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Barrichello/Schumacher Incident


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#1751 cheapracer

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 10:27

Dunno yet....


You may get the chance to see him in last place Frans, you would miss that?


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#1752 ivand911

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 10:28

You mean 3 posts.


So riddle me this people;

Exact situation EXCEPT that it's reversed - Rubens in front and he squeezed Schumacher into the wall, whats your reactions .......??

Seriously, lets hear your comments if it was that way ......

Cheat Schumacher gets his own back?

Rubens, awesome showing MS he won't be his bitch again?

Should have pushed him all the way into the wall?


I'm sure Brundle would be early to say "well Michal thats what it feels like when it's on the other shoe"

At least he will not get any penalty for that.


#1753 johnmhinds

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 10:49

You mean 3 posts.


So riddle me this people;

Exact situation EXCEPT that it's reversed - Rubens in front and he squeezed Schumacher into the wall, whats your reactions .......??

Seriously, lets hear your comments if it was that way ......

Cheat Schumacher gets his own back?

Rubens, awesome showing MS he won't be his bitch again?

Should have pushed him all the way into the wall?


I'm sure Brundle would be early to say "well Michal thats what it feels like when it's on the other shoe"


How incredibly cynical of you.
Sure everyone has it in for Schumacher, he did nothing wrong, this is just people putting him down because of his success. :rolleyes:

The difference between the 2 drivers is that Barrichello would never pull a move like that on any other driver, and Schumacher has a pretty bad record when it comes to squeezing drivers off the track.
You'd be hard pushed to find a single bad move from Barrichello in any of the races he has been in, which is incredible given he is now the most experienced F1 driver of all time.

Edited by johnmhinds, 06 August 2010 - 10:50.


#1754 as65p

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 10:58

Says it all really doesn't it. 3 pages of discussion for Massa, compared to 44 and growing number of pages for Schumacher. This thread will go over 50 pages before the next race, you can bet on that. If it was a virgin vs lotus then there would be 3 pages of discussion not 44.


Mainly because there wouldn't be a tenth of the people around defending Massa, or Virgin or Lotus to the last inch against all common sense.

#1755 Diablobb81

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 11:31

Mainly because there wouldn't be a tenth of the people around defending Massa, or Virgin or Lotus to the last inch against all common sense.


Well to defend something first there has to be an attack.

So you would be right if you said : almost no one would care about the move or who the driver involved is. Almost no one would attack Webber and there wouldn't be anything to defend. And the thread from 08 proves it.

P.S. : i mantain that what Schumi did was wrong and he should be penalised. I also asked for Webber's punishment multiple times. But the simple fact it there wouldn't have the same fallout if it wasn't for Schumi being involved.

Edited by Diablobb81, 06 August 2010 - 11:33.


#1756 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 11:36

You'd be hard pushed to find a single bad move from Barrichello in any of the races he has been in, which is incredible given he is now the most experienced F1 driver of all time.

can't find a replay but i remember rubens being nasty with lewis in brazil last year
anybody got a replay?

#1757 saudoso

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 11:49

can't find a replay but i remember rubens being nasty with lewis in brazil last year
anybody got a replay?

Only reference I found to them:
http://vids.myspace....deoid=100310579
Plain vanilla.

#1758 man

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:07

You mean 3 posts.


So riddle me this people;

Exact situation EXCEPT that it's reversed - Rubens in front and he squeezed Schumacher into the wall, whats your reactions .......??

Seriously, lets hear your comments if it was that way ......

Cheat Schumacher gets his own back?

Rubens, awesome showing MS he won't be his bitch again?

Should have pushed him all the way into the wall?


I'm sure Brundle would be early to say "well Michal thats what it feels like when it's on the other shoe"



Hehe...Now it is a case of imagine if other drivers were continuously as dangerous as M Schumacher!

Pie in the sky pal. :drunk:

Edited by man, 06 August 2010 - 12:08.


#1759 Boing 2

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:18

The exact same situation between Massa and Webber generated 3 pages on this forum. And it was '08 (which iirc was kind of important for Massa). So yeah.... And you look at the press of that tome to see the many calls for Webber's head... oh, wait.


Says it all really doesn't it. 3 pages of discussion for Massa, compared to 44 and growing number of pages for Schumacher. This thread will go over 50 pages before the next race, you can bet on that. If it was a virgin vs lotus then there would be 3 pages of discussion not 44.



You guys can't understand how a thread about a driver who hadn't won a race at the time or a team with less than a season under it's belt would attract less attention than a 7 times world champion in a works Mercedes?

you think that's some kind of conspiracy?

jesus guys, a little common sense here eh?

firstly this was a horiffic manouvre, it would have been critisised from anyone and if anyone knows of a worse manouvre then feel free to post pictures. The fact that this hasn't happened in over 40 pages though should tell you all you need to know.

secondly it was done by one of the most experienced and successful drivers on the grid who should know better

thirdly it was done by a guy who has spent his entire career with this kind of thing as a default setting, people are tired of it and it's starting to show.


Add this to the demented defense of anything involving MS and you can see why it's a long thread.

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#1760 Boing 2

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:26

You mean 3 posts.


So riddle me this people;

Exact situation EXCEPT that it's reversed - Rubens in front and he squeezed Schumacher into the wall, whats your reactions .......??

Seriously, lets hear your comments if it was that way ......

Cheat Schumacher gets his own back?

Rubens, awesome showing MS he won't be his bitch again?

Should have pushed him all the way into the wall?


I'm sure Brundle would be early to say "well Michal thats what it feels like when it's on the other shoe"



IF rubens did it i would be critical of him although it's never going to happen because he has some appreciation for ethics and sportsmanship.


However i will give you one thing, if it happens against MS i have a lot less natural sympathy. In the same way that i find it heartbreaking to see a little kid getting picked on and bullied but if i see one of those bullies getting a slap i feel very little.

Schumacher has been the dirtiest driver of his generation, in and out of the car, yet he almost always whines when he takes some of the same back, i have little sympathy for people like that.

But no, i wouldn't praise that move from anyone.

#1761 Boing 2

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:28

Only reference I found to them:
http://vids.myspace....deoid=100310579
Plain vanilla.


If that's what he's talking about then it's a non issue.


I say again, his defenders claim this is nothing unusual but have, for 44 pages now, failed to post a single image of a singe move that even comes close. Tells you everything you need to know.


#1762 Boing 2

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:34

Well to defend something first there has to be an attack.

So you would be right if you said : almost no one would care about the move or who the driver involved is. Almost no one would attack Webber and there wouldn't be anything to defend. And the thread from 08 proves it.

P.S. : i mantain that what Schumi did was wrong and he should be penalised. I also asked for Webber's punishment multiple times. But the simple fact it there wouldn't have the same fallout if it wasn't for Schumi being involved.


you're saying that you are somehow forced to defend Schumacher simply because he's being attacked? that the attack somehow automatically justifies the defence?

If that was true then any attack on any driver would generate the same response, it clearly doesn't.

An unfair or unjustifiable attack may stimulate people into defence but an entirely fair and justifiable one? nope, you are not 'forced' to defend him you choose to and you do so because like so many MS fanatics you cannot handle critisism like an adult.

My Favourite drivers so far have been Mansell, Alesi and Montoya, i loved watching them all but they all made mistakes and when they did i rolled my eyes and moved on, i didn't foam at the mouth with rage at the ensuing critisism.


#1763 Tifosi90

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:52

Mainly because there wouldn't be a tenth of the people around defending Massa, or Virgin or Lotus to the last inch against all common sense.


What common sense tells me is that people are making it a big deal out of nothing practicly. You need to ask yourself a couple of questions?

Did Rubens and Michael touch? Answer is NO

Did Rubens hit the wall? Answer is NO

Was there crash? Answer is NO

So what is all the fuss about? We have 45 pages of discussion about something which never happened. Funnily enough I don't see a 45 page discussion about the incident in the pitlane, how Kubica and Sutil crashed or how Rosberg tyre came off and hit a mechanic. I don't see any 10 grid penalties handed to Renault or Rosberg, yet their incident were FAR more dangerous.

It's called hypocrisy and there's 45 pages of it.

Edited by Tifosi90, 06 August 2010 - 12:54.


#1764 MPea3

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 12:52

You mean 3 posts.


So riddle me this people;

Exact situation EXCEPT that it's reversed - Rubens in front and he squeezed Schumacher into the wall, whats your reactions .......??

Seriously, lets hear your comments if it was that way ......

Cheat Schumacher gets his own back?

Rubens, awesome showing MS he won't be his bitch again?

Should have pushed him all the way into the wall?


I'm sure Brundle would be early to say "well Michal thats what it feels like when it's on the other shoe"


I'll assume yours is a rhetorical question and you don't really expect an answer, but it's so ridiculous that I'll do so anyway.

Of course I'd be just as critical of Rubens. While you have a few people on both sides of the argument who simply decide who is right and then decide what is right, for the most part the condemnation of Michael has been because of his actions. Those actions were horrible, and would be regardless of who did them. It's the actions which drew condemnation, it's the actions which drew the 10 place penalty, and it's the actions which should not be tolerated by any racing organization.

If you really think this is about Michael and not his actions on the track last weekend, go talk with Frans, because you're thinking like him, just on the other side.

#1765 ivandjj

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 13:05

If it was a virgin vs lotus then there would be 3 pages of discussion not 44.


If Di Grassi did that to Trulli, i believe that most of this forum would be screaming in outrage to ban Di Grassi for life or something similar. He would be banned for 6 months, but that would mean end to his F1 career in a way similar to Piquet jr.

Because it's Schumacher who still has many fans, many of them on this forum, there is big enough biased body which is defending him.

Hamilton was the most agressive driver of the post schoo era, but his agression is child play in relation to schoo.

The fact that schoo is both oldest and dirtiest diver speaks volumes. Usually your dirtiest driver is inexperienced and overenthusiastic. Is there comparable example in the history of racing? Farina possibly?

#1766 VresiBerba

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 13:12

What common sense tells me is that people are making it a big deal out of nothing practicly. You need to ask yourself a couple of questions?

Did Rubens and Michael touch? Answer is NO

Did Rubens hit the wall? Answer is NO

Was there crash? Answer is NO

So what is all the fuss about?

You might as well do the same thing for Jerez 1997. Did Shumi's deliberate crash into Villeneuve give him the championship? NO, it failed, so what is all the fuss about?

#1767 ivandjj

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 13:14

You mean 3 posts.


So riddle me this people;

Exact situation EXCEPT that it's reversed - Rubens in front and he squeezed Schumacher into the wall, whats your reactions .......??

Seriously, lets hear your comments if it was that way ......

Cheat Schumacher gets his own back?

Rubens, awesome showing MS he won't be his bitch again?

Should have pushed him all the way into the wall?


I'm sure Brundle would be early to say "well Michal thats what it feels like when it's on the other shoe"



You are absolutely right. And i would be delighted to see schoo getting some of his medicine back. But i am even more delighted that schoo got what he got this way, and especially from Rubens.

But all that doesn't change the fact that your riddle is insulting to RB, who never did anything similar. Thats why Rubens is respected by many different people, rather than by only his hardcore fans like schoo.

#1768 Jazza

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 13:18

What common sense tells me is that people are making it a big deal out of nothing practicly. You need to ask yourself a couple of questions?

Did Rubens and Michael touch? Answer is NO

Did Rubens hit the wall? Answer is NO

Was there crash? Answer is NO

So what is all the fuss about? We have 45 pages of discussion about something which never happened.
Funnily enough I don't see a 45 page discussion about the incident in the pitlane, how Kubica and Sutil crashed or how Rosberg tyre came off and hit a mechanic. I don't see any 10 grid penalties handed to Renault or Rosberg, yet their incident were FAR more dangerous.

It's called hypocrisy and there's 45 pages of it.


How about I get a gun and shot you in the head? Don't worry, I'll miss by the same amount that RB missed the wall. Since I missed, I haven't done anything wrong. So you better not make a fuss about it :rolleyes:

Just because nothing happened does not mean that nothing wrong happened. Otherwise everyone who ever tried to commit a crime and got caught could just say that since they got stopped before they committed the crime they haven't done anything wrong. That logic fails spectacularly.



#1769 endurancesportscar

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 13:23

Schumacher had the chance to put this to bed as soon as the race was over... it was an awful move and he should have had the grace as a champion to admit he was in the wrong... Not a Schumacher fan here...

#1770 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 13:24

What common sense tells me is that people are making it a big deal out of nothing practicly. You need to ask yourself a couple of questions?

Did Rubens and Michael touch? Answer is NO

Did Rubens hit the wall? Answer is NO

Was there crash? Answer is NO


Remember that BA Boeing 777 that crash landed at Heathrow the other year short of the runway?

Did it crash into the houses? NO

Did it crash into the perimeter fence? NO

Was anyone killed? NO

Does that mean it was fine and shouldn't have been investigated further?

Just cos everyone was OK doesn't mean it was OK.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 06 August 2010 - 13:25.


#1771 frp

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 13:46

Funnily enough I don't see a 45 page discussion about the incident in the pitlane, how Kubica and Sutil crashed or how Rosberg tyre came off and hit a mechanic. I don't see any 10 grid penalties handed to Renault or Rosberg, yet their incident were FAR more dangerous.

Those were accidents; Schumacher's actions were deliberate. Whilst on occasion it is appropriate to sanction those involved in accidents in order that they should be more careful, a punishment acts as a deterent to deliberate wrongdoing.

And there haven't been 45 pages of discussion about these incidents because there are no posters saying that bouncing wheels and crashing cars in the pitlane are to be applauded.
Well, not yet, anyway.  ;)

#1772 carbonfibre

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 13:47

Remember that BA Boeing 777 that crash landed at Heathrow the other year short of the runway?

Did it crash into the houses? NO

Did it crash into the perimeter fence? NO

Was anyone killed? NO

Does that mean it was fine and shouldn't have been investigated further?

Just cos everyone was OK doesn't mean it was OK.

Surely you can speculate on what could have happened but it's pretty hard to give a man a penalty because it "could" have happened. And an airline crash can't be compared with a F1 car crashing.

#1773 frp

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 13:49

Surely you can speculate on what could have happened but it's pretty hard to give a man a penalty because it "could" have happened.

No, you give a man a penalty for what he did. In this case, a rather lenient penalty.

#1774 Tifosi90

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 15:39

How about I get a gun and shot you in the head? Don't worry, I'll miss by the same amount that RB missed the wall. Since I missed, I haven't done anything wrong. So you better not make a fuss about it :rolleyes:

Just because nothing happened does not mean that nothing wrong happened. Otherwise everyone who ever tried to commit a crime and got caught could just say that since they got stopped before they committed the crime they haven't done anything wrong. That logic fails spectacularly.


Your logic fails spectacularly. You are trying to compare crime and trying to shoot people with F1 racing. Those two thing's are completely different and if you don't like F1 because it might be dangerous, then I suggest you go watch golf from now on.





#1775 Tifosi90

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 15:43

Those were accidents; Schumacher's actions were deliberate. Whilst on occasion it is appropriate to sanction those involved in accidents in order that they should be more careful, a punishment acts as a deterent to deliberate wrongdoing.

And there haven't been 45 pages of discussion about these incidents because there are no posters saying that bouncing wheels and crashing cars in the pitlane are to be applauded.
Well, not yet, anyway. ;)


Sure they were accidents but the reason why those accident happened is because they are trying to do a pitstop too fast and mistakes are then made. Same thing happened to Rosberg, safety is being compromised in order to have a pitstop 1 or 2 seconds shorter. Accidents like this can be easily avoided, but teams rather cut down safety in order to do a faster pitstop. So in effect you can say that these accidents are deliberate since they are rushing so fast that they don't even know whats happening around them.



#1776 Slartibartfast

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 15:53

Sure they were accidents but the reason why those accident happened is because they are trying to do a pitstop too fast and mistakes are then made. Same thing happened to Rosberg, safety is being compromised in order to have a pitstop 1 or 2 seconds shorter. Accidents like this can be easily avoided, but teams rather cut down safety in order to do a faster pitstop. So in effect you can say that these accidents are deliberate since they are rushing so fast that they don't even know whats happening around them.

Good thing refueling is banned, they might have been tempted to remove a filter from the rig to save time. I wonder what kind of penalty that would get?

Edited by Slartibartfast, 06 August 2010 - 15:56.


#1777 Henrik B

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 15:54

The reason Massa-Webber or Sutil-Kubica or Rosberg don't get 45 pages, Tifosi90, is because (to pick a example from the first page) no one tries to justify those events like this:

I say that Barrichello should be banned for what he did to Schumacher while overtaking.

FACTS

1)Schumacher had one legal move to cross and block, which he did. You can cross 1cm or 10 meters, its your say and its legal.

2)Barrichello saw that he had no room but he still tried to get past the pit lane entry line and grass and almost nearly took Schumacher out. Schumacher had to move to left to save himself.

3)Any other driver could have immediately moved to left and overtake Schumi making a clean and a very good overtaking move but Barrichello had some grudges against Schumi.

This is a sad day today. I say we all write a petition to FIA to heavily reprimand Barrichello and ban him for a couple of races so he does not do this again



#1778 aditya-now

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:02

Remember that BA Boeing 777 that crash landed at Heathrow the other year short of the runway?

Did it crash into the houses? NO

Did it crash into the perimeter fence? NO

Was anyone killed? NO

Does that mean it was fine and shouldn't have been investigated further?

Just cos everyone was OK doesn't mean it was OK.


Point well taken.

I had a look at Portugal 1988, the famous incident between Senna and Prost, where the Brazilian "squeezed" the Frenchmen "into the pitwall".
Well surprise, surprise, what was a big scandal back then, was nothing compared to nowadays' = Schumacher's standards.

Senna squeezed Alain, leaving him still more than half a metre between the pitwall and his car.
Schumi squeezed Rubens, leaving him less than 10 centimetres between the pitwall and his car. And putting Rubens completely on the rubble, whereas Alain had still plenty of clean road on which to drive.

It is fascinating how, with hindsight, Ayrton's manoveure looks actually tame and not dangerous at all. It was less than what Vettel pulled on Alonso at the start of Hockenheim this year.
You can see the "transgression" in the Top Gear edition with the Senna docu (end of July edition).

#1779 makef1better

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:03

Again, and ongoing, that remains bollocks. No more than an obvious attempt of sharing the blame as a last resort.


You don't see that Rubens supidly chose the side he chose? You don't see that Rubens could just lift his foot? You don't see that this section especially on the right side close to pitlane exit was a dangerous one to overtake?

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#1780 frp

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:04

Sure they were accidents but the reason why those accident happened is because they are trying to do a pitstop too fast and mistakes are then made. Same thing happened to Rosberg, safety is being compromised in order to have a pitstop 1 or 2 seconds shorter. Accidents like this can be easily avoided, but teams rather cut down safety in order to do a faster pitstop. So in effect you can say that these accidents are deliberate since they are rushing so fast that they don't even know whats happening around them.

You can say that the moon is made of cheese.

#1781 frp

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:15

You don't see that Rubens supidly chose the side he chose? You don't see that Rubens could just lift his foot? You don't see that this section especially on the right side close to pitlane exit was a dangerous one to overtake?

As can clearly be seen in the footage, Michael watched his mirrors to see which way Rubens went, and then chose to block reactively. If Rubens had gone left then Michael would have put him onto the grass. Then you would be now saying that Rubens was stupid to go to the outside, rather than taking the more conventional inside line to overtake. If he'd had time to consider it beforehand, Rubens (or any other driver) would've concluded that to go outside would leave him vulnerable to being squeezed onto the grass, as Massa had been in Montreal, and would probably not have countenanced the idea that even Michael would squeeze him against the wall and into the pitlane.

#1782 as65p

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:21

Good thing refueling is banned, they might have been tempted to remove a filter from the rig to save time. I wonder what kind of penalty that would get?


:lol: :up:

As long as it's done junior employees...

#1783 VresiBerba

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:21

Your logic fails spectacularly.

Actually it's your logic that fails. According to you, if nothing happened, no-one should be penalised. It really doesn't work like that, as the shooting analogy proves. Nothing happened when Shumi parked his car in Rascasse either, so why was Shumi penalised, you might ask. Why was Lewis and Vettel penalised in China, nothing happened there either. Why wasn't Webber or Vettel penalised in Turkey, when something did happen.

I tell you what though, something did actually happen, Shumi went over the accustomed letter called REGULATIONS! That's what happened. That's why Shumi was penalised.

#1784 Sakae

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:23

Those were accidents; Schumacher's actions were deliberate. Whilst on occasion it is appropriate to sanction those involved in accidents in order that they should be more careful, a punishment acts as a deterent to deliberate wrongdoing.

And there haven't been 45 pages of discussion about these incidents because there are no posters saying that bouncing wheels and crashing cars in the pitlane are to be applauded.
Well, not yet, anyway.;)

I also suspect there is crowd of willing fans of F1, who would like to fry Michael in a kettle of hot oil, you may add, in good old Mongolian fashion.

Now, it was not, I shall repeat NOT Michael, who crashed car in pitlane, nor bounced any wheels, so, why bring it up, unless we want to increase oil temperature in that kettle? My recollection is, that it was kamikaze style of RB, who suffered from momentary infuriation and subsequent brain fade, when he had hit Schumacher's, once Michael began to open gap on him. Completely uncalled for and premeditated retaliatory move.

I think RB should receive a black flag for that.

Edited by Sakae, 06 August 2010 - 16:29.


#1785 VresiBerba

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:31

The reason Massa-Webber or Sutil-Kubica or Rosberg don't get 45 pages, Tifosi90, is because (to pick a example from the first page) no one tries to justify those events like this:

You don't have to go that far back, this was posted just minutes ago:

My recollection is, that it was kamikaze style of RB, who suffered from momentary infuriation and subsequent brain fade, when he had hit Schumacher's, once Michael began to open gap on him. Completely uncalled for and premeditated retaliatory move.

I think RB should receive a black flag for that.

No-bloody-wonder why this thread grows like it does.

#1786 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:36

Point well taken.

I had a look at Portugal 1988, the famous incident between Senna and Prost, where the Brazilian "squeezed" the Frenchmen "into the pitwall".
Well surprise, surprise, what was a big scandal back then, was nothing compared to nowadays' = Schumacher's standards.

Senna squeezed Alain, leaving him still more than half a metre between the pitwall and his car.
Schumi squeezed Rubens, leaving him less than 10 centimetres between the pitwall and his car. And putting Rubens completely on the rubble, whereas Alain had still plenty of clean road on which to drive.

It is fascinating how, with hindsight, Ayrton's manoveure looks actually tame and not dangerous at all. It was less than what Vettel pulled on Alonso at the start of Hockenheim this year.
You can see the "transgression" in the Top Gear edition with the Senna docu (end of July edition).


Also look how close Senna and Mansell got at Barcalona 91. That was close fair racing. Its not the proximity to the wall or the cars, it's the lack of graciousness in doing so on MS' part. Senna and Mansell had huge fairness and competetiveness with each other but once Senna realised Mansell had the line he didn't fight too much anymore. Schumacher doesn't know where this line is and probably never will until he or someone else has a huge accident.

#1787 frp

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:53

Now, it was not, I shall repeat NOT Michael, who crashed car in pitlane, nor bounced any wheels, so, why bring it up, unless we want to increase oil temperature in that kettle?

I didn't. Another poster cited these incidents as a reason for Michael's driving to be excused.

My recollection is, that it was kamikaze style of RB, who suffered from momentary infuriation and subsequent brain fade, when he had hit Schumacher's, once Michael began to open gap on him. Completely uncalled for and premeditated retaliatory move.

I think RB should receive a black flag for that.

It's a point of view, I suppose. Do you have any thoughts on what actually happened on track on Sunday? There are video clips on the internet.

Edited by frp, 06 August 2010 - 16:53.


#1788 Sakae

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 16:55

I didn't. Another poster cited these incidents as a reason for Michael's driving to be excused.


It's a point of view, I suppose. Do you have any thoughts on what actually happened on track on Sunday? There are video clips on the internet.

Front view video documents Williams came into contact with Schumacher's car. Didn't have to.

#1789 frp

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 18:05

Front view video documents Williams came into contact with Schumacher's car. Didn't have to.

No. Nowhere near. You're watching a different clip.

Rubens moved left to avoid the grass and gulley which, at that speed, would probably have lauched him into the debris fence and through the marshals. Fortunately, Michael moved left to accomodate.

Edited by frp, 06 August 2010 - 18:09.


#1790 Tifosi90

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 18:10

Actually it's your logic that fails. According to you, if nothing happened, no-one should be penalised. It really doesn't work like that, as the shooting analogy proves. Nothing happened when Shumi parked his car in Rascasse either, so why was Shumi penalised, you might ask. Why was Lewis and Vettel penalised in China, nothing happened there either. Why wasn't Webber or Vettel penalised in Turkey, when something did happen.

I tell you what though, something did actually happen, Shumi went over the accustomed letter called REGULATIONS! That's what happened. That's why Shumi was penalised.


Then why wasn't Vettel given a 10 gird penalty for defending the same as Michael at the start in Silverstone and Germany? What Vettel did was even worse since if an accident happens there, then whole grid could have collided like it did in Spa 1998. Didn't Vettel break the EXACT same REGULATIONS that Michael did in Hungary?

As I said hypocrisy.

#1791 VresiBerba

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 18:22

Then why wasn't Vettel given a 10 gird penalty for defending the same as Michael at the start in Silverstone and Germany?

Because A) it was obviously different and B) human beings are not a tool of measurement; everything relying upon human input will inherently turn out different, every time.


As I said hypocrisy.

And you're doing the same thing, accuse other drivers doing the same or similar thing, but defending Shumi for those exact same things.

Hypocrite :rolleyes:

#1792 makef1better

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 19:03

As can clearly be seen in the footage, Michael watched his mirrors to see which way Rubens went, and then chose to block reactively. If Rubens had gone left then Michael would have put him onto the grass. Then you would be now saying that Rubens was stupid to go to the outside, rather than taking the more conventional inside line to overtake. If he'd had time to consider it beforehand, Rubens (or any other driver) would've concluded that to go outside would leave him vulnerable to being squeezed onto the grass, as Massa had been in Montreal, and would probably not have countenanced the idea that even Michael would squeeze him against the wall and into the pitlane.

Very likely that Schumacher would have „closed the door“ also on the left side. My point is, that there was a much higher danger especially regarding the pit exit, to choose this side to overtake.

Rubens can't be so stupid not to know that Schumacher is going further his line to the right. Rubens must have known it before that he will have to cross the white line direction to the wall.

In my pov the white line just before and after the pit exit should not be allowed to cross from both sides.

#1793 Bloggsworth

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 22:21

Your logic fails spectacularly. You are trying to compare crime and trying to shoot people with F1 racing. Those two thing's are completely different and if you don't like F1 because it might be dangerous, then I suggest you go watch golf from now on.


No they're not - Both actions would have been deliberate, and that's what makes them different to mere accidents or errors of judgement, and if you can't see the difference, disqualify yourself from jury service.

#1794 baddog

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 23:38

No they're not - Both actions would have been deliberate, and that's what makes them different to mere accidents or errors of judgement, and if you can't see the difference, disqualify yourself from jury service.

You would also be out, based on your subjection to previous feelings about the subjects in the case ;) as would I, being someone known well to think Rubens is a horrible whining little teletubby.

Also if you just ignore what Rubens himself said about the incident because it doesnt suit then you dont look so good either. To clarify, Rubens said he would usually have backed out of the move but 'not today'. In court that would easily be used to demonstrate that he participated willingly, even after realising it was dangerous. Dont get me wrong, I see NO obligation on Rubens to back out of it, Im not one of those.. but his choice does make too much post-facto whining from him a little fake frankly.

#1795 black magic

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 00:14

schumacher was penalised unlike many of the other equally dangerous stunts esp the vettel/hamilton nonesense in the pitlane

the only questionable act here based on numerous previous fia interpretations or failure to act was that ms pushed rubens v close to the wall.

he has been forced to take his punishment and we have the "unique" situation of a f1 driver refusing to accpet the blame for an incident - wow a first.


unlike vettel who claimed total innocence, or alonso knowledge of being let through. these guys find it difficult to accept any blame for anything. he has verbally apologised regardless of what he thinks.

you cant escape that with michael is there is a certain righteous idignation that others escape. hamilton I expect will come to know what its like as he is another who tends to polarise opinions

#1796 as65p

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 07:26

schumacher was penalised unlike many of the other equally dangerous stunts esp the vettel/hamilton nonesense in the pitlane


I would argue that it wasn't equal to anything else we've seen for a looong time, if ever. Similar, comparable: yes, but once again MS took it a step further and definitely crossed the line. In his first career he used to do that for good (as in many memorable preformances) and bad. Nowadays it's only the latter, which doesn't make it any worse, technically, just more unecessary and pointless.

But obviously no Schumacher fan would ever agree that what we saw last sunday was that much worse than other stunts, instead every effort is made to play it down to normal, if not acceptable levels.

#1797 sir jackie walker

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 08:09

So, still going, huh?

Have a nice thread!

#1798 britishtrident

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 09:48

Think about this one guys: In his his election manifesto Jean Todt promised to appoint an FIA F1 commissioner, almost a year on the post hasn't yet been created I and others believed it was being delayed to leave it open for Michael Schumacher as a reward for supporting Todt's campaign, somehow post Hungaroring 2010 I suspect if an ex-driver gets the job it won't be Michael. :rotfl:



#1799 Boing 2

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 10:44

Think about this one guys: In his his election manifesto Jean Todt promised to appoint an FIA F1 commissioner, almost a year on the post hasn't yet been created I and others believed it was being delayed to leave it open for Michael Schumacher as a reward for supporting Todt's campaign, somehow post Hungaroring 2010 I suspect if an ex-driver gets the job it won't be Michael. :rotfl:



don't know about that, he used to lecture his peers on safety when head of the GPDA and he was ramming opponents off the track back then. :well:

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#1800 makef1better

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 12:11

Think about this one guys: In his his election manifesto Jean Todt promised to appoint an FIA F1 commissioner, almost a year on the post hasn't yet been created I and others believed it was being delayed to leave it open for Michael Schumacher as a reward for supporting Todt's campaign, somehow post Hungaroring 2010 I suspect if an ex-driver gets the job it won't be Michael. :rotfl:


Not so sure about this one; Michael would be perfect for this job. He knows all the tricks :-)