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Opel Commodores used in rallying


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#1 gypseywilson

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 06:35

Has anyone out there any information at all about specifications of these cars that were used in rallying in particular the "Commodore B" which was first built in 1972. Because of the rules of historic rallying in the UK I can't build it to the info from homologation papers as the organisers want only period rally modifications not racing ones. I've managed to find out that Walter Rohrl did the Monte with one and a couple of cars came to do the RAC in 1973 but they were Gp 1 cars. What I'd really like would be some information from France or Germany about more modified cars which were used in the 70's. Here's hoping...........

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#2 arttidesco

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 07:38

Has anyone out there any information at all about specifications of these cars that were used in rallying in particular the "Commodore B" which was first built in 1972. Because of the rules of historic rallying in the UK I can't build it to the info from homologation papers as the organisers want only period rally modifications not racing ones. I've managed to find out that Walter Rohrl did the Monte with one and a couple of cars came to do the RAC in 1973 but they were Gp 1 cars. What I'd really like would be some information from France or Germany about more modified cars which were used in the 70's. Here's hoping...........


I'd try www.irmscher.de they prepared Walters car, and their website is available in English which means you can probably call or e-mail them in English :-)

If you or they have any trouble getting through to each other in English drop me a PM with an e-mail address or telephone number and I might be able to help you out with the German :-)

Notice that Irmscher claim a GP4 victory on the '73 Monte with the Commodore but Wiki says he retired, in these cases Wiki is usually wrong can anyone confirm what really happened ?

#3 kabouter

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 11:23

I'd try www.irmscher.de they prepared Walters car, and their website is available in English which means you can probably call or e-mail them in English :-)

If you or they have any trouble getting through to each other in English drop me a PM with an e-mail address or telephone number and I might be able to help you out with the German :-)

Notice that Irmscher claim a GP4 victory on the '73 Monte with the Commodore but Wiki says he retired, in these cases Wiki is usually wrong can anyone confirm what really happened ?

Looks like the Wikipedia result is 'based on' the result on my site. Whatever Irmscher claims, a Group 4 win in 1973 it was certainly not. That honour went to the overall winners Jean-Claude Andruet and 'Biche' with an Alpine-Renault. Röhrl and what I think is a Group 2 Commodore retired on the Parcours Complémentaire. He was classified in 45th overall. The RallyBase result is based on results published in period magazines.
http://www.rallybase...amp;rallyid=376

Edit: I just had an idea why Irmscher would claim a victory on their website. No Group 2 cars over 2000cc finished the rally, so if there was a Group 2 over 2000cc class, this would make Röhrl class winner, even though he retired.

Edited by kabouter, 03 August 2010 - 11:39.


#4 arttidesco

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 12:04

Thanks for the clarrification Kabouter sounds like Rohrl came close but would he have been given a cigar ?

#5 Fred Gallagher

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 14:25

I just had an idea why Irmscher would claim a victory on their website. No Group 2 cars over 2000cc finished the rally, so if there was a Group 2 over 2000cc class, this would make Röhrl class winner, even though he retired.


All 51 cars which finished the the "Common Leg" were classified as finishers. So, even though Rohrl and Jochen Berger (who, incidentally, died last week) stopped on the final mountain loop they were classified 45th overall and therefore eligible for any class or other awards going.

Fred

#6 arttidesco

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:13

All 51 cars which finished the the "Common Leg" were classified as finishers. So, even though Rohrl and Jochen Berger (who, incidentally, died last week) stopped on the final mountain loop they were classified 45th overall and therefore eligible for any class or other awards going.

Fred


Thanks for your insight on the Monte Carlo final classification Fred.

Sorry to here the sad news about Jochen Berger, may he rest in peace.

#7 RS2000

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 15:57

This thread on the French "Forum Auto" (which currently runs to 5789 pages!) has some regular Opel (including Commodore) experts/fanatics on it but you would probably have to ask in French:
http://www.forum-aut...sujet378102.htm
It may also be a problem conveying the "Loveridge rules" to anyone not experienced in BHRC politics! Since I assume you're looking at Cat 2, there's not much scope for debate about "used in rallying in period" - but there is in Cat 3, where it seems "used in rallying in period" has been added to the previous "as homologated" rule this year without the statutory MSA consultation period (or formal approval?).

#8 gypseywilson

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 17:35

Thanks for all that gents. It seems to depend on who you talk to as to the interpretation of the rules, there are those that say if you run something unusual you can do more than if you run a car that everyone knows inside out. for example there are non fords out there running the dogs b*&&^%$s atlas axle because a standard axle is "unobtainable".Who, at the end of the day says what can and can't be used? What's the point of me searching round the world for a commodore axle with a LSD and the correct ratio (and paying an absolute fortune for it if I can find one) when i can just fit a sailsbury/jag for a lot less!!!! PS Fred, say hello to "H" for me, I used to work with her at Prodrive. Cheers Steve Wilson.

#9 RS2000

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 18:39

Who, at the end of the day says what can and can't be used?


One man - who is both the BHRC scrutineer and a member (the only one with any real rally knowledge?) of the relevant MSC Historic committee. Therein lies the problem. It is one thing to get it wrong for lack of knowledge but it is quite another to fail to take heed of written advice on exactly what is wrong with references to Appendix J etc......

#10 RS2000

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 18:55

for example there are non fords out there running the dogs b*&&^%$s atlas axle because a standard axle is "unobtainable".


Since there are not that many non-Fords out there (BHRC), examples would be useful. There are also several non-Ford owners refusing to compete because of the restrictions placed on axles/gearboxes rather than any freedoms.
All credit to you for considering a non-2 litre car though - the championship needs to reflect the smaller or larger engined cars more widely used in the day and get away from C5/D5 in unrepresentatively large numbers.