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Barrichello/Schumacher Incident


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#351 Anssi

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:34

Well, they gave him a penalty. He did push another driver out of the track and a bit late so I agree that it was dangerous even though I said a reprimand would be enough. I'm fine with the penalty and now we can hopefully move on to other things, like to celebrating Petrov's great performance.

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#352 peroa

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:35

If they will enforce the same rules from now on then the penalty is ok (but i doubt it). The next driver who will do this, if he's not Schumi, will not be even be investigated.;)


Apart from Vettel at the starts nobody really did it in such an extreme way.

#353 tifosi

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:35

Should Barrichello assume that he will be squeezed?


Um, actually yes, he should have known that.

#354 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:36

I agree with Alex Wurz view of it

#355 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:36

He's been let off pretty leniently, it remains to be seen whether schumey will heed the lesson.


:rotfl: Schumacher learn a lesson? You have more chance of the Devil repenting all his sins. :mad:


#356 David M. Kane

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:36

Good on you Rubens!

#357 Slowinfastout

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:37

where did i say he uses his mirrors? i said the mirrors dont offer much visibility. its a very narrow field of view he might have been trying to figure out where rubens was.

you said you know more about f1 than me without knowing who i am.

i can gladly meet you in the pitlane at any race you choose and you can tell me all about f1 over a drink :wave:


So you didn't see him use his mirrors?

I'm confident I know more about racing than you, fair racing that is.

I don't give a flying feck if you're standing in the pitlane drinking all the time.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 01 August 2010 - 15:37.


#358 JPW

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:37

10 place grid penalty? Oh well not the end of the world, Rubens doing his usual whiner routine that we see at least once a year.

Nothing happened, he left enough room as no accident happening is proving. A lot ado about nothing me thinks, next.

#359 Diablobb81

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:37

Apart from Vettel at the starts nobody really did it in such an extreme way.


Just look at Webber vs. Massa in 08.


Identical situation. I need to find a thread on this BB about that move.

And you can argue that situations were drivers did touch were more dangerous.

Edited by Diablobb81, 01 August 2010 - 15:39.


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#360 se7en_24

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:37

Um, actually yes, he should have known that.

Hopefully in future Schumacher will know that he'll get a penalty if he behaves like that again.

#361 EVO2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:37

Alex pulled no punches but really, is a 10 place grid drop enough ?

I would also have given MS a three race ban, suspended for the remainder of the season.

That's the only penalty that would have any chance of keeping him in line

Edited by EVO2, 01 August 2010 - 15:39.


#362 Tolyngee

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:37

10 place grid drop confirmed. Not enough.


Everyone complains there's no passing in F1.

Then we get a pass for position on the track, and the passe is given a penalty for it.

Either two things will come of this:

1) The floodgates will now open, as any defense of your position will incur a penalty.

2) (which I find most likely) Moves to defend your position will now be more clear, with no room left for the other driver, meaning either the passer backs off the attempt, or they crash.


RB knew what MS was going to do, and knew what MS was doing when he did it.

So, more high speed crashes are now more likely, as people like MS today and Webber on Massa at Japan will just move all the way over to the wall leaving no space for the passer.

Both Massa and RB had all the space on the left to go to, and the same will be the case in the future when there's a big accident because a passer decides to put himself into the wall...

#363 se7en_24

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:37

10 place grid penalty? Oh well not the end of the world, Rubens doing his usual whiner routine that we see at least once a year.

Nothing happened, he left enough room as no accident happening is proving. A lot ado about nothing me thinks, next.

What if a car had been coming out of the pitlane? 'Nothing happened' is not an excuse for anything.

#364 Tifosi90

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:38

Hypocrisy at it's best. Everyone is now bashing Schumi for his driving, but noone complained when Vettel did the exact same thing in Germany and Silverstone at the start. Noone complained when Mark did the same to Massa in 2008 in Fuji. But since Schumi did it, he should be shot :rolleyes:

As I said Hypocrisy at it's best

#365 se7en_24

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:39

Hypocrisy at it's best. Everyone is now bashing Schumi for his driving, but noone complained when Vettel did the exact same thing in Germany and Silverstone at the start. Noone complained when Mark did the same to Massa in 2008 in Fuji. But since Schumi did it, he should be shot :rolleyes:

As I said Hypocrisy at it's best

A lot of people complained about that, what planet are you on? There is even a thread about the starts here.

Edited by se7en_24, 01 August 2010 - 15:39.


#366 ffiloseta

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:39

10 place grid penalty for MS. This FIA guys sure let themselves be steered by crybabies on fori.

Anyway, bad news for Vettel, as now he won't be able to do his chop without somebody springing in and crying for penalties. On the other hand, mayb this is what was needed to incresase takeover maneuvres: scaring drivers with penalties so they won't fight for position :lol:

Damn this "sport"...

#367 Slowinfastout

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:39

Just look at Webber vs. Massa in 08.


Identical situation. I need to find a thread on this BB about that move.

And you can argue that situations were drivers did touch was more dangerous.


That incident was often discussed and it was dirty as well.

#368 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:39

I don't understand you. This accident in the video was clearly the hinder cars fault. He has to see he has not enough room.

Barichello also should see that:

Posted Image

(in this point Barichello was behind Schumi)


You know, if you're going to post 'evidence' it's generally better if it supports your argument instead of destroying it :rotfl:

you show an image with almost 2 car widths of a gap and claim there was no gap......




You may have to go back to troll school and resit the year my boy :wave:


#369 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:40

That incident was often discussed and it was dirty as well.

yes, but it was discussed to give massa a penalty for dangerously passing through the pit exit and outside the real track..
;)

#370 Disgrace

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:40

Barichello leave the track (white line) when he overtakes Schumi. The brazilian should be penalize for this...


Oh. My. God.

#371 Tarzaan

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:40

10 place penalty in spa



ridiculous

Hamilton & Webbo gets nothing for their moves, but Schumi penalized both this & both uvertaking under green flag, and both RBR & Ferrari use flexi front wings...

#372 Tarzaan

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:41

Oh. My. God.



Call me Tarzaan.

#373 Rurouni

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:41

What if a car had been coming out of the pitlane? 'Nothing happened' is not an excuse for anything.


when RB being pushed outside of the white line, he should back off instead of pushing.

#374 Radoye

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:41

10 place grid drop confirmed. Not enough.

:up: He got off very lightly.

#375 rolf123

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:41

High cockpit sides anyone?

Of course Schumi was looking towards Barichello. That doesn't mean he had a full and complete positional understanding of all around him.

Has the problem of ever increasing high cockpit sides restricting a driver's vision suddenly disappeared because this is Schumi?

So funny to see the anti-Schumi's erupt in their whining fury yet again.


#376 Ashitank

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:41

Grid drop is not enough , race ban or as Wurz said his license should have been revoked , amazing he still gets away and goes on and bitches to media

#377 arknor

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:42

High cockpit sides anyone?

Of course Schumi was looking towards Barichello. That doesn't mean he had a full and complete positional understanding of all around him.

Has the problem of ever increasing high cockpit sides restricting a driver's vision suddenly disappeared because this is Schumi?

So funny to see the anti-Schumi's erupt in their whining fury yet again.

ofcourse it has and schumacher has awesome mirrors

#378 barteks

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:42

10 place grid penalty :)

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/85799

#379 Slowinfastout

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:42

yes, but it was discussed to give massa a penalty for dangerously passing through the pit exit and outside the real track..
;)


Yeah, like the OP here.. there's always people like that.

edit: just noticed they removed the post... can't fix the guy's head though, so the real problem remains.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 01 August 2010 - 15:44.


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#380 Diablobb81

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:42

So here is the thread for those that are curious

http://forums.autosp...hl=webber massa

Let's see if there is any hypocrisy or not.

#381 bond

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:43

High cockpit sides anyone?

Of course Schumi was looking towards Barichello. That doesn't mean he had a full and complete positional understanding of all around him.

Has the problem of ever increasing high cockpit sides restricting a driver's vision suddenly disappeared because this is Schumi?

So funny to see the anti-Schumi's erupt in their whining fury yet again.


Stop defending him, he knew where he was and he was doing... :cool:

#382 se7en_24

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:43

when RB being pushed outside of the white line, he should back off instead of pushing.

You obviously need to apply for a job as an FIA steward, as they completely disagree with your opinion.

#383 Tifosi90

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:44

A lot of people complained about that, what planet are you on? There is even a thread about the starts here.


Hardly anyone complained about those moves. Also did Vettel & Webber get 10 grid penalty when they pulled the same moves?

#384 BRK

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:45

you can't defend schuey so your trying to attack others instead, why bring that up if schuey was in the right.


Because others have already pointed out earlier in the thread that he did nothing illegal,I see no point in saying the same thing again because it's pointless trying to reason with the haters. So basically it's okay to touch on track or if the guy being squeezed actually has an accident,but not at all okay to leave them enough room to overtake (which Barrichello did,today). Neat. Ties in with what F1 is turning into.

#385 Disgrace

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:46

Posted Image


Posted Image


These are the best two screenshots. Rubens was committed to the inside already, at which point it is Schumacher obligation to give him the room and allow for fair racing.

As you can see, he kept going in the knowledge he was committed to the move (had an overlap), as proven by the fact that he is looking in the mirrors at all times. From the first picture to the second, he has moved an entire car-length towards Rubens while Rubens was already there. Madness.

Unacceptable and unbelievably dangerous. If Rubens had hit the wall, Schumacher may well have got a race ban, not to mention Rubens would have speared into Michael and they would have both slid down into the turn one runoff, Rubens probably upside-down. To say that "nothing happened, nobody died" is like not fixing an evident problem with a plane that could cost lives.

Alex Wurz absolutely slating Schumacher.

EDIT: Schumi dropped 10 places for next race.


Wurz was the GPDA head for a while and an experienced driver. Anybody who disagrees with such in-depth knowledge and experience is in denial. The FIA have made a great statement and set the precedent. This is the safest way to go about it.

Edited by Disgrace, 01 August 2010 - 15:48.


#386 Barri

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:46

What caught my attention was that Schumacher saw Barrichello next to him, and still he kept pushing Rubens against the wall. Can you imagine if another car was coming out of the pits?
I would be surprised if he doesn't get a penalty. Actually no, I wouldn't be surprised.

Edited by Barri, 01 August 2010 - 15:46.


#387 Boing 2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:46

High cockpit sides anyone?

Of course Schumi was looking towards Barichello. That doesn't mean he had a full and complete positional understanding of all around him.

Has the problem of ever increasing high cockpit sides restricting a driver's vision suddenly disappeared because this is Schumi?

So funny to see the anti-Schumi's erupt in their whining fury yet again.


Posted Image

michaels right wheels were right on the white line, he had Barrichello pushed right off the circuit. If he didn't spot that he doesn't deserve a superlicense.


so funny to see the fanatics continue to defend the indefensible :lol:

#388 EVO2

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:46

We've had :

Eddie Jordan
Martin Brundle
Alex Wurtz
DC
Jenson Button
The four Stewards
AND over 80% of the voters on James Allen's site

All state unreservedly that MS was right out of order and Alex Wurtz, former Steward and GPDA Chairman was particularly scathing.

Can't the brainwashed Schumacher fans on this forum just for once accept that your man drove dangerously this afternoon ?

Does he have to kill someone before you will accept he ever does anything wrong ?

#389 MrGBrown

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:46

10 Places is quite a deal for MSC, he must get p10+ in spa qualifying as to not be dropped in with the new teams in the race.
So really its race over for SPA for him anyway. He's got a month now as well to think about this.

#390 Tarzaan

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:46

This grid penalty is ridiculous.

Hamilton & Webbo gets nothing for their moves, but Schumi penalized both this & both uvertaking under green flag, and both RBR & Ferrari use flexi front wings...

#391 rad787

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:47

Funny reason. Illegitimately impeded Car 9 when it was overtaking. What was Schumi to do? Let go of Rubens that easy. Geesh. Moves like this were not even investigated in the past. Hypocrites.

#392 wj_gibson

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:47

I thought that was the most disgraceful thing I've seen on track for many, many years. That Rubens cleared the pit wall by around 10cm. is chance, just as I felt it was pure chance that Schumacher only grazed Hakkinen's front wing at Spa in 2000 (as opposed to Hakkinen flying into the trees). In neither case do I think that Schuamcher was so firmly in control of the situation as to have skilfully avoided a truly appalling accident, I think we were just very lucky on both occasions.

Both incidents occurred at a speed whereby the ensuing accident would, in my opnion, have likely proved fatal, either to the driver or to someone else positioned nearby.

Edited by wj_gibson, 01 August 2010 - 15:48.


#393 lambylamby

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:48

We've had :

Eddie Jordan
Martin Brundle
Alex Wurtz
DC
Jenson Button
The four Stewards
AND over 80% of the voters on James Allen's site

All state unreservedly that MS was right out of order and Alex Wurtz, former Steward and GPDA Chairman was particularly scathing.

Can't the brainwashed Schumacher fans on this forum just for once accept that your man drove dangerously this afternoon ?

Does he have to kill someone before you will accept he ever does anything wrong ?


good post. :up:

#394 lithium

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:49

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by lithium, 01 August 2010 - 15:50.


#395 ensign14

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:49

Either two things will come of this:

1) The floodgates will now open, as any defense of your position will incur a penalty.

2) (which I find most likely) Moves to defend your position will now be more clear, with no room left for the other driver, meaning either the passer backs off the attempt, or they crash.

Except we now know (2) will result in a penalty.

#396 se7en_24

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:50

Hardly anyone complained about those moves. Also did Vettel & Webber get 10 grid penalty when they pulled the same moves?

I'd like to see starts like Vettel's recent ones punished. Maybe you could start a seperate thread/poll about that - we are talking about today's incident here.

#397 Disgrace

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:50

michaels right wheels were right on the white line, he had Barrichello pushed right off the circuit. If he didn't spot that he doesn't deserve a superlicense.


This. Ignorance is not an excuse in an F1 race, for ignorance is a grave crime itself.

#398 Slowinfastout

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:51

Funny reason. Illegitimately impeded Car 9 when it was overtaking. What was Schumi to do? Let go of Rubens that easy. Geesh. Moves like this were not even investigated in the past. Hypocrites.


Not all squeezes are the same, obviously... and yes some past incidents should have been investigated and penalized...

Is that being hypocritical?

#399 Barri

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:51

The penalty has been delivered!! 10-grid spots on SPA.!!! hahahaha

Edited by Barri, 01 August 2010 - 15:51.


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#400 bauss

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 15:51

grid penalty....well deserved...