trips who was in front was always going to come over to the line onto the banking. Von Trips back wheel hit Clarks front wheel, he was in front. It is not a place to attempt a pass under any circumstance.

Secondly, it's not that relevant to my point, his fault or not why isn't Clark's incident ever mentioned anywhere but every single Schumacher incident is. Thats my point relevent to this thread, the reporting of Schumacher is biased. Read that Times scorecard again for all 3 drivers, if you can't see bias thats your parogative.

Well gee wizz, I guess your not coming to my birthday party then? oh boo hoo hoo :cry:

Edited by cheapracer, 03 August 2010 - 15:23.


#1496 goat0063

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:20

I wasn't referring to the criminal investigations, but to the witch hunt the drivers took part in against Patrese. It was absolutely disgraceful.

:up: Absolutely. It was like a kangaroo court.

#1497 ensign14

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:24

Firstly you obviously don't know the track and what drivers do there, it is a very high speed part where they go onto the banking and there is but one line. The drivers brake a little and they all need to be clear of each other, Von Trips who was in front was always going to come over to the line onto the banking. Von Trips back wheel hit Clarks front wheel, he was in front. It is not a place to attempt a pass under any circumstance.

Von Trips had gone off the racing line to hold the inside. Then went back to the outside. Where Clark already was. Clark was following a consistent line, von Trips, who had a record of spectacular crashes over the years (unlike Clark), wasn't.

Secondly, it's not that relevant to my point, why isn't Clark's incident ever mentioned anywhere but every single Schumacher incident is. Thats my point relevent to this thread, the reporting of Schumacher is biased. Read that Times scorecard again for all 3 drivers, if you can't see bias thats your parogative.

They never mention Farina even though he killed 2 drivers. Perhaps he was secretly British. But that's irrelevant. Clark's career is defined by his class at the wheel; ditto Fangio and any number of others. Schumacher's career is defined by hooliganism. Same as the Leeds United side of the 60s and 70s. Could play breathtaking football, but is only ever known as "dirty Leeds".

#1498 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:25

:down:

I am surprised you didn't add that a tire could have flown up, struck a helicopter and the helicopter would crash in the grandstands killing hundreds.


I was merely adding to the series of questionable MS Paintjobs in this thread. I'll make my sarcasm more obvious for you next time ;)

#1499 cardin

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:30

Yes superlative comments are the only things that work, it's happening on both sides of the fence why am I the singular? Rose tinted Vs dark seething hatred borderlining on physcotic, which do you prefer?

The very first page had or still has disgusting words including the C word, the obligatory Adelaide 1994 is there blah blah blah - it never changes in a Schumacher thread and I do try to use facts and point to examples including history and other respected peoples works.


Isn't there a remote possibility that all this 'hatred' has something to do with his history ? Don't you think that the fact that he not only won one of his championships in a manner that has nothing to do with fairness and sportsmanship but tried it again the same tactics against Villeneuve ? Isn't there also a remote possibility that the people you call whiners just like to see a sport in which a battle of skills is the ultimate decider of the outcomes ? That also thinks how you achieve your success is of paramount importance ? Just some thoughts that occured to me regarding MS and whiners.

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#1500 Tarzaan

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:41

Senna was quick right to his last days. M Schumacher is slow and being outclassed by his teammate. Senna's last dirty move was at Suzuka 1990, after which he was as clean as anybody else. M Schumacher is older and more experienced now than Senna was in 1990...he is much slower, merely making up the numbers in the midfield-tailend of the field. Senna learned from his mistakes as he got older. M Schumacher is as arrogant as ever and to make things worse, is being shown the way by half of the field.



lol

Senna was 7 years younger than Schumi when he died and has no spine/neck injuries before.

PS:

92: Senna 50-Berger49