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Summer shutdown - how is it enforced?


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#1 jez33

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:31

Just curious, the mandatory summer shutdown - how exactly is this enforced? What is to stop teams advising their key staff to "work from home" or "work from a non-factory location" ?

Are the big and heavily resourced teams better positioned to exploit any loopholes and get a march on their competitors? Surely a "gentleman's agreement" does not count for much given the fierce competition?

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#2 Dancing_Donkey

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:37

No doubt there are double offices and flexi-factories. Allowing the main factory to remain shutdown - while everyone keeps working...

#3 BRG

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:47

It's enforced in the traditional F1 manner. Everyone observes it except Ferrari.

#4 barteks

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 13:05

I have no idea.

#5 Captain Tightpants

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 13:26

They're probably monitored somehow. The teams know that if they violate the shut-down, the others will react to it and keep them honest.

It's enforced in the traditional F1 manner. Everyone observes it except Ferrari.

Ferrari then complain about it and make themselves out to be the victim.

#6 Villes Gilleneuve

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 17:55

Just curious, the mandatory summer shutdown - how exactly is this enforced?


Easy, most teams are situated in Europe, where F-all gets done in August.

#7 engel

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 18:21

Can you stop a designer from sketching on a napkin ? no
you do block them from the facilities though, no rapid prototyping, no windtunnel, no fab shop, nothing. How? Simple ... all it takes is one family member that had planned to be in a beach somewhere contacting the FIA after their vacation was canceled and you 're up shit creek without a paddle.

#8 Risil

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 18:46

Far as I know this is a FOTA 'gentleman's agreement' sort of rule. Sort of like the testing ban in MotoGP -- Paul Denning was saying the other day that if Suzuki really wanted to give their bike some desperately-needed development, they'd only need to bolt on a bigger fuel tank and it wouldn't be a 'MotoGP bike' anymore, and thus exempt from regulations.

It's in all the teams' interests, ultimately, to observe the rules they themselves framed. At least it is right now.

Edited by Risil, 19 August 2010 - 18:46.


#9 aditya-now

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 19:25

Just curious, the mandatory summer shutdown - how exactly is this enforced? What is to stop teams advising their key staff to "work from home" or "work from a non-factory location" ?

Are the big and heavily resourced teams better positioned to exploit any loopholes and get a march on their competitors? Surely a "gentleman's agreement" does not count for much given the fierce competition?


What with Alonso "thinking about F1 for 10 minutes every day" and Domenicalli calling for staff to enjoy a "working holiday" with some coming up with new ideas when they come back from the break?


#10 aditya-now

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 19:27

InsideFerrari Domenicali: “The brain does not stop working on holiday”



#11 DontPanic

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 22:26

Easy, most teams are situated in Europe, where F-all gets done in August.


Actually, most teams are situated in the UK. You would be dead right if they were in mainland Europe. I worked for several years in a number of EU countries whereby everyone really does take 4 weeks holiday at the same time, (particularly in the Netherlands). In the UK, this is not the same.



#12 kenny

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 13:06

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/86015

Rosberg

...but I know that everyone at the factory has been working hard since the shutdown...


:confused:

#13 Louis Mr. F1

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 13:09

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/86015

Rosberg


:confused:


I thought the same thing too when I read that comment, very confusing - what kind of shut down are we talking about then?
maybe only the race mechanics/drivers are taking a break but not the factory workers.


#14 Cargo

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 13:48

If it is just a "gentleman's agreement" between the teams, then I'd trust all the teams except Ferrari. :|

But I don't believe there's that level of trust among everyone - there must be some way the "break" is policed. What is it? Some of the journalists who post on here should know ...

#15 engel

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 13:56

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/86015

Rosberg


:confused:



He just means after the shutdown was over ... McLaren and Mercedes shut down on Aug 2nd (Midnight after the race, means the factories reopened and have been operational since the morning of Aug 16th)

Just in case anybody cares, HRT reopened 2 days ago, Virgin will reopen tomorrow, Ferrari and Lotus Sunday and pretty much everybody else Monday

Edited by engel, 20 August 2010 - 13:57.


#16 korzeniow

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 07:03

Since summer break was introduced by FOTA, what about teams that left the association? Who controlls that factories aren't being used anyway?

#17 Cavani

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Posted 06 August 2012 - 07:12

its the mighty FIA that controls the whole thing of shutting down

#18 Dolph

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 21:04

They're probably monitored somehow. The teams know that if they violate the shut-down, the others will react to it and keep them honest.

Ferrari then complain about it and make themselves out to be the victim.


Aren't the people monitoring it in violation of the same agreement?

#19 itsademo

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 21:40

its the teams who have the shut down not the FIA.

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#20 as65p

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 21:56

Folks, the thread topic isn't "Anyone who hates Ferrari make a silly comment".

Although that would probably make for a fun thread, mods allowing. :D

#21 itsademo

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 22:06

Folks, the thread topic isn't "Anyone who hates Ferrari make a silly comment".

Although that would probably make for a fun thread, mods allowing. :D

A couple of New Jersey hunters are out in the woods when one of them falls to the ground.
He doesn't seem to be breathing, his eyes are rolled back in his head.
The other guy whips out his cell phone and calls the emergency services.
He gasps to the operator: "My friend is dead! What can I do?"
The operator, in a calm soothing voice, says: "Just take it easy. I can help. First, let's make sure he's dead."
There is a silence....
then a shot is heard!
The guy's voice comes back on the line. He says: "OK, now what?"

ok its not silly but will funny do?

or of course you could always ask

why does manslaughter always include laughter?

Edited by itsademo, 09 August 2012 - 22:12.


#22 as65p

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 22:23

A couple of New Jersey hunters are out in the woods when one of them falls to the ground.
He doesn't seem to be breathing, his eyes are rolled back in his head.
The other guy whips out his cell phone and calls the emergency services.
He gasps to the operator: "My friend is dead! What can I do?"
The operator, in a calm soothing voice, says: "Just take it easy. I can help. First, let's make sure he's dead."
There is a silence....
then a shot is heard!
The guy's voice comes back on the line. He says: "OK, now what?"

ok its not silly but will funny do?

or of course you could always ask

why does manslaughter always include laughter?


Don't remember where, but accidentically I had already heard this 'joke' during the last two weeks, presumably somewhere on TV. Not your fault, obviously. :D

An no, funny won't do, it has to be silly. Just go by the "Ferrari is evil" posts ealier in the thread, that should get you on course nicely.  ;)

#23 swerved

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 22:44

A couple of New Jersey hunters are out in the woods when one of them falls to the ground.
He doesn't seem to be breathing, his eyes are rolled back in his head.
The other guy whips out his cell phone and calls the emergency services.
He gasps to the operator: "My friend is dead! What can I do?"
The operator, in a calm soothing voice, says: "Just take it easy. I can help. First, let's make sure he's dead."
There is a silence....
then a shot is heard!
The guy's voice comes back on the line. He says: "OK, now what?"

ok its not silly but will funny do?

or of course you could always ask

why does manslaughter always include laughter?


:lol:

Probably the same reason Therapist always includes The Rapist.


#24 ForzaGTR

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 23:33

I can't imagine a team like Ferrari or Mclaren that have a staff in the hundreds would risk opening up inside a curfew, the risk for a leak is too big in this day and age. A basic administrator has only got to let slip to a friend in a pub that they were working on XYZ and then that ends up on twitter...

#25 teejay

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 00:25

I was pretty sure the FIA monitor all activity at the factories etc.

#26 pingu666

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 01:37

i think theres a small number of staff who work through the break, people who arrange travel for example. they get there break in nov/dec i guess


#27 Watkins74

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:58

I think some people are confused about the break. The Agreement is that every team shuts down for 14 straight days during the 4 week break between races. I'm not positive but 98% sure the teams can pick those 14 days. So not everyone will be shut down for the same dates.

Here is an article focused on McLaren but briefly discusses the agreement.

http://www.guardian....n-f1-car-plants

#28 BigCHrome

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 03:46

I'm surprised that so many people are saying that Ferrari won't follow it but nobody has mentioned Red Bull.

Anyway, there is nothing stopping the workers to work from home but they won't have access to factory equipment like wind tunnels and CFD which severely limits their actual output. It's unlikely that someone will find .5s by daydreaming at home.

#29 lbennie

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:25

I'm surprised that so many people are saying that Ferrari won't follow it but nobody has mentioned Red Bull.


what about mclaren?



#30 packapoo

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:51


what about mclaren?
[/quote]

I'll play.
What about them?

#31 teejay

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:59

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat about meeeeeeeeeeeeee

it isnt fair!

#32 lbennie

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 05:07

lol of course mclaren would never cheat.

bless their cotton socks.


#33 Sakae

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:27

Just curious, the mandatory summer shutdown - how exactly is this enforced? What is to stop teams advising their key staff to "work from home" or "work from a non-factory location" ?

Are the big and heavily resourced teams better positioned to exploit any loopholes and get a march on their competitors? Surely a "gentleman's agreement" does not count for much given the fierce competition?

Ever heard of underground economy? in Southern parts of Europe it's quite popular. :D

#34 kosmos

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:15

The factories shutdown, in Ferrari, Red Bull and Mclaren's case, they move all the work to their secret batcave in Afghanistan.

#35 rwamnep

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:05

I think the agreement says "factories are to close for a 14 day period with the exception of essential areas"
The departments not included are site security, PR and logistics.
Should a significant crash of happened to a team in Hungary then a small crew is allowed to operate to rebuild the car.


#36 Pharazon

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:26

let's all be amazed when in a few days Red Bull are a second faster thaan everyone again

#37 as65p

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:42

let's all be amazed when in a few days Red Bull are a second faster thaan everyone again


That's not enough. The proper way is to bitch, squirm, cry foul and demand exclusion from the championship.

#38 sharo

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:19

That's not enough. The proper way is to bitch, squirm, cry foul and demand exclusion from the championship.

Modern times ... you know :)

#39 Jon83

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:33

what about mclaren?


Shoosh

McLaren never break the rules!



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#40 pRy

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:38

I wonder if the FIA do spot audits where they can turn up randomly at a factory and have to be shown around?

#41 velgajski1

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:51

Since summer break was introduced by FOTA, what about teams that left the association? Who controlls that factories aren't being used anyway?


I think this isn't a rule, more of an agreement. I mean, guys working at those factories do deserve summer break, so smartest way to do it is to simply predetermine 2 weeks when there's no races anyway.

#42 Clatter

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:55

I wonder if the FIA do spot audits where they can turn up randomly at a factory and have to be shown around?


But there won't be anyone there. ;)

#43 Brandz07

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:49

Newey just moves his drawing kit home and carries on presumably :lol:

#44 pRy

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 12:51

But there won't be anyone there.;)


There will in some cases. McLaren HQ is still open and staffed, just no F1 work is taking place.

#45 packapoo

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 01:46

I really struggle to believe that, if a team wished to continue development during the close down, 'cheat' in other words, they could not do just that away from all the do gooders and sticky beaks.

I could even see the scenario where Team 'X' fronts the very next GP with a super secret but extremely effective modification, wins the race, fingers point....Charlie says "all good. It's legal", couple more wins - suddenly it's banned and all the while everyone is still scratching themselves wondering where did that come from..... not having a clue that the bastards must have cheated.?

#46 Sakae

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:17

Newey just moves his drawing kit home and carries on presumably :lol:

House basement ideas are sometimes the very best ones.

#47 Amphicar

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 11:48

In 2009 and 2010, as part of National Motorsport Week, the Renault F1 team held 3 open days at its Enstone base during the summer shut-down. For a relatively small donation to charity, fans were able to have a guided tour of the factory, try their hand at changing wheels on an F1 car and speak to team members. As well as being excellent PR it also demonstrated that no work was taking place at the factory. Perhaps all the teams should be required to hold open days during the summer closure period?

#48 Clatter

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:04

In 2009 and 2010, as part of National Motorsport Week, the Renault F1 team held 3 open days at its Enstone base during the summer shut-down. For a relatively small donation to charity, fans were able to have a guided tour of the factory, try their hand at changing wheels on an F1 car and speak to team members. As well as being excellent PR it also demonstrated that no work was taking place at the factory. Perhaps all the teams should be required to hold open days during the summer closure period?


That means someone has to miss out on their holiday to man the event.


#49 Amphicar

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 12:36

That means someone has to miss out on their holiday to man the event.

Hardly an insuperable problem - as the Renault team demonstrated.

#50 Sakae

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 13:11

I would like to visit Brackley, and ask Michael WTH happened in Hungary? I think he would appreciate my inquisitiveness. :D