32 replies to this topic

[Ed Straker]

Hi,I am researching the fastest race ever,the 1971 Italian Grand Prix at Monza this is all for a 1971.If at all possible I would love to hear accounts of those that were there on that great day and to ask kindly for any photos that you may have to share.

For me this period of Grand Prix racing was golden,I know the year after 'the authorities' stuck in the chicanes to slow the cars down,but it has been widely publicized that this killed the majic of Monza,what are your thoughts.

The race was won by Peter Gethin at an average speed of something like 150mph!!!,I would have loved to have witnessed this race but alas I was only a six year old kid.

[Giraffe]

By giraffe138 at 2010-02-20

[Tim Murray]

Hi,I am researching the fastest race ever,the 1971 Italian Grand Prix at Monza ...

It was never the fastest race ever. For many years it was the fastest F1 race ever, but it lost this distinction to the 2003 Italian GP. It is now fifth on the all-time F1 list:

http://www.statsf1.c...nne/leplus.aspx

[Bauble]

It was never the fastest race ever. For many years it was the fastest F1 race ever, but it lost this distinction to the 2003 Italian GP. It is now fifth on the all-time F1 list:

http://www.statsf1.c...nne/leplus.aspx

Yes,
As a long time BRM fan I have always relished the thought that the marque held that particular record for 33 years, and not only the fastest but also the second fastest, with Pedro Rodrigeuz holding the record with his win at Spa in 1970 before being beaten by Peter Gethin at Monza. BRM also are still high in the list of all time GP winners with 17 victories!
You may query that statistic, but I only include makes that built the chassis and engine themselves, and on that basis McLaren are still without a single win.

You have to take your victories where you can!!!!

Bauble.

[kayemod]

Peter Gethin was one of my favourites, I was thrilled when he won at Monza, and you can find the full Autosport race report, six whole pages by Patrick McNally, in the current 60th anniversary issue of the magazine out today, get your copy while stocks last.

[Lemnpiper]

Any Idea why 1960 had so many fast races for it's era . i see at least 3 of those races in the top 133 , while outside of the Indy 500s few F1 graded races then seem to appear.


Paul

[Tim Murray]

1960 was the last year of the 2.5 litre F1 - the 1.5 litre cars that came after were slower on the really quick tracks. The 1960 Italian GP used the banked circuit for the first time since 1956 (and this circuit was not used again for the GP after 1961). They hadn't been to Spa since 1958, and the 1959 French GP was held in very hot conditions, which probably didn't help towards a high average speed.

Edited by Tim Murray, 26 August 2010 - 19:52.

[Twin Window]

Didn't the 1973 Spa 1000 kms hold the record for some time as being the fastest-ever race held on a road course?

[D-Type]

Which rather begs the question "Was Avus a road course or a track?"

[Twin Window]

Actually, I might have been thinking of an individual lap - Pesca at circa 163 mph...

[mfd]

Actually, I might have been thinking of an individual lap - Pesca at circa 163 mph...

3rd place Matra-Simca MS670B Henri Pescarolo (F) Fastest Lap 3:13.400 262.461 km/h but the pole lap had Ickx / Redman Ferrari 312 on 3:12.700

Edited by mfd, 27 August 2010 - 11:35.

[Bauble]

Which rather begs the question "Was Avus a road course or a track?"

Avus consisted to two sides of dual carriageway, joined by a hairpin at one end and a steeply banked corner at the other, was this a road course? Technically yes (probably) but much like a 'track' in character.

Edited by Bauble, 27 August 2010 - 13:18.

[Tomas Karlsson]

I was 14 years old and watched the televised race all alone in our livingroom. I will probably never forget it and unfortunately, I have never seen a race that exciting since then. It must be the F1 WC race with the most leader changes too!?
I am of course biased, but the moral victor was Ronnie Peterson. He was in command and was superb through the Parabolica, lap after lap. But for that last time...
It would have been interesting if somebody had filmed me during that race. I have a vague memory of me jumping up and down during the last laps. And shouting at Bonnier to get out of the way. Now when I see the last lap on Youtube, I can see that the Swedish veteran was far ahead of the crazy bunch that braked for the last corner.

[Bloggsworth]

Which rather begs the question "Was Avus a road course or a track?"

I'll grant Avus road course status if you can find me a picture of somebody ambling round the banking in an Austin Cambridge...

[ErinKondratieff]

For a driver's eye view, read Howden Ganley's description of the race in Pages 64-66 of Eoin Young's book "Classic Racers "
or page 89 of Tim Nevinson's book "The Drivers".

[wenoopy]

Which rather begs the question "Was Avus a road course or a track?"

Since the bricked banking was not part of the dual-carriageway road, I wouldn't regard it as a road course. Hybrid, perhaps, at best. The original track was built as a dual-purpose road/track, and the later (1937?) high banking was off to one side of the line of the road.

[taylov]

Since the bricked banking was not part of the dual-carriageway road, I wouldn't regard it as a road course. Hybrid, perhaps, at best. The original track was built as a dual-purpose road/track, and the later (1937?) high banking was off to one side of the line of the road.

Once the banking was removed, potential lap times dropped (but not by a lot). The fastest races were the Interserie and German Sportscar Championship events in the 1980s on a 8km version of the road track.

The fastest race that I can find was the 1983 DRM on 1/5/83 which was dominated by the then-new Porsche 956's. Bob Wollek winning at an average of 232.542 km/h and a fastest lap going to Volkert Merl at 239 km/h (148.5 in old money).

Tony

Edited by taylov, 28 August 2010 - 08:12.

[wenoopy]

I'll grant Avus road course status if you can find me a picture of somebody ambling round the banking in an Austin Cambridge...

Would you accept a Trabi?

[mfd]

Would you accept a Trabi?

Perhaps a special award for going off topic?

[David McKinney]

There seems to be more of that than usual these days - no offence to wenoopy

I blame leakage from the Blood Pressure thread

[kayemod]

I blame leakage from the Blood Pressure thread

Haemorrhage.

[wenoopy]

A classic demonstration of Parkinson's Thermodynamic Law of Committees. We last saw the topic about 23 hours ago!

[mfd]

We last saw the topic about 23 hours ago!

So a daily award then...

[wenoopy]

OK, Let's get this show back on the rails again.

Automobile Year # 19 had its usual lap chart for the 1971 Italian GP. It bears some resemblance to a seismograph trace for multiple earthquakes. I counted about 35 changes of the lead, but that represents the Start/Finish line only; what was going on around the rest of the lap? It was Gethin's second only race for BRM, and he scored points only once more for BRM.

The preceding 3 Italian GP's were similar races - in 1968-69-70 there were 16,15, and 29 changes of lead by my count. Have we possibly lost something in Formula 1 over the last 40 or so years?

[mfd]

It was Gethin's second only race for BRM, and he scored points only once more for BRM...
...Have we possibly lost something in Formula 1 over the last 40 or so years?

He was also credited the win for the Victory race at Brands. The slipstreaming battles at Monza in those days were caused by a lack of aero efficiency. Many teams removed or trimmed their wings to the the minimum, which you can see if you compare the Austrian GP P160 to the Italian version of the car.
Be interesting to see one of today's F1 cars running like that...well maybe

[Tony Matthews]

Haemorrhage.

Clot!

[Bauble]

Clot!

Now that really is nostalgic.

[kayemod]

Now that really is nostalgic.

Nostalgic?

I'd call it a bleeding liberty!

[Graham Clayton]

I have read reports that towards the end of Saturday practice, cars would slow down on the back straight, and the drivers would wait for another car to pass them. They would then tuck in behind and gain speed from the drafting, thus making their lap faster. Apparently Chris Amon used the slipstream from Tim Schenken's Brabham to set the fastest lap and gain pole position. 

[Doug Nye]

Absolutely standard practice on any slipstreaming venue. Unless the 'tow car' driver was himself going for a time whenever they spotted a rival latching on to their slipstream they would frequently back off or move far off-line to spoil the tow. Cat and mouse.  The last five to ten minutes of Monza practice/qualifying was always riveting...without artifice to make it so...

 

DCN

[Gary C]

Indeed.

[D-Type]

I rember Jenks explaining that the trick was to use the slipstream to accelerate up to a higher speed than could be achieved unaided.  Having done this the car behind would be going faster than his 'tow' and would have to pull out of the slipstream at some stage in order to get a clear run into the next corner.  As the timing line was generally not on the longest straight, the qualifier had to judge crossing the timing line so that half a lap later he caught up with his 'tow' at exactly the right point on the straight.

[nmansellfan]

Were there any speed traps set up at Monza for the '71 GP?  The quickest guys must have doing north of 200mph / 322kmh in a tow.

Edited by nmansellfan, 16 March 2014 - 18:48.