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Mark Webber (merged)


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#6401 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:29

IMO Marks WDC campaign hinges on the next few races. If he goes back to his old ways of average qualis, losing multiple places at the start then struggling to overtake Force Indias for 20 laps then he may as well forget about it.

He can be utterly peerless some weekends like Monaco. But then its back to the normal good but not good enough. It wasnt good enough in 2010 and its not going to be good enough in 2012. He is in great form though and i hope he continues to step it up.

MW 2012 WDC then to Ferrari.

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#6402 DILLIGAF

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 09:48

I think Mark's message has finally gotten across to all. So we should never get a situation like Hungary 2010 agian. Or even Brazil 2011. To hell with team work. Let the drivers suffer it out because enough of this helping Webber stuff only to face his bite in the butt attitude when he is able to lend a helping hand.

I find Webber's attitude very disapointing, but if that is how it is going to be, then it needs to happen both ways, all the time.


Such a ridiculous post. Reflects poorly on you rather than Webber. :down:


#6403 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:10

You must be joking. Hold the pack up without a team order to do so? If he did that, and Vettel scampered in and out of the pits in the lead, what guarantee would he have that his team mate would reciprocate by letting him through?


Did I say that? :rolleyes:

I was suggesting that the team should have instructed Mark on what they wanted him to do.... they do have a radio, as you may be aware.

At the same time, they would have relayed what was happening to Seb and got Seb's agreement he'd let Mark back through.



#6404 andrewr

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:28

Did I say that? :rolleyes:

I was suggesting that the team should have instructed Mark on what they wanted him to do.... they do have a radio, as you may be aware.

At the same time, they would have relayed what was happening to Seb and got Seb's agreement he'd let Mark back through.

They could have done that, but they didn't. Asking Webber to help one of his main rivals for the WDC would have been a little rich at this stage.

#6405 mymemoryfails

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:36

I think Mark's message has finally gotten across to all. So we should never get a situation like Hungary 2010 agian. Or even Brazil 2011. To hell with team work. Let the drivers suffer it out because enough of this helping Webber stuff only to face his bite in the butt attitude when he is able to lend a helping hand.

I find Webber's attitude very disapointing, but if that is how it is going to be, then it needs to happen both ways, all the time.



And what part of "teamwork" was Monaco 2010 when Vettel's engineer Rocky was urging Seb to " Squeeze him now Squeeze" when Webber was leading and Vettel was 2nd? How was he helping the team by applying pressure in this situation?

In 2012 race do you really think Seb would be generous and hand the lead back if Webber had slowed to allow a 20 second gap?

At no stage does Vettel drive for anyone other than himself. Webber too.

mymemoryfails

Edited by mymemoryfails, 31 May 2012 - 10:37.


#6406 karne

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:03

I will make it crystal clear.

Mark would never back the pack up to help Vettel. That is not who he is. Nor should he be asked to.

Vettel would never back the pack up to help Mark. Nor should he be asked to.

Vettel would never give the place back. Even if he was asked it. But he should not be asked to.

Mark would never give the place back. Nor should he be asked to.


#6407 Smile17

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:16

I will make it crystal clear.

Mark would never back the pack up to help Vettel. That is not who he is. Nor should he be asked to.

Vettel would never back the pack up to help Mark. Nor should he be asked to.

Vettel would never give the place back. Even if he was asked it. But he should not be asked to.

Mark would never give the place back. Nor should he be asked to.


This has happened, no denying. Also.. some times it's better to play the 'team game', no other choice. Webber knows this, it's hard, but this is how it works.

Webber taking the title this year would be a dream. He deserves it.

#6408 Clatter

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:20

This has happened, no denying. Also.. some times it's better to play the 'team game', no other choice. Webber knows this, it's hard, but this is how it works.

Webber taking the title this year would be a dream. He deserves it.


It has? When?

#6409 icecream

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 19:13

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18253820

i actually think it would have been cool to see them play a team strategy, even have vettel come out in front of webber, then do a swap. the reality is that it would have been too risky, and they may indeed have sacrificed the win trying anything 'fancy'.

in any case, all potential situations would have been exhaustively discussed before the race, and the team would have decided then how they would play their hand.

#6410 Mandzipop

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 19:40

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18253820

i actually think it would have been cool to see them play a team strategy, even have vettel come out in front of webber, then do a swap. the reality is that it would have been too risky, and they may indeed have sacrificed the win trying anything 'fancy'.

in any case, all potential situations would have been exhaustively discussed before the race, and the team would have decided then how they would play their hand.


I disagree. Mark doesn't owe Seb any favours and Seb doesn't need favours from Mark. Doing something like that around Monaco when the cars are so close together was always going to be risky. That would also damage Mark's chances of running for the WDC too. Why should he hurt his own chances? As it stands he is 3rd but 3 points off Alonso. Had he have let Seb get in 2nd the'd be 3rd to Alonso but 5 points off Seb in the WDC (who would be leading the championship).

#6411 Paul Prost

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 00:10

I'm enraged that Mark Webber didn't do the 'team thing' by slowing down the pack enough so that Vettel could retain the lead after his pitstop. That way Red Bull could have finished 1-2. What a selfish driver! :drunk:

#6412 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 04:55

In a topsy-turvy year like this, where points in the Constructors are particularly valuable, a 1-2 was better than a 1-4 for the team. That's 6 points more right there.



#6413 lbennie

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:14

In a topsy-turvy year like this, where points in the Constructors are particularly valuable, a 1-2 was better than a 1-4 for the team. That's 6 points more right there.


they are, so why would you demotivate one of your drivers by forcing him to gift points to one of his main championship rivals, all while hes trying to win the monaco gp.

it's a ridiculous notion.



#6414 LoudHoward

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 05:17

Mark was all set to do it until Seb gave him no help whatsoever in Bahrain. Bastard. Tearing the team apart.

#6415 icecream

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 08:03


perhaps if mark had helped, then that favour would be repaid, so it could indeed have been better for his championship.

but when you factor in potentially sacrificing the win, it simply wasn't worth the risk.

#6416 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:21

Does anyone know if the team actually asked Mark to back the pack up for Seb? Because its the teams job to determine the strategy not Marks. The last the thing he would be thinking about around Monaco is ways to help Seb get a better position.

If the team never asked Mark to assist Seb then Mark cant be expected to come up with a strategy all by himself. Some people are condenming Mark for not playing the team game when it was probably never even asked of him.

#6417 Callahan

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:42

I think Mark's message has finally gotten across to all. So we should never get a situation like Hungary 2010 agian. Or even Brazil 2011. To hell with team work. Let the drivers suffer it out because enough of this helping Webber stuff only to face his bite in the butt attitude when he is able to lend a helping hand.

I find Webber's attitude very disapointing, but if that is how it is going to be, then it needs to happen both ways, all the time.

bourbon, I honestly haven't got a clue what your talking about. Mark was very simply saying that playing games at a place like Monaco is an invitation for disaster. Read it again objectively and I'm sure you will see it differently. :confused:

#6418 PNSD

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:27

I dont understand.

Surely the quicker Mark went in the first stint the better it would have been for Seb. Because the front guys would have used their tyres up, leaving Seb on primes to go on... and on... and on. Instead what happened was Mark dictated the pace at the front, slowed massively to save tyres, and the longer they went in the first stint, THE WORSE it was for Seb.

Not even the commentators noticed that. It was clear that the longer the guys went on the options, the worse it was for the guys on primes because it meant they couldn't use their tyres for as long when they had clear air.

So if Mark was driving to get seb in to a better position, he certainly could have done a hell of a better job.

Hence, clearly Mark was racing to win. He wasn't thinking about Seb, why should he? Anyone suggesting Mark raced with intentions to help Sebastian are blind. Mark is in this for the title. He knows it could come down to 1 point again, why would he hand the initiative to his arguably quicker team mate?


#6419 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:05

For technical reasons this thread is closed, please contue the discussion here http://forums.autosp...howtopic=168663